TTC after pregnancy loss 32 - the penguin huddle

[ReeReeR]

New thread 🐧🐧🐧

I have accidentally created a thread 33 as well but will delete that!

@Mumlili8 it looks really lovely! I hope you have a relaxing time, I hope you manage to switch off from the pains from this year for a while, even if just for a few moments! You really deserve it!

@Avocuddles I can imagine how life threatening medical conditions will have meant your perspective has changed. I think any and all life events that are serious have a marked impact on us. After such experiences we do tend to emerge with a different lookout, a different appreciation of life, people, situations. I feel glad for some of the testing life experiences I've so far been through, I think they've helped me cope better today when things happen that are difficult.

@MrsMGE I think your mindset is great. This is exactly what I was learning during meditation - do not be unkind to yourself. Learn to be kind to yourself. Don't be harsh with your mind or body because you didn't do something, didn't follow through with a plan. I think most humans with high empathy and emotional intelligence already struggle to find time for their own state of mind, as they're so busy focusing on others. So be kind by being kind to yourself too!

Weight is just a number. I never get on the scales anymore. When I had my eating disorder they controlled my life. I now go by how I feel. Today we went for a gorgeous 2 hour walk in a new area, fresh air was like a massage for the mind, we had a really nice chat and just a nice day out! I feel like a new woman after that.

One step at a time, I think slowly introducing feel good factors in our lives doing things we enjoy is the way forward. Little by little!

How have you found your DH's have coped with your MCs?

Hope you all had a good Sunday! X

@LASandOtto Thanks! Exactly, I agree with you, just no pressure. Weight/size really isn't the most important thing in the world, but I only started realising this now, at 33, and after my MMC. I guess, despite the fact I'm disappointed that my body deceived me by not giving me a clue that the pg was not viable, I'm also impressed with how it survived the really bad night of medical management. I need to respect it, as ultimately it will carry me through hopefully many more years (and hopefully, my healthy baby one day, too ❤️). DH and I also had a lovely day today, spent most of the day outside, walking, had a nice healthy lunch, and cooked up some lovely, healthy meals for the week. We also had a nap and a doughnut each to balance it out, haha! But overall, I'm in a slightly better mood, ready to face a very busy week in work.

You know, I too went through a period of time too when I was younger of not eating/forcing myself to be sick because I was so obsessed with trying to be skinny. It didn't last long, but it was awful and I never want to go back there. This is one of the reasons why I'm trying hard not to fall into another trap of obsessing with something else again (it used to be my job and career then, and now hopefully it won't be TTC).

You asked about my DH. He's a bit older than me, a happy go lucky kind of person, glass always half full. He doesn't stay upset for long and isn't religious or spiritual. He didn't grieve openly, we talked about it, but I think that to him it was a loss of pregnancy, whereas I feel I lost my baby, a person. He's just optimistic that we'll get pg soon and it will all be fine. I'm realistic and aware of the challenges, risks and time this may take. What is your DH like? Xxx

@LASandOtto my DH tries to be strong and not show emotion, hate to say this but I think it is a typically 'male' behaviour, probably a social expectation thing? During the physical process of both miscarriages he has been very calm and supportive, however the day after the first loss he caught the train to go to work but broke down in tears whilst walking to his office so turned around and went straight home where we had a bit of a cry together. After the second miscarriage he hasn't cried at all, I found that quite upsetting at the time as I (mis)interpreted his lack of outward emotion as meaning that he wasn't feeling the same level of acute pain that I was. I talked about how that made me feel when we went for a therapy session, and he pointed out quite accurately that he didn't really cry when his dad unexpectedly passed away three years ago, and a lack of tears doesn't equal a lack of pain or sadness. He is quite nervous about the thought of me being pregnant after hearing the consultant talking about my blood clot history and the risk associated with that - my illness happened five years before we met so I don't think he'd quite appreciated how serious it had been until the doctor was reading through my notes at our first consultation. DH himself had a very unexpected heart attack a few years ago at just 33 (our baby really won't be blessed with great family medical history....) so his outlook on life is very much to be grateful for every day we have. He's quite supportive of my decision to take another month off TTC, he wants me to be happy above anything else, though he really would make an amazing Dad. We visited two separate friends with little ones today and he's brilliant with all of them. I hope so much he gets the chance to have his own soon......

@MrsMGE your DH sounds like he processed events similar to mine. My DH is a really positive person, he tends to not worry about things until the moment worry is in order, you won't see him researching statistics or fretting. Quite different to me, but that's probably what makes it work quite well. Overall I think he processed the first MC fine, he wasn't outwardly upset. We both sort of resigned ourselves to 'it's one of those things'. Then just 2 weeks after my ERPC we were on a plane to Spain, my dad had been in hospital for an operation, but he went into septic shock and then never woke up again. It was the lowest point being by his bedside for the last few hours he had but my DH was amazing, he was there for my mum, sister and I and just really kept us going those next few days. We don't have any other relatives anymore so, he was amazing. The whole process really brought us very close together. This second MC he was still being positive throughout my spotting. I think I wasn't showing how much the constant worry was getting to me between scans and scans. In the end when we got the sad news we both had a cry at home, and he kept saying he felt stupid that he'd been so hopeful which really killed me, because exactly that positivity is probably what I lacked all those weeks!

@Avocuddles you sound like you've been through a lot already, and then your DH having a heart attack must have been life changing, in so many ways! That must have been a huge shock to him at such a young age! I can imagine that going through all your healthy history and medical notes must have been daunting, probably for both of you. With your blood clot history, what is the suggested treatment during your next pregnancy? My friend had a blood clot and had to inject herself daily I believe.

I'm the same age as you, 33 (for a few more months) and my DH is now 41, so quite a gap between us! I really relate to what you wrote about outward emotion not being at all times reflective of inner emotions, and turmoil. I remember thinking as I was walking around, going to work etc, with my miscarriage just over - how many women are walking around, possibly in the same situation, possible having just been given bad news, and just having to get on with life, because life doesn't stop to make time to process such events, unless you take that time for yourself.

I hope you enjoyed being around newborns and babies today. I always thought maybe I'd struggle with that but it's been quite the opposite for me. In a way I see all the new mums, and I think, with some of my friends I know they struggle they've had to get there, and with some I don't, but I think fertility is not the smooth plain sailing journey that we may sometimes assume it has been for others as well. So with every new mum or pregnant woman I see, I think that they've maybe had their struggle too, and I just wish them well in my mind.

I firmly believe our time will come. Giving up isn't an option for me, now it's lovely to have a break, remember life is not just circling around this one part which is TTC.

We went to see a house yesterday and put an offer in this morning!!! Excited!!! Hope that might happen and we would have a new home to move into in 2020!

Thanks ladies for being here! Always so nice to speak to you all! Xx

@LASandOtto That's really exciting about the house!!! I hope it all works out for you, it's always a long process, but fingers crossed no hiccups and you'll be moving in soon. That's a lovely thing to look forward to.

You haven't had it easy at all then. We lost our close family member and DH's nest friend within 3 months since the MMC. Like you, we don't have close family left apart from DH's grandparents. Sadly, mine passed away years ago, DH's parents are not in the picture (they aren't the nicest of people which resulted in them being estranged from their own parents and most family members - long story) and my parents didn't cover themselves in glory following my MMC and in their usual style, they were selfish and unsupportive (even though they've been through baby loss several times). This year will be the first time we won't be spending Christmas together and it's hitting me quite hard, but I will not be brushing their awful behaviour under the carpet anymore. It's been a horrid year tbh and I'll be glad to see it gone. I know it's just a change in dates, technically speaking, but there's always an element of freshness about the New Year.

Anyway, DH seemed more upset about losing the family member and his friend, he actually cried several times and talked about it. He has moved on now though. He seems to grieve the "tangible" loss, whereas with the baby, it just seems he wasn't attached to her. It quite upset me several times, but you can't force someone to love and grieve, can you? I don't think he is anywhere near understanding the depth of my feelings.

Phew. If we think about it, what we've been through is actually quite a lot to deal with on top of losing our babies, and we're still going and not giving up. It's pretty impressive, I think. Xxx

@MrsMGE I'm really sorry to read this. That is really difficult, because a support network in the form of family is just different than a support network in the form of friends. But then, there are friends that are family, as cheesy as that may sound. Losing close friends and family... it's really tough! I'm sending you a big hug across mumsnet to where you are!! Family is so challenging, I know what you mean by 'long stories'...
I cannot believe your family was selfish and unsupportive, I don't mean to pry and of course you don't need to explain but why weren't they there for you?

As for a lot having happened this year, you're so right, and here we still are!! I read once, you do not know what lies ahead but you also do not know how brave you are. In hindsight that seems to true! We are brave, and we keep going, despite the uncertainty, we continue to persist! I'm really proud of all the women on this thread and so many of these chats, fighting.

Thank you for your good luck wishes on the house - I'm really hopeful this might come through. We had such a great vibe from the owner who showed us around, I could just see our life there, and that's what I always felt I had to see to say, yep, I am going to buy this house. It's going to need some work, but I really like doing that sort of stuff, and interiors too, so it'll be a really welcome task!

Have a good start to a new week everyone x

Hope everyone had a good weekend

I had a quite a productive one which included yoga and a walk. Might try to go for a walk with DH every Sunday.

I am also going to try not to eat so much sugar from tomorrow. That means cutting out chocolate bars and my now almost daily hot chocolate from Starbucks (which is also expensive!) I might have to allow myself an occasional treat whether that’s to say I can eat what I want on a weekend or a little bit of chocolate after dinner, I just eat several “treats” a day currently and it’s too much. Maybe by telling you all I am now accountable!

@LASandOtto I'm really into interior design too, there's nothing quite as exciting as buying a new house in need of a bit of work and then using your creative side to transform it! Hard work pays off.

It's not a prying question, don't worry. My mum is depressed and has been for many years, but didn't do anything about it. Her perception of the world isn't quite right as a result, she's become more reclusive and avoids challenges. They live in a different country, so coming out to see me would be a logistical challenge (for her, not for a normal person). I am certain she did not deal with losing my siblings in the past and dwelled on it for years, and in this situation perhaps she chose to protect herself. A prime example of why bottling up is not a good thing long term, this is why I am doing things very, very differently. This has definitely contributed to her depression, alongside other things. Now she just can't see she has been selfish for years by choosing not yo seek help. But that's her life, and I finally have mine to live, differently. My father is a cold person by nature, he's always been selfish, lacking empathy and compassion and frankly, a borderline sociopath. I respect him and get on with him at an intellectual level, but not at a personal level. Him and mum couldn't be a bigger mismatch even if they tried. So it's a very toxic mix and tbh, probably for the best that we haven't been in touch for a few months as they have already made me feel worse and I, for the first time chose to protect myself and I decided I am better off alone.

Sorry that was long. It's a heavy topic.

I hope you have a great week too. Take care, lovely ❤️ xxx

@LASandOtto good luck with the house! We moved into our new home last year and it is definitely a rewarding experience to make somewhere your own. We had previously lived in my house which I had originally purchased with an ex, so this house is special as it is truly 'ours'. Keep us posted with how you get on, hope you get your offer accepted ASAP!

I'm about to turn 36 in a fortnight, and DH is the same age. It's been disconcerting being reminded of my 'geriatric' status at every medical appointment, though the plus side of being over 35 is that you do get seen more quickly from a fertility issues perspective. In answer to your question I inject myself daily with heparin when pregnant as well as taking aspirin. It hasn't prevented me from miscarrying, unfortunately, but I guess I've been ok physically which is ultimately more important.

Your journey in recent years sounds incredibly challenging and I'm glad your DH has been a strong support throughout the tragic loss of your dad as well as your miscarriages. My DH showed no excitement at all during our second pregnancy, I think he was protecting himself after the sadness of the first loss. This was another thing that I mentioned during our consulting session - I completely understand where he was coming from but I felt sad when he was barely acknowledging the possibility of a baby. We both know now that we need to try to be positive if we are fortunate enough to get pregnant again - though it's easier said than done when the voices in your head make you feel as if it's inevitable that it will go the same way.

@MrsMGE I'm sorry to hear that you don't have much in the way of family support and that your DHs parents aren't in the picture. Try not to let the Christmas situation upset you. It sounds as if they have said some very hurtful things and your day will be happier without them around. Hopefully you and DH can make the day special and create some of your own new family rituals? I am 100% with you in terms of looking forward to a new year and putting the heartache of this one behind me.

My own family live best part of 300 miles away and to be honest they've been no support at all during the miscarriages - my dad has never as much as acknowledged them or expressed any sympathy, whilst my mum is quick to change the subject if I try to talk about it, and when she has commented it is always with one of the token phrases you should never use (at least it happened early on, at least you managed to get pregnant....). I guess the insensitivity is because they don't understand, they were over ten years younger than I am now when they started their family and I don't believe they had any struggles.

I think the loss of a pregnancy will always feel more tangible to the one who was carrying it as even if you had only known about the pregnancy for a matter of weeks you would no doubt have felt the baby's presence through all of the hormonal and physical changes going on, whilst DH / partners are a little removed, especially at the earlier stages. Weirdly the most I have ever seen DH cry was when his housemate's dog died, and the only time I can recall seeing my dad cry was over the death of a pet. I'm no psychologist but can't help but wonder if maybe it's because the grief from losing a (human) loved one is sometimes just too big and it's a defensive response to try to shut it down rather than let it overwhelm you?

You are both right that this group is full of brave, impressive women, and we should all be proud of the strength we display by persevering through some of the toughest situations that life can throw at anyone. I hope you all have had a good weekend and that this week is a positive one.

@ReeRi I need to try to follow your lead with the healthier eating. I enjoy a nice walk though I'm quick to make excuses to avoid it. Thinking of signing up for National Trust membership in the new year as motivation for us to get out and about a bit more, though we're lucky there are plenty of nice free of charge places to go walk locally. I need to develop some willpower when treats are around - every other day someone shares cake, biscuits or sweets in my office (or often all three) and I never say no. I think giving up sugar completely is unrealistic for me, but cutting back should be doable. Let us know how you get on - as you say you've told us now, though definitely don't beat yourself up when you have the kind of day where a chocolate bar is the only way to get to 5pm....

@Avocuddles Thanks for your kind words. I'm sorry to hear you didn't have much support from the family either. You're right about everything - there is a lack of understanding, partially because these things were not discussed openly before, and partially because we tend to have kids a decade later than the previous generation. In my case, even having been through the same experience didn't help my parents with knowing what to do. Maybe it's because of the way they are, maybe it's because they never dealt with it as they should (in my mum's case). I sometimes think they are actually getting old as I generally find I have less in common with them now when they're in their 60s than when they were in their 50s. I relate more to how they were 10-20 years ago than now. Does this make sense?

You're also right re men and grief post baby loss. I guess it's difficult for us to imagine how they are feeling because we cannot just detach ourselves from the physical side of things. I try not to hold it against my DH, but it does contribute to us not really being able to fully understand each other, it's just impossible. I find the only people who understand are ladies like us, similar age group and similar experience, we have a lot in common which makes it a lot easier to talk openly. Xxx

@MrsMGE you're right, whilst DH is my rock and I couldn't have got through this without him, I also couldn't have made it through without being able to lean on those who have a first hand empathy for what I have experienced. I have two friends who have both have children now but who both lost their first pregnancy and they were very helpful and supportive, in particular after the first MC. I also discovered (thanks to sharing a link to an article about miscarriage and the 'stigma' around it) three acquaintances who have experienced multiple losses, two of whom now have children and one of whom is still battling on after two MCs and a stillbirth. It is tragic that so many wonderful women have to go through this awful, lonely experience, and I feel anything at all that can be done to raise awareness and reduce that sense of stigma is very admirable.

My parents are relatively young (my mum is just about to turn 60) but definitely of a different generation. I clearly recall my mum turning forty - I was 16 and to me she felt really old, yet in four years time it'll be my turn, and there are plenty of amazing women on here having babies well into their forties. My MIL had multiple miscarriages and has talked about that in a matter of fact way (apparently a gypsy told her she couldn't have girls?!) but again hasn't really offered anything in the way of emotional support. I guess it's that old fashioned British 'stiff upper lip' in action.

I am very glad you are all here to talk to!!!

Hi ladies, sorry I haven’t posted recently, been so busy and I struggle to keep up with you all I have been reading though and following your journeys.

I got my first AF since my miscarriage, it’s awful! Is it normal to be so heavy? I don’t usually get really heavy periods, or spotting, but this started off with spotting for 3-4 days and now heavy bleeding. I passed a clot this morning and am wondering if it could have been the pregnancy sac? I didn’t pass any reasonable size clots during my miscarriage 4 weeks ago, so could it really have stayed behind this long? I got a negative test after the miscarriage so I’m a bit confused, and worried, and generally feeling a bit rubbish about everything

Oh @Avocuddles I get what you're saying. My parents have the mentality of "just getting on with things", particularly my father. He's an orphan and I think it affected him a lot as he has to work hard for everything he's achieved. He doesn't acknowledge pain, upset, mental health issues, nothing. Both him and my mum are high achievers and very demanding, but overly supportive. They just seem to think if we don't talk about issues, they do not exist. We all know this isn't true and the bubble will burst, eventually. What they also don't realise is that they're desperately unhappy and actually not nice to be around as a result, and that's just not OK and not sustainable. I'm talking openly about baby loss, I now lead a local support group (I volunteered to do this) and raise funds for various charities. I want people to know this isn't an awkward topic, it's something we should be allowed to talk about openly if we wish so, and people ought to listen instead of selfishly running away from an uncomfortable truth. We shouldn't feel weighed down by this for years just because people don't know what to say, so it's better to stay quiet. I'm a firm believer it's better to educate so that everyone feels more comfortable.

On this note, my work colleague this morning asked me in front of everyone why I didn't go for drinks on Friday night. My response: "I don't drink these days, not now." His face was a picture. BTW, I had a BFN this morning, so I'm not actually pg, but in any event, I decided not to drink because I'm focusing on getting stronger mentally and healthy living does help with that. That is none of his business, but hopefully he now understands he shouldn't be asking this kind of questions to a woman following the loss of her baby. Men just don't put 2+2 together, do they. Anyway, half of my office probably suspects I'm pg again, which is pretty hilarious - I'll be watching their faces in the next few months with amusement 😂 xxx

Hello again,

Hope you don't all mind me joining again so soon. MMC confirmed about 45 minutes ago, still stuck in the car unable to face driving.

Sorry to see familiar names are still here!

@TwinkleStars15 my first AF this time around was far heavier and clottier than usual. I've tried to take it as a positive sign that my body is clearing itself out - my periods are normally short (3 days) and light but this one stopped and started for a full week - I thought on two occasions that it had ended only to be confronted with heavy bleeding the next day. If you've had a negative that would imply that the sac / tissues had passed, but with both miscarriages I passed a big clot of something a good three weeks after the initial miscarriage - I feel grateful that they both happened naturally and weren't too physically painful but I do wish it didn't all drag on so long! I hope this is it for you and that things return to normal soon. I hope you've been busy with some good things, and that you're looking after yourself.

@MrsMGE good on you for being honest and direct with your colleagues. I always find the drinking / not drinking thing stressful. I went out for a few drinks with work a couple of weeks ago and did indulge in a few as we're not currently 'trying', but I know from previous occasions that I felt acutely conscious that colleagues would be leaping to conclusions, even when the reality was that I was just on the 2WW. That's one of the reasons I've been open with most colleagues this time round - I'm sure it won't eliminate the assumptions entirely, but I don't want to feel obliged to make up rubbish excuses for something that is a personal choice. Once my birthday and our holiday are out of the way (three weeks to go!) then I intend to return to a teetotal existence before we start to actively try again. It might be challenging with Christmas coming up but I will make sure I adopt your approach!!!

Oh @TwittleBee I'm so sorry to hear that. I hope you are ok and have support with you. As and when you want to talk we are hear for you xxx

Here for you (autocorrect is the bane of my life...)

I’m so sorry @TwittleBee

Sorry to hear that @TwittleBee

@TwittleBee so so sorry to read your post, sending love and hugs

@TwittleBee I'm also very sorry. Here for you for chats and venting and anything else you need! Let us know what we can do! X

Thanks everyone for the warm welcome back in, I really appreciate.

Life is fucking shit ey?! And life is apparently fucking hard to make and keep alive too!

My colleagues are amazing thankfully, back in the office now and my lovely team are so supportive and all, thankfully, just know what to say to me - no awkward silences or awkward words but instead directness, lovely words and lots of hugs.

How has everyone been on here? I suppose I should really read back through!

@twittlebee so sorry to hear your news. Glad you’re being looked after at work.

Sorry to hear those with unsupportive family/friends/colleagues. This is hard enough without dealing with other people being rubbish.

Well, saw my friend today who’s first child is 5 days younger than mine. And she’s pregnant, due a week after I would have been. She was great and very sensitive but I know I’m going to find her pregnancy difficult.

The GP has also agreed to test my iron/thyroid levels and a few other things as I haven’t been feeling great. Not necessarily miscarriage related but I feel having some basic blood work done might be helpful.

I’m definitely joining the slightly better eating/more exercise plan... I’ve snacked a lot less the last couple of weeks, and started gentle exercise again. I’m already quite active but need to do more.

@Mumlili8 that room looks lovely, hope you’re having a lovely time.

xx

Sorry ladies my morning was hectic at work!!

@MrsMGE your family sound very difficult and complicated. I know what it's like having a depressed mother who never sought help, and never will. It's very difficult seeing your parents in this manner when you get older. The support you need isn't there or sketchy at best, and you're doing well to protect yourself emotionally. Depression is a terrible disease but individuals must address it, you can only ever help someone to help themselves. Toxic relationships in families can ruin you and with all you've been through, you're doing the right thing to step away from it for now, deal with one thing at a time. I've had lots of counselling over my family issues that are very similar to yours over the years and they helped me gain perspective. I couldn't have coped without, I don't think!

@Avocuddles that 'head in the sand' approach from parents seems to be widespread. It's like you say, they don't understand because they cannot relate, they probably just to not have to familiarise themselves with the topic, and conveniently it's always brushed under the carpet because we are all made to feel like this subject is taboo and not relevant, yet I come on here and I think, how is this not spoken about more openly. We must be the ones who instigate a change. I'm thinking of starting a website where both men and women can exchange their experiences with miscarriage and infertility.

Men don't have the same outlet to share their feelings with / to. I think many men internalise their emotions and often adopt avoidance strategies. Men probably feel they get mixed messages about how they're expected to handle grief, so then probably struggle to express it at all. In many ways I'm glad I'm a women and can come on here, can speak to my friends (in minute detail) and just share how I feel.

@TwinkleStars15 my first AF after my first MC required ultra sanitary towels, I was a bit taken aback but after that it settled back down into normality. I hope you're ok?

Sending you all hugs and xxx