30s TTC: Club BESHicana, drinks are free and we're hungry like the WOOFL! The MSDP continues...

[Scorpette]

Come on in, collect the Grolsch bottle tops for your DM shoes at the door

We're going all-out 80s for the continuation of the Mass Summer Diffment Project: John Hughes films playing back-to-back and on BESH FM, DJ ChoCho will be playing our all-time 80s faves, from New Romantics to Synth to Goth to Hair Metal to Pop and back again (no Fields of The Nephilim, mind). Our bartenders and waiters are Ducky from Pretty in Pink, Ralph Macchio (the Karate Kid) and Corey Haim (back from the dead especially for us) and unlike most of the real 80s, we actually get to booze!

Here's hoping the authentic 80s vibe will trick our bodies into thinking we've got the ovaries of teenagers!

(Not to mention tricking them into being super skinny and able to eat whatever we want and staying that way!)

There's plenty of Babycham and Ice Magic to pour over ice-cream in the Pit and Metal Mickey will bring them to the wretched at the click of a finger.

So whaddya waiting for? Slip on the ra-ra skirts, slap on the blue eyeliner and let's get winning those baybeez! Last one in the pool's a psycho hose beast!

oh blimey dont know where to start! and this is only one day! tried to log in at lunch time today and computer said a big fat NO, which is prob a good thing as i'd get the sack within a weel.

yourholinessofbangdom, sorry to hear u are poorly sick. soudns more like an ear and throat infection than tonsilitis as its one sode only. had one not long ago and it felt like someone had tried to remove my tonsil thru my ear hole with a knitting needle, plus i had the spots (but only on my throat) my dear old nan would tell you to gargle with salt water but i reckon gin would do as well.

flutingflowerlady sounds like we are on the same timescales. i may need to lean on you if it all gets too much.

sodiumchlorideladenbreeze no shizzle you are knackered! what a day! by all meant lie until your nose needs its own scaffolding. no-ones business what you are up to. hope it all goes well on friday and that the rustiness and sickness is a good sign.

oh and curlyhornedramalamadingdong i would also like to know what you do. all sounds very intriguing.

Question: "Is there something to the far left of Atheism?"

Answer: My Mum.

Me and TYF have those arguments too. So far, I am winning (he might disagree).

sorry got a bit carried away. was playing a game with myself as to how long and obscure i could make them [easily amused]

going a bit mental here, have to pack for a two day (carry on only) business trip to germany, its going to be hot but rainy, after which i will land in manchester and go straight to a wedding down south, so i need to get everything together now, half of which the OH will bring inc weddingy things. plus try to fit pre wedding prep into carry on baggage (100ml only) hmm. but at least its just ordinary mental not menkul.

also just peed on my first ov stick. WAY too early as only on CD08 but was intrigued by the squashy thing in the packet and curiosity got the better of me. turned out just to be one of those silica sachets. let down or what.

on the atheism front, no need for those arguments in our house we are both of the same mind, there is no higher being. although i believe in human spirituality and determinism (not in a flaky way tho) and he believes in fate (wtf?) which we don't agree on, obviously, because he is wrong.

wasnt going to take my laptop with me but now wondering if there will be wifi in the hotel at least i would have 20 pages to catch up on on sunday :D

*wouldn't

I went to a Humanist funeral of an old family friend not long ago. It was lovely, well you know not lovely - in fact I was very sad, but it was very fitting and dignified.

I am a wishy washy agnostic I'm afraid. And a wishy washy Liberal. Not really an Aries at all

TYF says I have to tell you all that he is the bigger atheist out of us two.

Nawww, we don't really argue, we agree on all matters religious, political and philosophical (although I am more of an existentialist than he is).

I have a coal of faith that won't be put out, no matter how hard I try (and I do!).

I don't argue with people about it though. Can't argue about faith: pointless. Well you can argue about faith with people that don't realise their faith is faith and have mistaken it for evidence or a measurable framework of reality, if you see what I mean, but those people are idiots. As long as someone admits there's no measurable evidence for the existence of anything not comprised of atoms, and shrugs and doesn't much care, it all gets a bit circular and frustrating

Scorpalicious do you really agree on all matters?!

Aries why should you apologise for being an agnostic?

Because it means I'm not strong minded and decisive enough to believe one thing or t'other! I sway with the wind. And I only pray when I want something, which isn't really the idea at all. I used to be very devout as a teenager, but then my friend went and died of the most horrible, painful cancer at the age of 15. I'd prayed my hardest that she would get well. It was a bit of a blow.

Am not really here (woo,spooky) but had to quickly post to say will be thinking of you tomorrow twinks.

chocolatesaltyballs am hoping you get good news on fri.

I'm mostly trying my damnedest to keep up with the thread but not posting due to lack of time and braincells. Have a very strange brain at the moment which is not entirely under my control.

By the way,I have noticed a distinct lack of boozing and random violence around here lately

I truly believe that the most wise, tolerant and compassionate people, whether atheist or believing, see the value of doubt...

I'm so sorry about your friend. My faith (and we're talking a life-defining fundamentalism here) began to slip when a family friend died suddenly or multiple organ failure leaving behind 4 sons.

bangers was the approval for my superlongmonickers, my packing skills or my stick peeing? (i'd put money on it being the peeing)

aries thats awful, a good friend of mine died of cancer at 21. it certainly puts a twisted perspective on things and you were a lot younger than i was. v hard to deal with all that harshness when you are only just becoming an adult.

personally i dont think a little faith is a bad thing. its dogma i have a problem with.

Hard to see rhyme or reason behind that isn't it? Faith isn't enough - why would a deity want them to die and break their families' hearts? Especially a bubbly, gorgeous 15 year old, or the parent of four children.

By the way, where's Cass? Is she having time off? We want Casserole!

I was looking at yer tits actually Lettice

right off to flash these bad boys at mrB and see if i can entice some hop on out of him.

I became an Atheist properly at 10, because, after long sessions laid in bed at night thinking about God and so on, I realised that to me, it makes no sense whatsoever and is, well, silly (obviously a lot more to my beliefs and opinions but am trying to avoid causing offence). I've never had that 'there can't be a God cos why do good people die?' thing, possibly because I was too young when I formed that consciousness for me to have experienced real loss. Interestingly, TYF became an Atheist at the same age, doing the same thing. To me, science, evolution and all that makes total sense and explains everything so well and the idea of invisible people watching, controlling and judging everyone alive simultaneously and there are various ethereal places you go when you die... erm, well, let's just say it doesn't make so much sense. The world is so magnificent, awesome and mysterious that I think trying to find some sort of supernatural explanation for it is kinda insulting and really egotistical of mankind. I actually find it vaguely immoral. Why can't it be enough? Why can't it be what it is? Why is it insulting for humans to be animals and not be here for a reason? Why must we demean the mindboggling brilliance of our universe by ascribing it a creator? I can understand why people were religious waaay back when they didn't know how to make sense of stuff but it's irrelevant nowadays. Morality and all that comes from within, not religion.

And yep, me and TYF agree on most 'big' issues. I am an anti-porn Feminist and he doesn't think it's as bad a thing as I do (typical man!), but that's about it. Oh yeah, he has no problem with future kids going to a C of E primary school, whereas I do (find indoctrination immoral and insulting).

I'm much more dour in RL than you'd suspect from here, you know Here endeth my rant.

PS I don't dismiss the views of others, BTW. If anyone else ever wants to share their religious beliefs, I won't be mean or offended or make them feel daft nor nuffink. Cos, oh baby, baby, it's a wide world... and who knows who is right.

Headcase I suspect you and TH could have very interesting conversations - he too seems unable to get away from some kind of faith no matter how hard he tries. No competitions needed in our house though as I've never tried to get away from faith. I'm almost the opposite of Scorps in that in the end for me the world makes more sense if God is in it, but that doesn't stop me wondering (and I've never had personal close-up experience of the kind of real tragedies some of you are talking about). I certainly wouldn't ever think I'm right and can prove it, it's definitely a matter of faith.

Scorps how much indoctrination goes on at CofE primary schools? I've never had anything to do with one, but my mum works in one and I've never got the impression that there's any more stuff you wouldn't like than in the not in the slightest church affiliated one I went to. (Not that I'm trying to persuade you in any direction, am just intrigued).

Tell you what puzzles me: that when good happens, or people are nice and give money to charity and help others and pull together etc, it's not enough for it to be attributable to human kindness. When I end up desperately praying (of the please, please, please variety) I wonder if it's just be being superstitious rather than having a moment of devotion. I suspect so. I'd like to think that humans, as well as being fuckers, are capable of great goodness and morality on their own and not because a higher being is working through them. Is that an atheist? Or a humanist? Or are they the same? And if there isn't a God, then can there be any kind of spirit? And what are ghosts?

Muse muse muse.
Puzzle puzzle puzzle
Think think think.

And with those thoughts, I'm going to Bedfordshire (in the words of Bridget Jones)

I don't think there's actual indoctrination going on in CofE schools. I taught in one! We had a vicar on the board of governors and he was the nicest, kindest, best man I've known. He was the chaplain at a hospice and I can't think of anyone more suited to comforting people in their last hours. He came and spoke to the Y6's about his work there and they of course, were absolutely full of questions about Life, The Universe and Everything. He handled them brilliantly. Several of them dissolved into tears at the memory of grandparents, pets etc dying. It was incredibly touching. There was no indoctrination, just a shining example of a steady, gently faith, which probably impressed a lot of them.

On the other hand I also did teaching practice in a Catholic school and I hated it. They could ignore the NC guidelines on learning about other religions because they were a faith school, so these children were growing up thinking the only religion worth anything whatsoever was theirs. It felt so wrong and I felt like such a phoney having to go along with it.

I thought I was going to bed

I've known some maddening Christians in my time who didn't seem to think that anyone other than proper bible believing Christians were capable of doing good things, because we're all depraved and can't possibly do good things without believing all the right things first. Which just seems like utter nonsense to me. I'm sure that we all have the capabilities for both good and evil whether that's to do with all things spiritual or is just human nature, and to deny the many good things done by atheists or whoever seems bizarre.

Aries are you going up the wooden hill to Bedfordshire, or is it just my slightly barmy Grandad who says such things?

You mean they let you through the doors of a Catholic school when you're not a Catholic? I get the impression that's really not allowed up here (but I may be way out of date on that, things may have changed), but then education and religion in Scotland is a complicated mix.