Fertility Appointments and Beyond: Electric Boogaloo

[thislittlebird]

Hit capacity on the old thread, will tag you in!

@beckyCarlos thanks! how's things going?

@99pctpractice I agree. All my friends had kinds in their late 30s/40s, why is it just us that has the issue? Obviously something else going on IMO since natural shouldn't be an issue even with low egg reserve etc, we ovulate each month still.

As you said, it's a lot of guesswork. I'm so tired of how expensive it all is too, when they don't seem to know much. I just wish I understood why this cycle had half the number of mature eggs. We went from 12 to 6 which is just terrible odds with his sperm. I've also convinced myself they're picking the bad sperm in ICSI and wondering if there's any chance of them letting us do half IVF/half ICSI if we get enough eggs next time.

@Kay00 fingers crossed you'll get more than zero and they can improve things. Did they ever give you an explanation as to why they think that it happened? We've started all the supplements again, so fed up of them, but it seems like we need to after the first cycle was much more productive than this one.

They changed it to be the same? why? We're going to have to save in the new year while we prep for the next one. Round 3 is already paid for, which is good. I want to discuss things with them like the IVF/ICSI mentioned above, and if we can cut our losses and cancel the cycle if only a few eggs are growing and try another month. If this round doesn't work I'm tempted to try mild IVF with Create. I'm just going round in circles and spiralling about how I'm running out of time to do this, fuck being 40 in a few months :/

Oh and another thing I want to vent about. I told my friend after we'd done the cycle that it didn't go well, I hadn't really mentioned it before. I said it had gone really badly, but didn't say a lot more than that. She didn't ask about it and just said "oh what a nightmare" and that was it. It really hit me hard, reminded me that everyone is busy with their kids and doesn't get how hard this all is. I didn't reply because I just felt so alone with this, the only one who gets it is DH and even he has a different experience as the male partner.

And another thing... @99pctpractice do you remember who it was here that recommended a clinic where varicocele surgery was not too expensive? Possibly it was @Beyondshit? But she changes her name so I can't remember if this is the right @.

Dr Khanna at Wexham Park @thithislittlebird

Sorry not read the thread in ages. Completely taken a break, am considering looking at clinics abroad now. Will read the thread and catch up xx

@thislittlebird it's crap the diagnostics for infertility is so limited and mainly focused on women. I really hope things will change in the future as more and more people face infertility. It's definitely not just an age thing. My acupuncturist mentioned that she's increasingly treating more and more patients for infertility than ever before, and mostly younger women. So something's definitely changed in our generation. Some put it down to increased plastic usage in our parent's generation and we're only seeing effects now, not sure if there is a proven link. Think I went a bit off-track, but what I'm trying to say is that you're not alone, and we get it. One of my best friends knows about my struggles, but doesn't quite get it either. She keeps saying I'll have options, but no one really gets all the sh** we had to go through first to get to this stage and then for it to fail and the financial and general implications of it. We have always wanted to move cities, but now we have put away some money for IVF, so the house move is on hold. Likewise, I've had a few great job offers, which I've had to turn down due to IVF commitments and mat leave etc. I know you're also in a similar situation. No one really gets what it's like in terms of my family/friends. I find these threads so useful and supportive to not feel so alone. This is such a cruel journey and I really really hope we all get to hold our babies in the near future X

@Kay00 how's your cycle going so far? Have they given you a potential collection date yet? Would you transfer this cycle? I've started my frozen cycle (they gave the go ahead yesterday), so I'm on ganirelex and oestrogen tablets. They have pencilled in 22nd as a potential transfer date if all goes well. I'm going to have to be so careful at Christmas and be as stress free as possible (my husband has a big family and it's always chaos when everyone gets together).

@Beyondshit thank you! I hope you're opk. I can't remember if you had the varicocele surgery or not?

Hi guys,
I've been following on, but not much happening in my area, so haven't posted much.

@Tinkerbell098 completely get where you're coming from on career stuff.
I'm at the point in my job where I should & want to move on to progress. I also got some great offers on the table, but had to decline because I'm doing IVF in Feb 😕
I'm still so sad about it because IVF isn't a guarantee and I'm afraid I'll be stuck in my job for years.

@thislittlebird my OH did the varicocele surgery in Sept with Dr Ramsay, we should start seeing changes in Jan.
We stupidly tried anyway because you know - hope, but I really regret not taking a break as each time AF came along, I had a breakdown.

Hope everyone is ok xx

@Tinkerbell098 that transfer is so near to Christmas! Are you expecting people to ask why you aren't drinking?

It's infuriating how with men they just say "do ICSI" and then it doesn't work and the nhs doesn't fund it equally for everyone. No one bothers to care about why the sperm isn't doing what healthy sperm does, they just ignore it and move on.

I do think there's been a decrease in fertility, and it can't be only age, especially where men are concerned and they don't have that same deadline we do, even if age still impacts them. I'm tempted to send DH for some acupuncture before the next cycle too. With the varicocele I feel like we have to try removing it in case it does help.

That's the thing, it takes YEARS to get to the point we're all at and people who just have kids without thinking about it do not get it, that's before the money side of thing is taken into consideration. I'd have loved to have spent all this money on nice things for a kid, but I can't. And yeah, we're in the same boat. Can't move, can't change jobs, and frankly I don't know if I even want to considering how much time I've had off lately and how chill my boss is about it. I don't know if another employer will be as understanding. And we're not out of the woods yet, there's probably another year? 18 months or more? of this for me before we throw the towel in. Depends if we get any embryos, I guess.

@JeanieJ Trying naturally is hard when you have hope. I have no hope and it's still hard because I can't understand how ZERO motile sperm have made it to where they need to be in 3 years. How much did ramsay charge? I know it'll be pricey with him and he didn't think DH needed it which is....annoying, since ICSI hasn't worked for us now and we're confused.

@thislittlebird it was not cheap.
About £1k for all the tests & about £6k for the embolization of the varicocele.
I'm sure you can get it cheaper with more research and not in London.

It's tough isn't it? When we found out about DH's high DNA frag, my clinic said, just do ICSI & don't waste your money on DH - it was infuriating. Male fertility is 20 years behind 🫤.
Dr Ramsay told us, that younger eggs from your 20s can have a healing effect on poor sperm. It made me feel really bad about myself. I'm 35, so not old, but I'm not in my 20s either.
It all sucks 🫤

@JeanieJ yeah, that's what @Beyondshit did I think, found a cheaper option, so we might use the same guy. I can't afford to give Ramsay 6k, we did all the tests and consultations with him and that was enough. 6k is a whole IVF round :/

I heard that about young eggs. It upsets me, I don't want to use other eggs yet, maybe I will in future after more attempts, but I just feel sad we can't do this together. You're probably fine at 35, mine are OAPs now, unfortunately.

@thislittlebird well, we'll see how my cycle goes next year with my eggs.

It's just so random if I'm honest. I know some people younger than me with unexplained infertility and they're getting nowhere with IVF. I also know someone who is the same age as me - unexplained & they never made it to EC.

Sometimes we have answers & then the rest of the time we're in the dark 🫤

How are people managing the festive season? Are you drinking/not drinking?

Xx

Hi ladies! A little update from me.

A couple o days ago I had my day 5 bloods taken and my Estrogen was high so they reduced my stims meds (from 150IU Meriofert to 112.5IU).

Today I had my day 7 bloods and scan. The scan showed I had 13 big follicles on one side and 12 on the other, most are in the 11-14mm range but I have 4 in the 17mm+ range already. My Estrogen was high again so the have reduced my Meriofert down to 100IU from tonight.

My ovaries feel massive already and they are starting to ache. I'm a bit worried as I have 4 days of stims left 🥴 and egg retrieval isn't until Wednesday next week 😬.

In my last cycle we reduced the Meriofert from 150IU to 112.5 on day 7, so this time we are using a slightly lower dose. Hopefully that helps improve the quality. My concern is that it feels like I'm stimulating more rapidly this time... Eek!

@thislittlebird there's been some press about a general issue with sperm: www.ft.com/content/1962411f-05eb-46e7-8dd7-d33f39b4ce72 and i agree, it absolutely sucks that nobody tries to address the sperm issues: there's so much burden on women to go through ivf/icsi at the first sign of issues, when men (not all, but some) have the power to alter their sperm quality in 90 days through lifestyle changes because they're lucky enough to get new ones, as opposed to women who are stuck with whatever egg quality they've got!

@Kay00 that sounds like great numbers. it's good that they're monitoring you so closely and adjusting your meds and i hope those ovaries don't feel too huge!! and good luck for your weds ec. will you freeze all rather than having a fresh transfer in case of the risk of ohss?

@Kay00 hopefully it’s not overcooking the eggs and you have more follicles growing maybe? Is this more than last time? Four days is a while, are they expecting any to be too big by then?

@99pctpractice i can’t stop thinking about this MFI issue right now tbh. Before we saw Ramsay we had been on supplements for months and the results were ok, I guess. First round was ok (had still been on supplements from about feb/March 21 until feb 22) and then we didn’t do all that stuff for the second, took it for granted I guess that it would be ok. And then they couldn’t do IMSI for our cycle so I asked for the SA from egg collection day. He had a concentration of 25 million (1 day abstinence) and the highest ever motility at 30% before prep but after they said they analysed 5ul of the sample and it contained “occasionally twitching sperm”. Wtf does this mean? Are all his motile sperm just twitching and not moving? If his sperm are barely swimming how are they going to work at all? So back to square one, he’s taking the supplements again but what was the sperm even like after the guys round? Was that also “occasionally twitching”? I think I’ll have to ask Guys for the SA from our first round to compare. He just had another one done last week by the GP and is seeing a urologist or andrologist at Guys in February. I’m just pretty angry right now. We’re also probably going to look into getting the varicocele removed privately in January and just hope it helps, which it might not. If no sperm are swimming how the hell are we going to get pregnant ever? I’m upset by all this and the money already spent. We should have done an SA before attempt 2 I guess. Lesson learned, we’ll get the clinic to freeze some if we can get it to improve in the new year, and will have to keep retesting I suppose.

@JeanieJ definitely drinking, life is too short for all this shit and no alcohol. We’ll be better behaved in the new year probably.

@beckyCarlos I’m in York, it’s all a bit manic round here today!

@thislittlebird my clinic were very dismissive of the idea that our poor attrition rate in Cycle 1 could be due to sperm issues. The consultant said there was no need to do a DNA frag because we're having ICSI anyway and that will select for the best sperm 🤷

It's a problem because my OH sees this as the green light to drink as much alcohol as he likes, do zero exercise and generally not get too involved in this process. In his eyes this isn't his problem... Which might not entirely be true.

@99pctpractice I'm not counting on there being many blasts to Freeze... Unfortunately. Plus my clinic is keen on a 5 day fresh transfer if possible. I'm hoping I avoid OHSS like I did last time 🤞

@Kay00 I hope everything goes ok & you're not too stimulated 🤞🏻🤞🏻

The male factor thing is so annoying - clinics can be very dismissive and just focus on the woman.
OH has been trying quite hard recently - not drinking & taking up more exercise, taking supplements etc, so I can't complain too much about him.

Today we bought him some Impryl in prep for our cycle in Feb. Anyone tried this? It's so expensive 🤢

Omg @thislittlebird I was in York today too! Was this your lovely weekend away? It was HEAVING while we were there. A reminiscent choice for us (I went to uni here, lots of husbands friends did too, but opposing unis, suprising we never met before 27 tbh!) But in hindsight with the crowds we should just have stayed in Leeds 🤣

@99pctpractice I saw the press about sperm numbers, shocking isnt it! And like I was sayong to my acupuncturist (/getting on my soapbox about) WHY in gods name is the answer to 'bad' sperm ''just' have ICSI' sod that. Im female, and I've 'just' had ICSI, and (I dont need to tell you all) its rough as balls (no pun intended), you can tell a amn dreamt that shit up as an answer to male factor issues. Just jizz in a cup guys and your women will do the rest 🙄

@beckyCarlos urgh it's so true. I'm starting to think about the upcoming procedure and I'm a little dreading it.

My clinic doesn't knock you out, so I just get a local anaesthetic and gas&air. I coped fine with it last time, I even found it interesting, but I had no idea what I was going in to... This time I have the memories of them piercing each follicle with a long sharp straw to suck out the eggs, and I'm just not looking forward to it 🥴. OH just needs to jizz in a cup and act the hero as he cooks us food that night 😑

@Kay00 I’m always a bit shocked your clinic doesn’t knock you out. I could not deal with it, I’d panic so you’re a better patient than me. So can you convince your dh to have a fragmentation test? It’s such an expensive process if it doesn’t work. Your second cycle might be great but if it isn’t it’s definitely an avenue to pursue.

@JeanieJ dh used impryl amongst other things, it did seem to improve things for him.

@beckyCarlos ugh yeah it was gross. I had to take myself back to the hotel, sausage van queue was about a million people long. Came back out in the evening and had a very nice bratwurst lol. Very few market stalls open at night, which was a bit odd.

I’m in such a bad way still. When you do a cycle and they just cut you off at the end until you book a follow up it’s horrible. I just want answers to what happened and if his “twitching” sperm is even capable of making a baby. Someone on another thread just had success on transfer 4 and I feel so gutted at how many embryos have failed now for us.

@thislittlebird I'm sorry you are still in a bad way 😔 the wait between the end of the cycle and the WTF appointment just seems to last forever!

I had my egg collection today. The first half of the egg collection went well, just the same as last time really. But the 2nd half (my left ovary) was insanely painful 😭 lt felt like she had impaled a nerve, and every follicle she pierced was excruciating 😣 I was writhing in pain and even called out in pain. Ugh. I feel much better now but I hope I don't have to do it again.

We collected 21 eggs (3 more than last time), which is amazing considering we reduced the stims this time. I'm pleased but concerned about the quality of the eggs... Let the hunger games commence!

@Kay00
Sorry you had such a painful experience, but that's good news on the 21 eggs 🙂

Fingers crossed everything goes well for you x

Hi ladies

We've been TTC again since July after three CPs earlier this year. I've had a few blood tests and a private scan, and want to start making plans for sperm tests etc DH. How long does it take before the NHS will start agreeing to more testing for me and tests for DH? I'd rather not go private! TIA.

@JuniperandI welcome! I went straight to private for additional tests because the NHS was dragging it's feet. The tests weren't expensive and I was still able to get treatments (Clomid and later on IVF) on the NHS.

Ladies... I need a bit of advice. Apart from a bit of discomfort after the egg retrieval I felt pretty normal, but my stomach has become increasingly bloated. It hurts to touch and I can't even bend forward 😕 it's not so much painful around my uterus but all the way up to my ribs.

My OH is concerned about OHSS, but surely it's too soon to have it? On the day of egg retrieval? I am weeing and not struggling to breath, so maybe not OHSS? Or could be just the start?

Either way, I definitely didn't feel like this last time. Did any of you?