To think Hamas have given Israel the excuse they were looking for?

[MistyMooPup]

Not all of Israel. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said he will obliterate Hamas. But undoubtedly hundred if not thousands of civilians will now be killed.

I’m not sure what Hamas thought the end game if this would be? What have the Iranians convinced them of? This was a sophisticated operation, outside help was given for definite.

I’m not sure it’s possible to rationalise with dehumanised terrorists, neither am I sure what the end game will be, but I just can’t understand what Hamas expected if not a total war/strikes from Israel in retaliation.

Why is the Hamas leadership sitting comfortably in Qatar. And why is Qatar supporting a banned terrorist organization. Should they not deal with the chaos they have created

This is really sad

Qatar is an Islamic state and sharia is the main source of their laws. Non-muslims are structurally discriminated against, for the same reason that Jews were under Islamic rule in Palestine for centuries. Qatar agrees with Hamas that lands conquered by Islam should never be handed over to former dhimmis.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-67085625.amp

Will these acts not create fear of all Muslims

Keep reporting posts that spread misinformation and attack individual posters. It's not helpful.

I feel for the Gazans, but many or their problems are of their own making.
Look at all the hateful posts on MN, how can there be hope for peace in the middle east if posters attack each other while sitting comfortably at home with a cup of tea and biscuit?

Gazans have indeed been radicalised but they deserve peace like Israelis, like all human beings. Instead of attacking posters, please share thoughts and ideas HOW Israelis and Palestinians can coexist in the Middle East peacefully. Stop the hate and think about what you want to happen in order to enable both groups to live in safety and prosperity?

What would be a better way to deal with the massacres and save the remaining Israeli hostages, all of whom are innocent civilians, many children and women? There must be some pretty smart mumsnetters here, let's hear your thoughts! What would you do if you were in Benjamin Netanyahu's shoes and how can Gazans get rid of Hamas to move forward?

It's a little late to worry about that now. If you reproduce every conflict on Earth in your country through mass immigration, you'll eventually get every conflict on Earth in your country. As was endlessly predicted.

Are you not worried though that Israel's actions might create fear of all Jews in England?

No because the Jews are not attacking people in the UK.

Re the first paragraph can this be said yet without usual attack? It feels obvious but we seem to shy away from the idea

Indeed.

No you'll be attacked for saying it alright. People who tried to prevent it were all attacked, often literally. Western civilization is an open air lunatic asylum.

The footage of young 'Free Palestine' supporters in London ripping off and shredding posters featuring Israeli children who have been kidnapped by Hamas is chilling. A young couple tore posters off while shopping on Oxford street, they chucked them in the bin full of anger. The young woman had just been shopping at Zara and casually ripped the posters off.

How can they be so hateful? 'Free Palestine' supporters go on about Gazan children, and rightly so as we must protect them too, but their love and protectiveness for children is only reserved for their own, they heartlessly disrespect the individuals on the posters and their families, these are actual children who are being harmed right now and deserve help. It just makes 'Free Palestine' supporters seem fanatic and hateful.

The point on groups of people in conflict bringing that into another country should be looked at

We can see the issues arising but can’t talk about it. It’s still under a banner of not right to do

It’s problematic

The footage of young 'Free Palestine' supporters in London ripping off and shredding posters featuring Israeli children who have been kidnapped by Hamas is chilling

But perhaps not as chilling as learning that Hamas have told Palestinians to ignore Israel's warning to evacuate - one worth remembering when folk insist that Israel is actively choosing to kill civilians

Very obviously it's not as simple as "just going somewhere else", but it surely has to be better than being dead, and overall this just says so much about Hamas's attitude to the lives of even their own people

This is what I do not understand. Has Hamas come from somewhere outside or are they citizens of Gaza.
If they are citizens then the people there are their relatives and so why should they leave. If this is a group from somewhere outside then its a different matter.

Imagine how confusing it is for Palestinians. Israel have cut off communications, they have no power, no access to the outside world. There is no one on their side. Does everyone even know they are being told to leave? How are they supposed to leave? Israel have cut off fuel so they can't drive. Can you even drive through the rubble anyway? How do you carry your children through rubble when you have no water, no food, probably haven't slept, are possibly injured? It is horrific. What do medics do? Do they leave their seriously ill patients or do they say goodbye to their families and risk death by staying. It is really clear that no matter who says leave and who says go a very significant proportion of people will not be able to leave.

It is terrifying to think about what those poor people have ahead of them and if they get hurt that is a choice that Israel have made. There are no excuses for collective punishment, ever.

Hamas members ARE citizens of Gaza, yes. I'm sure they don't all come from Gaza as some are from West Bank and possibly other Arab States.

Something for me to look into!

HAMAS formed in late 1987 at the beginning of the first Palestinian intifada (uprising). Its roots are in the Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood, and it is supported by a robust sociopolitical structure inside the Palestinian territories.
Hamas was actually founded by Palestinian imam and activist Ahmed Yassin. It emerged out of his Mujama al-Islamiya, which had been established in Gaza in 1973 as a religious charity involved with the Egypt-based Muslim Brotherhood.

Yes, but who is going to take them to task?

Qatar has been accused of supporting Hamas the Palestinian group designated as a terrorist organization by a number of countries. Qatar denies these allegations, stating that it does not support Hamas' political position, and that its policy is to help facilitate constructive engagement between Hamas and the Palestinian National Authority.

Sorry I have so many questions and thank you to all who have been explaining. I was looking to find news reports of the people of Gaza being unhappy about being ruled by Hamas and how their aid was being divereted towards terrorist activities but cannot seem to find anything.
Has anybody got any information on this. Thanks in advance.

Hamas are disgusting and do not care if Palestinians die but Israel know that 1.1m can't be expected to move within 24 hours. Let's see if they really do go through with their threat.

OP stated: "Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said he will obliterate Hamas. But undoubtedly hundred if not thousands of civilians will now be killed."

As with many such groups, Hamas is much more than an organization, it is an ideology. Whatever murderous revenge fueled campaign he unleashes in Gaza the idea will live on.

OP stated: "This was a sophisticated operation". I've not seen any evidence to suggest that, but it will become cleared in the coming months. It looks like basic incompetence with respect to Israeli security services. There are very serious questions to be answered. This was likely largely avoidable. Totally unacceptable for a state surrounded by states and groups hostile to them.

The images of mobilised Muslims attending Day of jihad gatherings around the world look scary. These men look pretty pissed off and militant. Obviously they're burning Israeli flags. Hezbollah wants to support Hamas now, it looks like there will be all out war. Israel is a Non-NATO Ally Status as of 2023, which hopefully means that other Western countries won't be dragged into a war.

What would 'Free Palestine' supporters like to achieve? What is the best outcome for you?

I think displaced ISIS fighters have joined hamas and bolstered their numbers as well as barbarity. The violence instigated is new to Hamas, it's very reminiscent of ISIS though. The savagery is another level to the usual Hamas signature MO.