To think Hamas have given Israel the excuse they were looking for?

[MistyMooPup]

Not all of Israel. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said he will obliterate Hamas. But undoubtedly hundred if not thousands of civilians will now be killed.

I’m not sure what Hamas thought the end game if this would be? What have the Iranians convinced them of? This was a sophisticated operation, outside help was given for definite.

I’m not sure it’s possible to rationalise with dehumanised terrorists, neither am I sure what the end game will be, but I just can’t understand what Hamas expected if not a total war/strikes from Israel in retaliation.

Yes, I'd like a response to that as well 🤔

How should a government respond when their citizens are murdered in their beds by terrorists?

They should capture the people who did it. They shouldn't murder 100 children a day. They shouldn't deprive 1.1million children of basic nessecities. It's mad that this needs explaining. Imagine in 2023 having to explain to people why purposefully depriving 1.1 million children food and water is wrong. It's mind boggling.

If you know the names and have pictures of Hamas terrorists living amongst the citizens of Gaza why on earth are you not sharing this information with the relevant authorities.
Please do so urgently.

I am responding by C & P from another thread.

If my next-door-neighbour has a family member who has threatened to do me serious harm, then I'll do everything I can to stop that. I would most certainly try to 'control' them for my own self-preservation.

I would put up huge fences, buy guard dogs, electrify the fence, etc etc.
If the rest of the family can't stop this person, and allow him to hide in their house and are scared of them as well, then that isn't my problem. They share the responsibility for his bad behaviour.

If the water pipes to their house go under my land and they do criminal damage to my property, terrorize my kids, kidnap my dog, and trash my car, then you're damn right I'll turn the stopcock off.

That's 'proportionate' to me.

What you need to ask yourself is why Gaza doesn't have it's own water supply? Why can't it feed itself? Why doesn't it adopt a Family Planning Programme to curb a population that it can't look after properly?

Some facts (from 2021) ;

2014-2020, U.N. agencies spent nearly $4.5 billion in Gaza, including $600 million in 2020 alone

Qatar has provided $1.3 billion in aid to Gaza since 2012 for construction, health services and agriculture. That includes $360 million pledged in January for 2021 and another $500 million pledged for reconstruction after the war in May. Qatar’s aid also goes to needy families and to help pay Hamas government salaries.

Egypt pledged $500 million in aid after the May war, but it’s unclear how much has materialized. It sent construction crews to clear rubble over the summer.

— Germany and other European countries will spend nearly 70 million euros ($80 million) on water projects in Gaza this year, in addition to their contributions to UNRWA.

— The U.S. has spent at least $5.5 million in Gaza this year on cash assistance and health care, in addition to contributing $90 million to UNRWA operations in Gaza

— Israel is granting work permits to 10,000 Gazans who undergo security vetting, providing a crucial source of income for families with no known connection to Hamas.

So painting Gaza as 'hard done by' seems a little out of place IMO.

So Betty let's imagine that your neighbours were like that

Because ten years ago you had accidentally shot one of their children and had blockaded their home so their children couldn't get to school and they couldn't work

And you did that After they had left your friend brain damaged in an assault

Because 30 years before that they were living in your house and you just moved them on when you wanted the bigger home

It's a cycle of violence that is breeding more violence . Each tit for tat response creates more hatred and fear and more terrorists

The Hamas leaders are not even in Palestine

I think that my post has been moved on from being an allegory into the realms of fantasy.

Thank you @SnowflakeCity .

I think I'm going to bow out of these threads , because the sympathisers of Israeli's extremely right wing government are beyond convincing. They seem to be able to justify anything and everything.

@marmaladeandpeanutbutter Most of these threads are like that, but on both sides. Both sides seem fully justified with ignoring international law, basic human rights and killing innocent civilians. We're justified in doing whatever we want for our security, but the other side is not. Both sides claim discrimination against their side, while ignoring what they themselves do.

The reality is that both sides are responsible for war crimes. Of course, there is no penalty for that, armed forces are immune from prosecution, unless you are on the losing side.

The reality people don’t want to see is that in order to understand the conflict you have to understand the people and what drives them. You think none of the above matters? What do you think happens to the mind and how it can be stressed, manipulated, coerced, etc when it is born into and raised in a refugee camp? Or sees his mom’s home get bulldozed while neighboring mothers have beautiful homes? And your only experience in life is being isolated…..

anyone who’s grown up in relative peace has an entirely different view. Nobody is saying terrorism is ok (except terrorists). But if you can understand how young people grow up to be terrorists and you equate it with islam - you have a hell of a lot of learning to do. If you can’t understand how they’re driven to such hatred you have little chance of changing the threat.

Spending time debating who is more guilty will never ever solve the crisis. And I’m studied the history for my degree and read many books, academic papers, historical accounts, and conducted many interviews. So I’m sharing a my view bases in that. It’s such a complex issue that everyone squabbling and pointing fingers is a waste. Figure out the motivation. Study the history. Then think about the complexity. Think about the psychology of how people are mass manipulated to carry out awful crimes.

@DonnaHadDee, thanks for the "insight" on the the poster on the other thread. Wow! Something to keep mind. Much appreciated :) For some reason I could not PM you, so public thanking you.

News update.

An army of 1500 sadistic Hamas terrorists tortured and killed Jewish citizens including children. They inflicted drawn out and painful death on their victims. One foetus was cut out of the womb of a pregnant Jewish woman in front of her family. Babies were shot at close range in their cot, not with one or 2 bullets to kill but with 100 bullets, shred to pieces.

All in the name of Free Palestine.

I feel sick.

I want to be sick.

How people can try to compare what the IDF are doing to contain this evil - with THIS - it's sick beyond belief.

And yet in the city I live in there was a march with people yelling, faces covered of course, allahu akbar- in defence of the deliberate. Specific, deliberately plannned evil torture rape and killing, the most depraved actions any human can inflict on vulnerable ones. Far far worse than any animal in the wild, which is right now right this second still happening to the hostages that are still alive -thereby torturing their loved ones.

But but but 1948...

Fuck Right Off.

That actually happened to a Palestinian women by Israelis in 1982 you need to report correctly. Soon you will lose all credibility.

https://kashif.ps/misleading-information-published-by-9tv-network-claims-that-hamas-dissected-an-israeli-pregnant-womans-body-and-took-the-fetus-out-to-die-slowly/

Can you post a link from a reputable site to the info about assault on the pregnant woman

Thanks

The spreading of misinformation, the unconfirmed reports in the media & on here about beheaded babies etc which every single reliable network has rolled back on.

I pleaded with some on here to not delight in spreading unconfirmed reports as I feared real life consequences as this was such a horrific story that people would react.

Don't get me wrong any child killed be they Israeli or Palestinian is horrific but this story was spread so far and wide for a reason.

That has happened.

A little Palestinian boy in Chicago has been brutally murdered in a racial revenge attack by some nutter
Antisemitic attacks/speech on an alarming and worrying rise.

Think on, I beg of you before latching onto unconfirmed reports & clutching them to your breast and allowing them to fuel your hate.

I don't need to tag users on here. You know who you are.

Truth matters in journalism

@soddingspiderseason & @bluegentian I think that the Israeli government should use their not minimal intelligence & military & economic might to track down the agents of Hamas & subject them to the full force of the law if able to be caught alive.
I think they should engage in diplomacy at the same time. I think they should use their not inconsiderable ground troops & intelligence to infiltrate Hamas.

I also wonder if they could take a long cold hard look at themselves & how much they fucked up here. It is no secret that Hamas are a terrorist organisation who attack Israel.
Why was one of the worlds most heavily monitored and guarded areas able to be breached.
They let their people down & must answer questions to that in due course.

What I don't think they should do.
Easy: commit war crimes. Cut off water food & electricity to 2.2 million people.

And as for the people 'helping' them - bullshit.
I guarantee if someone from Hamas appeared at your door & pointed a sub machine gun at your child's head. You would do whatever you were damm told to do also.
As would I.
People are terrified of Hamas & Israeli government.
What is true & indisputable is that the Israeli government are killing & maiming more people than anyone at the moment.

So in short I expect them to do anything but commit war crimes and break international law. Not really a big ask tbh.

For all the “Israeli propaganda!””Objective reporting!” “Where’s your humanity?!” posters- if you’d like to see another side to the situation, this is a good place to start.
https://www.memri.org/tv/jordanian-businessman-talal-abu-ghazaleh-gaza-losses-thousands-russia-millions-in-wwii-jews-holocaust
The prejudice, privilege and absolute ignorance of so many posters on here, living in their Western bubble with such a tenuous grasp of SWANA and Jewish history is absolutely shameful.

The entire country? There is also the area of the West Bank, Gaza is a 25 mile x 5 miles stretch of Land.

beachcitygir
I confess I was ignorant of the plight of the citizens of Palestine. But you and others like you were aware so my question is
Why were you not raising their issues before. Would that not helped them much more.

Absoloutely no one on here was in delight about spreading such information. Why are you spreading lies again? As it turns out, it seems the horrors committed my Hamas were even worse than first reported. Have you read what Dr Chen Kugel has described?

Delight is an abhorrent word given what people went through

I’m not connected but I’m struggling with these posts.

I think pp should be more careful on language

@25milesfromhome have you listened to that? So you’re telling me Palestinians are seeking martyrdom? They’re happy to be killed? You believe that all Jews were not killed because Hitler ‘let’ some live to remember the Holocaust? I’ll be reporting that video and post it’s horrifically anti-Semetic.

Agreed @25milesfromhome Mumsnet is not the smart, no bullshit place it once was. I am presuming there is a new and rather young cohort in town, at least for a while. These threads are populated with soundbite type of posters who don't realise just how simple and transparent they are. They have their knickers in a twist and echo bigoted blinkered ideological crap. I hope they are bots as otherwise they're just a bit basic and full of themselves. Thankfully there are people across the religious, political and cultural spectrum who are able to look deeper, and not influenced by shallow attempts to hoodwink others, we need those kinds of people more than ever.

You asked a question and I answered.

How would you know what I have or have not done in the past to raise awareness be relevant in this instance.