TTC after pregnancy loss 32 - the penguin huddle

[ReeReeR]

New thread 🐧🐧🐧

I have accidentally created a thread 33 as well but will delete that!

I agree it is hard @ceebee21. I actually don't think it's possible to switch off completely after a loss. I don't think we should set ourselves up for fail and think, right, from tomorrow I'm not thinking about TTC, that's just unrealistic. The point is about not obsessing about it and not making your entire life to revolve around this one issue, and that's very different to not thinking about it. A forum like this one, in my view, is extremely helpful when we do think about this, as it's a safe space to express how we feel, what we know, what we're up to, what our experiences are. But I think we ought to be careful for it not to feed into ttc obsession. It's meant to be a source of support in my view. The primary focus needs to be on what's good for us, here and now, and as part of self-care we need to stop the obsession. I put my hands up, I was definitely obsessed last month, this month after coming crashing down following the news my best friend is pg, I went to great lengths to ensure I'm not obsessed. I am so proud of myself, because you know what, I managed to keep a safe distance from this issue for the sake of my own health. I feel so much better than this time last cycle, it's incomparable. I don't know if I manage this long-term, but I will certainly try. Xxx

@LASandOtto Interesting question, mostly because I'm a woman with a plan, at least for the next 5 years. Or so I used to be.

Now I am actually learning to let go. I'll just look after myself, continue with holistic therapies, do things for me that I like. My MH nurse said "you put way too much pressure on yourself, you're not kind on yourself". And she's right. I have never been kind on myself, actually. So for once, I will do my best to just enjoy things as much as I can, look after myself first, before everyone else, and see what happens. In practical terms, I think I will temp my cycles because I don't find this to be stressful and it is helpful with confirming O, which is again quite reassuring. If I get pg again, I'll ask for progesterone because it can't do harm and I had spotting before my MMC that was dismissed by a midwife. I'm not getting fobbed off again, I'll go private if necessary. I won't be stressing out with early scans if not needed. I may have one at 7 wks to confirm location (ie not ectopic) and heartbeat. Then a 12w scan and a NIFTY test. So yes, there is a plan in place for the next pg I guess, only based on what I've learned following my MMC and tailored to protect myself and my health as best as possible.

Apart from that, I eat healthy, actually delighted cause I've lost some weight. I walk a lot now. Making a very conscious effort to calm myself down, not to ramp up the pressure of constantly checking things and setting myself goals or deadlines, if that makes sense. Xxx

@MrsMGE you have spoken a lot of words of wisdom this morning! I completely agree with not letting TTC take over your life. My first BFP came as a complete surprise in the month that DH and I had stopped actively 'trying' as I was awaiting an initial fertility appointment. For the first time since I'd stopped taking the mini pill there was no pressure at all, and that's when it happened. I had been eating (and drinking) whatever I wanted, the only thing I was doing at all was taking folic acid. That pregnancy didn't work out but it was still a blessing after a year without a hint of a BFP (or even a positive opk....).

My first period after MC2 has turned out to be a pain.... I thought it had stopped on Sunday but then had a bit more bleeding yesterday, thought that had stopped and now another 24 hrs later there's more blood when I wipe! I can't have my HyCoSy tomorrow if I'm bleeding so hope it stops properly ASAP!!!!

@MrsMGE absolutely. When you don't know how long ahead the road to a family may be, I think it's best to just focus on your own well-being. Unattainable things can often become obsessions. Striking a healthy balance is important, also for partners and family. Everyone needs to do what's right for them but I'm very much on your viewpoint.

A lovely colleague of mine who knew what was going on with me and MC2 has just recommended a great acupuncture place to me through her friend who is Chinese. My colleague has done a lot of holistic medical approaches and was told she'd never have kids due to severe endometriosis, she now had two kids. I'm not saying that was because of acupuncture, but maybe it was.

Who knows, doing the things that keep us feeling good and balanced is what we should focus on!

Your practical plan sounds really great and I'm with you also on the progesterone, I read the PRISM trial outcomes yesterday and after 2 MCs I don't see how it could do any harm.

My EPU were always nice and caring but I associate that place with bad news, stress and anxiety now. I'd never want an early scan again as I've had so many and seeing HBs (good ones) didn't change my outcome to a good one sadly - I know that's not the norm but that's my personal story.

Let us know how tomorrow goes? X

@LASandOtto Yes, I take your early scans/HB point, absolutely. I've actually thought initially not to have any early scans in the next pg at all, but I do want to protect myself in case it was an ectopic, and frankly, this has made me decide that I'd have one 7 week scan. Scans are very triggering for me too as I needed multiple to confirm my first pregnancy was not viable & heard the bad news so many times that I absolutely find them stressful by definition. I totally understand you'd not want a single one before 12w.

Also completely agree re PRISM, this is exactly where the progesterone idea came from.

I think it is always good for us to do things that are positive and help us stress less and have a balanced approach. This doesn't only apply post baby loss, but I think it's particularly important now and I am really trying to prioritise this because this isn't my finest emotional state and I would like to feel better. I actually really would.

@Avocuddles how long was your AF? Do you normally spot at all? It might just be a one-off spotting? Any chance you can do some exercise today to try and get it out of the system before tomorrow (if you think this might be a good idea)? Xxx

@Avocuddles how was the HyCoSy? Hope all ok on your end? Just wanted to check in! X

Hi ladies! So the bleeding stopped yesterday (thanks @MrsMGE for the exercise tip - a YouTube exercise video in the living room did the trick!) and I had my HyCoSy procedure this afternoon. After reading some horror stories on Mumsnet I was terrified but it actually wasn't that bad - certainly uncomfortable and unpleasant, but not the level of agony I'd been expecting. Tubes and womb lining looked good and he could see some decent follicles so although I don't think I ovulated last cycle, things look promising going forward. I'll get a proper follow up appointment through in the next couple of weeks to go through all my various scan and blood test results but todays seemed promising.
Just had a long chat with DH and we've decided to give ourselves another few weeks to relax until after our holiday, and then give the SMEP approach a go next cycle. Our next few weeks are way too busy to get down to much baby making so December onwards is earmarked to 'get serious'! I feel a bit bad about not actively trying, but after talking it through feel it's probably the right choice given all the family social things we have going on as well as giving me a few more weeks to focus on my mental health.

Re Progesterone, is this something that GPs can prescribe or does it need to come from the hospital? I know the research around this isn't conclusive, but given the stage and nature of both of my MCs I would definitely like to give it a try.

I hope you are all having a good week and feeling as ok as you can given the circumstances in which we all find ourselves x

Hi all, can I jump on board please?

I got my BFP back in August. Went for my 12 week scan on Monday and was told I've had a MMC and baby died at around 7 and a half weeks. I'm gutted obviously but more than anything I just want to get on with trying again. I'm having a D&C tomorrow and wondering how long after that it's safe to try again. Anyone with any experience they can share would be much appreciated xxx

@Avocuddles Glad it helped & glad it went well! All good news. Re progesterone it would be a prescription from your GP. Tommy's website actually recommends to take PRISM notes with you if you think you meet the criteria. They shouldn't refuse it, if they do, personally I'm going to go private and get it anyway.

Your approach sounds great BTW ❤️ I'm also taking a huge chill pill every day, at least trying to. Work in progress 😉 xxx

@LA89 I'm so sorry to hear about your loss I had a MMC/ D&C 15 days ago so know exactly what you are going through. I was told the only reason they recommend waiting for one full cycle is that it's easier to date the pregnancy and I also have heard from other ladies that they have experienced a chemical miscarriage straight after a D&C as they lining hadn't been thick enough for bean to attach. Having said that they're are lots of positive stories of women falling pregnant straight after a mc. We are trying this month and I am currently ovulating so crossing everything I'll get a BFP in two weeks time. Just do what's right for you, I'm 43 so don't have time on my side and feel emotionally and physically ready but everyone is different. Sending love and support for tomorrow, I definitely felt a sense of relief (amongst the sadness) after my op xx

Thanks @Mystie. I'm feeling ok about tomorrow, just want it over with more than anything. I do think I'll probably wait for a period before trying again. As you say, I'd be worried physically it might be too soon and reduce the chance of success if I don't.

Emotionally I actually feel much better than I'd have thought I would. I was expecting bad news at the scan as we had an early scan at 8 weeks and whilst baby had a heartbeat I was only measuring at 6 weeks and I knew when I ovulated so I knew there was a very good chance things were going to go badly which I think helped prepare me. So whilst I was very sad to have it confirmed I wasn't shell shocked. More than anything I feel like I've been robbed of 3 months and now have to start all over again which is rubbish. I'm 30 so time not against me but it's awful when you thought you were on your way and then get sent back to square one.

Fingers crossed you get your BFP this cycle xxx

@LA89 I know how you feel, I definitely felt deflated and back to square one. Take comfort in the statistics that say the chances of you hanging a miscarriage after a miscarriage are slim (unless you have a specific issue). Use the time to do all the things you love and won't be able to do when you're pregnant! I went back to hot yoga today and it was such a lovely gift to myself. I'll keep you posted on any BFP news! X

@LA89 welcome but sorry you've found yourself here. I had a similar situation to you with my second miscarriage where an early scan was measuring behind and I knew in my heart that it wasn't going to work out in spite of seeing a heartbeat. My miscarriages both passed naturally so I can't comment on a D&C, but all I'd say re trying again is to listen to your body and don't rush yourself. I tried straight away after my first loss and conceived on the second cycle, however this time round I'm taking a couple of months out from trying to rest and look after myself. My first cycles post miscarriage have both been erratic with random bleeding going on for weeks, I'm guessing this won't be the case after surgery but you still may not find things feel 'normal' immediately. If you feel fit, healthy and ready to go for it straight away there's no medical reason not to, but ultimately you're going through something that is very difficult and both mentally and physically draining so don't put pressure on yourself if you don't want to actively try immediately. As @Mystie says maybe take advantage of the opportunity to do things you might not whilst pregnant - as soon as my bleeding had stopped I went away for a spa break with DH and hot tubs, saunas and Prosecco were just what I needed at that point in time. Good luck to you as and when you're trying again, and hope you're not on this board for long.

@Mystie great news that you seem to be ovulating!!! I really hope you get your BFP this month and your rainbow 9 months from now.

@MrsMGE I'll get those PRISM notes saved in my favourites!

Hi all, not sure why but I stopped getting notifications so missed a lot... will catch up properly later as have just skim read. Was supposed to be my 12 week scan yesterday so felt pretty low. But, we got two cats! We were planning on it soonish (our last cat died a year ago) but thought screw it, let’s do it now. Actually helping to have little cats running about. A nice distraction.
I’ve read the book recommended by @Avocuddles thank you! I’ve also read it starts with an egg... I think you would go crazy if you followed everything but it’s really helpful for making some changes. I’m having a think about extra supplements but might just go for the ubiquinol (think I’ve spelled that wrong) and am trying to lose weight.
Even after one miscarriage I struggle with people being blindly positive. The reality is I have no idea what will happen. Hopefully we’ll get lucky and have our rainbow baby, but we might not. I find trying to imagine life as we are as good enough the best way. But that might just be me.
Sending love to all, and I’ll read everyone’s updates properly later x

@la89 welcome, sorry you find yourself here. I miscarried two weeks ago at almost 11 weeks, baby had stopped growing at almost 9. On trying again, I felt like you just after. I just wanted to be pregnant again. After a couple of weeks I actually feel like a little break might be good for me, both physically & emotionally. Like @Mystietime isn’t on my side (I’m almost 40), but I guess my advice is just see how you feel in a couple of weeks. And allow yourself to change your mind and wait a month or two if you need. xxx

@Avocuddles I'm so pleased your HyCoSy went well! I sometimes think that reading experiences on Mumsnet exacerbate our fears, you read a couple of terrible experiences and I for one, then immediately start to worry myself senseless that it'll be the same for me. So what's the follow up appointment? I think your approach is great, have some enjoyable time off TTC and then start afresh in December.

@Mystie lovely to hear you're trying again and I have my fingers crossed for you. Keep us posted!

@LA89 I'm also sorry to hear of your loss. I've had two this year and had an ERPC for my first in February, and natural this time around. I can tell you the ERPC was very smooth for me, no pain and just limited bleeding after for about 1.5 weeks. We tried again after and got pregnant again in July which sadly ended in this MC I've just had now. Wishing you all the best for tomorrow! Xxx

@MrsMGE I read the same research on Tommy's as you did and will totally see the GP with this info, if I get pregnant again. Seems like there's no harm in trying it.

Got an appointment on the 22/11 at the ARGC clinic for tests. Nervous about it but looking forward at the same time.

Since my BFN test on Monday, I've been checking on OPKs to see what's happening on the ovulation front, and I got the flashing smiley this evening on the ClearBlue Advanced. Seems so soon!!!! Going to check again tomorrow morning and then maybe attempt TTC but not sure yet.

Sending all you ladies big hugs! X

@LASandOtto Inthink the next appointment is just to go through the various test results and decide if we're going to take any additional steps now. Clomid was previously mentioned as an option when my cycles were very irregular, but as I had my first period a comparatively short 37 days after my miscarriage and the doctor seemed optimistic that my next cycle won't be too long it might be that they send us away for a few more months of unassisted trying. I'm most interested to hear if any of the test results show anything which could be linked to my pregnancy losses, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

Flashing smilies are a good sign! Though not to dampen your hopes I must have had at least 15 days of flashing smilies before I gave up checking last month. This however isn't unusual for me as I had a lot of experiences like that before I conceived the first time - in spite of a lot of months of testing I've only ever seen a positive opk twice, both times after my first miscarriage.....
Fingers crossed that you see a solid smiley soon, even if it's just to provide reassurance that things are returning to normal if you decide against trying this month.

@tmc14 I agree wholly with what you say about thinking about the life you live now being good enough. We know that children or no children we live a good life - nice house, holidays, plenty of eating out etc. I just wish that much mentioned crystal ball could come into play - if I knew for certain that we would never have children of our own I'd probably take a career break tomorrow, travel, drink lots of wine, then jack in my job and move companies to get away from the bottleneck which limits progression at my current workplace. But for now we still have hope and Even after two miscarriages there's no reason (other than those negative voices in my head on a bad day) to think that our future doesn't involve a baby.

Much love to all of you. @Mumlili8 @ReeReeR @VenusStarr hope you're all ok.

@LASandOtto Completely agree. I also think if we all start getting progesterone when appropriate, the stats will improve following one (or more) MC even more than what the research suggests so far.

@Avocuddles I too had 15 days of flashing smileys last cycle before a steady smiley. I hated my life, hated sex, and didn't conceive! So stressful. I ditched OPKs this month, only used them few times and randomly it seems O was happening then. I feel SO much better without them!!! Personally, temps are a lot easier to live with on a daily basis for me, I bloody hate POAS now, give me a break! 😂 Xxx

Thanks for the tag @Avocuddles really pleased the hycosy went ahead and it went well 😊

Had my rmc appointment today. It went well, the doctor was really kind and listened to my theories, mainly sticky blood as that seems to make sense and he didn't disagree. Had the blood tests and back in 3 months for follow up bloods. He did a say it doesn't matter if I'm pregnant for the follow up. He's also keen to see the results of the hysteroscopy. We were reassured that my fibroids are not the cause.
Interestingly he said that they do not prescribe progesterone until you've had 4 mc, then it's routine but they needed more evidence to do that. I'm not convinced progesterone is my issue.
I also mentioned my thyroid as it was 2.3 when tested last year - I'm more worried from a fertility perspective - but he's redone it and said if it's over 2.8 I can ask to be medicated for it.
So once the operation is done we'll be back to ttc.

@Mumlili8 how are you feeling today?

Hope everyone is OK, haven't caught up properly today xx

@VenusStarr honestly I don't know lol. I expected ovulation today and we managed to get dtd in this morning but ovulation is late typical, I've had high on the monitor for days. But will not be able to dtd until 27th now because of DH's work so 😔 yeah.... And the anniversary of the loss of my oldest baby is 28th and I so wanted to be pregnant before then. It just marks an entire year of mc's too 6 in total.
Glad your appointment was good. How are you feeling? More confident?

@Venusstarr Re progesterone he might be right because this would be consistent with the PROMISE trial. The PRISM Trial that we've discussed above us different as it applies to women who had bleeding/spotting in early pregnancy and the recommendations in respect of progesterone prescribing are different for them.

@VenusStarr glad your appointment went well. Did they do any blood tests other than for clotting and thyroid? I'm definitely feeling as if I've already had all of the RMC tests already, but if there's anything I haven't it would be good to know 

@Mumlili8 all milestones are difficult but I imagine the anniversary of your first loss must feel particularly painful. Six within a year is so much to deal with, there's nothing I can say to make that any better but I hope and pray that the next twelve months bring you your rainbow. I know it's impossible to have a positive outlook at such a time, but please do try to look to the future with optimism. For me the milestone I'm dreading is my first due date in early January, especially as DHs best friend's partner is due the same week.
I hope this is your month - the 27th is only three days away but if you ovulate tomorrow or the day after you've probably timed it well today so fingers crossed those swimmers are patiently waiting for their moment!

@Mumlili8 💜 it's really difficult when dates come up. My due date is a week on Saturday (my next one is out wedding anniversary). Fingers crossed you ovulate today and your timing will have been good. Are you doing anything on 28th?
I feel a bit more hopeful, but we've still got so long to go. Feel like this year has just been full of sadness.

Thanks @MrsMGE we didn't get chance to talk to the research nurse as it was a busy clinic. She wants to see us at our review once I've had my surgery. I spotted in my first but not my second, so who knows.

@Avocuddles he wrote on my bloods form recurrent miscarriage, one was the thyroid tests the other was the blood clotting ones, there were a few though. I can't recall much else, I'm struggling to retain information at the moment. I suspect you're right in having had the same bloods taken.

Hi can I join? I had 2 MCs then went on to have DD who is now 18months. Yesterday confirmed MMC at nearly 10weeks. I'm having surgery tomorrow. I'm so angry at myself for getting my hopes up this time, and just really cross about the wasted time. I'm 36 so to have wasted 3 months + is rubbish. My NCT group is still really close and 4 of them are currently pregnant, and my lovely boss told me she is pregnant last week. I just need this to be done with so we can try again. I can't watch all these pregnant people around me.

@LA89 welcome and sorry you find yourself here...I had a MMC confirmed in September and had my ERPC on 1st October...It all went really smoothly and was so quick. I had slight cramping the evening after, then felt fine after. Bled lightly for about 10 days and then nothing. I ovulated earlier this week and we have not been using protection..what will be will be I guess.
I must say I can really relate to how you felt...I went for a 9 week scan and we didn't actually get a heartbeat, but they thought my dates were wrong..I sort of accepted there and then it wasn't positive, had another 2 scans before they confirmed.
By that point, I just wanted it to be over and start again. Good luck today, it really isn't bad at all - having never been in hospital I was quite anxious about everything, especially a general, but all was fine.

@CharlieWeasley welcome, sorry you find yourself here also.
Good lucky for today, hope all goes well

Xx