Hostages

[TakeMe2Insanity]

This is running on Al Jazeera and others - apparently Israel refused to take back two hostages.

https://english.alarabiya.net/amp/News/middle-east/2023/10/21/Hamas-says-intended-to-release-two-hostages-but-Israel-refused-to-receive-them

And I'm glad the image has now been removed from social media. It was posted by her captors and certainly not with the permission of her family. I wish I hadn't seen it.

Update. I know Biden said he has been really trying and the fact that there are also American hostages I do feel inclined to believe that is true. This was the latest update from Qatar

A Qatari foreign ministry spokesperson has urged Israel and Hamas to reach an agreement on releasing hostages held in Gaza, warning that the situation in the besieged enclave was worsening every day.
Speaking at a news conference in Doha, Majed bin Mohammed Al-Ansari said the “deteriorating” situation in Gaza was hampering mediation efforts, AFP reported.
We believe there is no other chance for both sides other than for this mediation to take place and to reach a situation where we can see a glimmer of hope in this terrible crisis.

Because most of them were arrested for committing crimes of some sort, unlike the hostages who were just quietly at home?

I definitely think people should go through due process and be treated decently while in custody and Israel has to answer in that regard but let's not pretend that the two situations are exactly comparable.

Today I saw somebody talking about a 13 year old "held hostage" by Israel and it turned out to be someone who'd gone to jail for stabbing a woman as she walked her kids to school.

And according to Al Jazeera, hardly pro Israeli, it's nowhere near 10,000. The article is dated 8 October.

It is true sadly that a fair few child prisoners have stories like that one. It isn't surprising considering the situation but these children have often seriously hurt people. In Israel daily attacks are very common and children are often used because people are less suspicious of them. Also Hamas and co can start shouting about a child getting arrested or shot. You often see videos online or on Aljazeera show a person getting shot or arrested. It all looks horrific and then later the full unedited video makes its way onto social media or a news network. This shows the person running up to a stranger and stabbings them first or similar. Hence why the police/soldiers arrested or shot to neutralise the person. People don't tend to bother to repost the unedited version once they realise the first is properganda though. Doesn't suit the narrative they like.

The minors detained in prison without charge or trial
They should definitely be released

Does it really matter whether they are 5k or 10k ? They’re people and the end of the day that habs been arrested despite they’ve not done anything illegal and many have been tortured. Kids shouldn’t be arrested and kept far from their families just because they are Palestinians

Yes agree with you. Especially if they are not being detain because of social service type safeguarding fears in a suitable place. As in because it is felt they are radicalise my family etc and are being held in a childrens unit for own safety. I would however like to know how old these children are, how many are for example under 16 etc. Rather than the western idea of childhood starts at 18. I do know there are children being held under 16 but would be interested in finding out more about numbers and ages. Does anyone have this information?

Does it really matter whether they are 5k or 10k ? They’re people and the end of the day that habs been arrested despite they’ve not done anything illegal and many have been tortured. Kids shouldn’t be arrested and kept far from their families just because they are Palestinians

When the figure mentioned is nearly double the real one, yes. I'm sure you'd correct someone who said Hamas were holding 500 hostages.

I've said upthread that I agree that nobody should be held without trial or due process.

www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjX7-_dxMWCAxXUU0EAHdqmDm4QFnoECBUQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.aljazeera.com%2Ffeatures%2F2023%2F10%2F21%2Fnumber-of-palestinian-prisoners-in-israel-doubles-to-10000-in-two-weeks&usg=AOvVaw0KyXSsgS3EYAbFRhRieqPA&opi=89978449

@StarbucksSmarterSister in case you miss it. Still to me they’re people who shouldn’t be hold hostage

Child criminals are always a difficult issue. In England age 10 is the age of criminal responsibility so some criminals use under 10s for things. It is even worse in countries where you have cubs of the caliphate taught from a very young age to kill. I watched a documentary on youtube recently of two little yazidi boys aged 2 and 4 who were now free back with the family and grandparents but had been with their mother taken by ISIS. She was sold to 13 men over the ISIS years and the boys went with her each time. Particularly the older boy had been taken each day by the men and indoctrinated. It was a very kind portrayal of a terrible situation - mother very traumatised, grandmother doing her best, local children seeing this poor violent 4 year old as some kind of dreadful thing as he was constantly fighting, talking about enjoying slitting the throats of dogs and all the dreadful things ISIS had taught him but of course he was completely innocent and there was hope as by the end of the film he was cooking with his granny and perhaps recovering back to normality again in his yazidi family. There will always be hope.

There is a lot of comparison betrween Israel and Palestinians which is unfair and not a fair comparison eg completely innocent child hostages seized in the Hamas raid v. Palestinians imprisoned for criminal offences.

No news of any hostages being found/rescued from beneath Al Shifa hospital

Tho' there's been plenty of time to move them over the last few days

I just don't get how they think they can get them out alive if still hostages there

Surely the tunnels will all be packed with explosives and it the IDF get ti close they will suicide bomb themselves and the hostages. It isn't like we don't know they often have men and willing to blow themselves up for the cause.

Last night I was reading someone in Israel government has said they have been given to real proof that most the hostages are still alive

Sorry last post should say no real proof most are still alive

That's a big shame isn't it - was just about to say well that's good news that they're alive

Also agree any release of hostages if found would be far from straightforward

@Trulywonderful
https://defenceforchildren.org/hrc53-side-event-childhood-in-captivity-palestinian-children-arbitrarily-detained-in-israeli-prisons/

@Xenia
Despite the fact that international norms reaffirm that civilians, especially children, generally should not be brought before military courts, Israel remains the only country in the world to automatically and systematically prosecute children in military courts.

@Trulywonderful there is a Israeli human rights organisation that does amazing work on highlighting the injustices the minors and others held without charge or trial
They also update numbers regularly
It's called bt'selem

Thank you

Qatari mediators were on Wednesday seeking to negotiate a deal between Hamas and Israel that includes the release of about 50 civilian hostages from Gaza in exchange for a three-day ceasefire, an official briefed on the negotiations told Reuters.
The deal would also involve Israel releasing some Palestinian women and children from Israeli jails and increase the amount of humanitarian aid allowed into Gaza.
Hamas has to date released four of the estimated 240 hostages seized during its murderous rampage inside Israel’s borders on 7 October.
The officials told Reuters the deal has been coordinated with the US, and Hamas has agreed to the general outline, but Israel has not.
The Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, has said on multiple occasions that there can be no ceasefire until all the hostages are released. Family and friends of the hostages are taking part in a five-day march from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. They say Israel’s government has not done enough to secure the release of their loved ones

So Qatar is saying the negotiations which included the US was a release of 50 hostages in exchange for a 3 day pause in fighting with some women and children released from Israeli prison including allowing in more much needed aid

Netanyahu has not agreed
I know everyone has their own opinions on it which is fair enough but I think it's such a shame. 50 hostages could have been returned to their families who right now risk dying
I feel it could have opened up a door for more hostages being released if it worked

The families of the hostages feel like the government is not doing enough but I haven't seen anything else reported.
Does anyone here know what they propose the government should do to secure the release?

Does anyone here know what they propose the government should do to secure the release?

I was about to ask the same thing. I understand they want all released, but if 50 are on offer they should try and do what they can to enable at least a partial release. I don't think they'll agree to releasing prisoners though, I believe that has happened before but it's a risky thing to agree to. A temporary ceasefire and release of some hostages would be a start.

It says women and children. Although not specified in this update a previous update I believe did mention those held without charge or trial

It does seem like an impossible situation. Netanyahu seems firm on its either all hostages or then no negotiation
But is that not a risky gamble to take?