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Conception

When's the best time to get pregnant? Use our interactive ovulation calculator to work out when you're most fertile and most likely to conceive.

Just MC'd .. Come and join us for the long haul (newbies always welcome!) - Vol 3

999 replies

LeeWT · 14/01/2010 21:48

Hi all, old and new, this is the thread where all moaning, pieces of tmi, discussions and virtual cups of tea and biscuits come together to keep us sane .. or at the least insane together!

OP posts:
Thirdtimeluckypleasexx · 01/02/2010 10:19

Thanks sarah still thinking

liahgen66 · 01/02/2010 11:40

just rep[osting this morning list asI'd gon to day 2 and am now 4. Can you check your CD is correct please.

vivcliquot TTC#1 UCL27 cycle 2 CD31
RunForTheHills TTC#1 UCL30 cycle 13 CD30
sunburntats TTC#2 UCL28 cycle 1 CD28
MrsGazebo TTC#1 UCL27 cycle 1 CD26
Hopefully TTC#2 UCL27 cycle 2 CD24
Tetleytea TTC#2 UCL28 cycle 2 CD23
effilump TTC#5 UCL28 cycle 1 CD21
Barrenbrook TTC#1 UCL28 cycle 10 (post m/c) CD21
samanthab123 TTC#3 UCL28 cycle 2 CD20
Cheepz TTC#2 UCL28 cycle WTF#2 CD19
Underneaththestream TTC#1 UCL ? cycle WTF CD19
Zayja TTC#1 UCL24-26 cycle 10 CD18
Sarahlou TTC#3 UCL27 cycle 2 CD17
Tigerbear TTC#1 UCL26 cycle 6 CD13
Tigger15 TTC#2 UCL31 cycle 8 CD14
SarahMumtoAlex TTC#2 UCL28 Cycle 5 CD12
lucyt66 TTC#1 UCL34 cycle 2 CD12
northlondonchoclover TTC#1 UCL28 cycle WTF CD6
Liahgen66 TTC#6 UCL26 cycle 1 (post mc) CD4
fedupandhateful TTC#2 UCL28 cycle 1 CD?
goodluckbear TTC#1 UCL28 cycle WTF CD?
keevamum TTC#3 UCL? cycle? CD?
lulabell79 TTC#? UCL? cycle? CD?
westyorkshiregirl TTC#? UCL? cycle? CD?
dirtgirl TTC#? UCL? cycle? CD?

WTTC
Justbeenforapromenade
Fingerscrossedlegsopen

GRADUATES
amyboo
totally
hoops997 BFP 11 July 2009
Stressy BFP 22nd August 2009
becky78 BFP 4th September 2009
LittleOneMum BFP 7th September 2009
Waitingisntfun BFP 19th September 2009
Chamois BFP 7th October 2009
Apples BFP 9th November 2009
Meita BFP 10th December 2009
CakeandFineWine BFP 27th December 2009
boodleboot BFP 2nd January 2010
Jollster BFP 10th January 2010
LeeWT BFP 21st January 2010
TFLS BFP 22nd January 2010
Louisesh BFP 22nd January 2010
MrsRigby BFP 27th January 2010
TheKurgan BFP 30th January 2010

Goodluckbear · 01/02/2010 11:46

Hey Thirdtime - - I wish they had an emoticon for a big hug.

Liah - yeah, February is here, perhaps they should also do an emoticon for "onwards and upwards".

I'd also like some emoticons that fully express the following:

  • annoyance (mixed with amusement) that DH sorts out photo albums for 2 hours as his contribution to the housework
  • exasperation that family are an hour late for lunch (why? why?)
  • wry smile as PMT sets in

xxxxxxxxxx

VivClicquot · 01/02/2010 12:16

Morning gals xx

Definitely think it's game over for me. Brown CM is getting heavier, so I think AF will arrive tomorrow, as expected.

Was absolutely gutted about it last night, but am very much in the onwards and upwards frame of mind this morning.

So much so, in fact, that I'm going to book a holiday today. Given our first lost baby should have been due 10 days ago and the second was due in May, I just think that DH and I need to think of the next few months as 'bonus time' in which we can do loads of amazing stuff together that we wouldn't have been able to do if either pregnancy had worked out. So am planning lots and lots of holidays / mini breaks and all sorts of lovely stuff, hopefully before our luck changes for the better.

Leah - Cheepz is right, it will get better but in the meantime, feel free to rant and rave on here as much as you want as we do all understand.

I know what you mean about the cremation knocking you for six - we decided to bury our second baby as we lost her at 13 weeks, and receiving the letter from the funeral home made it really 'real'. However, as tough as it was, I know that having the funeral really helped part of the grieving process, and I like the fact that we have somewhere to go and remember her. (I went to the cemetary yesterday actually, as I was feelin down about my impending AF, and it's nice just to have a peaceful place to reflect on stuff)

Third - I think you should get yourself to A&E hon. I doubt that they would turn you away?

Hi to everyone else, especially slummymummy

I'm off to buy a Clearblue Fertility Monitor so expect lots of questions from me over the next few weeks about that!

Much love,
Viv xxx

Hopefully · 01/02/2010 12:18

So sorry liahgen - no idea how I managed to move you back a day.

I've checked the list and I think it was a one off slip up, the rest looks ok.

louisesh · 01/02/2010 13:21

Hi All....Sorry LIAH know exactely what you mean i ve had 2 MCs , 1 ERPC and it takes a LONG time to work through it, not get over it.Take care of yourself.

Hi to newcomers

Congrats KURGAN

THIRDTIME fingers crossed hope you know 1 way or the other soon, the not knowing is awful isn t it?

I m fine had a lovely weekend and all being well will be back on line tonight YEH!!!!

RunForTheHills · 01/02/2010 16:31

AF got me yesterday but no suprise.

so cycle 14 and CD2 - MrsR can you do the honours please (daren't risk messing up the list )

I claim first dibs on March BFP

Dirtgirl · 01/02/2010 17:09

Thirdtime, I went to UCH today and got seen after about an hour's wait. I'd got no appointment. Are you near London, could you do the same? They'll give you a scan.

My outcome was that it was a miscarriage and I'm not pg anymore. I'm just glad it is all over.

Dirtgirl · 01/02/2010 17:13

Just backtracked Thirdtime, you've had bad experiences at UCH. I found them fine today.

SarahMumtoAlex · 01/02/2010 17:28

Dirtgirl sorry to hear your news. Though I understand the feeling of relief at knowing one way or another, its still hard

welcome slummymummy though once again sorry that you had to be here.

And sorry your still here run (in the nicest possible way)

I'm in an optomistic mood today, mid cycle, good ov symptoms, DH and I have been SWI and even work is looking up

thefatladyscreams · 01/02/2010 19:09

dirtgirl sorry to hear it's been confirmed. Hope you're holding up Ok tonight? Even though I was sure I was miscarrying, it still hurt to hear it officially. Take care.

slummymummy - welcome, glad you found us. It is a horrible time. I found this thread the second day into my m/c and it's been a life saver ever since. Tears, fears, insanity and hope equally shared! How are you doing now?

SarahMumtoAlex glad things are looking up.

Run sorry AF got you. The request for a March BFP is duly noted [TFLS rushes off to find a legal disclaimer!]

Louisesh glad you're doing well. Any symptoms yet?

MrsR - I'm exhausted too, not helped by being unable to sleep and permanently cold (not that I'm complaining too). Maybe MrR is coming down with some pregnancy related sympathy condition. Get him to the doctors or the deflee powder!

VivC - sorry the witch sounds on her way. If anyone deserves a holiday, you two do. Make it a good one! Love your philosophy. I used a CBFM and found it great (once I'd recovered from the price). Not a cheap business, this TTC!

Sunburntats any news?

Third - I'd make a fuss. It does seem so unreasonable to make you wait until Friday. Do you feel up to going to your A&E? Must be hard with your DP away - thinking of you.

Goodluckbear - love the emoticon wish list. Can you imagine a SWI one

Hopefully you are officially a POAS addict!

Cheepz - TCM says to keep nice and toastie in the second half of your cycle so hope you're whacking up that heating!

Liahgen - so sorry you're feeling so low. It is horrible how the grief can rise up and bite you on the bum. One day you're Ok and the next it hits you. But it's still early days and hopefully it will start to ease. Scream away on here and we'll all hold your hand.

Allthe8s · 01/02/2010 19:19

Hi ladies

Glad I have found you......can I join?

Lost DD2 in May last year (@21 weeks) had loads of tests (all normal - just bad luck) and waited 6 months patiently before ttc again, got the green light fell pg but had a mmc at 6 weeks, had erpc last weekend

Had a few really bad days but am doing ok today. Hoping to TTC once things get back to normal cycle wise.

Wishing all you ladies well x

MrsRigby · 01/02/2010 21:17

Monday's updated list:

vivcliquot TTC#1 UCL27 cycle 2 CD31
sunburntats TTC#2 UCL28 cycle 1 CD28
MrsGazebo TTC#1 UCL27 cycle 1 CD26
Hopefully TTC#2 UCL27 cycle 2 CD24
Tetleytea TTC#2 UCL28 cycle 2 CD23
effilump TTC#5 UCL28 cycle 1 CD21
Barrenbrook TTC#1 UCL28 cycle 10 (post m/c) CD21
samanthab123 TTC#3 UCL28 cycle 2 CD20
Cheepz TTC#2 UCL28 cycle WTF#2 CD19
Underneaththestream TTC#1 UCL ? cycle WTF CD19
Zayja TTC#1 UCL24-26 cycle 10 CD18
Sarahlou TTC#3 UCL27 cycle 2 CD17
Tigerbear TTC#1 UCL26 cycle 6 CD15
Tigger15 TTC#2 UCL31 cycle 8 CD14
SarahMumtoAlex TTC#2 UCL28 Cycle 5 CD12
lucyt66 TTC#1 UCL34 cycle 2 CD12
northlondonchoclover TTC#1 UCL28 cycle WTF CD6
Liahgen66 TTC#6 UCL26 cycle 1 (post mc) CD4
RunForTheHills TTC#1 UCL30 cycle 14 CD2

fedupandhateful TTC#2 UCL28 cycle 1 CD?
goodluckbear TTC#1 UCL28 cycle WTF CD?
keevamum TTC#3 UCL? cycle? CD?
lulabell79 TTC#? UCL? cycle? CD?
westyorkshiregirl TTC#? UCL? cycle? CD?
dirtgirl TTC#? UCL? cycle? CD?
allthe8s TTC#? UCL? cycle? CD?

WTTC
Justbeenforapromenade
Fingerscrossedlegsopen

GRADUATES
amyboo
totally
hoops997 BFP 11 July 2009
Stressy BFP 22nd August 2009
becky78 BFP 4th September 2009
LittleOneMum BFP 7th September 2009
Waitingisntfun BFP 19th September 2009
Chamois BFP 7th October 2009
Apples BFP 9th November 2009
Meita BFP 10th December 2009
CakeandFineWine BFP 27th December 2009
boodleboot BFP 2nd January 2010
Jollster BFP 10th January 2010
LeeWT BFP 21st January 2010
TFLS BFP 22nd January 2010
Louisesh BFP 22nd January 2010
MrsRigby BFP 27th January 2010
TheKurgan BFP 30th January 2010

thefatladyscreams · 01/02/2010 22:11

Allthe8s - welcome on board. You sound like you've had an incredibly tough year or two - so sorry for your losses. But lovely to have you here.

LeeWT · 01/02/2010 22:12

hi all, sorry i havent been on in a while, big congrats to any bfps i missed!!

allthe8s how devastating that must have been to lose your little one and then been hit with an mmc. lots of the lovely ladies here have experienced more than one loss and i have to say sometimes when times have been hard, i'd have been lost without their misunderstanding and expertise.

liah and dirtgirl sorry things are so hard for you right now..

viv i think you maybe said it wasnt over for me til af came and in the end she didnt! you never know! and if not the holidays are DEF the way to go. i love little weekend breaks away though they are awful for the waistband!

As for me, my beloved nanna died peacefully yesterday morning to the tunes of Frank Sinatra. It's hard to describe to people who havent known her just what a personality she was. she could drink any of us under the table, drank a few pints of guinness in the local most nights, loved jazz, swore like a sailor and was the best thing ever to happen to me as she always looked after me. I'm gutted she's gone and that i can never talk to her again and it was very very hard being pregnant and hormonal and vulnerable when people dont know. But I asked her to look after my baby and hopefully she is..

I was supposed to have a scan this thursday but that's the day of the funeral mass so they next appointment they could give me wasnt until the following Thursday (my nanna's birthday) lets hope its lucky!

xxx

OP posts:
thefatladyscreams · 01/02/2010 22:17

Lee - was just about to log off but saw your name pop up and wanted to check how you were. Your nanna sounds like one hell of a character - she must leave a big hole. I'm sure she'll be looking down on you and your little bean. Will be thinking of you on both Thursdays. xxx

MrsRigby · 01/02/2010 22:17

Evening

thirdtimeluckypleasexx it's discusting how long you have to wait for a simple scan . In a perfect world, we should be able to just walk into an EPU and have one done. Unfortuately, we're dealing with the NHS and all it's stupid rules.

hopefully DH told me in the car (after buying yet another Clearblue digital pregnancy test) the other day that I'm addicted to POAS - it's true, even now I'm pregnant I'm still doing it . Did a normal Clearblue the other day so that I could look at the + . Also because with DS I used a Clearblue and we all know how that went - now a gorgeous 15 month old. With DC#2 I used an ASDA and miscarried, suffice to say I'll not be using them again. Going to pee on a Clearblue Digital again on Wednesday, hopefully the conception indicator will go up from 1-2 weeks to 2-3 weeks - very reassuring until the 12 week scan.

vivclicquot really hoping that's not the case. Still got my fingers crossed for you. Really good idea using the time from now until you get pregnant as bonus time, to do loads of stuff together that you can't when you have a child. DH and I never really went out that often before DS, but when we found out I was pregnant, we went out almost twice a week as we knew when DS was born we wouldn't be able to do a lot of stuff.

I still wonder occasionally if I did the right thing signing the cremation form and should I have had him/her done privately. At the time I just thought that he/she was dead and if it was cremated with all the other babies that at least it wouldn't be lonely and would have company to wherever the souls go.

Yes I know, bizzare line of thought.

I just hope that he/she was definitely dead and that wherever it is now, is not alone and knows how much I loved and wanted him/her.

Bugger, DS is crying his eyes out and he's not the only one .

Bad luck this time runforthehills, better luck for March.

Sorry to hear that dirtgirl .

I'm feezing cold too thefatladyscreams, got a blanket wrapped around me all the time. You still wearing your Slanket boodleboot .

Welcome allthe8s - 21 weeks, jesus that must have been really hard. So tragic. So sorry.

Right, I'm off to bed - very tired.

P.S. If anyone is thinking of baking muffins and thinks they can do it without a muffin tray, DON'T.

MrsRigby · 01/02/2010 22:21

leewt I'm so sorry to hear about your nan. May she rest in peace.

Good luck next Thursday also, I'll be thinking of you and keeping my fingers crossed.

Cheepz · 01/02/2010 22:27

allthe8s hello, welcome, sorry you have found your way here, 21 weeks must have been devastating, and then to have mc after waiting so long to start trying

You can start trying as soon as you are ready this time around so hop on board.

viv sorry to hear about your brown CM [!!] does seem like that would be a monthly visitor, was hoping for you, probably good that you'd not tested, not writing you off completely for this cycle though, stranger things have happened, happy to give CBFM tips too! I love it, takes all the guessing away.

tfls glad things are going well, thanks for the update on everyones status saves me reading back too far! I do plan to keep warm - but mostly because I am a wuss about cold weather! We are entering 2ww territory as the monitor is now back to Low and will remain so for the rest of the cycle. Not sure whats going to happen but we had a good time on Friday night!!! and given this was my cycle for a little more laissez faire in terms of attitude I am trying to maintain that

runfor haven't 'seen' you in a while but nice to see you there, even if you are at the bottom of the leaderboard, bad luck hon, lets hope for next time, and here we have been banging on about long servers and you are cycle 14 and haven't had much of a mention, more power to you lady

dirtgirl confirmation is always good, gives you some degree of closure and allows you to move on, but difficult all the same {{{{hugs}}}}

third hope you have managed to get some medical support and resolve what is going on with you, you sound in such a pickle, try and be calm and put yourself first. If you need to be pushy, be pushy - if you need someone else to be pushy feel free to let me know and I will come and be pushy on your behalf any excuse to wade in with my size 8's (I know big feet, but I am 5'10'')

sarahMTA optimism is good, SWI is also good especially given where you are in the cycle enjoy!

Liah thinking of you so much right now in the dark days. Much love and warm thoughts of support and empathy coming your way. xxxx

Right I am sure I have missed peeps so sorry about that, Boods hows things, read on other thread you were off colour, am thinking of you. Lee hope you are ok too after Nana passed. Love to you and yours.

I am managing to not get too worked up so far, too early to symptom spot and not 'on it' enough this month and still only been 2 and a half weeks since mc so not feeling ike 'nothings happeneing'. Also don't have that yearning to be pregnant again as soon as possible like the first time which is a relief as that made me feel totally out of control.

Off to bed soon as DS has been poorly so weaned himself back on to waking in the night and demanding me and milk be present until he goes back to sleep, but now he is better we are back on no milk after bedtime which means for a few nights he will wake up and be really pissed off when I wont give him milk and will want me to be in the room, asleep on the trundle to get him back to sleep. But then once he is off the milk he will stop waking up - its not worth his while for water - so we will be back to sleeping through and I can spend all night in my own bed and not be rudely awakened at 3 normally (although 1 last night which was like torture as I had only been asleep for 90 mins). Just in time for our next trip away for a week which will throw it all out again .... and I want to do this to myself again why ???

clareanna · 01/02/2010 23:04

Hi ladies, what a supportive thread and a lovely bunch you are, I was wondering if I could join you all? A bit about me- I had an mmc at 12 weeks and an ERPC on fri 15th jan. Reading some of your posts has really given me hope that I didn't think I would ever have so soon. I have a DS who is 2.8 and was so excited about this pregnancy, was completely shocked and devastated by miscarriage. On top of that a week ago my husband was made redundant- so although we're supposed to be TTC it feels very scary.
Was just looking at your stats and have worked out that if my WTF cycle mirrors a normal one, I should be ovulating now (CD18) better go and get my best pants on.... [smiles]
TTC #2 UCL 35 CD 18

Thirdtimeluckypleasexx · 01/02/2010 23:31

Hi, went to A & E and they did another HCG - miscarried over the weekend Will be back on soon just need a little R & R xxx

Good luck BFP's xx

MrsRigby · 02/02/2010 08:12

Welcome clareanna.

Oh thirdtimeluckypleasexx I'm so sorry, we're all here for you .

MrsRigby · 02/02/2010 08:14

Tuesday's list:

vivcliquot TTC#1 UCL27 cycle 2 CD32
sunburntats TTC#2 UCL28 cycle 1 CD29
MrsGazebo TTC#1 UCL27 cycle 1 CD27
Hopefully TTC#2 UCL27 cycle 2 CD25
Tetleytea TTC#2 UCL28 cycle 2 CD24
effilump TTC#5 UCL28 cycle 1 CD22
Barrenbrook TTC#1 UCL28 cycle 10 (post m/c) CD22
samanthab123 TTC#3 UCL28 cycle 2 CD21
Cheepz TTC#2 UCL28 cycle WTF#2 CD20
Underneaththestream TTC#1 UCL ? cycle WTF CD20
Zayja TTC#1 UCL24-26 cycle 10 CD19
Sarahlou TTC#3 UCL27 cycle 2 CD18
Tigerbear TTC#1 UCL26 cycle 6 CD16
Tigger15 TTC#2 UCL31 cycle 8 CD15
SarahMumtoAlex TTC#2 UCL28 Cycle 5 CD13
lucyt66 TTC#1 UCL34 cycle 2 CD13
northlondonchoclover TTC#1 UCL28 cycle WTF CD7
Liahgen66 TTC#6 UCL26 cycle 1 (post mc) CD5
RunForTheHills TTC#1 UCL30 cycle 14 CD3

fedupandhateful TTC#2 UCL28 cycle 1 CD?
goodluckbear TTC#1 UCL28 cycle WTF CD?
keevamum TTC#3 UCL? cycle? CD?
lulabell79 TTC#? UCL? cycle? CD?
westyorkshiregirl TTC#? UCL? cycle? CD?
dirtgirl TTC#? UCL? cycle? CD?
allthe8s TTC#? UCL? cycle? CD?

WTTC
Justbeenforapromenade
Fingerscrossedlegsopen

GRADUATES
amyboo
totally
hoops997 BFP 11 July 2009
Stressy BFP 22nd August 2009
becky78 BFP 4th September 2009
LittleOneMum BFP 7th September 2009
Waitingisntfun BFP 19th September 2009
Chamois BFP 7th October 2009
Apples BFP 9th November 2009
Meita BFP 10th December 2009
CakeandFineWine BFP 27th December 2009
boodleboot BFP 2nd January 2010
Jollster BFP 10th January 2010
LeeWT BFP 21st January 2010
TFLS BFP 22nd January 2010
Louisesh BFP 22nd January 2010
MrsRigby BFP 27th January 2010
TheKurgan BFP 30th January 2010

MrsRigby · 02/02/2010 08:16

Tuesday's list:

vivcliquot TTC#1 UCL27 cycle 2 CD32
sunburntats TTC#2 UCL28 cycle 1 CD29
MrsGazebo TTC#1 UCL27 cycle 1 CD27
Hopefully TTC#2 UCL27 cycle 2 CD25
Tetleytea TTC#2 UCL28 cycle 2 CD24
effilump TTC#5 UCL28 cycle 1 CD22
Barrenbrook TTC#1 UCL28 cycle 10 (post m/c) CD22
samanthab123 TTC#3 UCL28 cycle 2 CD21
Cheepz TTC#2 UCL28 cycle WTF#2 CD20
Underneaththestream TTC#1 UCL ? cycle WTF CD20
Zayja TTC#1 UCL24-26 cycle 10 CD19
clareanna TTC#2 UCL35 cycle WTF CD19
Sarahlou TTC#3 UCL27 cycle 2 CD18
Tigerbear TTC#1 UCL26 cycle 6 CD16
Tigger15 TTC#2 UCL31 cycle 8 CD15
SarahMumtoAlex TTC#2 UCL28 Cycle 5 CD13
lucyt66 TTC#1 UCL34 cycle 2 CD13
northlondonchoclover TTC#1 UCL28 cycle WTF CD7
Liahgen66 TTC#6 UCL26 cycle 1 (post mc) CD5
RunForTheHills TTC#1 UCL30 cycle 14 CD3

fedupandhateful TTC#2 UCL28 cycle 1 CD?
goodluckbear TTC#1 UCL28 cycle WTF CD?
keevamum TTC#3 UCL? cycle? CD?
lulabell79 TTC#? UCL? cycle? CD?
westyorkshiregirl TTC#? UCL? cycle? CD?
dirtgirl TTC#? UCL? cycle? CD?
allthe8s TTC#? UCL? cycle? CD?

WTTC
Justbeenforapromenade
Fingerscrossedlegsopen

GRADUATES
amyboo
totally
hoops997 BFP 11 July 2009
Stressy BFP 22nd August 2009
becky78 BFP 4th September 2009
LittleOneMum BFP 7th September 2009
Waitingisntfun BFP 19th September 2009
Chamois BFP 7th October 2009
Apples BFP 9th November 2009
Meita BFP 10th December 2009
CakeandFineWine BFP 27th December 2009
boodleboot BFP 2nd January 2010
Jollster BFP 10th January 2010
LeeWT BFP 21st January 2010
TFLS BFP 22nd January 2010
Louisesh BFP 22nd January 2010
MrsRigby BFP 27th January 2010
TheKurgan BFP 30th January 2010

liahgen66 · 02/02/2010 09:38

Hi all

lee I am so sorry to hear about your nana. You must feel devastated. I wish my kids had a nan like yours she sounds fab. I'm sure she'll look out for your lo and together they'll look out for you.

Hope Thursday goes as well as it can. (((())))

clare welcome, we're a nice lot on here.

third I am really really sorry to hear about your lo too. Take as much time as you need, we'll still be here. I found I thought I wanted time off here but to be honest it's a bit of a lifeline sometimes when people in the real world think you should get over it and move on, not everyone understands and it's nice to just sit here and rant or read or even just cry. ((()))

Ok so we were gonna have sex last night but by the time dh had finished working it wa gone midnigt and I was so knackered and dozing on sofa. I was a bit annoyed with him to be honest cos am really panicking that i'll miss the boat. Please someone slap me and remind me am only day 5 today so no way have I missed the boat. We're gonna start tonight and go for the every other day, worked last time so fingers crossed.

I just feel so desperate to fall straight away, I know I am gonna be so disappointed if it doesn't happen. I know I'm setting myself up for a fall but I really can't help it.

aaagggghhhhh

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