To TTC or not to TTC, that is the question... as Hamlet sort of said about something else entirely

[CHW]

Hi,
Had few glasses of wine and have spent large part of the evening on this site. I am in two minds about a baby - or really, at the age of 35 (but Type 1 diabetic which can complicate thingss) and really ought to make a decision about whether to have a family or not.
I worry about cost, the changes it will make to our lives and, well, if I am actually just happy as I am. Me and DH discussed going for it, so to speak, sometime after the start of Aug (as did the London Triathlon before then so couldn't before then) and decided we would once the triathlon was out the way. Now it is and we are both stalling. But it is playing on both our minds - in the do we, or don't we way.

My babyometer keeps going haywire - any tips or things for me to also consider which may help us make a decision. I am also wondering if we are simply analysing things too much but beeing diabetic makes things more complicated (ie they need to be planned, in an ideal world at least.) Any help or food for thoughts would be MASSIVELY appreciated!

Suerock I think you may have a point!

Hi All,

Just back from a work three-day thing, havent had time to go through the recent posts as am exhausted, but will do tomorrow. So just a 'hello' from me, really.

(Have to say though, Confused, you really are going for it, arent you?!)

Hi HP,
Kind of I am but it is more the weird (prob in head) symptom spotting due to crap contreceptive approach while on, apparent, fertile days.
Till tomorrow...

Hi LST. My DH was not very interested about the first IVF appointment until I showed him the letter which says they ask all DH/DPs to attend the first appointment, which lasts a whole day, lots of form filling and his signature was needed on most of the consent forms. The clinic don't insist on DH being present for other apmnts and scans unless he wants to be there. My DH came to about 1 in 3 scans and obviously had to be there on the egg collection day as you have to have an adult accompany you home and stay with you for 24 hours bec of the general anaesthetic, and also bec he has to provide sperm sample for the eggs to be matched with/injected with.

I truly recommend buying or borrowing books: "Zita West's Guide to Getting Pregnant" and "Getting Pregnant - Faster" by Marilyn Glenville. The second one my reflexologist recommended to me.

It is a massive decision making the break from stopping conception to trying to conceive. It has so many emotions thrown in. I appreciate that I've been stuck on green for so long that I don't really belong on this thread, but I'll stay anyway! Tee Hee

Hi all,

Just been catching up with recent events. Best of luck with the IVF appointment LST. I think the wise women on this thread have made a really good point when they suggest you don't equate lack of interest with TTC opposition.

Re fertility monitoring, I have had a year of not really paying much attention to peak fertile times (I'm still not sure of my cycle length cos I've never remembered to mark my start date on the calender for two consecutive months ) but this month I've upped my vigilence dramatically. I bought a few cheap ovulation kits off ebay and tested in the week I was supposed to be ovulating based on a rough estimate based on an average cycle length. This may be TMI, but I tested DH's committment to the cause by telling him when I'd got a positive test result and warning him that he was jointly responsible for the possible consequence of any reproductive activity he chose to undertake. It didn't deter him. .

I got a load of cheap pregnancy testing kits in the same ebay lot, so am now toying with the idea of an early test in a couple of weeks. I like to think its just because i have the equipment and would like to make use of it, rather than impending conception obsession. We shall see...

LST - when is your IVF appointment? I gather from the posts that it is soon, but not sure how soon.

YTD - glad it's not just me that is going into the green zone (although that still sounds weird occassionally.) I too am going to do the test thing this weekend. I actually think it's unlikely to be positive but I'd like to all the same just in case. (Lets face it, if I was jobless, in the middle of a house move and had just split up with DH it would inevitably be positive so maybe there is a chance of it being so when I actually want it to be first. In a weird way, after all the umming and ahhing, it's quite a nice novelty doing something more proactive about the whole thing so I am probably getting ahead of myself. Maybe the novelty will wear off soon through after several months of fake symptom spotting and two week waits...

Everyone else, red, amber or green...?!

Green / Amber here! Just followed you onto the obsessive monitoring and testing thread Confused!

Will probably test next week. Its almost like I've only just started TTC, this being the first month where I know we've done everything right. However, I think I'm hoping to draw a blank this month. Our house is a DIY nightmare at the moment and all the very sound and practical reasons why it wouoldn't be good to have kids just now are surfacing.

Argh! Am letting off steam a bit here as having a rubbish day so far!

Went to see the nurse this morning about the folic acid etc. She was running late so the 20 min appt was more like 10 mins, 5 of which was trying to get blood out my arms (I don't have the best veins for these things.) In short, I told her we were / are TTC and she looked aghast and offered me more pills! She wants me to go to the hospital for 'a counselling session' first, so I know 'what I am letting myself in for.' This session will mainly be about eating healthy, exercise and keeping blood sugar under tight control. I agree all this is very important, but do all this anyway - and have the results from the path lab to prove it! She also added that high blood pressure can be a risk (mine is, and always has been, completely normal), as can being overweight (I am 5 foot 4 and ten stone) and also my eye health needs to be checked (it was 10 days ago when I went to get more contact lenses, I paid for the diabetic screening too, she had that in front of her too.)

I do realise that it is important for someone to be as healthy as possible etc etc but I feel as if I am being treated as if this is a whim and I am in no fit state to be even considering a baby, never mind actively wanting to! It is also rather like the nurse, despite the evidence in front of her showing my control is excellent, has to tick all the boxes before they 'let' us TTC. Being diabetic doesn't bother me normally but at times like this it REALLY does! It is not that I especially object to seeing someone, but she seems to think it would be several visits before they even considered giving us the go ahead, despite all evidence to say I know exactly what I am doing!

It was left with her repeatedly telling me NOT to TTC until I have 'had the counselling' and with one last attempt on her part to give me more pills. (She said that the diabetic clinic 'may not want to see' me if I am not on the pill as it can imply I am 'not taking it seriously.' I find this rather insulting to be honest (even though it was said in as friendly a way as something like this can be said.)

Humph.

Needless to say, I think I'll only share that caution has actually already been thrown to the wind already if I need to!

Ps Also in bad mood as old work has since decided they been overpaying me since December (an 'honest mistake' they say) and are now asking for a large chunk of cash back. Super.

Oh, bum, just wrote a long message but lost it as my wifi time in the cafe ran out. Anyway, was mainly expressing my indignation on confused's behalf - can't believe the nurse treated you like that. I'm sure she meant well on some level, but aren't people with diabetes allowed to have babies?! She had the evidence of your knowledge and carefulness and good sense in front of her. Presumably lots of people with diabetes get pregnant all the time without giving it a second thought. Harumph.

Sorry to hear about the money too. Stupid people. I had a bit of a nightmare moment myself today when I looked at my bank balance - am on unpaid leave, but didn't realize I was already so in the red. DH is supporting me, and didn't want to present him with this situation right at the beginning. Time to trawl through recent statements and give myself a very stiff talking to. But this all my fault, unlike your situation.

Very exciting, YTD, even if this month isn't the absolute best moment for you TC. But good luck (at the right time, of course!) - perhaps a BFP on this thread will jog us all into a more certain state of mind!

My IVF meeting is 5th October, but that's also when the teaching starts on my new course so may have to change it. They're so hard to get, and few and far between, but I don't think I can miss the first bit of teaching. Hoping to rush back from campus in time, but will have to look at how feasible this is. Typical!

Am trying to be philosophical about DH not coming, helped by all your sensible advice and support (thanks confused, KC11, YTD, Suerock!). With everything else, though, I'm not sure it's not part of his general reluctance over the whole thing. Still, as KC11 says, he'll have to come along soon enough, so shouldn't get too hung up about this one.

Anyway, will keep you posted. And good luck with the TTC, or further pondering, everyone (and welcome back, HP!).

Confused - bah humbug to the nursie who has to "tick her boxes" all day!!!! I suggeste that you carry on being the healthy carefuly person you obviouls already are and try to conceive. What is nursie going to do when you announce you're pregnant? HUH? Nothing! You will be as careful as always and will look after yourself. I know one diabetic person who is atrocious at looking after herself. Don't be disheartened mother nature will look out for you, and your DH will care for you and make sure you don't take any health risks. Pregnancy can't be that dangerous as they'd have removed all your reprodctives bits! JOKE JOKE ! Don't mind me.

By the by, I've failed my IVF again this time. Bleeding. Cramping like hell right now. OWWWWWW.

Oh KC11 I'm so sorry. How awful. Tries to think of something helpful to say - and fails. Thinking of you.

Hi there,

I'm a lurker on your thread, but if you need references(!), my mid-30's/confused/over-analytical tendencies are evidenced here

• although I hang out at the mid-30's Gin Palace these days - do join us if you wish!

Anyhoo, I popped in to say, confused, I know your nurse wound you up, but she HAS to follow these guidelines

If you read them too then you will be able to tell your docs/nurse if they step out of line when treating you, and it may also help you to appreciate that it wasn't personal, it's her job to say that stuff to every diabetic woman - some of whom will not be as careful as you, unfortnately. Most importantly you might feel that you're taking control back by having access to the same info that the professionals do...I hope so anyway. All the best.

Very sorry about your news KC

KC11 - I'm really sorry to hear about the IVF. I hope you're as okay about it as you can be and the cramps are now easing. Sending you a hug!

RLR - thanks for the link. I do realise that they have to follow certain guidelines, and I am also aware that a lot of people aren't very well controlled (I got it when I was 4 so have never really known any different). I can't help getting frustrated about it though; I guess it's due to not being given a bit of credit despite full evidence in front of her saying I know EXACTLY what I am talking about! (I have had diabetes for 31 years and my body show's no signs of wear and tear from it, which is actually quite commendable even if I do say so myself ) However, I suppose it's similar for 'normal' people too - I mean how many people really cut out alcohol for 3 months PRIOR to even thinking about TTC?!

I am sorely tempted to carry on as we were / are too but obviously want them on-side, as it were. However, I am almost completely certain that the first, and no doubt the next several, sessions at a diabetic clinic is unlikely to tell me anything I don't already know.

LST - what a bummer that the IVF appt is at the same time as the firt part of teaching. What do you think you'll do?

YTD - I think I'm as excited about your weekend testing almost as much as my own! I'll be watching this space...

confused, that is indeed bloody commendable, and it would be nice to get a medal rather than a lecture!

Maybe next time you could wave the guidelines at her, and say "I know...I know...I know"

Yes indeed it is stressful and patronising for "normal" people too. And now we're being told to take folic acid for 3 months BEFORE starting TTC...where did that one come from eh? Until last week it was "start folic acid when you start TTC". Meh.

Thank you - At least I can count on you!
My mum always says to me to remember my great uncle Ken. He was admittedly a Type 2 diabetic which is different, but he still, reagrdless of all medical advice, ate nothing but crap etc and no fresh foods and didn't listen to anything the district nurses said. So, in times like these, I think 'Uncle Ken...'

So, as you're new (or a new poster, but perhaps not lurker) have you any DC's or are you too 'working on it?' And if you are, young lady, I do hope you are not drinking, smoking or forgetting your folic acid...

If you glance at the thread I linked to in my first post above (warning - if you read it all you might end up in a RED light headspin!) you will see that I:

a) am childless
b) have spent 5 years freaking myself out "thinking about it", and
c) dared myself to start TTC (or shagging with intent, as we call it in the Gin Palace) in September. It is now September, and I can't believe I have actually gone through with it, ie had sex without contraception for the first time ever!

I have a glass of wine beside me as I speak...only a small one though

Ah, I didn't read through it - in fact, I only saw the title of the thread and recognised it.
Sounds like you are a kindred spirit to the rest of us in this thread then - congratulations! If that's the right word!

So, this too is your first month of, dare I say it, shagging with intent (like that far more than TTC)? I find the whole thing weird - as you spend so much of your time terrified of getting pregant, it seems weird to actually want to! I also know already that the wait every month is going to drive me round the twist. If the diabetic nurse doesn't first!

Yep, first time SWI, it's very weird indeed. I'm still terrified of actually being pregnant/giving birth/having a baby . (Err, what am I doing this for, exactly??)

I think I'm looking forward to my period arriving, which is all wrong, isn't it? So am still very much in the getting-in-the-swing-of-things phase!

Fair enough! I think, at least to a certain extent, we all are!

Cripes, so many posts. Ive been working myself into an early grave this week so havent been able to spend any time MN-ing, so apologies for the lack of support and postings from my direction. Am pretty tired right now, so sorry if type rubbish.

Im so sorry about your IVF, LC11, I have seen the amount of physical and emotional energy that goes in to each cycle, and it must be so tough. Thinking of you.

OMG, Confused, that bloody nurse! Sod her, she was clearly reading from a script in her head and paying no attention to you as an individual.

Right, lets get this clear. Am I now the only person on here who isnt TTC??????? How the hell has that happened?

Hi Lyra I think all those of us who are SWI are in a similar head spin. Heading towards our doom propelled by some mysterious force that strikes women in their 30s.

I've had the brakes off since last September, so I should be used to it by now, but I am taking the view that the past year doesn't really count, cos I wasn't paying much attention to the logistics and probaby had loads of months where we didn't do the deed at the optimal time. This month I've established that I do actually ovulate and we did the business at exactly the right time, so assuming we are actually capable, then this month is the first time I think there is a substantial risk of conception.

I really want to know what the outcome is (hence my early testing plan for the weekend), but I'm not really sure what outcome I want it to be. I think I might be a bit relieved with a no. But I just don't know...

Confused i think the nurse hasn't really been following the spirit of the guideline. All you need to do is You don't need counselling to decide whether you want to try for a baby - you've been doing that on here for ages! Admittedly, there is a lot of additional monitoring and potential medical intervention required, but there is no reason at all why that can't be established post conception, should you have struck lucky in the first month.

If you are taking folic acid, have good glycaemic control and you're BMI isn't through the roof (which at 10 stone, it can't be) then there can't be any reason for not pressing on. And the fact that you have been to see the nurse is an indication that you are taking seriously. The last thing you should be doing is taking more pills. If she wants you to hold off TTC, she should have been suggesting an alternative form of contraception. Hurrumphh! And the idea that the diabetic clinic 'may not want to see' you is just plain wrong!

Anyway, further info is available at the very comprehansive Medline Plus site (its American, but the info is still applicable and its much more comprehansive than anything produced by the NHS): www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/diabetesandpregnancy.html

For the rest of us, standard pre-conception advice is available here: www.cks.nhs.uk/pre_conception_advice_and_management#283609001

KC - really sorry to hear about the IVF Thinking of you.

Confused - bah to health professionals who have to tick boxes and treat everyone like they don't know their own bodies. Perhaps they see it as better to patronise a few people who have well-controlled medical conditions (like yourself) and catch all the people who aren't (like your Uncle Ken - not that I'm figuring he spent a lot of time getting pregnant ) than have people who need help slipping though the net. But it must have been frustrating for you.

HP - you can count me as not TTC. I delved into the carefully hidden box of baby related stuff the other day in a fit of enthusiasm for predicting ovulation to find that the kit I bought covertly ages ago had gone out of date, along with the folic acid. However, whoever mentioned eBay gave me an idea - if I ever get around to wanting another one, I won't have to try and buy it in Boots with the fear that I might bump into someone I know. Arrgghh. Why am I so paranoid?

Good luck to those of you testing soon - hope you get the answer you want, whatever that may be at the time!

Hi
I don't usually post & haven't read the whole thread as not currently TTC. Anyway, I just wanted to add a couple of comments for confused re my experience of T1 diabetes & pregnancy. I have been T1 for 25 ish years. My DD was a happy "accident" & she is now 19mths.
All pregnancy experiences (diabetic or not) seem to differ enormously but I had great care & support from the diabetic team & my obstetricain which helped a lot. I worried the whole pregnancy that something would be "wrong" with my baby due to the diabetes but everything turned out well in the end. My diabetes has been relatively well controlled and from my experience this really helps. I had no diabetic complications prior to pregnancy but have subsequently had eye laser surgery. Do you already use an insulin pump as this may help. Sorry to ramble & good luck!

Oooh, Gingerroots - a real live Type 1 like me, hurrah! There are suprisingly few of us around so it's brilliant to be in touch with one. Thank you very much for taking the time to post (especially as you don't normally.) Maybe I should be more apprehensive, but I am not too concerned about the actual pregnancy aspepct. Maybe I am a bit slap dash about all this, but I feel confident enough with my control not to let it worry me too much. I also realise that I won't know if or how my body may react until I am actually pregnant - and no number of sessions at various clinics can predict that either. I guess I have also got in the back of my mind the thought that 100's of Type 1's must have 'accidents' all the time and, while it might be relatively tricky compared to others, all these women can't all have awful problems, miscarriages or whatever.
Hope this doesn't come across as someone who doesn't care much - I do care, but still find the medical approach both unrealistic and quite patrionising.

Have to go as typing this at work - will be back later