To TTC or not to TTC, that is one of the many questions...

[YorkshireTeaDrinker]

Ok fellow ditherers, as we have filled up one thread (and still not made too many firm decisions) here's another one for us to continue to procrastinate and worry on.

Here's to more monitoring of relative green and redness, mutual support and occassional chivving, discussion of everything baby or not baby related, and perhaps even our first BFP...?

Evening,
Right, I would never talk about this in RL, but I want to pick your brains HP re this pain business. I have come on about an hour ago and I cannot help but think it was linked to Monday's panting episode. Please tell me your theories as the symptoms I have are a bit too vague to Google, though they don't feel vague when they happen!

I would type more but I'll hang on for now as I bet half of the regular posters are probably asleep

Quick, while no-one is looking....

I've been having this for a long time, at least eight years. It starts on the day I start bleeding, when I wake up. It feels like a combination of a red hot poker and a massive muscle spasm. I start cold sweating, my head throbs and I try to ride the pain. If I can catch it quickly enough, and by that I mean going to the loo, it stops at that. If I don't, the pain stabs through my whole lower half. Agony doesn't really cover it.

The intensity of pain increases with how heavy I'm bleeding, and stops once the bleeding stops and I start my next packet.

The only advice my doc had a few years ago was to run my packets together, which I did do to decrease the frequency of incidents.

The fissure issue may be a red herring, as that seems to be more recent. But it may all be due to the fissure, which is known to be the third worse bowel pain you can have, after cancer and suchlike.

Frankly, I have no clue. For a time I worried it might be endometriosis, given the link to the bleeding. If it was the fissure, wouldn't I get the pain throughout the month?

To be honest, I'm going to have to go back to the docs. I'll see what happens this month, but it's been pretty bad the last few months.

Bit distracted - our wedding venue is on telly! (Michael Winner thing on ITV - hasten to add that someone told us it was on, we didn't tune in regardless!)

Your pain sounds worse than mine, mine is far shorter and less regular. While it's very intense when it happens, it's also only for a mere 20 mins or so - although the description sounds very similar (and yes, having a, ahem, poo helps a bit as it feels like everthing is throbbing with pain.)

Curiouser and curiouser said Alice...

Back after the hideous Michael Winner thing -would love to shove his smug face in a blender but the venue he's in is top

That's exciting (the wedding venue on telly, not MW!!).

The pain normally lasts as long as it takes to get to the loo from waking up and the spasms starting. It's normally less than ten mins if I go quick!!

One doc suggested IBS, but I have no constipation or diarrhoea, so it doesn't really fit. I would just like it to Go Away!

It's crazy we may have the same problem!

Am back with you - our venue is now off so I don't have to look or listen to Michael Winner any more!

Thanks for the info, I'd be interested to hear whatever else is said or investigated - but obviously understand if you don't fancy sharing it too!

LQ so the NHS date things don't tally then? Weird. You'd have thought that someone would have spotted that wouldn't you? Bit of a school girl question here, but your date of conception isn't an actual given is it, as you can ovulate at any time (although it's normally in the middle of the cycle.) I say this as when we did sex education at school they told us how we could get pregnant during periods etc. On this basis, could you be a few weeks more or less than they, as in the NHS, predict?

Cross posted!

Yes, went all nostalgic seeing our wedding venue on t'telly! I still miss having our wedding to plan and get excited about and it's nearly two years ago now (sad bugger I am.)

At this point I'd be prepared to try anything to stop it! If coming off the pill makes it worse, I'm going back on it, quick smart. It would be unendurable all the time.

Ooo, we cross posted again!

I don't blame you. It sounds crippling!

Still, no sign of it at the moment - hurrah!

Oooh, wonder if it stays that way. Will be weird if coming off the pill makes it go away...

It's worth a try. I guess I will find out in a couple of weeks time. Fingers crossed!

Morning all,

HP & Confused, now of course I am no Dr and I don't want to diagnose but certainly the symptoms that HP describes do sound (to me as I have been there) as endometriosis. The reason that I say that is because you mention it being relieved a bit by going to the loo and the type of pain and the fact that it comes monthly makes me think that too.

Sorry if this gets a bit TMI for anyone but the cells that grow when you have endometriosis can also grow outside of the womb, in fallopian tubes and even attach to the bowel. This can cause inflammation which is where the pain comes from.

Confused what is even stranger about endo is that how developed/ extensive/ bad the cells are it doesn't always correspond to how much pain you are in. So for me I started to have endo when I was 16! It took a long time to get a diagnosis (which I know a lot of endo suffers feel happens) but i think the delay was moreso because of my age and people thinking it was just my cycle settling, given my age.

It wasn't properly diagnosed until I had a laparoscopy as the other sneeky thing about it is that it sometimes does/ doesn't show up on internal ultrasounds.

reading back through this I don't want to and have worried you both but have either of your doctors ever mentioned that this is what it could be?

There is some info here www.endometriosis-uk.org/index.html

which might be quite useful. Def think you should both go back to the Dr to get some more advice.

Confused re my NHS date thing, I am quietly peed off! The 2 diff calculators were both from the NHS website, one is a calculator on the website and the other is in this program that you can download onto your desk book to look at developing pregnancy week by week. Both were calculated using the first date of my LMP but one came up with 6 weeks (online calc) and the programme can up with 7 weeks. Have tried to reset in and input dates again in case i made a mistake but it just makes the same calculation. sigh.

Morning!
Taking the dog out now but will check out that link in a bit - thanks LQ!

LQ I think the variation depends on how much infoyou put in. The NHS CHoices website online calculator gives me a due date of 8th November and says i am 6 weeks pregnant. My fertility friend calculator (and the GP) has me with a due date of 6th November and 7 weeks pregnant. That's because most calculations are based on a standard cycle length of 28 days, where as the NHS Choices calculator asks you to specify your usual cycle length. That might explain the discrepancy?

Confused / HP sounds like a pretty grim condition. I think you should ask the docs to check for endometriousis, especially given that there's an outside chance you may want to start procreating at some point and endo can get in the way of that.

I'm off to the kitchen shop today to get a quote for having the kitchen done. It is a bit scary contemplating taking out more debt when my income is going to drop for a year, but not half a scary as teh prospect of trying to manage a baby and live with the scanky mess that is our current kitchen!

Shit. I just had a look at that website, and I'm afraid what I described yesterday matches up to a lot of the symptoms. Right. I'm making an appointment with the gynae specialist GP at my practice for ASAP. Oh bugger. I assumed this was a bowel problem, because that's where the pain is centred.

Ok. I'm not going to worry because I need to speak to a doctor, and try to get a diagnosis, but no matter what I want a referal to someone, as clearly I've let this ride for too long. Even if I'm prodded and poked, someone is having a look up there to see what's going on. If this is the problem a) I'm a bit angry that all my docs have done nothing, and b) coming off the pill probably isn't going to make any difference, is it?

What are you going to do, Confused?

Had my third high temp today. Fertility Friend thinks I ovulated, on Day 9. Seems a bit quick. But I'm not complaining. Will keep temping and see what happens.

Hmm, I am not convinced either way re endometriosis. I get pain, acute, occasionally but only lasting a short amount of time in the middle of the night (usually) and have very light periods (well, quite light.) I can't work out if I am assuming it must be endometriosis as I cannot fathom what else it can be, but also am not sure what I have is often enough or regular enough to make it worth a trip to the doc's. As I said, I have mentioned it twice before and they didn't seem too fussed either way but maybe that is due to, after the event (as in the middle of the night gaspyness) it doesn't seem that big a deal. It's not like it infringes on my life, as such, it's just an occasional short burst of nastyness. HP, you situation is waaaaay more severe than mine.

All of a quandry now.

This is naughty I know, but the doc's are under the impression we are currently TTC anyway so wonder if the occassional pain combined with lack of pregnancy may make them more likely to investigate? (I didn't tell them we are putting it on hold due to dithering and cash as it didn't seem right still going to the pre natal appointments if it was only for curious reasons.) I am thinking that it might make them more likely to check things out sooner rather than later as I am notm yet, pregnant whereas normally my doc's are a bit apathetic (they'd prescribe painkillers and send you on your way.)

HP one last thing - and sorry if I have already said this but can't be arsed reading through - when I came off the pill my real cycle was no different to my pilled up cycle so you may well have a similar scenario going on. (I had no spotting or anything either.)

YTD good luck with the kitchen shopping! We went to a fabulous reclaim place the other day and now can't wait to get stuck into our next house. Have been sneakily taking pics of what we like so we can emulate it when the time comes. It can't come soon enough!

I think it's worth going along and having a consultation. What do you have to lose? I am definitely going to make an appointment, as I can't ignore how many of my symptoms match up. It even says on that website LQ directed us to (thank goodness!) that you might faint with the pain - which I did. I always thought it was weird it happens mostly when I'm bleeding. Call myself a scientist? Why have I not looked more into this, even to rule it out?

Bit scared about the word 'infertile'.

Bloody hell. My appointment letter hasn't even come through for the dermatologist, and now this!

Have you found a new kitchen yet, YTD?

Hey HP

The last thing I wanted to do was worry you - sorry, its just I thought it better to give you the details of that site so at least you could have a look. I think it at least allows your to arm yourself with some info before seeing the docs as they can sometimes be a bit shit apathetic.

I know its easy for me to say too, but please try not to worry about the infertile thing, its a long long way down the worse case scenario road and there is lots and lots they can do either by taking the pill, other medication to shrink & get rid of the endo cells. Also they can send you for a laparoscopy to have the endo removed so its not at all a finality. i have had people telling me since i was 16 that I might have problems getting pregnant and look at what's happened now! I was also pregnant when I was about 21 but had a v early miscarriage.

I am watching Harry Potter at the moment, this sounds terrible but it is about as scary a film as I can take (and even then at certain points I have to look away from the screen.)

YTD yes, thats the same calculator that I used - i think on both you could specify cycle length and i used 28 days (although not 100% sure that is how long my cycle is) and it came up different - strange! Also more news in the appointment front, I got my appointment letter yesterday from the midwife (19/4) and the scan at Kings (28/4).

Hows your kitchen shopping going? I love that kind of stuff - how exciting!

I am signed off still at the moment, have another week off next week but would probably like to go back the week after. Things are still a mess there but having met with my boss last week I think they may have realised the pressure I was under, so that feels like a big relief.

Don't worry, you shouldn't apologise for trying to help and motivating me to finally go to the doctors and insist on some investigations. I'm a firm believer in that it's better to know the truth about health stuff. Yes, I am a bit worried now, but not in a over-the-top way as there is no diagnosis yet. I will fully arm myself with the information from that site and take it to the doctors appointment. Hopefully things will be done from there. Even if it isn't endometriosis, it is something that needs looking at because it's quite awful. So, thanks.

The infertility thing is making me think though. I felt awful when I read that. I guess like everyone, I don't want options taken away, even as a hard core ditherer.

Hope you get your due dates sorted, and it's exciting to get your other appointment dates through.

I watched Harry Potter too - they all looked so cute and little!

Ok cool.

I know, bless, they are all so young!

I guess you are right, I have nothing to loose so maybe I too ought to go and ask a few questions. I shall be sneaky though and not let on that we are not TTC - the last time I was there the (crap) nurse who was doing my diabetes check up's was going on and on about how I'd get pregnant if I relax, need to go on holiday and also asked me at least twice if it was stressing me out that I wasn't pregnant. It must be written very clearly on my notes as the woman seems obsessed with it (urging me to take a urine sample to them for the test, and reassuring me, unprompted, that it 'won't be long' now.) Iffy as this may be, I'd rather they thought that still as it may mean them less dismissive of my rather less dramatic than HP's symptoms. It has gone on for ages for me too, first happened when I was living with S so at least 8 years ago, so maybe best to get investigated.

Am sat at home at the moment drinking wine and feeling fed up with myself. I really need to lose weight, really need to but just can't be arsed. I do lots of exercise and eat pretty well and just don't want to give up the things I really enjoy (late night cheese and biscuits over a glass or two of wine, or several pints in the pub) which must be putting on the weight big time. Forgive the me-me-meing again but this helps... I honestly do look like Hannah Waterman before she did her weight loss stuff - the pic that was everywhere of her in a bikini with her belly hung out and I HATE it. I have both back and front fat, no muscle tone at all and revolting bingo wings and thighs that rub at the top. Oh, and a double chin. Super. I can start running and things again but being diabetic I do need to have enough carbohydrate to stop me passing out before I go so don't really burn off the reserves, and talking of diabetic stuff, insulin also makes you put on weight (one of the ironies of being diabetic, as being fat and diabetic is very bad but insulin can make you put on the weight.) However, who am I kidding, I must be like this as I eat and drink too much booze - and the older you get the easier it is to get on but harder it is to get off. Fucking great.

Cheers

Just read post - would like to say I don't eat too much booze, I eat too much and drink too much booze.

That's cleared that up then.

Blimey, that nurse sounds a bit keen. Bless her, she probably thought she was being really supportive and encouraging, rather than a bit intense, five more minutes and she might have offered to come and watch you, check you were 'doing it right'. I think giving the impression you are still TTC certainly wouldn't hurt, and it's not like you are still on the pill. If you have the pain and it's being going on for years, you have every right to be checked out.

I told DH that I was Internet hunting and am going to see the doc because I'm concerned that the pain may be endometriosis. He is a bit worried but glad I'm going to see someone, as he has seen (some) of what I go through.

Confused. I've seen the photos, you are lovely. I'm sure you are not fat at all, it's just this time of year we all pile on the pounds - it's after Christmas, it's cold and boring, we crave heavy warming food. And who feels like dieting and exercising now? And the cliche is totally true, it is easier to retain weight and harder to lose it in your thirties . I don't think many people can maintain triathalon levels of health and fitness in the long term, it could just be that you will find a balance that works for you. But don't be too hard on yourself, or you'll have me to deal with (or even YTD, and you don't want her telling you off, it's scary!).

Lovely of you to say HP but the pics you have seen were a while ago and also, and perhaps more of a big deal, I got FATTER when training! And now the fat has gone looser as lost muscle tone! If I was swimming (and bear in in mind I needed to do a mile) I had to have a sarnie, a banana and usually a Snickers both before and after - hence I put it on. It's lovely for you to say, but trust me, I ain't being silly. I wish I bloody was!

Yes, the nurse is more than keen. She is absolutely crap as far as diabetes is concerned but she is nice with her crapness which makes it harder to tell her how awful she is. (She told me to increase my insulin if I went hypo the last time I saw her and when I asked her to repeat that strange bit og advice realised her mistake and said 'no, DEcrease not increase - increase could kill you!' Thank god one of us knows what they are doing!

Right, I shall make an appointment and I am blaming you. Weird that I brought it up and you are the one who actually has the problem that sounds as if it infringes on your life!