TTC after pregnancy loss 32 - the penguin huddle

[ReeReeR]

New thread 🐧🐧🐧

I have accidentally created a thread 33 as well but will delete that!

@VenusStarr yes DH has booked a four star hotel and museum for the 27th to 29th. God I'm so lucky to be married to my best friend xx

@Mumlili8 your break with DH sounds lovely. I hope you enjoy yourselves and each other's company.

@CharlieWeasley welcome to the club no one wants to be in! Sorry to hear about your miscarriages. Most of us here are your age or older and we all understand the emotional challenges of being around pregnant people, babies and children. It's awful, but please try not to think of this as wasted time, just a temporary delay before the right time which I'm sure will come for you. Did you have any medical support in your successful pregnancy after 2mc's? After two losses and no children I'm scared that another one is inevitable so interested in finding out about anything I might not have tried or considered.....

Avocuddles no I didn't. I moved house inbetween my first 2 MCs so they were dealt with by different hospitals, but I don't think that made a difference tbh. They didn't really want to know as 2 is just 'bad luck'. It was actually a really straightforward pregnancy but my mental health wasn't great.
EPU told me yesterday that I dont meet the criteria for referral to the recurrent miscarriage clinic because I need 3 in a row, but she suggested that I try and get my GP to refer me anyway because she thinks I should have the support. I feel like I should try but not sure I can face a battle about it.

@VenusStarr great to hear you had a good appointment with the RMC. Sounds like they were very friendly and listened to your concerns and thoughts. I hope there might be answers from the results but of course as we keep getting told, there may no answers. I have my fingers crossed for you.

I was going to ask you and @Avocuddles (sorry if this is very insensitive of me) how you got to get tests after two miscarriages, did you get a referral because of something else or prior?

I've made an appointment at a private clinic in London called the ARGC which I read lots of positives about, the blood tests alone however are £££. As if by fate, we were looking to buy a house this year and had just sold a flat my DH has owned since he was a student, and long story short but we didn't find a house we liked, so we've now got the money from the sale in the bank account which is lucky, as otherwise we'd be scraping together savings for these private investigations and subsequent possible further testaments / tests.

Anyway, I'm really glad @VenusStarr @Avocuddles that there is something happening for you both! It's always more reassuring to have some sort of a plan / something to look forward to.

@CharlieWeasley I'm really sorry for your losses, I hope you will find this thread supportive, everyone here is very lovely and there's some very brave women on here who've been incredible strong!

@MrsMGE I had spotting with both my pregnancies which is why I read the PRISM research outcomes with great interest. The first time I had it I do think it was due to the fact that the MC was impending (spotting started week 8, scan showed embryo measured 6 only with a very faint HB), but now on the second we had good scans at week 7 and to my utter surprise also at week 9, but the spotting was stressing me out no end. I wish someone had offered progesterone, even if it hadn't made a difference, from a psychological reassurance perspective it would've helped me I think. I just felt nothing was being done, the spotting went on and on and it was really affecting my mental state. I find early reassurance scans are reassuring for the 10 minutes that you're in the stirrups, and then for me personally, the reassurance ended as soon as I left the hospital and my symptoms continued.

@Mumlili8 you're so brave. I don't think I can even fathom what you've been through. Just wanted to say I really think it's admirable you continue on the journey and you're here with all of us also giving us support!

Ladies, have a lovely day, whatever you do and wherever you are. I know this area of our lives is currently causing us a lot of anguish but I know we've all got some good to hold on to too! X

@LASandOtto I was surprised to be referred but I'm under a fertility consultant (2 years ttc next month). I think that if you're older and it's taken over a year to conceive and had 2 losses you are eligible. That said, my GP nor epu were willing to refer me. The doctor yesterday did say that the odds are still in our favour for our next pregnancy (although that's difficult to hear when you've already had 2). He did also talk about testing if we are unfortunate to have another, so testing the embryo.
I'm sorry you're having to pay privately. I need to not put my hopes into them finding a reason as it might not happen.
I definitely feel a bit better having some dates to look forward to, first the operation, then follow up in the new year.

Forgot to say @Avocuddles smep worked for us this time round, we've agreed to try that again, probably after our follow up consultation. First cycle will be casual (as dh says!) then I'll go back to tracking.

@Mumlili8 that sounds like a lovely break with your best friend 😊

@LASandOtto I get it, I'd definitely ask for it next time if I were you.

Question to temp experts... I had what looks like a second temp dip today at 9DPO. The first one seems to have happened 5DPO. Both on the coverline at circa 36.3C, whereas my other temps are around 36.6C, sometimes near 36.7C. I did actually take one leftover pg test yesterday and it was negative. It's my first month temping, is it likely it's dropping before AF now? Can a second dip mean something I should be thinking about, anything to cause concern or is this quite normal? Xxx

@LASandOtto I've had the tests for two reasons - the first is my medical history because I had a major blood clot ten years ago, and the second is because we'd been referred to the fertility clinic before I first fell pregnant, much the same as @VenusStarr.
I'd had the majority of fertility screenings (some of which are the same as the miscarriage ones such as thyroid), and I'm fortunate enough that the fertility clinic were happy to continue their investigations even after my pregnancies due to my irregular cycles. I would still push for a RMC referral after a third loss but don't imagine they can offer that much more other than chromosomal testing. I've been on clotting medication for both pregnancies but unfortunately that hasn't helped me stay pregnant (though no doubt helped me personally as my risk of personal complications is very high).

I had spotting in both my pregnancies but in both instances it was only a few days before I miscarried so I imagine the pregnancy was already over by then. Nonetheless I'll definitely ask my GP / consultant (I have consultant led care due to the clot) about it if I fall pregnant again.

@CharlieWeasley i completely understand your frustrations. Take comfort in the fact that if you do have any specific medical issues they didn't prevent you from having a full term pregnancy, but definitely push for the investigations.

@VenusStarr we pretty much followed SMEP with my previous pregnancy. Like you I think we'll go for a 'casual' approach in December, and then go for tracking etc in the new year if that first cycle hasn't worked out.

@MrsMGE I didn't really get on with temping, however I was trying it the cycle I fell pregnant for the second time and looking back at my chart I did have a dip the day before my BFP at 9/10 DPO. So fingers crossed!

Do you want to post your chart @MrsMGE? I implanted on 8dpo last pregnancy but nothing notable on my chart that day. I think temping can also indicate progesterone issues - I think there's something on it in the taking control of your fertility book (I have a whole fertility and miscarriage library!)

@Avocuddles quite looking forward to the relaxed approach and then starting fresh in the new year

@CharlieWeasley welcome and I'm sorry you find yourself here, it's a lovely supportive group. I understand about not wanting to have a battle. I've found that most professionals have been really kind and understanding.

@Venusstarr @Avocuddles Thanks. Here it is. Please ignore at least 3/4 of the follicular phase temps as I was stupidly taking them at a wrong time, after I got out of bed because I was so forgetful at the beginning. I have then got to grips with BBT tracking not long before I happened, actually. Pretty sure the follicular phase temps were quite a bit lower in reality. Xxx

Thank you @Avocuddles @VenusStarr for your information and that of course makes complete sense, given previous histories.

I'm 33 and my OH is 41. I'll be turning 34 next year Feb so not long off.

I've also never used the temping method, the OPKs can be stressful, I'm really over peeing on my hand every other day when it's that time of the month to test! 

From what I gather from all the literature online and in the various books (I'll be reading Lesley Reagan's book next but not exactly a book to take on my daily tube commute), there's really still quite limited research into miscarriages in general. Some studies but looks like it's mostly Tommy's etc who are involved with certain leading experts in that field.

Our appointment is 22/11/19 so we can either see if we ovulate before that (flashing smiley day 2 today) or just relax now until Xmas and then we can see what the tests say.

I don't think I could cope with another round of upset right now after this year has just been difficult on so many fronts, my dad passing away and then these miscarriages, and other things.

@MrsMGE sorry I cannot assist on the temping front as I've never tried it. But I hope perhaps there's a BFP around the corner? Keeping my fingers and toes crossed and bum cheeks clenched together for extra luck!

*not long before O happened (not I)

@MrsMGE how long is your luteal phase usually? 9dpo would be early to drop for af if its 14 days but maybe not if its 10 days. I'm not an expert but I do think progesterone would be something to look into for you as your temps are not much higher after ovulation (although you are definitely ovulating) and you dtd around the right timd. Fingers crossed for you.
Have you spoken to the GP about them prescribing progesterone for you next time?

@Venusstarr I have the same thought and I agree, I will be asking for progesterone when I get a BFP. This is also because I had spotting before my MMC (this is where my comments about PRISM came from).

LP length is an interesting question. I suspected it was on a short side initially after the MMC, however I wasn't temping or using OPKs. Last cycle I used OPKs and I happened on CD25 with a 12 day LP. This cycle, I happened on CD18 and I have absolutely no inclination AF is on the way. My cycles before the MC were hardly ever below 30 days, usually 32-34 days. I can't work this out myself tbh! Perhaps too early to see where this is going yet. Xxx

@Venusstarr Silly phone, sorry - all the "Is" are meant to be "OS" for ovulation 🤦🏼‍♀️

@MrsMGE this is my chart from the month of my most recent pregnancy. I got my BFP on 10th august. I'm not planning on temping over the next month or so though will use cheap opks to try to get a feel for where I am in my cycle. I think my LP is about 12 days but as I've ovulated for certain 3 times over 18 months that's not necessarily accurate! I'm optimistic now though that my cycle might be a bit more regular, fingers crossed....

As @VenusStarr says I think the right thing for me right now is to step back for a little bit. I think I'll be stronger mentally if I focus on conceiving next year rather the pressuring myself to get another BFP before this one is through. If I do get one in December that would be great, but I think new year new start is where my head is at right now.

@Avocuddles I honestly conclude that all charts look different and there really isn't much obvious info to get out of them apart from O/lack of O, and possibly some issues with hormone levels that may need a mention in to a GP. I googled various charts and seen different on MN and there aren't two remotely similar, BFP or no BFP 😂 Not worth thinking about this for any longer! Xxx

Hi all, thanks for the messages of support.

Surgery went absolutely fine this morning. I've had no pain other than very very mild cramps. Less than a period pain and not even enough to bother having any pain meds since coming home. Having a bit of bleeding but again it's pretty light and no heavier than a normal period (if that)

All in all feeling fine both physically and mentally. They've signed me off work sick for 2 weeks which I actually don't feel I need so unsure what to do about that. I'm going to take tomorrow and the weekend off then decide on Monday if I'm going to go back then.

@CharlieWeasley honestly if you've not had the surgery previously it's nothing at all to worry about. Didn't know a thing about it and no pain at all when I woke up. Wishing you good luck xxx

@LA89 glad you're doing ok. Re going back to work, after my first miscarriage I just took one day of holiday plus the weekend. Physically I felt more than up to my desk based job, however mentally I wasn't great and had a few office loo meltdowns. With the second loss I took a full week of work, I felt like a bit of fraud as I spent most of the week visiting friends and watching Netflix but it was definitely a good decision in retrospect as by the time I returned to work my head had cleared and I felt more in control of my emotions. Only you can know when you're ready, but don't force yourself to work if you're not.....

@LA89 so glad it went well! Sounds like my experience as well. Rest and look after yourself. How is your other half coping?

I took off exactly the same time as @Avocuddles. Had a long weekend the first time (just took one day off for the procedure, then had the weekend and went back Monday). The second time I had a week off, signed off by the GP for longer but went back on Monday. Sometimes the distraction of work helps and I felt fine to return.

I told work I had a virus and it said 'personal circumstances' on my fit note, so that was good as well. I haven't even handed it in as no one asked me for it... even better!

See how you feel and then you can always decide! Hope you continue to recover well!

I'm off for my first social outing since MC 2 last week, meeting two friends, one who knew about my MC and told me she was 6 weeks pregnant herself now.

Hope everyone else is ok!

@LASandOtto hope you enjoy catching up with your friends.

I told all of my friendship group about my miscarriages after the second one. I find it so much easier now that they all know - they all have babies / toddlers and I know they were all waiting for it to be our 'turn', their kindness and support was invaluable in the early days and I would want them to know I would provide the same to them if ever they needed it. I hope the fact that your friend is in the early stages of pregnancy isn't too upsetting for you - hopefully by your next meet yo you'll be in the same position.....

Meet yo = meet up!

@Avocuddles thank you, yes it was a nice evening!

My friend had said she's been apprehensive to tell me about her pregnancy because of what I was going through, and I told her I was glad she did, her happiness isn't my sadness, my sadness is for my situation alone.

Was good to get out and forget about everything! Had my first glass of wine in months as well, and was really struggling to finish it in the 2.5 hours we were there! Defo not a problem I ever had before

How are you doing?

Happy Friday to everyone!

Hi all hope everyone is ok and hello to the newcomers

I have just skim read through the last few pages as this thread moves fast! I’m away visiting clients for work and will catch up on the train home.

Feeling a bit bad this morning as I had a glass of Prosecco last night and now I’m thinking I shouldn’t have as I’m in the 2WW. I wouldn’t usually but I really wasn’t feeling v sociable last night and thought a drink might loosen me up plus thought I’m probably not pregnant anyway! It was a glass and there was even a tiny bit leftover...

@LASandOtto How did you find going to the buddhist meditation place? I’ve been thinking about going for a couple of years and haven’t done it but I do listen to a certain monk on a podcast. I find yoga keeps me relaxed too and just exercise generally!

Hey @ReeRi!

You really must not feel guilty about a glass of Prosecco! I'm sure you do know this already but soooooo many women have (a lot more than you did) alcohol before a positive pregnancy test appears. I really wouldn't worry, it won't have any affect!

I can tell you that joining the mediation centre was the best thing I did last year. It is a Buddhist centre and they do also teach Buddhism. It's the most calming place I've ever been to, it is such a free space, there's no expectations, no commitments. I found it daunting going by myself the first time, but met a lot of people during tea breaks, as they do a introductory meditation session on Tuesdays from 7-9.30pm. Sounds long but times flies by!! At my centre they teach Metta Bhavana (developing loving kindness) and Mindfulness of Breathing (a way to handle stress and emotions). They alternate every week and once you're more advanced, you can join the regular meditation sessions.
I have to say it taught me a lot, dealing with anxiety, and even the loving kindness - I see myself as someone who has empathy already but I discovered I had none for myself. I was always tough on myself, blamed myself when things wouldn't go certain ways, in short, I always looked for fault in myself. Metta Bhavana practice helped me be more kind to myself. I'm still learning though!!!

Let me know if you want any further info!!

@ReeRi don't feel bad about that at all. Both my GP and consultant said not to worry about the odd glass during the 2WW. The first time I fell pregnant I unknowingly had a very big night out during the 2WW (unknowingly as I thought I was incapable of conceiving naturally) and although that pregnancy didn't work out everyone I have spoken to on a professional level told me that wouldn't have contributed at all. Be sensible, but don't feel guilty for having one or two - TTC can be a long and painful journey so be kind to yourself. How many DPO are you now?

@LASandOtto your mediation centre sounds great! I'll certainly take a look online to find out more, and will also look into the podcasts / YouTube videos.
I have NEVER had an issue finishing a glass of wine. We shared a bottle the evening after my miscarriage and it tasted amazing after a couple of months of abstinence. I am drinking far less now than I used to, but do have a few things ahead where I'll definitely be having a couple (weekend away with school friends next week then the all inclusive holiday coming up), as I said previously I've decided I'll enjoy this month and not beat myself up about anything I eat or drink, then go back to health living (or as healthy as I ever get) for the next cycle.....