To think Hamas have given Israel the excuse they were looking for?

[MistyMooPup]

Not all of Israel. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said he will obliterate Hamas. But undoubtedly hundred if not thousands of civilians will now be killed.

I’m not sure what Hamas thought the end game if this would be? What have the Iranians convinced them of? This was a sophisticated operation, outside help was given for definite.

I’m not sure it’s possible to rationalise with dehumanised terrorists, neither am I sure what the end game will be, but I just can’t understand what Hamas expected if not a total war/strikes from Israel in retaliation.

@MistyMooPup yes, that’s the point. Did you read my post? I’m not telling you Palestinians are seeking martyrdom, Jordanian-Palestinian businessman and former senator Talal Abu Ghazaleh is, and he said it four days ago in an interview. The whole interview is horrifically antisemitic.

https://www.politico.eu/article/i-only-knew-that-from-the-nazis-what-israeli-forensics-have-been-seeing-for-days/

“I cannot describe to you in words what it is like to see a pregnant woman who has had her stomach cut open and the baby pulled out,”

"Many bodies had been burned, he continued. The forensic examination by his team showed they were still alive when they were burned. “We found bodies of elderly civilians. They had all their fingers and toes cut off.”

“We saw chopped-up bodies. Decapitated people, a decapitated child. Many shots to the head, as if one was not enough. A woman whose eyes were shot out.”

“We see them in stages of abuse that even if we knew them, we wouldn’t even recognize them.”

"Forensic examination found several cases of rape."

https://newsable.asianetnews.com/world/inhuman-hamas-terrorists-brutally-murders-pregnant-woman-lets-unborn-child-die-outside-womb-snt-s2bn33
They reportedly dissected her body, leaving behind a trail of unimaginable violence. The woman's stomach was reportedly cruelly cut open, and her unborn child was forcibly taken from her womb, still connected by the umbilical cord.
What follows is a chilling and heart-wrenching tragedy as the Hamas terrorists callously allowed the innocent unborn child to die slowly outside of its mother's womb.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12623843/Israel-releases-images-babies-murdered-burned-Hamas-verified-photos-beheaded-terrorists-confirmed-local-media-IDF-drops-Gaza-leaflets-telling-citizens-flee.html
A rescue team who visited the kibbutz, where the smell of rotting bodies still hangs in the air, told how they saw a pregnant lady lying on the floor of the first house they walked into. When they turned her over, they saw that her unborn baby had been sliced from her womb.

'We saw a pregnant lady lying on the floor, and then we turn her around and see that the stomach is cut open, wide open,'

'The unborn baby, still connected with umbilical cord, was stabbed with a knife. And the mother was shot in the head.

https://www.news18.com/world/her-belly-was-ripped-open-baby-stabbed-israeli-rescuers-shares-tales-of-hamas-horror-8614881.html
“Her stomach was ripped open, a baby was there, still connected with the cord, and stabbed. We saw some victims positioned that they were sexually abused,”

He said he saw multiple civilians, including around 20 children, who had their hands tied behind their backs before being shot and torched.

And trying to deflect and distract from the point of my post by accusing me of “believing” and quoting Talal Abu Ghazaleh’s abhorrent thoughts on the Holocaust is very revealing. I see you.

@Glitterdavies I'm glad we agree that cutting an unborn baby out of their mother's womb is not ok.

@25milesfromhome

I see you.

Don't we just!?!

Do you mean Israel or the Israeli government?

You seem to refer to Hamas and not Palestine, yet refer to Israel and not Israeli government.

That's problematic for me and makes me wonder if you're blaming the average Israeli more than the average Palestian?

Thank you @ForFriends
I'm sorry that you had to read and copy all of that because there are so many people deeply invested in calling Jews liars, defending the indefensible, and disregarding the most appalling,vicious, sickening murders imaginable.

Did the posters asking you to provide sources thank you for them, for the emotional distress and investment of time, and express their horror at the beyond sickening crimes described?

This is a 25 minute short documentary about one man's effor tto return to Gaza to visit his family. It was made 3-4 years ago so not specific to this conflict but it humanizes Palestinians as people. They have families they love.

In this conflict both sides have lost site of the humanity of people. They see them as enemy, as bugs to be squashed, as collateral damage, as worthless due to a bigger vision for power.

I think it is important that just like the Hamas victims have been given names and faces and stories, the same is true of Palestinians. It seems many Israeli's have been raised to not really see them as people but just as threats, and as subhuamns who need to be controlled and put down and killed to keep peace in Israel. Just like Israeli'e want to see their dead not forgotten, I do hope there are some Israeli's who see Palestinians as humans with families living under the sraeli regime and occupation. We really don't see that on these threads and it is unfortunate. There are so many stories online that huamize Palestinians who love their families and friends and grieve at their deaths and feel terror and horror as they watch their children die that one would hope eventually the average Israeli citizen would feel some empathy as well. But both sides have been brainwashed to think the other is evil and those in power on both sides are. But the humans on both sides are mor alike than they are different.

They thanked me 'in advance' in their original post, as a predictable cheap shot. As @25milesfromhome said, we see them.

I am glad I read through the details of this massacre, I rather know what we're dealing with and those poor people deserve their story told far and wide.

I didn't see anyone call the Israelis liers
I don't see anyone denying the horror of the attack

But i do see a lot of posts denying that Israel has ever done anything wrong , has ever killed an innocent Palestinian

I see a lot of posts suggesting the attack on Israel was a start of something not a continuation of the long running conflict

199 hostages taken by Hamas not yet released.

Aid talks ongoing.

Hamas have built a 5km network of tunnels under Gaza beneath civilian buildings. They house factories for making weapons, and are used to mobilise, communicate and transport resources. These are not tunnels dug out with spoons.

If you would prefer Hamas captured rather than bombed it’s important to consider the Israeli govt”s duty of care to its own troops and whether this would be successful. They have a duty to safeguard their Land Troops. They are the children of Israeli parents being sent into a war zone..

Sending troops in without destroying the infrastructure that allows Hamas to arm and mobilise, and carry out assaults and attacks would be a poor strategy in the theatre of war. They cannot send them into traps

it is therefore the Israeli govt strategy to use heavy artillery to penetrate the earth in Gaza deep enough to destroy and remove the tunnels, before they send in troops.

it is usual in the theatre of war to take action to destroy infrastructure- to immobilise the enemy. In the Ukraine / Russia war bridges and roads were blown up for example so that the enemy could not use them to advance and mobilise and to stop supplies getting through to them. The weaker the enemy are at the point of contact the better in terms of strategy.

The complication for the Israeli govt is that the Hamas infrastructure they seek to destroy is underneath a densely populated area - beneath civilian buildings.

The ethics of preserving civilian life versus taking out the Hamas infrastructure because it is an ongoing and real and present threat is the dilemma in terms of strategy.

There at 199 hostages still not released.
Aid talks are ongoing.

The j international community are talking with both Hamas and the Israeli govt separately..

Countries are sending ships and resources to try to stop the war spreading in the region.

The UK govt has increased its aid to Palestinians people to £10m.

it’s a very complex situation and far more nuanced than “they should capture the people that did it”.

Just watching channel 4 news. Just dreadful that the Palestinian hospitals can't be evacuated and fuel is running out, and has already in some places.

Yes wad is awful wherever it is. What are your thoughts on Yemen?

Yemen's protracted armed conflict and humanitarian crisis severely impact children: 13 million children in Yemen need humanitarian assistance, 2 million are internally displaced, and more than 10,200 children have been killed or maimed, according to UNICEF.

*war is awful

See what? 🕵🏽

Not sure if this will get me banned, reported or what ever but here goes.

I don't know why so many people in the UK want to throw their lot in with people whose values just don't match ours.

Values are important!

Religious Tolerance - Does not exist in Gaza.
Female Equality - Does not exist in Gaza.
Education - Boys and Girls are separated in Schools
Free Speech - Does Not exist in Gaza
LGTBQ Rights - Do not exist in Gaza

I can supply non biased links for all of the above if you don't believe me.

Yemen is relevant to your post because of your concern about health care and hospitals.

Eight years of conflict, compounded by economic collapse, natural disasters and the COVID-19 pandemic, have taken an inordinate toll on women and girls. The health system has virtually collapsed.

@SnowflakeCity "They should capture the people who did it. "

This is an incredibly naive comment.

If that was possible then the IDF would have done it by now.

The leader of Hamas is living in Qatar in luxury. Are you suggesting they send in the SAS to get him?

Hamas is a cowardly terrorist organisation. It wreaks terror and then hides behind the skirts of women and children. It inserts itself into the general population to use them as 'human shields'.

Israel is fighting for it's survival against an organisation that doesn't 'play fair'. And don't forget that Hamas is backed by Iran that has the destruction of the State of Israel as part of it's raison d'etre.

If you would prefer Hamas captured rather than bombed it’s important to consider the Israeli govt”s duty of care to its own troops and whether this would be successful. They have a duty to safeguard their Land Troops. They are the children of Israeli parents being sent into a war zone..

Sending troops in without destroying the infrastructure that allows Hamas to arm and mobilise, and carry out assaults and attacks would be a poor strategy in the theatre of war. They cannot send them into traps

it is therefore the Israeli govt strategy to use heavy artillery to penetrate the earth in Gaza deep enough to destroy and remove the tunnels, before they send in troops.

it is usual in the theatre of war to take action to destroy infrastructure- to immobilise the enemy. In the Ukraine / Russia war bridges and roads were blown up for example so that the enemy could not use them to advance and mobilise and to stop supplies getting through to them. The weaker the enemy are at the point of contact the better in terms of strategy.

The complication for the Israeli govt is that the Hamas infrastructure they seek to destroy is underneath a densely populated area - beneath civilian buildings.

The ethics of preserving civilian life versus taking out the Hamas infrastructure because it is an ongoing and real and present threat is the dilemma in terms of strategy.

There at 199 hostages still not released.
Aid talks are ongoing.

The j international community are talking with both Hamas and the Israeli govt separately..

Countries are sending ships and resources to try to stop the war spreading in the region.

The UK govt has increased its aid to Palestinians people to £10m.

it’s a very complex situation and far more nuanced than “they should capture the people that did it”.

Hamas is a cowardly terrorist organisation. It wreaks terror and then hides behind the skirts of women and children. It inserts itself into the general population to use them as 'human shields'.
This. I am appalled at the way Palestinians have been and continue to be used by Hamas for their own perverted and sadistic intentions and way of life. Free Palestinians from Hamas and start a proper long term peace strategy for the region.

It’s a shame they can’t pump knock out gas into the tunnels, there must be an air supply down there.

I will be very surprised if they ever manage to get (living) hostages back.

In fact, every country to join forces to rescue Palestinians from Hamas. Our concern should go far beyond offering aid for now.

@SnowflakeCity please explain to everyone exactly how the Israeli Defence Force personnel is supposed to capture heavily armed Hamas, PIJ and Lion’s Den terrorists?

Terrorist, I might add, who have no problem using civilians as human shields AND who are also willing to die for their ideology.

I think we'd all be interested to hear your alternatives to the current plan of destroying terrorist infrastructure ahead of a ground incursion...