To TTC or not to TTC, that is the question... as Hamlet sort of said about something else entirely

[CHW]

Hi,
Had few glasses of wine and have spent large part of the evening on this site. I am in two minds about a baby - or really, at the age of 35 (but Type 1 diabetic which can complicate thingss) and really ought to make a decision about whether to have a family or not.
I worry about cost, the changes it will make to our lives and, well, if I am actually just happy as I am. Me and DH discussed going for it, so to speak, sometime after the start of Aug (as did the London Triathlon before then so couldn't before then) and decided we would once the triathlon was out the way. Now it is and we are both stalling. But it is playing on both our minds - in the do we, or don't we way.

My babyometer keeps going haywire - any tips or things for me to also consider which may help us make a decision. I am also wondering if we are simply analysing things too much but beeing diabetic makes things more complicated (ie they need to be planned, in an ideal world at least.) Any help or food for thoughts would be MASSIVELY appreciated!

Urgh. Melons through dainty bits.

(I always do 'clear history' after any MN action, removes any obvious evidence)

Sorry to put a downer on things but I need to brain dump and also need the support as DH is away for 3 days...

A very good friend of mine, my former boyfriend of five and a half years, has just been diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. If this is not bad enough - and read the stuff about prognosis etc on CancerUK for the grim facts - it has also rapidly spread to his liver and also a lung. In short, there isn't anything other than chemo to treat and that won't get rid of it, it will just prolong his life expectancy. I, and his many many friends, are devastated. He is being very stoic about it, and is boycotting all sympathy, which is probably a good thing as I can't imagine soppy platitudes help much when you are his shoes. I can't stop crying - hence, haven't rung as would be aliability more than anything else - but I cannnot imagine what it is like for him. Fuck, it's bad enough being me! (I hope that doesn't sound utterly self obsessed and you get what I am trying to say.)

HP and LST and any other scientist bods, can you hurry up with this cure for cancer please?! You've not got long

Just taken sleeping tablet but will log on tomorrow - sod work finding out. I feel moral support is more important and can't brain dump on my mates, who are all his mates too, as they too are in the same boat.

So, be warned - non baby related self obsessed rambling is on the cards!

I?m so sorry to hear that Confused ! I really don?t know what to say as anything I say risks sounding trite. I dont know why bad things keep happening to good people. Take care, hugs, and please vent as much as you need to.

Thank you! Glad someone is there at the end of this thread as need to vent. I keep having everything go round my head and it keeps hittting me again and again like a ton of bricks. He has been ill for about 8 weeks and we knew it was something bad, but this is so bad there is no good in it, if you see what I mean. If he just had cancer of the pancreas it wouldn't be good by any stretch but as it has spread... well, you know what I am saying.

There isn't really much you can say, now I think of it, but it is nice to get messages like yours all the same. x

Oh Confused, so sorry to hear that, what a crappy thing to happen. It's so unfair.

I know its going to be really hard, but I think you are goign to have to take the lead from your dear friend. If he is being stoical, then so must you. He has just been given the news that he has uncurable cancer (and pancreatic cancer with secondaries in the lungs and liver is as shitty as it gets, as I'm sure you know) and not only does he have to face that awful reality, but he has to manage the reactions and emotions of all his friends.

Have you spoken to him at all since you found out? Is he generally not particularly touchy feely (hence stoicism would be a natural first response?). I think you are right not to ring and weep all over him, probably not a good response, but you do need to be in touch soon to make sure he knows you care (but not in a mawkish way).

It's going to be tough, but I think the best think you can do is prepare yourself to be as supportive as possible for your friend. He's going to soon be living with a whole new reality of chemo and weakness and a series of 'last' things.

This might sound odd, but when you say "I cannnot imagine what it is like for him. Fuck, it's bad enough being me!" I don't think that is self obsessed and, in a strange way, being you is sort of more difficult. I always thought that when my Dad had cancer he had the slightly easier role, he had no choices, no decisions, he just had to take the treatment and fight the illness. My Mum on the otherhand had to support my Dad, keep all the practical stuff going (they were in the middle of a house renovation when he was disgnosed) and deal with all the sympathy, requests for health bulletins from friends etc and her own grief and worries about the prospect of losing her husband. I'm not explaining it very well (and not having had cancer myself, I'm probably not qualifyed to judge) but I think that sometimes it is easier to bear suffering yourself than to watch those you love suffer.

Anyway, I'm rambling now, but just wanted to say I'm really sorry. Sending lots of affection and sympathy your way and please do vent here as much as you need.

Morning, and thank you. Just re-read your post YTD three times.

No, generally he is not very touchy feely. Well, he can be with me but I think that's possibly as we used to go out.

I have not spoken to him since I found out as I don't think I'd be able to keep it together, which would be no help for anyone. So, I send a card yesterday wishing him luck for the appointment with the specialist on Thursday. He has also set himself up a private group on Facebook that all his friends can see and I have posted a message on that, although as he specifically said he didn't want sympathy and things it was tricky to keep it light. Actually, I think it would have been tricky to write something sympathetic too now I think about it. He currently has about 100 messages from people on there and said it was a great help.

I think I do know what you are getting at when you say that it is often just as hard for those who love the person who is ill. I guess life has to carry on as normal for the likes of me, even though something like this is going on. It doesn't seem right somehow - it's almost like life should NOT carry on! It can't and really ought to stop in it's tracks surely? I really can't imagine a world without this person in it, to be honest, and, at the age we all are, it seems so bloody unfair that this is going to happen.

I've got to go and get ready for work now. Am utterly exhausted as I woke up in the night but couldn't go back to sleep as I couldn't turn my brain off.

Thanks again for the words of support - I'll write more later. So sorry to hear about what you went through with your dad too. xxx

Oh Confused, I'm so, so sorry. What a heartbreaking situation, for everyone involved.

I am literally walking out the door to go to work, will be back later. I'm thinking of you, and your friend.

Oh confused, I'm so sorry to hear about your friend. Unfortunately pancreatic cancer is about as sucky as cancer can get, as I know you, and he, know. I know exactly what you mean when you say that it doesn't seem right that life just carries on. Just make sure he knows that you are there for him, whether he wants to talk about his illness or just to chat about good times. When someone's ill or bereaved, people not knowing what to say can sometimes lead to no-one saying anything, which can be very isolating.

Can't type more as am at work and pretending to be working. Hearing news of illness like your friend's brings it home to me why I do the job I do (I need a half rueful, half sad smiley here, which MN hasn't provided)

Damn it, life is unfair at times Sending you a big virtual hug, and don't worry about venting here.

Thank you all.
I left work today as I unravelled and would have been no use - they were lovely about it and have been told to take as much time as I need. The lady I work for, one I didn't seem to get on with very well, was so lovely but said, as I was leaving, 'I hope you get good news.' That's the thing, I won't get good news. This is not me being pessimistic, I am possibly the most optimistic person I know, but it is realistic. I can't think of anything else at the moment. It's easier when I am with other people but it still comes in waves. I can liken it to when you split with someone you have been with for a long time. You remember the good bits, the mediocre bits and the bad bits and it is also hard to imagine when this person - providing it was a long relationship, of course - wasn't in your life. Then, the prospect of them not being in your life is heartwrenching. Well, imagine this but 1000 times harder - you have 12 years of memories, you and this person know one another so well, and this person won't soon be in your life as soon they'll be dead.

Fuck.

Suerock I have never been backward in coming forward about mentioning the unmentionable, but know where you are coming from. My mum's friend whose husband died of cancer had people cross the street rather than have to speak to her and that must have been awful. However, I cannot ring him (person who's ill) at the moment as I will unravel, something he has specifically said he 'doesn't need.'

DH is away for a few days and while I feel disloyal for saying so, I am glad. I does get on with the person who is ill but they are not friends on their own terms, he see's him very much as my ex boyfriend. With him being away I feel as if I can indulge in the memories I have of this man being in my life without feeling as if I ought to hem it in. DH also has no former partner he is friends with so can't really relate to it.

Might have to go get glass of wine...

Oh petal, I just don't know what to say. You did the right thing leaving work, you need some time to yourself with this news.

I lost someone I loved dearly to cancer a few years ago, and when I was told the prognosis I felt like my heart was being ripped out.

Two things are going to get you through all this - love, and support. I hope we can be there for you, in our slightly weird, small way.

X

thank you x

[take care confused - just a small line to say hang in there, this too shall pass]

Hello, Am home again today as was no use at work. Turns out the woman I work with is going through the exact same thing with a friend of her's, who has a matter of weeks left.
My friend is at the hospital now and is probably being given various options for treatment. He sounds quite chipper in his online blog thing, which is great (amazing even?) and seems to be getting a lot of strength from the messages he is getting.

HP think the analogy of feeling like your heart is being ripped out is very accurate.

Confused, your friend sounds to be handling things as well as he could be in thh circumstances. I think you have the right attitude (i.e. not being optimistic when its just not realistic, not wanting ot be emotional all olver your friend). I do think its important that you keep communicating and that you do speak to / see him soon. You are right to not want to weep all over him, but I do think you need to be in touch and be honest. I think real emotional reactions can be quite helpful. And if you are someone that your friend can be a little more touchy feeliy with, then he might appreciate contact where his upper lip doesn't have to be so stiff.

This is probably a bit tagental, but one of my Mum and dad's friends (went to school with my Dad - so a really old friend) turned up at the hospital when Dad was dying (it was fairly sudden in the end, despite the fact that he'd been ill for a while, so the village grapevine was working overtime). She was actually too late (his life support machine was switched off 30 minutes before she arrived) but she'd wanted to let my dad know just how much she loved him. In someone else it might has been an intrusion, but her response (and her affection for my dad) was so real that it was just lovely. Me and mum ended up having to spend a good hour mopping her up and looking after her, but it just felt good to know that others were are cut the core as we were.

Does your friend have a partner? I just ask cos if he is getting that sort of close emotional support already then your are probably right to hang back a bit. But I think if you are one of few people with whom he can share closer emotions, then do get in touch and don't try to be stronger than your currently are. Maybe he needs an opportunity to be a bit emotional alongside someone with whom that is sort of normal behaviour?

I think what I'm getting at is that whilst an emotional response from mates with whom he has never had that type of relationship would be pretty awkward, maybe an emotional response from you wouldn't be so bad, as that is a bit more normal? In my limited experience of terminal illness, what sufferers want as much as possible is a bit of normality, as we do all have to get on with the business of living, even whilst we are dying.

Take care. xxx

This is helping me so much, thank you!

No, he doesn't have a partner. He has a ridiculous number of friends but no girlfriend. I think it's sinking in slowly now (but may again hit me like a tonne of bricks) so I think I'll be able to hold it together a bit more when I speak to him. He is a very open person who doesn't have any qualms about bursting into tears in front of people so may already be doing, I am not sure.

I suppose I could say I am lucky in the sense that I have never had something like this to deal with so far in my life (not that I am feeling very lucky!) as it's so prevalent - cancer I mean - and so many have direct and hearbreaking stories.

I think I'll give him a call tonight. He hasn't updated his blog thing yet about the trip to the oncologist (this may sound weird behaviour but it is 'very' him) so not sure what's going on there yet. Hopefully we'll know more soonish and then can start to deal with it. He sounds very keen to try chemo so hopefully this can be a good option that won't compromise his quality of life too much.

Going round in circles (as is my head) so will stop typing now and re-read all your lovely messages.

Update!
He has to have a biopsy on Monday. This will then give more of an idea for treatment, which will be either chemo or, bleakly, a case of making him more comfortable. The consultant was talking in three month chunks of chemo too, which is sort of promising.

Isn't it...?

I think, but I don't know (my opinion is based on a very small sample of case studies, not a general care pathway) that 3 months of chemotherapy is indicative of a containing course of treatment, rather than a 'cure' attempt.

Just had a look at the Cancer Research site. It says the following about chemo for advanced panreatic cancer:

"If you have symptoms from advanced pancreatic cancer, your doctor may suggest chemotherapy. The chemotherapy won't cure the cancer but it might shrink your cancer and so help to relieve some of the symptoms. It may help to slow down the growth of the cancer for a while."

It sounds like a positive move, the results are mixed, but treatment to slow the spread of / shrink the cancer, could give your friend more time. Some times the extra time can be quite long (my Gran had uncurable ovarian cancer for 5 years, which was about 4 years longer than expected), but timescales can be cruelly unpredictable.

But yes, I think you are right to be mildly hopeful, if teh cancer actually shrinks in response to treatment, that could give your friend several additional months (or even years) of comfortable life. Incurable does not always = immediate.

Each test result will bring more information, and the doctors will use this to plan the path your friend could take regards his treament. Like you say, you will all know more after the biopsy.

How are you doing? When is DH back? I know you said you felt better able to cope with the initial shock by yourself, but I think the time has come for a well deserved cuddle.

Hope those of us who live in the east got home safe and sound before the snow hit.

Morning,
I realise he cannot be cured as such and that the only option will be chemo to treat it. Guess we'll know on Monday (am guessing he'll get the results as soon as possible and read that it can sometimes be the same day...?) My friend's dad had it in his liver and he had chemo that worked very well for a while - think he had another year before he started to get sick anyway. We shall see.

Yes, DH came back last night and we ended up having a ginormous row in the pub (I was shaking with rage.) In short, he didn't get why I am so cut up AT ALL (he seemed to think that his dad having shingles was equally worrying) but, thankfully, I think he does now.

After the large drama we went back home and I showed him the blog thing that my friend is doing, along with all the messages of support (and, as he requested, 'dark humour.') I think it is sinking in a bit.

I think he has been very wrapped up with his trip to Belgium and won't have thought about it much, or have seen me and how I've been. He was also pissed off that I was on the phone most of Wednesday night talking to other people about my friend who is ill when he wanted to ring and tell me how it was going with the Belgian company he was visiting - I think this is when I flipped. Anyway, it's (sort of) better now.

Still feel like a wrung out dishrag though (and very short tempered, the woman who sits opposite me is driving me up the wall so may have to go for a walk...)

Poor Confused, hang on in there, get through today and then it's the weekend. What a shame about the row, it seems like he feels like he has walked into a hurricane and hasn't realised the seriousness of the situation for you and your friend. It is funny (not ha-ha) how people react differently to illness and stressful events.

Try not to staple your colleagues face to her desk. Or do. Whatever makes you feel better.

• stapling colleague's face to desk!

DH has texted me saying he misses the cheerful me and feel's like S's illness is 'taking over our lives.' I had to point out that I have known this news for FOUR DAYS.

I think DH is starting to realise, but also cannot relate to it (he compared it to when he was getting divorced, he couldn't think of anything else when he was going through that). He does like the person involved but they wouldn't be friends in their own terms, and I think he does find it weird that I get on so well with my ex-boyfriend. However, my other ex-boyfriend who I am very good friends with he thinks is the bee's knee's - they call one another all the time!

It's all very very tricky, and the last thing I need is to fall out with DH about it. (We never fall out normally.)

Managed to contact S and giving him a call at lunchtime. Deep breaths, deep breaths...

If any of you find a stapler for use on colleagues, please do let me know. It sounds just the thing to use on my boss's mouth

I hope your phonecall to your friend went well confused, and that he's doing OK. It sounds like he is managing to strike a balance between being positive and being realistic - and I take my hat off to anyone who can do that when just having been diagnosed with something like pancreatic cancer. I hope his blog, dark humour and stoic attitude help him through whatever the future throws at him. It's also good to hear that his treatment is progressing fast and the NHS isn't keeping him hanging around.

Sorry to hear about your row with your DH though - I hope things calm down over the weekend. It must've been really hard for both of you. I guess he didn't realise the seriousness of your friend's illness if he was comparing it to shingles or divorce? And it must be specially tough since the friend in question is specifically 'your' friend rather than the friend of both of you (why doesn't English have different words for 'your' singular and 'your' plural?). I think your DH needs to be supporting you here and not questioning why you're upset!

Anyway, I hope everyone's tucked up at home with a glass of wine and the heating turned up, and not stuck in a snowdrift. No snow down this way but it's bloody freezing out there.

Yup, sat at home with a glass of wine and very thankful not to be out.

The phonecall was okay, but quite brief. I was suddenly very conscious of not wanting to solely talk about 'the situation' but also felt rather at a loss what to talk about instead. Everything else seems extremley trivial really. So, was not on the phone for long (about ten mins) and wished him luck for Monday. We'll know more then.

DH has been a bit weird today, although it would be nice to not have to worry about him being weird at the moment. He met me after work - ten mins late - then we had a few drinks and came home. I then had a bath as was freezing but feeling scuzzy (due to cold weather but sitting in centrally heated rooms - and then came down and tidied up. I was tidying up all the stuff he had decided to leave on the kitchen table from when he got back yesterday, and also put the cups etc lying about in the dishwasher, hung the washing out that I put in last night (DH not been working today, by the way) and then, through gritted teeth, asked him if he had ordered the curry yet. He hadn't, so am doing that now too.

While these things would be mildly irritating normally, they are pissing me off right now. I feel like I want to be 'looked after' not walk on eggshells (although, to be fair, he is improving on that front) and sort things out. Instead I feel like he thinks I should look after him. By contrast, a friend of mine is sending regular texts and things and it feels really nice knowing someone is thinking of me.

Grumble, grumble, grumble.

Told you I needed to vent!

That can be a bit difficult ie DH not getting on with an ex. I guess he needs to be back for sometime- am sure he will soon begin to understand why you are so upset. and an ex-who-never-became-a-friend-with-DH will take longer to get sympathy than an ex who did. sorry, i seem to be stating the obvious- just thinkng it out. i guess he just needs the weekend- work trips are never nice and it takes time to get back in the thick of it. so basicallu just give it some time- i guess he can logically understand but it isn't hitting him , yet at any rate.
was snowing earlier- drove down to meet family and not snowing here, but yes, bittely cold. take care all and load up on the wine!

Am in family hell. PreChristmas tour of duty. Won't have chance to post much over coming days.

Confused, am thinking of you.

Take care all, drive carefully, we had a nightmare heading north.