TTC after pregnancy loss 32 - the penguin huddle

[ReeReeR]

New thread 🐧🐧🐧

I have accidentally created a thread 33 as well but will delete that!

@ReeRi is it possible that the friend of yours who avoided you is going through something you may not know about? For example, is it possible she's pg herself, or infertile, or maybe she's going through some kind of personal issue not related to pregnancy, and not related to you at all? I don't know, just a thought, there is usually a reason for deploying the avoidance tactic.

Just to clarify, my previous post referred to the woman who laughed at you at the Sands stall, not to confuse the two.

Sounds like you could do with some TLC and me time at the moment, any chance you could make time for this? If you feel you need to have someone by your side then choose someone from the circle of trust who will not disappoint you with inappropriate reactions xxx

@MrsMGE I think I maybe didn’t explain well. The woman who laughed was a friend I met through a previous Sands meeting in February or March and who I have met up with a couple of times since. I had lunch with her on Friday and that was when we had the conversation when I said I’d had a mc and she laughed and then told me she’s pregnant.

The other friend is one I’ve known for years and happened to be at the station near the stand and I said hello and she acted like she couldn’t get away fast enough. There could be other things going on. I don’t think she’s trying to get pregnant but I don’t know for sure obviously. I just got the impression she preferred to keep things light.

I am not getting on well with DH. He has other things bothering him and we seem to be completely at odds. To the point that I don’t think we’ll TTC this month and I’m wondering whether we should split. It’s all a lot to deal with tbh. We’re both at a low point.

@ReeRi I'm sorry to hear this. It is hard to comment without knowing the details, but going through something tough is very challenging in every relationship. Speaking from experience! My DH lost one of his best friends to cancer few weeks ago, we lost one of our closest family members in August, some family members proved very unsupportive and we stopped speaking to them. Frankly, since June when the MC happened, it's been a shit fest, we both had stuff we've had to deal with, together or separately. DH is an introvert and a glass half full kind of person. I'm an extrovert and a realist, also a control freak who likes to plan for all eventualities to make sure we always land ok regardless. So there's the clash already there, and I still find DH does not support me the way I need, it's as if his grief was lesser and he struggles to understand why I'm still suffering. I feel he plays the whole thing down.

Anyway. The reason why I said this is because I know neither of us is currently in the right state of mind to be making any significant decisions. I often feel like ditching everything and everyone and just running away to start afresh. But this is not a solution to whatever is going on. You both need to work on things together, as best you can. It will take time and you'll get to a better place, and reassess what you want to do then. The world may be falling apart, but it doesn't mean your relationship has to follow, and in fact it may become a lot stronger after the tough times. Keep your head up and look after yourself now. Xxx

@ReeRi I'm sorry things are rough with your DH. You have both been through so much, it's would be surprising if there weren't challenges in a relationship after such a devastating experience. Have you been through marriage counselling / is that something you would consider? It can be painful but the opportunity to have frank conversation about how you both feel about the relationship and where you want it to be can be very beneficial. I had a short lived marriage in my early twenties that collapsed after a period where I had experienced very ill health and my husband at the time was coping with a bereavement, that relationship didn't work out (thankfully, as I really believe the DH beside me as I write is my soulmate), but the experience was useful in helping to move towards a place of clarity.

Regardless of whether you feel professional help would be useful for you, do try to make some time to reconnect as a couple, be it going for a long walk, trying a new restaurant or going for a spa break. It's so hard when you both have different things going on, but try to find an opportunity to spend some time just enjoying each other's company. You so deserve happiness, as does everyone here. Please look after yourself xx

@MrsMGE beautifully put!

Thanks @MrsMGE There are times when I have felt this made us stronger and then other times I feel we are breaking. It has been a difficult time. Sounds like it has for you too. He doesn’t deal with stress well. I tend to become needy when I’m feeling low and he tends to go into his “cave”. So there’s a lot of that. We don’t communicate very well. He has other children and I have just lost my only child and that is difficult too. Maybe we are both being stubborn also. I just feel very low and alone at the moment tbh so forgive me if I have another quiet week on here xx

Thanks @Avocuddles. I can see from your posts we're very much on the same page!

@ReeRi I think because we've been through something really hard, it is sometimes difficult to put yourself in someone else's shoes, it's nearly as if this was too much to be expected from us now. I've fallen victim to that thinking and I realise that as hard as it is, we need to try to see the world through other people's eyes sometimes too, especially our partners'. This is because they are closest to us and inevitably need to be involved in the process going forward, be it getting better after losing your baby, trying again, parenting etc. If we don't try to get them, we will keep falling out. I also think men are notoriously poorer than us when it comes to empathy and emotional intelligence, and so whilst we're hit really hard, unfortunately to succeed we have to find it in ourselves to remain empathetic and understanding because it's the only way, and it's also better for us long term. That however doesn't mean that we can't say how we feel or allow them to completely ignore us or disregard our feelings. At the very least, they need to listen and be respectful, and just be there when we need it most. That is not too much to expect of any partner in my view. Xxx

Also do what makes you feel better, if you want to talk to us, do it. If you want to take a break, do it. I think talking to DH when you're ready might be a good idea.

Just know that these two things that you've said, 1. that it made your relationship stronger, but sometimes you feel like it's breaking, and 2. that you become "needy" and he goes into his "cave" are totally normal reactions after a huge event like losing a child. This doesn't mean your relationship is a failure, it's a temporary stage and you will get through this by trying to improve your communication every single day, as best you can, and both of you being understanding towards each other. At the end of the day, this is how love is preserved, you may not like each other all the time, but you're a team, not enemies. Xxx

Thanks for your detailed and thoughtful replies @MrsMGE I think that’s right. I think we’re in a place where we are low and we need support from the other person but the other person isn’t in a position to give it. He wants more support with his children. I resent him putting that pressure on me when my only child is dead. I want more emotional support. He wants space. He needs more financial support due to his career change. I resent that because he’s not giving me the emotional support I need. It feels like we’re enemies but maybe it’s a bad week or whatever and maybe getting to this point will force us to face things head on and maybe even resolve them xxx

Thank you for the warm welcome, and I’m sorry for those struggling today. @ReeRi one thing you said really resonated, even in these early days for me. I’m your DH, I retreat into my cave whereas my husband wants to talk and show me affection. I just want to go inside myself. After reading your post I think I need to try and talk to him more, even if I don’t have anything to say. I guess so it feels we’re going through it together maybe? @MrsMGE I think you’re right in trying to be empathic to the other person. It’s so hard when it’s such a personal thing and I think, as it happened to me, I must be right! When of course there is no right. As for thoughtless friends, jeez, those stories are awful. My in-laws are quite thoughtless but I’ve been lucky so far with my family & friends who know.
I’m waffling, sorry. Wishing you all a peaceful Sunday. x

@tmc14 Thank you. It is interesting you are the one who retreats. I think we just need to find balance so both of us feel supported. I think I find it easier to cope with when I realise needing space is just his way, just as I need to talk or a hug. It helps not to take it personally x

@reeri Its so hard. Two nights ago I offended my DH by asking him not to hug me! I just felt claustrophobic & that he was treading on my grief (even though it’s his grief too). He felt I was pushing him away (which, tbf, I was). I’m trying hard now to balance what I need with what he needs but I think I fail more than I succeed. My old boss said never make big life decisions on a bad day. Which I think is a good general rule, even when you just want to run away x

I am guessing many, many partners end up together because they are different and they complement each other. In normal circumstances, it helps with balancing each other out when needed. In other circumstances it stimulates a bit of a spark, even if through an argument. But it can be very challenging in tough times, that's why I think it's so important to try to understand each other's starting point, you're not against each other, you just react differently and perhaps not always as the other one would expect xxx

Hi all, glad this peer support thread is here, folks in my life are driving me mad, they have best intentions but it's hard to know what this is like unless you've been there! Bumped into a very pregnant acquaintance last night, didn't know she was pg "oh we just set the intention for this year to have a baby and here we are" just like that, so easy! She knew I'd had a messy mmc too but anyway she's not trying to be insensitive, she just doesn't know how truly shit this is!

I'm 38, we ttc for ages before it happening last Nov then to MMC in Jan this year. It was devastating! A lot of my friends have conceived since, and every month becomes increasingly more difficult. I have to pretend I'm happy for them though I just want to curl up in a ball and die. I never thought I'd be that person, but here we are!

Been ttc again since with no joy. It's probably stress, my husband has been in and out of work, so I've not really been able to take time off as my job is our only consistent income. We're moving abroad where I won't be entitled to any maternity pay etc, I know people manage without but if I'm honest the thought of relying on my husband financially terrifies me! He got into some serious debt before we got married and he (and I by consequence) are still dealing with it. We're going to start couple counselling next week as I harbour so much resentment and anger towards him which flares up in a horribly emotional way every time AF comes. He's brilliant in every other way and I'm slowly accepting that I'll have to be main consistent bread winner, but it's no what i had originally had in mind! 50/50 though can mean energies and not just money so i need to let go of that..

This whole thing has killed my libido too, which is kind of what you need to make a baby! Aargh, it feels so mechanical, it was so much fun when we were innocently trying without all of this heartache and I miss that.

Been going to acupuncture, have stopped drinking and smoking, trying got lose weight, walk a lot with the dog - I have trouble staying positive though and can some days be so cynical. I can have some epic meltdowns, I've probably been depressed all year and am panicking but don't know how to relaaaaax.. any tips?

Sorry for rant, but feel better already! Much love to all on this very taxing journey! Wouldn't wish it on anyone xx

Check this link out about CoQ10

blog.theralogix.com/coq10-fertility/

@mumlili8 thanks for that link. I’m clueless on supplements. Do any of you do anything differently ttc after losing a baby than you did before? I’m about to turn 40 & my husband is a few years older, so probably need to think about upping our game in trying to increase my chances of a healthy pregnancy. x

@tmc14 hi I'm probably the wrong person to give advice I'm bloody crazy and so far nothing has worked for me. I'll give the huge list of what I do but I'm grasping straws tbh. Everytime I mc I add something new but it makes no difference if I'm honest.
Multi vitamin
Folic acid
Q10
Vitamin D
Omega 3,6,9
Vitamins c & zinc mixed
B complex
L-arginine
Everything primrose oil
Vitamin E

I eat 3 Brazil nuts from cd1 until ovulation, pink grapefruit juice from last day of af until ovulation, 1 portion of green leaf veg everyday. Pineapple core from 1dpo to 5dpo. Pre-seed every dtd, After dtd legs up the wall. Fertility massage, fertility yoga, fertility meditation. I've tried everything and willing to try anything if it helps. As you can see I'm quite 😜 crazy so probably best get advice off of one of the other beautiful ladies on here. It's quite obvious that these things don't work for me after 8 mc's. But I'm still hopeful that after my referral for Asherman's syndrome and treatment ( I suspect I have this after 3 x d&c's, 3 x medical management and 2 x cp's) I will be able to have my rainbow baby. I'm also 38 and DH is 46, so time is against us. He's also Catholic so medical assistance is off the table and he won't concider it.

@tmc14 also for got to mention no alcohol ever, no caffeine, no hot tubs or hot baths, no smoking, no sweets or chocolate. I exercise by walking 3 miles every day.

I've just read everything I've listed and I am the most boring person Ive ever met. I think 🤔 I need help!!!

@tmc14 I don't. Careful or not I've still had a miscarriage and tfmr so it obviously doesn't help.
I'm not saying I'll ignore all the advice but just not changing every little thing.

Wow @Lilimum7 that is quite some list!!!! I really hope your investigations work out and the treatment you need is available to you quickly. Everyone here is rooting for you, you have been through so so much and I'm sure all of the ladies on the board can't wait to support you through a happy and healthy 40 week journey to meet your rainbow.

@tmc14 the main thing I've been taking is ubiquinol along with multivitamins - it's quite expensive but apparently far better than standard Q10 (according to my also rather expensive acupuncturist). These are the ones I've been taking l...
www.amazon.co.uk/Ubiquinol-Softgels-Enhanced-Absorption-Coenzyme/dp/B00LFVDK1E
Multivitamin wise I've been taking Pregnacare Max. The image of the pregnant lady on the box is slightly off putting but apparently they are the best option available - the folic acid is in folate form which is more efficiently absorbed by the body.

I have cut back significantly on alcohol and caffeine but haven't given up - my GP and consultant were both adamant that drinking in moderation is fine when TTC (not that I am this month as waiting to see what happens with my body post MC, and 5 weeks have passed without a sign of ovulation....). When I was actively trying I tried to avoid alcohol and keep caffeine to a minimum during the TWW. In terms of baths / hot tubs these shouldn't be an issue when TTC but again during the TWW I'll make sure the bath is warm rather than piping hot. I find baths great for helping me destress so giving them up completely would probably be counter productive to me.

If there is an acupuncturist specialising in fertility in your area I would certainly recommend giving that a try if you haven't already. I believe it supported me in falling pregnant again within three months of my miscarriage, and it helped me through the process of my second miscarriage (MMC passed naturally soon after diagnosis at 8weeks).

Something I would definitely recommend to anyone on here is reading the book 'Miscarriage - What every woman should know' by professor Lesley regan. I purchased the kindle version for about £7 I think and it was a worthwhile investment, it is packed with so much information and tells you what from a medical perspective is proven to help, and which treatments / tips (of which you'll find SO many online....) are not proven to have any benefits. Make sure you get the latest edition as the older ones are already well out of date due to the pace at which research is progressing.

@dogmama welcome, so sorry to hear your story. As you have been TTC for a long time do you have any fertility support / investigations lined up?
I completely sympathise with the sadness that comes with every passing month and every pregnancy / baby announcement. I've just reached the point where I am the only one of my friendship group who doesn't have at least one child. I love all of their little ones dearly but it's so hard to not feel that empty ache each time I see them. Pretty much all of our weekends are spent hanging out with one friend or another and their children, yesterday involved a trip to a pumpkin picking place followed by a playground! I do try to make sure that at least once a month DH and I have something nice lined up such as a spa trip or night away. This certainly helps from a stress relief point of view. We also have had counselling with a therapist who has a specialist interest in fertility / miscarriage / baby loss, talking openly and honestly about my experiences and emotions was like releasing a pressure valve and I'm proud to have reached a point where I can talk about it without bursting into tears. I hope that your couples counselling is helpful, it can be a tough gig but it's worth persevering.
Let us know how you get on and any time you need to rant this is the perfectly place to do it!

@Avocuddles thanks hun I hope so too. I think I've gotten myself into a desperate situation to be honest. I know I'm fooling myself but then I have panics if I forget a vitamin or don't do one of the rituals. The last mc I'm convinced (probably irrational) I caused because I drank a whole bottle of lucozade, in my head the sugar and caffeine overload did it ( told you it's irrational thinking). I tried counciling but it actually made me worse 😂. I'm a control freak and I think all this stuff gives me the false sense that I am in control of the situation. Think I might end up the crazy cat lady in the end.

Oh bless you @Mumlili8 I know that you won't believe it no matter how many people you tell it, but none of your miscarriages will have in any way been caused or even influenced by anything you have eaten, drank, said or done. There is clearly something going on which needs investigating and fixing, but you need to be kind to yourself. The Lesley regan book is worth a read if you haven't already as it talks in detail about the different types of miscarriage and possible treatments with a focus on research and what has been proven / disproven. It made me feel a bit better because I'd been reading so much conflicting (and often inaccurate) stuff online, if you believed all of it you'd feel terrified to ever leave your house and life is far too short to live that way! xx

@Avocuddles I totally agree with you about the stuff you read online, I once read that I should use certain shampoos because of something in it. I just really wish you could have Frank and honest conversation with doctors and that they had time to talk properly with you. I also find that as soon as I'm in a room with a doc I clam up or feel stupid. Getting an appointment where I live takes about 6 weeks or you can see a triage nurse but they just tell you to book an appointment (takes weeks to see someone and then no offence intended but they are foreign and I'm not great with accents. Also I can't ever see the same one more than once or twice before being replaced and I have to keep starting from scratch) I'm just praying that the gynaecology appoint is soon and treatment is quick as I'm aging quickly now

@Mumlili8 your doctor experiences sound shocking!
I'm lucky that I've seen a very good GP over the past nine months or so, starting from when I first had concerns about my fertility / long and irregular cycles and through both miscarriages. It does take about three weeks to get an appointment with a specific GP, although on the day appointments are usually available if you don't mind who you see and are prepared for a telephone queuing system more tense than trying to obtain Glastonbury tickets! Unfortunately the GP in question is retiring next month which I'm sad about - after my recent loss I didn't have to say a word when I entered the consulting room before she said 'I'm sorry, this is really shit isn't it...'. Honesty and empathy make such a huge difference, and I hope that the next doctor I see has at least some of that. I'm off to the fertility clinic tomorrow for an initial consultation and have already been warned not to expect too much in the way of compassion! I'm not sure if IVF is the way for me now that I know that I can conceive (and I know it's not an option for you), but I'm still hoping they have something of use to say. Will keep you all posted....

OK my madness again just watched this

m.youtube.com/watch?v=MMgFmtPbwms

Very interesting and I've been using preseed think I might give it a miss in future