What does 'ceasing responsibility for life' mean?

[flufferknutter]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12653619/Israel-reveals-plans-three-phase-war-Gaza-starting-airstrikes-ground-manoeuvres-moving-eradicate-pockets-resistance-ceasing-Israels-responsibility-life-Gaza-Strip.html

I'm sorry for the DM link. I want to know what is meant by Israel 'ceasing responsibility for life' means though. I don't understand.

I think it's helpful that the US moved two carrier battle groups to the region. An example of how having bigger guns than the other side may be able to preserve the peace.

Well what do you expect them to say? “Israel has the right to defend itself SO bomb away and call the civilian casualties collateral damage?”

To the extent that the bombs are dropped on legitimate Hamas targets, that would make sense, yes.

I genuinely am not sure what you’re getting at here.

I'm not grumbling about other people being critical. I am pointing out that it's not constructive. People being critical of Israel gives those people an outlet for their anger in a harmless way. But it doesn't diminish loss of life in Gaza. If that's the real goal, maybe there are other things. Those other things should take into account the reality of the arms imbalance.

Blockade started in 2005 in conjunction with the military withdrawal.

The story of the blockade since 2007 and the supply of services to Gaza is complicated. I know it would suit the narrative if it were simply "Israel bad, Palestinians good" but that's now how things go.

Again the reverse is also true - it’s not Israel good, Palestine bad.
The blockade itself is probably necessary but cutting of supplies to the people locked in is pretty grim.

After the blockade of 2007, diesel fuel was smuggled from Egypt, then in 2013 Egypt shut down the smuggling tunnels. The fuel was then supplied from Qatar and Turkey.

In 2017 power lines from Egypt were shutdown. At that time the only electricity to Gaza was provided from the Israel Electric Corporation. Then at some unspecified time later Israel allowed fuel to be delivered again

Why did the fuel have to be smuggled in?

Doesn’t sound like Israel had to supply fuel then, they shut down the supplies from the other countries you mentioned?

Abbas accepted it verbally but when he asked to be sent the written documents, Olmert tried to pressure him into signing a carte Blanche- an agreement he’d not even gotten a copy of. So Abbas said sorry, I can’t sign a peace agreement that I haven’t even got a copy of.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/abbas-admits-he-rejected-2008-peace-offer-from-olmert/

“A 2004 opinion of the International Court of Justice included the Gaza Strip as part of the Occupied Palestinian Territory. Israel voted for a disengagement plan in 2005. Both Israel and Egypt also imposed a temporary land, air, and sea blockade from 2005 to 2006.

A permanent Gaza Strip blockade was imposed by Israel and Egypt beginning in 2007 following the completion of the Israeli disengagement plan and when Hamas took control of the area during the Battle of Gaza and replaced the Palestinian nationalist and social democratic political party Fatah and other Palestinian Authority officials with its members.”
https://www.profolus.com/topics/gaza-strip-blockade-explained/

Somewhat relevant to the title of this thread is the fact that throughout the blockade and up until this month, Israel still provided electricity (from the IEC) and diesel fuel for Gaza's power station.

What I understand the answer to the question in the title of the thread is that going forward, when the war with Hamas is finished, the residents of Gaza will have to get their electricity and diesel fuel from somewhere else - it will no longer be supplied by Israel. Also, presumably, water.

What I understand the answer to the question in the title of the thread is that going forward, when the war with Hamas is finished, the residents of Gaza will have to get their electricity and diesel fuel from somewhere else - it will no longer be supplied by Israel. Also, presumably, water

Do you have any sense of how that would work re the blockade? You said Fuel was smuggled in originally would that have to resume or would an above board arrangement from another supplier (assuming one could be found) be allowed?

Lucky them. Meanwhile, in real time it’s being reported that

1: there are tens of thousands of people in Gaza buried under rubble. The stench of rotting bodies is becoming unbearable, as are the amount of flies now all over the city.
2: 90% of flushing toilets don’t work so people are queuing 4-5 hours to go to the loo or having to go where they can. Toilet paper and feminine hygiene products are scare.

im ashamed to live in a world where any human thinks this is acceptable, but congrats on Israel’s successful strategy @mushti.

I don't know. I don't think anyone in Israel (or anywhere else) knows what kind of civil administration will exist in future.

There are two countries that border Gaza, and Israel is just one of them. Egypt has equally been willing to blockade the territory in agreement with Israel because Egypt doesn't want to deal with Hamas either.

It may be that Israel allows Egypt the option to deliver power and water. Egypt will probably say no, and the people who live in Gaza will go without, permanently.

What a charming government and adherents we are told we are supporting.

In fact, these posts are so brazenly callous that I have to wonder if they’re actually there to inspire and promote anti-Zionism. I know Jewish people who would never agree with them. So I won’t engage any further.

It may be that Israel allows Egypt the option to deliver power and water. Egypt will probably say no, and the people who live in Gaza will go without, permanently

Mmmmm. And you’re still surprised at the “Israel has a right to defends itself BUT..” line?

What purpose is this going to serve? Is it a plan to hobble Hamas?

I think it’s envisaged in a post-Hamas world. I don’t have any more information on how that will be enforced than you do.

Purpose: I think the purpose is to avoid Israel having to give the necessities of life to people who allow an organization to flourish in their midst that act as Hamas did on October 7. “Let someone else provide for them. We’re done.”

It's really interesting that you say that. It's rather like you're thinking that Jews are only ok as long as they're meek and mild. That there's the right kind of Jew, and the wrong kind. One kind deserves a state, and the other kind doesn't.

Purpose: I think the purpose is to avoid Israel having to give the necessities of life to people who allow an organization to flourish in their midst that act as Hamas did on October 7. “Let someone else provide for them. We’re done.”

I’m not being funny but if the Palestinians (civilians I mean) are locked into an environment they can’t leave with no basics like water or power then that’s every bit as bad as what Hamas did. Particularly if Israel can’t give a better reason for it than spite.

They can leave. They just can't leave into Israel. Or any other Arab country that would take refugees. Egypt could allow them to leave into Egypt, but won't. Or, they can stay. But without Israeli water, electricity and fuel, they'll have to find those things from somewhere else.

I don't think your characterization as spite is accurate. Israel has been responsible for Gaza since 1967. I think after October 7 it has finally had enough.

The Israeli government and Hamas are as bad as each other, in my eyes. Netanyahu can hide behind the fact he's part of a 'legitimate government'. That's why so many see Hamas' attack as bad, and the siege as justified, when both are horrifying. The IDF are no better than Hamas in a lot of their actions, both deserve condemnation.

Who:

Netanyahu?

The Israeli Government?

The IDF?

The State of Israel?

The Jews who don't share your opinions?

Or all Jews?

Who exactly do you see as equally bad as Hamas? You're not very clear in your post.

They can leave. They just can't leave into Israel. Or any other Arab country that would take refugees. Egypt could allow them to leave into Egypt, but won't. Or, they can stay.

Where would they go though? Its a large number of people given that if Gaza is rendered literally inhabitable they will all have to leave.

But without Israeli water, electricity and fuel, they'll have to find those things from somewhere else.

Well they won’t be able to pull it out of the sky will they? Given a post-Hamas Gaza is (unfortunately) unlikely to be the post - war scenario if they (Hamas) do manage it this will just make the Palestinians more dependent on them surely?

I don't think your characterization as spite is accurate. Israel has been responsible for Gaza since 1967. I think after October 7 it has finally had enough

If Israel was responsible for Gaza (or the West Bank for that matter) from 1967 then that was their own choice. I mean they didn’t have it handed to them under protest did they?

Who:

Netanyahu?

The Israeli Government?

The IDF?

The State of Israel?

The Jews who don't share your opinions?

Or all Jews?

Who exactly do you see as equally bad as Hamas? You're not very clear in your post

They said the Israeli Government. They literally said that in their post.

I think my first sentence saying "the Israeli government and Hamas are as bad as each other" is very clear. If you can't see that, I'm not sure what to suggest.

Nice reach, though. I didn't mention Jews, as I've said in many posts, I don't judge on religion and not all of the IDF are even Jewish. I'm afraid that doesn't work on me, I care not a jot which religion people choose to follow.

Where would they go though? Its a large number of people given that if Gaza is rendered literally inhabitable they will all have to leave.

From an Israeli perspective, they can stay or go, who cares?

But without Israeli water, electricity and fuel, they'll have to find those things from somewhere else.

Yep. Again, who cares? Hopefully they have an answer as carefully prepared as the attacks of October 7 were.

If Israel was responsible for Gaza (or the West Bank for that matter) from 1967 then that was their own choice. I mean they didn’t have it handed to them under protest did they?

You can make that argument (although I'm not sure it was exactly a free choice) - but if it was Israel's choice, its one it can exercise now.

From the context it looks like they want to no longer be responsible for providing Gaza with water and electricity etc (they do this for free). Understandable really considering the (1) the murder and kidnapping of 1600 Israeli civilians and (2) that repeated assistance has been given to enable Gaza to provide it’s own water and electricity but they have polluted the aquifer and dug up water pipes to make rockets (and made a film about it too).

The Israeli government changes every couple of years.

Will a change of administration make you alter your moral equivalencing? My suspicion is that it's not actually the choice of Government or the person who leads it that you actualy object to.