Ditherers Anonymous - Is there ever a right time?

[confuseddoiordonti]

A continuation from the previous two threads we have filled going round in circles about whether to have a baby, or whether never to have a baby... All insights and new recruits welcome!

(and those of you now with BFP's - don't you go sloping off leaving us for more decisive types!)

Definitions courtesy of Dr Honeypetal Sparklepants.

Dither: vb. def. The act of procrastination and delaying of coming to a decision regarding reproduction due to an attachment to lie-ins, working bowels and cheap holidays in term time.

Ditherer: n. def. One who is in a permanent state of flux regarding whether to procreate or not (see def. of babyometer). On the flick of a coin, may ultimately not reproduce, or bear triplets. Whatever. pl. A confusion of ditherers.

Babyometer: def. Semi-quantitative scale upon which an individuals current extent of dithering (i.e. desire to conceive) is measured, commonly red, amber or green, although reddy-amber, greeny-amber and reddy-ambery-green have been described (see def. Dithering). Caution is required during interpretation as measurement may change hourly.

That's funny Confused because last night I had a light bulb moment of my own where I thought, do you know my career is just taking off, we're still working on getting a bit of cash behind us, I've never been travelling and I'm only 33, why rush into things?!

Ooh good to see that there's some high-quality dithering going on in here...hello all

I'm driving myself a bit crazy because after months of protracted talks with DP about when, etc, we are pretty near agreeing to start...and now I'm getting the heeby-jeebies, flashing from red to green like a disco light!

Yesterday I was pretty certain it would ruin my life. Today, however, I am decidedly broody. Had very vivid baby dream last night and reckon that's probably why (although freakishly it involved a baby which could walk and speak at birth....eeeeeeeee!!!!)

It's difficult not to make a decision one way or the other just for the sake of having made a decision and not driving yourself mad anymore, isn't it?

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT????????

Really, C? Really? OMG?

Blimey! Me and DH in pub discussing - tell all later as can't now as typing on Blackberry on loo

back from pub, he is ordering curry> yes, gave him the book, he is as dithery as me.. tell all when i cn x

Will check here/email when you are ready. Bloody hell, C. Good luck. If you have a strong feeling, listen to it, even if it is transient.

Quod if it was a straight choice between baby now or sterilisation now I'd have a baby.

Hello all,

WOW, confused!!!! That is quite a step... Really really really hoping the house sale goes through at last! You really are due a bit of luck on that one. And who knows what might follow...

Just a quick update on me (us!) - sorry not to have got on here before (and thanks for being interested!). Don't want to hijack the thread (yet again) but just to let the interested parties know: Nell (short for Eleanor) was born on 3rd February, 13 days late after being induced. I had a really pretty good experience of the labour on the whole: a night of cramping after they put the first lot of drugs in (via a pessary - lovely!), but then contractions proper started about 7.30am, and quite close together from the start. I was on an open antenatal ward, so that was quite interesting - trying not to make too much of a spectacle of myself! (Someone had been bellowing in a terrifying fashion in the early hours so I was quite nervous!) But found the TENS machine really helpful and I was 3-4cm dilated when they examined me, thankfully. After about an hour of increasingly painful contractions, I was taken up in a wheelchair to the delivery unit and even though I was quite close to fully dilated, opted for an epidural as I didn't like gas and air at all - felt very spaced out and sick. After that carried on feeling weird as after-effects of the gas and air, but the epidural was fab and managed to push her out with a bit of help from the syntocinon drip in the end. She was born at 12.30pm weighing 7lb exactly, so only 5 hours of proper contractions.

Sorry for the TMI for those who don't really care about my labour details one iota!! But we have talked about this among the old timers in the past so just in case they care!

So very different from YTD's major ordeal - I know how lucky I have been! And life the other side... Well, it's quite a rollercoaster! She is gorgeous, to us at least (though thanks for saying she's cute, c!) and although the books warn you that they don't do much or interaact much early on (which is true), we are finding her endlessly fascinating even in the flailing, helpless stage! It is bloody knackering, even with the relatively easy ride we are having. Despite the relatively rapid labour, I lost a night's sleep before it started to the pre-labour cramping, and then a night afterwards to screaming babies on the post-natal ward, so came home pretty tired - and there ain't no catch-up with a new baby! But we have been really lucky, relatively speaking - Nell is a good sleeper, often sleeping 4 hours in a stretch at night if we don't wake her for a feed, so the nights haven't been too bad (or rather catastrophically bad in pre-baby terms, but really very good in new parent terms!). You're on a knife-edge, emotionally, and I am definitely more prone to weeping for good and bad reasons than ever before. It's hard to evaluate it this time, really. I did have a moment the other night when it suddenly sunk in that this was it, and all the old freedoms were gone for the foreseeable. But it was quite fleeting (though I know it will come back with a VENGEANCE at some point!), and generally one lives in the moment completely and just submits oneself totally to the world and needs and captivating cuteness of the little one! Almost best of all is that DH is absolutely loving it - totally besotted as well as fascinated as a scientist! I know I'll resent it at some stage when he gets all the fun interaction, but not the sometimes painful and knackering feeding and the day to day grind, but he has been brilliant with housework etc. while he's been off, and is still helping a fair bit now that he's back at work. All the Athena cliches of man holding baby are true too - it's very sweet and sexy (not that that will be on the agenda for quite a while - ahem - second degree tears that I haven't even actually looked at yet... ).

Anyway, enough of this and sorry to be so off-message, but just wanted to check in from the world post-TTC - can't advocate it or really evaluate whether it was the right thing (ask me in 10, 20 years!) and I know it's going to be incredibly tough at times but it's certainly amazing and utterly absorbing so far. And I'm happy in the moment.

Very very best of luck to you all with decisions. HP - owe you a massive email which I keep starting over... [Waves to YTD] Will butt out now and please feel free to ignore this post all those who for whom it means little or nothing!

Hello all, and a huge thank you to LST for your lovely and thought provoking post. I doubt I am speaking only for myself when I say that I find hearing about both having the baby and just after (physically and emotionally) fascinating.
I am currently out with the dog while DH tidies the house as we have a viewing at 4. Hence, I am responding on the Blackberry so apologise for any disjointedness or bad spelling in advance.
LST it sounds as if the birth went really well, apart from the second degree tears (ouch! I can only imagine, shudder!) Was it so quick due to the induction? My DH has had gas and air and from his description I am not keen on the sound of it. Seems a lot of the drugs don't actually kill the pain but instead get you off your face. Obviously I may change my tune if I ever have one myself, but I think I'd prefer to be a bit more with it.I didn't think your post was remotely TMI, in fact the more detail the merrier! I have been watching OBEM with fascination, especially the change from the second the baby is born. The women seem to go from screaming blue murder to a look of utter bliss in a matter of miliseconds. I guess its impossible to imagine what its like if you haven't done it. My mum thinks that OBEM is really inaccurate as labour pains are "really, just like bad period pains" although I think the majority of my friends would laugh at that description!

I think Athena cliches would get me too, cheesy as it may be. Was it Pawsandclaws who mentioned, ages ago, about partners holding brand new babies and nuzzling their fluffy heads...? I think it was also her who first mentioned the little white vests too...

I am going to keep it brief while typing on this about last night as its not easy to write for ages. More detail to come. We ended up talking about TTC and, I think, DH asked me if I wanted to. He said he felt bad as he has already done it (at 22 and he only lived with his son for the first 6 months). I told him that I thought I did, but only if he did too. Turns out he does but is also terrified of the diabetic side of things. Also, we can't really do anything till we sell the frigging house.
Will write in more detail later as keep loosing thread and forgettoing what I wanted to say (and have gone bog eyed)

LST congratulations on little Nell and thank you for sharing your experience with us. Even the most straightforward of births is far from straightforward in relative terms, labouring on the ward must have been mental. Are you very relieved to have been through it and come out the other side?

The first question in my mind was how had your DH taken to fatherhood, given his early reservations. It's really lovely to hear that he's enjoying it (lol at Confused and the Athena Man) and that the two of them have bonded and that he is looking after you both. Having a child must be so fascinating, even if it does come with a lot of drudgery and lack of sleep.

Confused I can't wait to hear more about you and DH being Mr and Mrs Green! I hope you're not thinking of leaving me, minipie, quod and HP etc dithering on our own!

• not that I am dithering, of course!

Hello all, Can write properly now as on laptop rather than walking round a muddy field and trying to type on a phone.

So, Amanda, first of all your lightbulb moment... It's a bugger that travelling and careers taking off aren't that compatible really as both are great (though, for me, the travelling would win hands down every time!) Thankfully I have done a lot of travelling, both for work and for pleasure and I have also, despite it going against convention, decided that hard core careering is not for me. I worked in magazines / journalism (which I still do, but freelance and the amount of work a get varies) and, after a while, grew sick of the schmoozing and late nights in the office. I also remember sitting in editorial meetings thinking how much I didn't give a fuck about what we had to mention in various upcoming features due to advertising or promises given to friends of friends in the industry (I worked in wedding magazines mainly.) Hence, I thought 'fuck this' (always eloquent) and went to work for a landmine charity in Cambodia (I went twice, for just over a year.) Now that was worth doing but when I came back I discovered that getting a job in a charity (with the background and qualifications I have) was bloody impossible. Hence, I went back to writing and now still write for wedding mags more than anything else As well as this, though, I am also making figurines out of Fimo which started off as a hobby / presents for couples getting married but is now expanding to being commissioned and is gradually growing. Once we bloody move I am getting proper cards etc printed and plan to do wedding fairs (not craft fairs as they seem to be full of people unwilling to pay more than £3 for anything.) I can also display examples in cake shops and the like and perhaps even rent a unit (where we are moving to is known for it's 'creative types' and, living in part show home due to viewings, I have to keep all my stuff packed away here which entails putting stuff in the cellar and / of loft each time which is a pain in the bum.)

I have just read the above and am now wondering why on earth I decided to give you my career history in a nutshell. I think the reason may be (apart from obvious self obsession it appears) because it has made me realise that now I think I am as ready as I'll ever be to start a family. I have travelled, I am not tied to an office job (which is VERY competitive re magazines) and while it wouldn't be great timing re the cake toppers / figurines I can do that part time easily enough and there is always my writing which can tide me over too. I like being reasonably free with what I am doing and where and when I can do it and also realise that I like working for myself rather than someone else, despite the negative points such as no sick pay, the good points outweigh the bad. Ideally it would be good to have a few years in the new house both sorting the house out and also getting more established with the figurines but as I am 36 (37 in Sept) it is also a good idea to crack on, as it were, with the TTCing when we move as we all know these things can take a while.

The above points were a large part of the conversation me and DH had on Friday. As I said before, he also finds the diabetic side of things very daunting, far more than I do (although he is also a natural worrier anyway.) When my friend S was ill / dying I had some scary hypo's which I have never had before (well, only once but that was due to being painfully thin when I came back from India) and you can be more prone to things like that when up duffed. However, as I have never let it get in the way of my life before, I certainly won't let it get in the way now! Type 1 diabetes is classified as 'a chronic illness' which is terminology I hate; I am not ill I have a manageable condition and refuse to see it any other way!

Lastly, in this me-me-me-athon, I'll add that DH wasn't sure if I wanted to or not but said he felt a bit guilty that it wouldn't matter to him that much if we didn't have a child as he has one already. While he would like one with me it wouldn't be the be all and end all. I think it was that point when I told him that I thought I did. Yikes!

So, we have plans in place but, and this is not an excuse, don't want to act on them until we have moved. Moving to a building site etc for the sake of, I hope, hanging on an extra 6 months, seems a bit stupid. TTCing once we are there makes things a bit more sensible (and, my god, I bet it will focus the mind in terms of DIY! - DH is very meticulous but also VERY slow!)

LST great to hear from you. So glad to hear about the safe arrival of little Nell (great name BTW - perhaps we should make it a rule that all ditherers who go on to have a baby girl must call her Eleanor?). Not TMI info at all. Am wincing at the thought of a 2nd degree tear though, one of the benefits of having to have a section is that the collatoral damage at the business end is avoided. So glad to hear your DH is smitten and being great. I totally get what you say about living in the moment, although that does start to change. For the past three or four weeks I have been able to start contemplating the future and make plans for seveeral days ahead!

Confused: Bloody hell. If I had a feather to hand I would knock myself down with it. I know from many practical points of view, it is expedient to wait, but my first thoughts are, you've made a blinking decision: GO GO GO! And actually, babies don't need fully decorated houses (phew!) and loads of stuff - they just need somewhere to sleep and permanent access to mummy / bottle. Loads of stuff and a safe house to trash come a bit later!

News from the YTD household is that our Eleanor slept through last night (8.30pm - 7.00am). She is now 15 weeks old and growing very rapidly - it's true what they say, it really does fly by. She makes lots of interesting noises now, and is attempting to sit up, which she can do with a little bit of support. She saves all her best smiles for daddy, and really perks up once he gets home from work, but I'm not really bothered by it, as I may not be quite so entertaining, but I am essential.

I am regaining some aspects of my old life and am starting to make plans about return to work / childcare options. This may be TMI, but DH and I finally resumed marital relations last week (co-incided with moving Eleanor to the big cot in her own room) and I have a whole new dilema to dither about: do I go back on the pill, or do we wing it and see what happens? After three months the veil of selective maternal amnesia fell and I started to think that perhaps another child wouldn't be a bad thing and, given that breast-feeding is supposed to be mildly contraceptive, and DH and I aren't bristling with fertility anyway, should we just try not bothering with contraception and see what happens? I can hardly believe I'm even asking the question, when a few short weeks ago I was adament that I'd never do this again, but it green all the way at the moment.

YTD! How wonderful to hear from you! You say that all ditherer babies ought to be called Eleanor well, I am not wanting to call one Eleanor but I am stuck on the name Nella - does that count?!

Thank you for the points about babies not needing fully decorated houses. I am in full agreement! I am also, as well as realising that this is probably One Of Those Things all parents say (which then backfires) they don't need much at all really. I think we do need to move first though as, say, we TTC now and it works first time (unlikely I realise but you know what sods law is like) and then find a buyer in 3 months, move in a further 3 and have less than 12 weeks to sort a house (and find the cash to do so, as well as the time.) Hence, the temporary wait - if only for the time being.

I would like to add that hearing about you and LST does get me going in the green department too! And seeing pics of both your babies adds to that (yes, really!)

So, it may be abandon contraception then...? I realise it took a long time to get pregnant in the first place and perhaps I would be as tempted too but, blimey! What if these little people are like busses etc etc...?! It's one extreme to another!

confused I think that would just be normal, half the people I know have moved house while very pg. Although that's all very well for me to say, obv!

I'm amused by the fact that because you are the OP on this thread, I see all your posts highlighted in green! It's very appropriate!

Calm down, YTD, gosh there's no stopping you once you get started is there! Are you sure it's not mad baby hormones making you want to breed like the Von Trapps?!

People may move house while very pregnant but I doubt that is something they'd choose! Plus, we are moving to somewhere which entails a hell of a lot of work, not just a simple case of painting.

YTD Von Trapp. Hmmm.....

I think I might be getting carried away by the possible economies of scale. And knowing that it took us ages the first time, I guess I just don't want to put any barriers in the way (quite literally). I don't think i'd be quite so sanguine if I thought I'd get pregnant straight away.

But I don't think I want our DD to be an only child, and I think I could love another child just as much, so am thinking why not? let's see what happens. Life couldn't alter as much as it has already.

Confused given your particular circumstances, it is probably sensible to wait, but I reckon you don't need to wait until major works are complete. I think the starting point should be once contracts are exchanged.

The exchange of keys is pencilled in as the TTC starting point, I think! But whenever that will be is anyones guess at the moment!

YTD I think that's lovely.

Me and DH have just booked a holiday to Cornwall. Staying in a 600 year old fishermans cottage with a 'huge' wood burner and right near the cliffs and sea. It was half price as we booked it last night and go on Saturday.

Hmmm, term time cheap holidays! In unsuitable for children cottages...! Lovely!

Confused even if you start TTC at exchange of keys, it will be years before you have to start taking holidays at school holiday time - that's not a valid excuse.

But enjoy it while you can... :)

Quick update - me and DH have made 'The Decision' and so are, ahem, shagging like rabbits.
If I think about it too much I freak out but, overall, am quite excited.
DH, on the other hand, is VERY excited and has (and this really shocked me!) already bought a pic while on holiday 'which would be nice in the nursery.' OMG!
House sale all going through fine so ought to be moved in 6 to 8 weeks at most. Hence we thought we'd get on the case sooner rather than later.
I never thought I'd be saying this! And I doubt anyone else who knows me thought it either!

I only just saw this. Confused that's smashing news, I'm really pleased to see another graduate on this thread. Sorry your fantastic announcement was met with total radio silence! You are still green I assume, no dithering back the other way since Friday?!

I'm particularly glad to hear that your DH is getting into the fatherhood zone, maybe there's hope for all DH's!