TTC after pregnancy loss 32 - the penguin huddle

[ReeReeR]

New thread 🐧🐧🐧

I have accidentally created a thread 33 as well but will delete that!

Anyway, rant over the NHS is over, I have found it useless in respect of baby loss throughout and nothing will change this experience now. How are you doing @LASandOtto? Any progress on the house? How are you feeling?

@Avocuddles It made me smile when I read what you said about mentoring, I'm exactly the same. I think it is important sometimes to take a step back because at some point you burnt yourself out by helping everyone else, but yourself. You have also been through a lot and don't forget to prioritise yourself now and keep enough of this precious energy for your bad days too, which inevitably do come in our position. I love your words of advice and happy to dish something hopefully half-sensible when you're in need too. Like @LASandOtto said, we are in this together, and this is where the strength is to be found at times when we may lack it ourselves xxx

Hahaha yes, rant over! Let's focus on what we can be grateful for!!

@Avocuddles yes I'm similar to you in that respect. Giving advice to others seems much easier than giving (and internalising) advice to myself. I always feel a feel-food factor though from helping others, doesn't matter with what. Other people's happiness makes me feel happy too.

I also work away from time to time, I work in travel and have spells where I'm barely at home for weeks at a time. Doesn't make the TTC journey any more relaxing and my DH also works in travel. Many perks associated with our jobs but being at home at the same time all the times isn't one of them!!

@MrsMGE so we put a bid in to two places. One house is just opposite a park (which I would enjoy as I love running and walking). It wouldn't need much work doing at all as it's right up our street in terms of style. Option to purchase the section of garden currently owned by the upstairs freeholder as they cannot really access their share without major faff so they're keen to sell it to us. The second house (well they are flats, let's be realistic I'm in London and not a millionaire) needs more work doing as it's been rented and just generally unloved, owned by a guy, style not our taste so we could make it our own which is exciting. The bonus with this one is it has a summer house which already has full plumbing etc and was used as office, with a bathroom etc and it's fully accessible from a side entrance so self contained. Could actually do that up and rent it out as a weekend Airbnb. I always wanted to have my own business so this wouldn't be a bad start as long term we want to set up our own holiday rental.

Had offer accepted yesterday on the flat with summer house, the other one opposite the park was going to let us know their decision today. Potentially might end up being accepted on both and then having to make a choice, aaaaaaahhhh!

I'm really excited either way!!! X

@LASandOtto both houses sound great, I love the idea of the summer house, although the park is also tempting.....let us know how you get on, it's an exciting / nerve wracking situation to be in!

As a mental health nurse myself I will say in general the system is just trying to stay afloat. It doesn't work. Health care professionals out of mental health services don't really get more then a days training on mental health and feel ill equipped speaking to people regarding MH in general (there are still the amazing occasional few). Mental health services year by year is getting it's funding cut where as the amount of people trying to access it has increased. So the only people that really get the care are the ones in crisis. The ones who have tried to harm themselves or others. All the evidence indicates early intervention and treatment proactively preventing people from deteriorating mental is far less costly on the economy, families and financially on the NHS. But it's a huge outlay initially that they won't look at long term. So all the treatment facilities that look at helping people one to one prior to crisis have been slowly shut in the last decade. Home treatment has been cut. Waiting times have dramatically increased. And it's awful. GPs just throw antidepressants at people without trying to get to the root cause of the problem and reluctant to refer to other services as the appointment is 10minutes and the rarely know the person that well... And is 10minutes an adequate time to open your soul to a total stranger. The NHS is so reliant on volunteer services such as MIND and other mental health services that provide care but don't have the money to support these services. I run a charity for women with perinatal mental health problems and the mother and baby unit and GPS all refer the women to us but refuse to offer anything to support the group's we do, and complain that the women say it's too full or that we should have a cut off at the age of the baby etc. But we won't turn anyone one away. The system doesn't work, everyone knows it doesn't work, but everyone tries their best to provide the best service possible. But without funding, without adequate staff, with ridiculous politics it's so hard to support people in crisis besides the ones that are struggling but still manage to function.

I was sure I’d replied yesterday but can’t see it now

Thanks @Avocuddles It is difficult but I realise I just have to accept it is part of life and remember they are nothing to do with my DD. Today an email went around as a colleague on mat leave must have had a baby. It was “X’s new arrival” or something is I just deleted it. My (probably) PMT hormones didn’t need that and she dumped me with lots of messy files when she left so I’m not a fan of hers at the moment!

Hope everyone else is having a good week

@Sunflower1608 your explanation from your viewpoint is really helpful yet equally sad to read. More often than not it's never the individuals (who suffer not being able to do their job properly without sufficient support) but the systems that fails. Organisations are so slow sometimes!!! Thanks for all you do for mental health in what you do! 

How are you feeling @MrsMGE? Was thinking of you today!

Hope everyone else is fine! X

Hi @Sunflower1608. Just wanted to say thank you and well done for running the group, I wish there were more of them and more people within the NHS understanding the issues and driving the change. It is a shame you the support from above is inadequate, but don't give up - what you're doing is so needed, and no doubt very much appreciated. You are the one making a real difference.

Hey @LASandOtto! I'm a bit better I think, CD3 tomorrow, so it's kind of going fast. I'm extremely busy in work at the moment, which is quite good actually. Going to yoga tomorrow eve, and I went to my local Buddhist centre to try meditation. I enjoyed the meditation itself and it made me feel much calmer, but I didn't like the gentleman running it. I might give it a go again with someone else running it. Do you have any good free meditation apps to recommend? Also your house offers situation is great, it's a win-win really! Did you have the other one accepted? Xxx

Morning all,

Scan was weird yesterday - although there was a 2mm fetal pole there this time the Nurse said not to get hopes up as measurements are so behind - the pregnancy sac is measuring super small. She is surprised I haven't started bleeding but I explained to her how last time I went on for a further month whilst waiting for the ERPC not bleeding. Next scan on the 11th Nov at 11am so I suppose at least I will have some perspective to consider whilst being scanned.

Regarding the MH service - it is a joke. I actually have MH problems that I was under a consultant for and regularly saw MH professionals which I did find really good (wait to get there was awful though) but since losing Roy I have been discharged and told they will no longer support me because they do not and can not deal with baby loss grief. So now I am alone with my MH issues at a very vulnerable time.

Brilliant regarding the house @LASandOtto !

@Sunflower1608 it is brilliant you do what you do - but be so tough but you are amazing, thank you. Just wish there was help for you to provide that service!

@MrsMGE that is interesting regarding the meditation, do you do any other sort of alternative things? My friend said maybe I should give a few different things a try but not sure what (accupuncture scares me)

@TwittleBee hope you're ok after yesterday, there is nothing more frustrating than an inconclusive scan. If this is what you suspect then I hope it doesn't drag on too long, but of course still crossing fingers for a positive result. How far along should you be now?
Your story re your MH treatment is shocking. I can't comprehend how they could justify discharging you at such a difficult time. If it is possible for you I would definitely look to find some support privately if you are struggling to access it via the NHS. As you say this a vulnerable time and you shouldn't need to suffer alone. Or alternatively keep harassing your GP to find you an appropriate service for all of your needs.

Re acupuncture, I was terrified the first time I went but it turned out be nowhere near as bad as I expected. The first session mostly involved talking, it was only at the end that she put in a couple of needles to see how I found it. The therapists should be experienced in dealing with people who are anxious so if you do fancy it I'm sure they will be very understanding and supportive to ensure your experience is ok. For the first few sessions I was a bit on edge but quickly learned to relax in spite of my reservations.

@ReeRi @Sunflower1608 @VenusStarr @LASandOtto @MrsMGE I hope you are all having an good day / week.

Good morning!!

@MrsMGE unfortunately no, don't know of any free apps. I pay for Calm but I use it quite a bit - in the evenings sometimes when I cannot get to sleep, I put on one of the sleep stories. I also use it for flight anxiety (and I fly for work almost monthly so... yep great choice of job) as they have specific topics to cover different things. I really enjoy it as it does have a very complete package.

I'm soooooooo happy you went to the Buddhist centre and enjoyed the meditation itself. Yes do try a different host of the session as I have a lady I like very much - if anyone can embody calm, it is her!!

Enjoy yoga today as well!!!

I went for a glass at the gym yesterday and might do my own workout today, have plans still from my old PT which I might tackle. Tomorrow I'm working from home so will do a lunch time lap of the park or something.

Been thinking of getting a dog when we move, I really love animals and we used to have a dog but our current flat is tiny and no garden so didn't want to make a poor animal suffer. I find animals so therapeutic as well, just such wonderful beings and company as well.

@TwittleBee I think we all can relate being in your shoes with the inconclusive scans, the waiting - it is so tough mentally, times doesn't pass! I hope you are ok as you can be, sending you a big hug virtually. Like @Avocuddles says it may be a positive end, and I also cannot believe what happened after you lost Roy. That is disgusting and so not right. Have you thought about any private options?
I've been researching acupuncture since it was mentioned on here but have yet to take the plunge.

Today had the good old static smiley back on my display, ohhh it has been a while. I presume if first day of MC is CD1, then today I'd be CD18. Quite amazed how quickly the body goes back to normal, well, in my case this month it seems to have done so.

Hope everyone else is ok @Sunflower1608 @ReeRi @Mumlili8 @VenusStarr x

@TwittleBee That's an absolute outrage that they said that to you, this is the time you definitely should be under professional MH care and support! It's beyond belief.

I'm sorry you have to be looking after yourself on your own and actively seek various options. I do acupuncture as well which really isn't as scary as lots of people think because the needles are absolutely tiny. It's nothing like having a blood test. You feel a tiny sensation for a split second, then I personally feel a flow of energy around my body which is a pleasant sensation. I just shut my eyes and relax, don't even look at what is being done. It worked so, so well for me. It doesn't resolve MH issues, but it gives your body and mind an energy boost to deal with them, as well as everything else that is going on. I can't recommend it enough.

I also do conception reflexology which by the looks of things helped with regulating my cycles after the MC. I also find it relaxing, it's basically a nice feet massage.

I do yoga, I jog sometimes (but not now, too cold and I'm definitely not a runner), and I'm going back to pilates from next week.

I am on a lookout for a free meditation app and will share with you all if I find a decent one. I'll be doing 5 mins meditations every time I feel down or when I feel something triggering me is happening/about to happen. At least this will make things easier and manageable for me till I start counselling through a charity next year.

Hope this helps, fire away any questions you may have.

PS - This is the most I've ever done for me and for my MH. It took me 33 years to get here, but you know, despite being poorly following baby loss, I am glad I'm doing this for myself. It was a long time coming and I've been lying to myself and pretending I don't need looking after. I do, we all do, and it feels good. Xxx

@LASandOtto Thanks lovely. I recommend you have a look for an acupuncturist specialising in fertility in your area and spill it all out - they normally ask questions and listen to your answers, what brought you there, how are you feeling, what your expectations are, before they proceed. It is a very important part of the session because they identify which points in your body need to be activated so be totally honest to make sure they can help you best.

Re pets, I'm a mum to a dog and two cats and I love them to bits, they bring so much joy to my life it's unbelievable. I think I'd freak out by now if it wasn't for them. My maternal instinct definitely covers them and they are the most loved pets in the world. My cats even go for walks with us and the dog and we all holiday together 😂 Team cuddles are the best as well ❤️ Can't wait to add a human baby to this fabulous gang one day xxx

@MrsMGE your pet family sounds great, I am very envious of your team cuddles! Our jobs / commitments mean that pets aren't really feasible for us at the moment though we do have a number of friends and family members with dogs so we do get our share of waggy tailed hugs.

Think I may have shared this before but as it's been mentioned a few times recently, this link shows acupuncturists trained in fertility and reproductive health across the UK and Ireland.
Each of my sessions involves a conversation of around 20-30 minutes before the treatment - be prepared to be open and honest about everything from emotions to bowel movements and they'll tailor your needle points accordingly....

www.zitawest.com/network/

One of my furbabes giving my a cuddle on cd1 this week ❤️ I have 2 cats and their unconditional love is getting me through. Sorry I'm quiet, thanks for tagging / thinking of me. It's our due date on Saturday and I think it's hitting me 💔

@Twittlebee I'm so sorry you're in limbo. Your scan yesterday was exactly like my two and its heartbreaking. Sending lots of love xxx

I'm still reading everything but struggling to contribute but hope you're all OK @Avocuddles @LASandOtto @ReeRi @MrsMGE @Sunflower1608 xx

@MrsMGE ohhhhhh how lovely!!!!!!!! My mum has a cat (he is called Samson), he we a rescue and we've had him for 7 years now. He is the light of her life (and ours when we are in Spain with her), I cannot even say how much having Samson has kept my mother together after my dad passed and just all the shit that's generally happened the last few years to her. I love cats, and dogs.

Where did you get your pets from and how do you manage the day to day with work and the dog, for example?

@VenusStarr I'm thinking of you!! Due dates are so heartbreaking, especially when nothing has happened that could shine some light on a dark day like that. My first due date was my other half's birthday in September, at which point I was pregnant but having MC2. So bleak! We just went out for the day and kept ourselves distracted as best as we could but it was hard. Will you be doing something or just see how you feel??

@Avocuddles thanks again for that link to Zita West, I'll take a look at that tonight to see what's in my area as I'd like it close to home. Hope you're ok otherwise?

Xxx

Definitely and advocate for furbabies. The love you get from them is incomparible. And I feel I get out alot more and being away from chores, work and people in nature is so good for my MH as well as physical health. I have 3 and we foster one as well for a local charity. We have a little spaniel pup at the min which is adorable and so loving. My partner wants to keep her but I think I would struggle with 4 kids, 4 dogs and keeping house. But on the other hand I feel like I've put my life on hold for the last 18months. I used to compete in running and CrossFit and not signed up to anything in case I fell pregnant. Advised social situations and now turning down this pup. It's hard

@Sunflower1608 how lovely and yes, it is good for mental healthy to be out in nature and reconnect with it. I really feel the same way, I love being outside.

So nice that you also do fostering, I did that with cats when I was in Germany and barely was able to handle saying goodbye.

Putting life on hold - yes, I know what you mean. I've decided that I can be good and enjoy life and still hope for a baby one day. I'd feel even more rubbish if I deprived myself of everything, it would make me miserable. Balance is key, and that's what should be a focus, remaining level headed somehow throughout all the pain.

Xx

@MrMGE Hope you enjoyed yoga. You all know I enjoy it and DH has recently started doing it at work!

@TwittleBee Sorry you are dealing with. Hopefully it will help to know what’s going on soon.

@Avocuddles hope you’re ok. I am still tempted to try acupuncture following your recommendation.

@LASandOtto Well done on the static smiley and good luck this cycle! I agree with what you say about not putting everything on hold for TTC.

I have the first signs of AF today but this is no surprise as I have had awful PMT for about a week!

@ReeRi do it! I highly recommend Caitlin Allen's practice, all three therapists are lovely and very knowledgable.

I'm ok thanks. Although we're not TTC until after my next AF I am using OPKs to try to get a sense of whether I'm actually ovulating. I've had quite a lot of CM over the past few days but the lines aren't getting any darker frustratingly. Only using cheapies this month as my clearblue digital habit has been costing me a fortune! A good dark line would make me feel so much happier that my body is functioning 'properly' but looks like this month could be going the same way as the last one......

Awww @Venusstarr isn't she gorgeous 😍 I'm sorry you're not doing very well atm, that's completely understandable. Nothing I'd say now would take the sadness of this milestone away. I think the only way of getting through it is not to fear it and really let yourself live through it, experience the feelings you need to. It might not be as scary as you think now, I hope this will prove to be the case for you ❤️

@ReeRi I didn't end up going because my AF is still quite heavy, but luckily not too painful anymore. I've booked for next week and it's definitely happening then! Off to meditate before going to bed now 😊 How are you?

@Sunflower1608 I'd say go for it and keep her. When the baby comes, you'll make it work. You know you will! DHs can always be persuaded 😉

@Avocuddles Have you thought about visiting a local charity, e.g. a dogs home? You can take dogs for walks and visit them without commuting to adopting - I did that when we lived in a flat and it was fab. Bless them, they yearn human contact ❤️

@LASandOtto All of mine are rescues. We have two cats from a local cat sanctuary and a dog from a dog's trust. One of the cats is an oldie and the mother to the rest of the gang. She's gorgeous, gentle and loving. The other one is a kitten, so mischievous and fun, such a character. And my dog is a kind, gentle, beautiful soul. He was abused when he was young, found on the streets and joined us when he was 4 years old. He's my sweetheart and it's wonderful to watch him happy and enjoying life. He's still nervous, but he's changed so much since we've had him, I'm a proud mummy ❤️ The cats are absolutely fine throughout the day, and so is the dog - he can actually last 12 hours without going to the toilet. But I'm pretty lucky that my DH works 10 mins away from home - so he pops in on his lunch break and he's back home at 5.10pm (the joy of working in a public sector!). But our neighbours have a smaller dog who definitely needs to go out more (tiny bladder) and they just got a dog walked to take him out around midday on weekdays - no problem at all 😊 xxx

committing not commuting and dog walker not dog walked, sorry about the typos!

It's been a while since I've been on this. We've been trying not to conceive before tests have been done for recurrent miscarriage. I wonder if anyone has had these tests? I got one blood result back and I'm deficient in vit D. The genetic report has confused me too. I was measuring 10 weeks and could see a baby in scans and the report says only placenta and 'microscopic' products of conception were found. How could that be? (Had surgical management) It also said it had no answers so nhs are paying for us to have genetic testing done. I think they have made a mistake. I'm a bit angry tbh. Can't wait to actually speak to someone properly. 😞 I hope everyone has been good. Hoping to get back on this chat with some good news soon.

@MrsMGE oh how lovely ❤️❤️ my DH's brother lives in the countryside and him and his wife are paw-rents as well, they've got a beautiful 8 year old springer spaniel - Harry- and recently about a year ago took on another puppy springer spaniel - Teddy - and I just adore them both. They're so wonderful to be around. I'm not at all surprised how a lot of therapy centres around spending time with animals.

I'm really thinking about it once we've moved and have more space. The only deterrent so far has been a small flat and also our work schedules, however, we've been discussing doing more days from home so my DH and I could alternate on days.

How is everything else this morning and what are weekend plans?

We've DTD yesterday and today on static smiley days although I wasn't going to put any pressure on us but we fancied it so what not!

Feel a massive cold coming, luckily this weekend will be spent with very little plans at the moment.

@futuredreams sorry to read about your recent surgical management. Not wanting to be insensitive with comments, I haven't had 3 miscarriages, so far just 2 (I'd be so happy if it stayed that way). I'm sorry for your losses and I'm sure someone might be able to give more insight as I haven't had any testing done yet. I've got an appointment however on 22/11 for private tests. X

Update : don't think it's was ovulation after all I have the worst cold I've ever had in my life. Temp has steadily climbed from 36.58 to today's high of 37.45. Have to apart from feeling like death warmed up I'm a bit gutted really.
How are all you lovely ladies doing?

@mumlili8 sorry you're feeling so rough. The illness will no doubt be affecting your temps so probably best to not to read too much into them one way or the other, you never know? I hope you feel better soon.

@futuredreams I'm not surprised you're frustrated by the inconsistent messages you've received. I hope the next appointments are more useful. I haven't officially had recurrent miscarriage tests as I'm also in the 'only two' club but I have had a number of them for fertility / personal health reasons. Some of the key tests are for clotting disorders, I have a history of clotting so have already been following that protocol in my unsuccessful pregnancies, and I've also been tested for thyroid and (I think?) vitamin D which have been ok. When will you get the results of the rest of your tests?

@MrsMGE voluntary dog walking is a great idea. There's a dogs trust shelter near us and it is something we have contemplated in the past but not got round to, so I'll look into how we can support them.

First of four busy weekends away coming up! Down to London tomorrow to catch up with three school friends which should be nice. Lots of time on the train to read too which is always welcome, just hope it stops pouring with rain!