To TTC or not to TTC, that is the question... as Hamlet sort of said about something else entirely

[CHW]

Hi,
Had few glasses of wine and have spent large part of the evening on this site. I am in two minds about a baby - or really, at the age of 35 (but Type 1 diabetic which can complicate thingss) and really ought to make a decision about whether to have a family or not.
I worry about cost, the changes it will make to our lives and, well, if I am actually just happy as I am. Me and DH discussed going for it, so to speak, sometime after the start of Aug (as did the London Triathlon before then so couldn't before then) and decided we would once the triathlon was out the way. Now it is and we are both stalling. But it is playing on both our minds - in the do we, or don't we way.

My babyometer keeps going haywire - any tips or things for me to also consider which may help us make a decision. I am also wondering if we are simply analysing things too much but beeing diabetic makes things more complicated (ie they need to be planned, in an ideal world at least.) Any help or food for thoughts would be MASSIVELY appreciated!

Ps - No, not on insulin pump! As far as I knew, they deliver insulin to follow a pattern but cannot deliver more or less without being reprogrammed as they cannot detect low's or highs.

It is good not to be apprehensive as you know the medics are more than willing to offer worst case scenario! Re the pump no as you say it doesn't detect highs and lows but does offer the ability to tweak things which isn't possible with insulin pens- something with the benefit of hindsight I would have found really useful in pregnancy.
Anyway, will not turn this into a thread about diabetes and go & get on with some work!
Good luck

Good point - about the worst case scenario!

Have to keep this very short and go to as also at work!

Hi all,
Just a quick post to say the feeling a bit weird this week is not a pregnancy but was the start of a urinary tract infection. I am not that suprised, although it is quite an anti-climax. Think DH seems more pissed off than me. Still, am using the past few weeks as good practice into being as virtuous as possible with regards to booze, healthy eating and so on and hopefully we'll have a different result soon...

I hope your weekends get off to better starts!

Hi ladies,

Sorry for gatecrashing but your thread was on one of the most active yesterday so I came to have a look

I've read some of your posts and many of your thoughts sound very familiar to me, indeed. I have been with my husband for many years and we were so young when we met we never discussed kids, too busy having a good time ! I also work in science and am quite career orientated and I was never broody at all.

Then we got married when I was in my very early 30s. We were still having a good time, but every time I knew someone that got pregnant I'd feel angry and sad. Angry that they knew what they wanted from life, and sad I lacked the conviction to be absolutely sure myself. The feelings were so murky I didnt share them with anyone, but I began to get increasingly stressed about "the issue" since I knew I had to deal with it sooner or later !

We use persona, and on one occasion I told DH "this could be dodgy" and that was the sum total of our conversation. I thought nothing would happen as we'd been together many years and never had a scare. I got pregnant, and the next 8 months were some of the worst of my life, I have to be honest. I was terrified, and I kept thinking "Well if I'd have know it would be easy I'd have waited" and "I'm not ready for this" and "this is not what I want". Coming from a large family, I'd seen how much work small children were and I really didnt want it. I used to cry all the time that I couldnt have fun anymore, couldnt do what I wanted anymore, felt ill and tired.....

Then my baby was born and as soon as they out him on my chest I experienced a high that has never gone away. Afterwards I felt that a big secret had been kept from me, about how great it would feel. Waking in the night wasnt a chore, holding his small body to me in the dark was a pleasure! Changing his nappy wasnt repetitive and horrible, I wanted to make him feel secure and comfortable. Taking him out for walks and introducing him to the world was so exciting. Feeding him solid food for the first time and seeing him enjoy it was so rewarding. Seeing his love for me and giving him my love back was amazing. During the hard bits, I would think to myself "This is a challenge, and challenges were what you wanted in life".

So now I cant go out for meals when I want them, I cant watch what I want on TV. DH and I have a lot less time for eachother. My house is full of plastic and it is messy. I have not had a lie in for years. I have to structure the day around my kids. But I can take them down the park and have a picnic, I can go cycling with them. We bake together. We cuddle and read books. We plan trips out together. I watch them grow. I watch their faces when I surprise them. I comfort them when they need me.

I know how awful it is not to know the answer to the question of children, it feels so frustrating you cant be scientific about it. But I'd say dont let childbirth put you off, or the pregnancy. There is a risk to getting in the car in the morning, ro going skiiing, or getting on a plane or whatever. Giving birth can be difficult and traumatic and both of mine were difficult in their way, but it is the most amazing thing your body can do. And afterwards it is just such a tiny part of yours and their whole life.

I'm not trying to be evangelical about this, as I think children arent for everyone, and at least in my case, they have strained my other relationships as they are 100% more work with 100% less time than I had before. But I'm grateful every single day we had that lucky accident....

I wanted to tell you how I feel as I if you are tipping towards doing it, then you will probably love it. Frightening, hard work and challenging, yes, but the best all the same.

The best way of describing what is like is what someone told me when i was pregnant. Its like a legitimate love affair. It is like that wonderful absorbing feeling you get when you first meet someone, but it doesnt go away.

disclaimer My two are under three. I might say something different once they are teenagers

Oooh, notjustanumber you've got me weeping into my cornflakes here! I've been hoping that this is what happens, that once you have produced the child you were never quite sure you wanted in the first place, Mother Nature does kick in and provide you with the resources to cope. I'm not especially maternal, and really don#'t want to lose my weekend lie ins (I note the time of your post with some dismay - i'm only out of bed cos i'm waiting for the plumber to arrive!) but I feel like I'm being propelled towards this by forces outside my control and I really hope that if I do get pregnant (no guarantee that it'll happen, we don't appear to be dripping with fertility at the moment) that I'll be transformed (or at least slightly adapted) in some way and be magically able to cope!

Quick update on my weekend testing plans, I'm due (I think, still not sure of my cycle length) next Saturday, so have decided this weekend would be way too early to tell. Going to leave it till next week.

Bloody hell. Thank you so much, notjustanumber for taking the time to describe your experience for us. Im a bit lost for words, because some of your words could have been written by a more eloquent me.....

"every time I knew someone that got pregnant I'd feel angry and sad. Angry that they knew what they wanted from life, and sad I lacked the conviction to be absolutely sure myself. The feelings were so murky I didnt share them with anyone, but I began to get increasingly stressed about "the issue" since I knew I had to deal with it sooner or later"

That is so exactly how I feel, its untrue. Im feeling mounting panic and frustration as why, WHY, I cant seem to make this decision. Im so stressed Im having headaches and stomach problems. I know that makes me sound a bit ridiculous but I cant help the way Im built. And then I get into a spiral of 'if Im this stressed now, maybe I should just forget it as clearly I have no clue about my own mind'. And dont get me started on DH....(Bless him)

Im so glad you have had such an amazing turn-around in your feelings after your 'happy accident', and you have made me go wobbly describing the connection between you and your little babies.

(As an aside, I think its a bit worrying how many of us 'overthinkers' are scientists. Read into that what you want.)

Confused - sucks about the UTI, hope its clearing up as we speak. Check you out with all the TTC stuff!

YTD - if there is one thing Ive picked up in my sad MN cruising, its not to test too early, as bankruptcy and frustration lie on that path! Although, what the hell do I know, I cant decide whether to have cornflakes or muesli for my breakfast....

notjustanumber thank you! I too have gone wobbly over my cornflakes! What has happened to you is just what I hope will also happen to the rest of us too. I guess at least we have nature and instinct on our side! It was also great to know that you had an 'accident' and came out feeling this way. Also, to write all that while looking after two children under three (instead of being frazzled!) makes it all the amazing!

YTD - I agree with HP, it's too early to tell. Isn't it a bugger though! Well, it is if patience isn't one of your strong points like me!

HP - I think you may have hit the nail on the head when you mentioned the number of scientists on this thread and their overthinking. True, I too can over-anaylse but if you do it for a living too... Also, reading between the lines, and sorry if this sounds blunt, I think you do want to, but need it to be the joint decision of both you and your DH. I guess that being someone whose head rules rather than their heart, (a quality that wouldn't go amiss in myself sometimes!), you can think of 101 reasons not to go for it, but have the constant niggle in the background that really you do want to. I also think (well, bloody hope!) that once you have taken the plunge, the other things (eg money) will still be manageable, even if you don't have as much as you used to (but hey, you'll spend on visits to the pub!)

I know I have gone from dithering to full on wanting to largely due to DH. He said, last week (or so) that he did want to and then talked about why. It was the pill forgetting tipi weekend that prompted it, and it kind of forced our hand and got us thinking aobut it in a less hypothetical way. Instead of worrying about the cash, time, schools, lie in's blah blah blah, we instead focussed on whether we really wanted this and found we did. When we got married (2 years ago) we were both very much of the mindset that we didn't want any (the thought left me cold, despite thinking other little one's were lovely it did nothing to make us want to start having our own) but this seems to have changed in the last 6 months (christ, it's only six months!) When I was at uni I knew a few people who had had children young and while they coped brilliantly a few had said to me that if they knew what they knew now, they wouldn't have had any. This had stuck with me until very recently - however, now I think that I am old enough to have done the non-child friendly things I wanted, don't have the same urge to go out all the time and now feel as if I need to move on. Admittedly, a lot of my friends (one couple have been together over 18 years before they decided to) have them now, which does make a difference (baaa!) as I would hate to be the one stuck at home when they are out, or leaving the party at 11 o'clock due to the babysitter.

I can't bear this little box to type in - esp if typing a longish post!
I meant to say 'all the MORE amazing' and 'spend LESS on visits to the pub!'

Hi Honey, I really feel for you. I think as women in our society, we are supposed to want kids, and crave pregnancy and then love being a mum. I felt horrendously alone being usure about it, and then being pregnant and being depressed about it. I had some quite bad feelings, wishing for miscarriage etc, that I found hard to admit to anyone, I felt so awful. Having spoken to other people since, I dont think these feelings are that uncommon. I love mumsnet are in that you can be honest about these feelings, I wish I'd known about it then!

If it helps, it took me a year to get used to being a parent, in that I had to adjust my expectations of what I could achieve for myself and adjust to early mornings, extra work involved etc. I loved my baby but craved "time off" occasionally, though I dont feel that now as although the babies are lovely you get a bit more back as they get older.

But once you have adapted, the early mornings are great, you have much more time in the day to do stuff and little children are very willing hangers on when you walk, cook, shop, do housework etc. I feel my weekends are much better used and more fulfilling now, most of the time. The things I do with my time have changed, but only a bit. I love to cook, walk and cycle, I just have hangers-on now I actually dont miss lie ins but then I am a busy person and I have learnt that I only need 6-7 hours a night max.

Being a parent has made me more confident, more assertive, more empathetic, better at multitasking, timekeeping, organizing. I am a better employee as a result.(I work PT) My husband and I have learnt to deal with conflict much better, and though we have lost out on "us" time, the satisfaction of being parents "together" and a family makes up for it right now.

I still have hobbies though they take a back seat when the babies are very small but if you are determined you can get stuff done by involving the children and being organised. There is a bit of a "mummy guilt" culture and if you dont get involved in that it helps. Because I never really wanted children, they are not the purpose of my whole existence and they are independent beings in my their own right. I'm not explaining it very well but my theory is if you have no agenda in having a child (ie needing to have unconditional love from someone, whatever), then all the better for both of you, as the things that you get from eachother are a bonus.

I'm sure you will find happiness either way, in a way its good sign you are so unsure, you are not under any illusions about the nature of parenthood, and you are currently filling your life with things you enjoy. Counter-intuitively, I think this is almost the best time to have a child

The best of luck to you

Thankyou, notjustanumber, for your wise words. I would love to think that in a few years' time I could look back so positively at what I have lost and what I have gained in having children. Obviously my babyometer is veering towards green.

And I can empathise in the sadness and anger in hearing that friends are pregnant. I hate myself when the first thing I think about when hearing their good news is my jealous self, and how I wish I could have made the decision they made.

When I look into the future, I can sometimes see myself with a child of 6-ish to 8-ish, but it's very distant and blurred. But I can never see myself with a baby, and I can't help thinking that it's something that apathy will mean just never happens.

Morning All,

Have nipped on while DH has nipped out, for some illicit MN-ing!

I really just wanted to be a bit soft (maybe Im a bit pre-fake menstrual? TMI?) and say 'thanks' to everyone, and that Im really really grateful for being able to 'talk' to you all about all this stuff. You all know more about whats going on in my head than anyone else in RL!

Im thinking a lot about what everyone is saying and am processing it.

Any greens today? Are you still 'GREEN' Confused? Im a reddy-ambery-green (ha!).

Hope you are all having a great weekend in the lovely Autumnal weather.

HP

Morning!

I think that MN's great for being able to brain dump more openly than you would in real life. Although am thinking perhaps ought to be a bit more obtuse sometimes as anyone reading this who knew me, would probably guess immediately who I was! Ooops!

Yes, guess I am still on Green, although it's not a forefront of my mind at the moment.

Got to go as DH (currently in bed with hangover) managed to lose the car key - my mum's car, she's on holiday for 2 weeks - so I need to try and find it (no sucess) or see how much it's going to be for another one cutting - gulp!

UPDATE:

Have spent the last hour looking up nurseries in my local area, and casually discussing the locations and costs with DH. I didnt make a big deal about it, just started telling him what I was finding out. This was in the spirit of mine and Confused's Stage 1 plan from some time ago.

For those that dont know my situation with DH, this is progress! No tears, no yelling, no recriminations. He did nearly faint at the most expensive one, but we had a laugh about it. (Incidently, damn, nurseries are expensive, especially on a pathetic scientist salary!).

Now, Im certainly no further towards green in my own head, but this is a step forward in communication (so had to share!).

PS: Confused - did you find the car keys?

Hi HP, great news on the communnications progress. Not sure what your Stage 1 plan is, but I'd reccommend occasional casual remarks about the possibility of having children and associated issues, so he can get accustomed to the idea in a non-threatening way!

Chances are you may never get to total agreement from DH, or permanent green on your part. I think this is the sort of decision where the 80 /20 rule has to apply!

But don't pay any attention to me, cos I'm a bit biased at the moment. DH and I have just been God-parenting at a friend's child's Christening and I'm hugely green at the moment.

HP - whoopee! This is indeed progress! Lines of communication are becoming more open I suspect. Am delighted - and keep up the good work
I agree with YTD too that the occassional mention of baby / child related things is a good idea. Not too obvious, so it is indeed 'non-threatening' and maybe will start to work on his mindset in a drip feed fashion.

Yes, we found the car keys, well DH did when I was wicked and cruel and got him up (at 2.30pm) and said it was his turn to look. He thankfully found them (under some weeds in the garden.) Thank god for that! That could have been one hell of an expensive mistake!

We just got back from some Pizza and I have to say the experience has put me more in the mid-Ambers. We went to Planet Pizza and the place was full of families with children, the oldest of whom would have been around 6 (most were 3ish if not a bit younger.) The children, and bear in mind we got there just before 7, were sreaming and yelling at one another over the table football - not tantrums, just yelling with excitement, and it was bloody loud. Too bloody loud! Some were also crawling about under the tables and a few running about chasing one another. Now, as we all must surely know, I am not anti-children but I do not think they should be allowed to run about shrieking etc when out in a restaurant. Yes, the place is very family friendly but not everyone has a child / toddler and the level of noise they were making was hard to ignore. Maybe this is the kind of thing I would change my mind 100% on if / when we have some but I do hope not! I recall a similar incident on New Years day - the only pub we could find open was full of families and their young children, the older one's of whom were chasing one another about or even using their new scooters. That annoyed me even more as IT'S A PUB NOT A CRECHE! However, if I was limited to only a couple of places where I could take my DC would I too be one of those parents? I'd like to think not there too but I grudgingly suppose we ought to keep an open mind...? Just because there are a lot of people letting their children do that does it mean that you too can do the same and it not matter...?

Am interested to hear views. Hmmm, I may even start my very own Am I Being Unreasonable Thread on the matter and see what some mum's (as opposed to fellow ditherers) would say...

In response to your Am I Being Unreasonable Thread Confused on the whole I share your "IT'S A PUB NOT A CRECHE!" sentiment. However, there are different types of pub, and if you're in a family friendly pub at a family friendly time, then the chance of it being full of kids (who are loud and child-like) is always there and you've got to respect a parent's right to take their child into a public space. However CBeebies stops entertaining children at 7.00pm and I think that pubs should too.

I also think its very likely that we will completely change our opinions should we have offspring of our own. .

...But then of course, our offspring wouldn't be irritating, loud or annoying, would they?!

No, they would not!

I did say at the time, in the pub, that perhaps I'd be similar if it was me with the children. However, I am fully in agreement of the 7pm thing!

Am amazed at the reaction on the AIBU thread!

Wow, notjustanumber, thanks - what an amazing post. Am going to cut and paste it into a file for if I ever get pregnant and am panicking!

And great news, HP! That's a huge step forward.

Not sure what I think about the pub thing, Confused, but I know how I would have felt and that is just like you...

(Just found one of my nephew's bibs in the clean washing. That and NJAN's post and I'm back to green!)

Afternoon ladies,

The pub thread kicked off a bit Confused - I hadn't realised there was such depth of feeling around the right to let your children run riot in public spaces!

I'm a lime-ish shade of green at the moment. Which is probably a good place to be. Sort of keen but not too keen. How's everyone else? Shades of green all round?

The AIBU threads scare me. You were very brave to venture on them, Confused. I had a read through in support, man, they get angry. And also, what the hell is a troll??

Anyway. So, Im feeling green. Green green green. Dont worry, its 100% hormone related, as I am on my week break from my little friend (pill).

Green.

I think a troll is someone who registers, posts once and then bogs off. Or at least that what I think its supposed to be.

Maybe its MumsNet code for childless women who dare to use a parenting forum to discuss their lack of obvious maternal impulses and failure to adore every child they encounter in public places!

There are some seriously scary women on the AIBU threads...

Hello! I've missed you!

Hmm, I am quite shocked at some of the AIBU responses, and didn't expect some of the replies - although there seemed to be very much two definate camps.

Will be back later on tonight to 'talk' properly as about to leave work in a sec.
Till then...

ps Am amber. The AIBU's have put me off a bit