TTC after pregnancy loss 32 - the penguin huddle

[ReeReeR]

New thread 🐧🐧🐧

I have accidentally created a thread 33 as well but will delete that!

Oh @TwittleBee 😢 I'm so sorry lovely, that's terrible news. I hope you're keeping well, as well as you can, of course. Please talk to us whenever you feel like. You're not alone. Sending you a big, big hug ❤️ xxxx

I'm so sorry @Twittlebee ❤️ sending love xxx

Morning, thank you all for having me back.

Does anyone else suffer with this stupid hope in situations like this? I feel like a fool, cant shake off that maybe they will see my baby's heart suddenly beating next scan

@TwittleBee that not a stupid thing to hope at all. What did they say to you? Are you going back in a week or two to confirm one way or the other? Have you passed tissue yet or waiting to see what happens?
If it isn't 100% certain yet I really hope that you still get a positive result. Waiting and not knowing clearly one way or the other is such a painful experience which I'm sure a lot of us here can relate to xx

@Avocuddles I just dont think there can be hope though, rational part of me is reminding me how this happened last year - I was measuring 3 weeks behind and unless my DH has super sperm I am sure of our dates. But then I am holding hope because this cant be happening again surely. It was a private scan yesterday, was a horrible experience too, and have a NHS scan tomorrow morning with a follow up on Tuesday next week.

@TwittleBee both of my miscarriages have been similar so I can sympathise with how you must be feeling. With the 2nd one there was a heartbeat at a private scan at 7 weeks, but it was measuring 10 days behind and like you I was certain on my dates so knew in my heart that it wasn't going to work out. I started bleeding a couple of days after that scan and fully miscarried 6 days later. With the first one the heartbeat had already stopped by the time I had a scan (again at about 7 weeks) and I miscarried the following day. It feels to awful to have gone through that same experience twice and I feel like I'll definitely be expecting it if we conceive again. How far along are you? If you are less than 6 weeks there may be more hope as it's not always possible to see a heartbeat by then and measurements may not be as accurate?

That’s a lovely story @MrsMGE

I don’t know if it’s because I’m hormonal (probably PMT!) or because being hormonal this way probably also means I’m not pregnant but it’s really bothering me that someone who sits about four metres away from me is pregnant. She doesn’t work in my team but she’s obviously in the same area physically. It’s not just a “I want to be pregnant” it’s also that pregnancy and babies remind me of my pregnancy with my baby and sometimes it just makes my stomach lurch almost.

It’s probably because I’m hormonal.

@TwittleBee ps I will be arguing like hell for an early nhs scan next time as like you I really didn't enjoy the private experience - they were trying to congratulate me and all they would say is 'you must have your dates wrong' whilst I was expressing my concerns. If they were that wrong then I would have had my BFP on the same day I'd conceived - erm I don't think so!!!!

Oh @ReeRi I'm sorry you're feeling that way. The woman who sits directly behind me is six months pregnant and beginning to support a very visible bump which I'm finding hard to watch develop as neither of my babies made it that far but I would have been in the third trimester now too. I imagine it must be very triggering for you given your heartbreaking experience.
I hope that the hormones are pregnancy ones rather than PMT, but if AF does arrive I hope that it signals the start of the cycle that brings you your baby

Girls, shit day alert. AF is definitely on the way and I thought it wouldn't hit me this month, but it did all over again. It seems I can't win, no matter if I am positive, negative, neutral, if I expect something or not, if I am having a healthy month or not so much, it's just bonkers. Nothing.fucking.happening. Argh, I feel like screaming in the middle of the city right now, I have no idea what to do anymore. Sorry I know I'm ranting and it could be worse. Xxx

@MrsMGE never apologise for ranting, that's exactly what this place is for! It's natural to feel angry, upset, disappointed, frustrated...but try not to think in terms of things you did or didn't do, there is no point (or truth) in placing blame on yourself. The longer this journey goes on the more I believe that the best thing to do is to try to look after yourself and try to enjoy life (oh and have plenty of sex....!). Let today be your shit day and as I said to @ReeRi hopefully tomorrow will be the start of the cycle where it all works out for you. I really hope we have a glut of BFPs before this year is through!

@MrsMGE lovely, you are totally allowed to feel fcking angry. AF arriving just means you're hope there may be a BFP awaiting is crushed and it's to be expected to feel like nothing is going to work out - ever! I know deep down you know it's not that way. It will work out. I don't want to be annoyingly positive when you're feeling this way as I know that can be irritating (I've been there), so wanted to send a hug, wanted to say I get the rage, I think if AF comes for me in a few weeks I'll be soooo annoyed as well. Thinking of you xxx

Oh @TwittleBee I'm so sorry this is happening again. Thinking of you.

I'm aching so much for a BFP but then terrified of it to, as not sure how I will get through the first couple of months of anxiety, second guessing every symptom and overwhelming fear or going the lol and finding blood.

I had a nightmare a couple of weeks ago that has really shook me up. In it I gave birth to a tiny baby, the size of the palm of my hand but I can't connect with her as no one will tell me her name. And this desperation to just know her name chased me through the entire dream. My ex husband (who I associate with fear) takes her off me as he knows her name, and I go somewhere secluded to end my life, but I have my dogs with me so go and steal her back and find her asleep on an old fashioned radiator. And I'm just sat there sobbing with her in my hands crying because I don't know her name.

The day after I had my first AF since my MC. The sadness from the dream has just haunted me since 😔

@Sunflower1608 your dream sounds awful, I'm not surprised it left you shook up! I guess our subconscious does some weird stuff when we've been through something traumatic. I hope it was a one off and you never have anything similar again. Without prying into details, have you had counselling re your ex husband? My DH is my second, and it took me a long time to get past the trauma of my first marriage. I know it's not for everyone but I found therapy very helpful to let go of the pain associated with that part of my life.

I know what you mean about aching for a BFP but also being terrified at the same time. I just wish I knew whether I will ever manage to take a pregnancy all the way - I'm struggling to visualise ever getting beyond the first trimester at the moment and know that if I do get pregnant again I will 100% be on symptom watch! I wish you good luck and that you manage to feel a release from your current sadness x

@Avocuddles I tried to get counselling regarding him from Savannah about 3 years ago but the counsellor made some really inappropriate comments that kind of broke my trust in her, I requested another one but then I went through 3 as they kept giving me ones that were leaving. I kind of just gave up.
I felt like I had got over things but have over time realised I'm very much good at compartmentalizing and putting my emotions in little boxes and never dealing with them and a bit obsessive over being in complete control of every aspect of my life. I have improved and healed quite a bit with the help of my current partner. The biggest deal was the decision to have another child. My previous 3 pregnancies were quite traumatic, my first I was only 17. My next 2 was with my ex and he was an alcoholic and drug addict as well abusive. So I was very anti further kids due to how vulnerable you feel when pregnant. So the decision to have a child with my partner was huge. And then how long it actually took to get pregnant followed by the miscarriage has all been emotionally quite turbulent. My partner has been lovely and remains so positive, but I find the positivity hard to deal with to.

Oh God @Sunflower1608 your nightmare sounds to me like a flashback. Have you been checked for PTSD?
I'm only saying this because I suspect I have it and I've been reading about this. Big hugs to you, take it easy until you feel you regained a bit more energy after you've been left shaken by it.

Thanks for your support girls @Avocuddles @LASandOtto. I am now pretty convinced I have PTSD as I just had another AF-related trigger. I basically think every AF is a MC, I have this association in my head because I have very heavy AFs. It adds the whole new dimension on top of the sadness and anger of TTC not succeeding 😔 xxx

So sorry Twittlebee

I had my erpc on Friday and it was fine. Everyone was lovely. Physically I feel back to normal but my head is a mess.
I definitely had some symptoms of PTSD after my 1st MC and I can feel myself slipping back. It's so hard to have to deal with that on top of everything else.

@MrsMGE the fact that you are acknowledging that the way you are feeling is unhealthy is a positive thing as there are certainly approaches you may be able to try. EMDR has a good track record for helping women (and their partners) deal with miscarriage / baby loss related PTSD and is worth considering if you haven't already www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.todaysparent.com/family/family-health/this-therapy-gives-hope-to-parents-after-traumatic-birth-experiences/amp/
DH and I found a local therapist who was experienced in this method who we visited after the second miscarriage. Although she was qualified in EMDR it wasn't right for our particular situation but a CBT (talking) based session was very helpful for us at a really difficult time...

@MrsMGE @CharlieWeasley @Sunflower1608 I hope you all have lots of support round you, you have been through awful times and you deserve some peace and happiness x

Can any of you lovely ladies figure out what on earth is happening to my cycle and is there even the slightest hope.

@Mumlili8 sorry, I am not great with these sort of charts. Hope one of the other girls can assist! 🤞🏻

@Sunflower1608 the nightmare is really scary. I'm sorry for all you've been through. It really doesn't cease to amaze me what all you ladies have been through already and here we all are on this threads, still trying to give each other hope and support!

@MrsMGE regarding PTSD, that is certainly something to have reviewed. If over a period of weeks you feel no improvement in your state then I'd discuss this with your GP - do you have a good and understanding doctor? Perhaps one who is also focused on obstetrics? Or maybe check with Tommy's who can assist as well?

The first step is always to acknowledge your feelings and to NOT brush them under the carpet. Keep a diary of how you feel, how your mood is. This will also help explain your state when seeing the GP? I'm thinking of you! AF arriving has probably triggered a lot of what your feeling?

@avocuddles how are you feeling? You're always very supportive on this thread, just wanted to thank you for that and for being there ❤️

I've had a good day today, house offer accepted, work was good as well. Had a nice chat with my friend who is now 7 weeks, and we said we'd meet up when she is back from a trip to see family in the US in a couple of weeks.

@CharlieWeasley sending a big hug. Look after yourself after the ERPC. It is probably the kind option physically as it's over 'quickly' but I found emotionally it was very weird, suddenly you wake up and it's all 'over'. In that respect I almost preferred (if I can say that in this sad scenario of finding myself there) my natural second MC. I felt I had more closure.

Big hugs to all of you on here xx

@LASandOtto @Avocuddles A lot of wisdom from you both, as always, thank you. Yes, I did read about EMDR (I am considering this for early next year) and yes, AF has definitely triggered me today. Randomly, I started writing a diary on my lunch break today, before LASandOtto mentioned it - great minds, eh! I am going back to acupuncture soon as a "here and now" fix, I'll go to my GP next month if nothing improves (I did see a MH nurse, but she was dismissive of the PTSD idea because "it's too soon to diagnose" and "I need time to grieve" and in any event the therapy waiting list is 2 years (!!!). She said to come back next year unless I feel suicidal. So that's not helpful. I'll get counselling through a local baby loss charity, but not till next year, so it would be good to have something in place for now. The sad conclusion is that there is a lot of talk about MH and how it is "OK not to be OK" and seek support, but when you finally pluck up the courage to admit you may need help, the help isn't there. I paid tons of money in taxes into this ill-considered system and that one time when I need help, it isn't there. I call bullshit. I am in a privileged position now where I could seek help privately in a couple of months time if nothing improves. But that's not the point, I worked hard to be where I am and be able to provide for my family and I shouldn't be forced to fork out hundreds of pounds a month on therapy that should be available to all grieving parents. How is this issue not recognised? Surely baby loss is up there in terms of the worst possible thinfs that can happen in life? What about those of us who really cannot afford to get the help they need? It's a joke. I am so disappointed and feel we're all falling through the net. How can the successive governments and the NHS be so blind? Surely I am not the only one feeling this way, it's outrageous. Xxx

@MrsMGE good morning first of all, just messaging on my way to work.

Your sentiment about the amount of waiting time will be well shared with a lot of people. I'm sure pretty much every single one of us on this thread has been in hour, week and month long waiting time loop, NHS related. On one of my visits to the EPU for the dreaded scan, where minutes seem like hours anyway, I was waiting for 4.5 hours. To say I was a nervous wreck at that stage is an understatement!!!
Waiting times for counselling services are ridiculous, I agree. It's concerning to say the least - at least we (I would also be able to afford private counselling, and feel lucky to be in that situation - but have worked for it too) can afford to pay for counselling if need be. What happens to people who cannot?! I think the long waiting times in themselves are a deterrent for most to even consider 'speaking up'. It's not the fault of the NHS - I think I've met a lot of great doctors on my journey so far. The fault is that the system is antiquated and the government doesn't address it, we are probably just waiting for an implosion. Mental health should be offered alongside physical treatment straight away in my opinion? It should be opt out, not opt in.

May I add in German and in Germany you pay much higher taxes for the health system but at least it works - there's waiting times but we are talking reasonable in most places. At least when I was still there years and years ago. I'd rather pay more for something that worked than less for something that's not reliable.

I hear you is what I'm saying. Focus on yourself now. There is anger in us compounded by now being in a situation where attaining any help seems like an uphill struggle on top of it all! You're brave and you're taking lots of steps already. Try your here and now solutions like acupuncture for now, do try meditation via an app as well - happy to talk you through sitting positions and atmosphere set up if you wanted to consider it. Fresh air daily, treat yourself to something to look ahead to.

I know you may feel like you're stuck right now and there's no way but there is. Remember that there is a lot of shit going on on this planet and we will handle this, together, and be here for each other, any day! X

@MrsMGE I whole heartedly agree with you around the difficulty of accessing mental health support on the NHS in general. My sister has a long term history of mental health issues along with chronic pain and hasn't worked for a number of years but the only support she gets is prescription after prescription of pills.... In terms of baby loss i would imagine the benefits to the economy in terms of productivity / getting people back to work would hugely outweigh the cost of offering at least one session to those who could benefit from it.
I am fortunate enough to have been able to pay privately for counselling at different points down the years, as well as ongoing acupuncture, but I know plenty would struggle to find what can quickly add up to a couple of hundred pounds a month. I also appreciate that I'm fortunate to live in a city where I have easy access to specialists within a ten minute drive, and that in other areas there may not be any provision at all. I do recommend you look into private support if it available near you and something that you can afford, as it's not fair for you to keep feeling this way - life is too short and precious for that.

@LASandOtto thanks for asking after me. I'm ok thanks. In all walks of life I tend to be the one who is very level headed and good at mentoring and offering advice and support to others, yet a bit rubbish at looking after myself! At the moment I'm pretty good though we are very very busy over the next few weeks so wouldn't have time to devote to baby making even if we wanted to. Taking two months out from TTC has been a really good decision from a mental health perspective. I've still had some really low days in particular after pregnancy announcements, but overall I'm in a better place than I was after the first miscarriage when all I could focus on was that next BFP.
We plan to start TTC again next cycle which will hopefully be within the next three to four weeks. I'm on CD14 now, my shortest cycle since stopping the mini pill was 32 days and average 38-42 so we'll see. I'm working away week commencing 25th November so hoping ovulation isn't until the following week!

@LASandOtto I too lived in several EU countries before and the health system was better everywhere, to be honest. There are some good professionals within the NHS, but in my experience I haven't come across many of them, and like you said the waiting lists aren't acceptable. It's the dismissive approach that really gets me too, I am sure a lot of the time it is adopted for the wrong reasons, i.e. to save the NHS money. By not addressing MH issues, they are spending more on cardiovascular problems, obesity and eating disorders, digestive system diseases, you name it, this is all correlated. It's such a short sighted approach, I find it baffling and unacceptable. In my view, most of this is a result of poor management within the NHS, not just the government cuts, although they do make it more challenging. NHS for many years had a culture of poor strategic planning and inefficiency typical in the public sector. I worked a lot with the NHS in the past and it never ceased to amaze me how long it takes to get any decision approved and anything done. If private sector was run like this, the entire economy would collapse within months. That's not a good picture and it is us, the patients, who pay the ultimate price.

I wholeheartedly agree that MH support should be available immediately after baby loss as a package, with an opt out or an option to delay it if required. It would significantly reduce the risk of issues further down the line, increase people's productivity, improve wellbeing and release the pressure otherwise building up on the NHS. It's a no-brainer, and yet, where is it? Xxx