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Conception

When's the best time to get pregnant? Use our interactive ovulation calculator to work out when you're most fertile and most likely to conceive.

Over 40 TTC - lots of baby dust for us...2!

999 replies

Hobbes39 · 18/02/2019 07:58

New thread as last one filling up - will try to link to this in old one...!

OP posts:
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Cleozeta · 11/04/2019 17:24

Reality - when we get to our age, they are very quick to jump on the 'bad eggs' wagon, and use it for every excuse as to why a pregnancy doesn't take, or last. Yes there is higher chances of that being the case, but it seems to be the automatic assumption. From what I've heard & read some highly viable very good eggs in even 20 years olds are not guaranteed to implant, so that's all it is - an assumption based on age. The usual story. They probably just want you to take the easier and more statisticly higher chanced option, but thats not necessarily the right choice for you.

Critter - glad to hear things are going well!

Mimosa - I felt fine one progesterone, no problems at all. And it extended my usual 9 day lp to 15 (and thats just when I chose to stop), I wouldn't bother with cream, its crap and does nothing. I thing the low concentration plus the fact it has to go through skin means it has minimal effect. You need to pessaries really. Only problem is, they are a bugger to get hold of. I had to go through loops to get some, and only have 3 months worth. I think it could be worth a try though as it may balance things for you. Hopefully you will have better lucm getting some from your clinic than I did at first!

CritterTamer · 11/04/2019 17:44

@Realitysucks - how did they say the eggs were abnormal before fertilisation? There is very little that can be told about the quality of the egg before fertilisation, basically just whether it's mature or not and it's shape (poor quality /older eggs often are odd shaped, whilst better /younger ones are round).
Are you being offered a donor egg without extra cost? At my clinic the cost of one donor egg cycle was more than our own egg 3 cycle package!

Is a very difficult decision to make, and it's something that did cross my mind after our first cycle failed. Only you and your DH can decide this one, but personally I wanted to be sure that id thrown everything at it with my own eggs before I considered it. You should be offered counselling if you're considering going DE also. There are reasons why implantation might not occur, even with good embryos - what was your lining thickness at your pre EC scan? There are also other avenues to explore such as NK cell levels but I don't know much about those tests as never went down that route. If it helps I'll list all the things that I did differently in the 3 months between our two cycles, and that made a huge difference to the number and quality of eggs - there may be some things in there that you want to try before going the DE route :

Fertility acupuncture (with a Zita West practitioner) every 2 weeks for 2 months then every week for third month
Fertility yoga daily
Ubiquinol for the full 3 months (dose 300+)
Took Zita West IVF preparation multi vits pack
Vitamin D spray daily
Omega oils capsules
5g raw maca powder drink daily
5g spirulina powder drink daily
90 minutes vigorous exercise every other day
Upped protein intake (eggs and nuts)
Drank raspberry leaf tea every morning and evening (for lining)
Daily meditation and changed job + went to part time working hours to reduce work stress
Had endometrial scratch cycle before the IVF cycle
1 month on testosterone gel (this has to be prescribed by your consultant but you could ask about it)
Changed simulation drugs from just menopur which is FSH/LH simulation to bemfola for a week (FSH only), then menopur for remainder of stims. There evidence that this produces better quality eggs.

Hope there's something in there that might help you come to a decision 😊

Hobbes39 · 11/04/2019 18:15

Hi all - good to hear from you @CritterTamer - sounds like the last trimester with 2 cooking is tough - I bet you can't wait for the last few to pass by!
@Realitysucks - I'm sorry you are in this position...I agree with everything critter said above...
I think donor eggs could be a way forward for you, but I don't think is the right way unless you are ready, and it sounds like you aren't.

We thought long and hard about using donor eggs this time around as I'd always said I'd give it 3 goes with my own eggs, then that would be it. 3 fresh rounds (and 3 frozen) later and I'd got SO close, but no baby, so I was almost there... I was coming round to the idea of donor eggs more (it's much easier for the man, as it's not their genetic link they are giving up) but I needed some more time...

We had counselling where we discussed it and I tried to put my worries to rest, but as we had got closer to success with each cycle I just felt I couldn't give up on my eggs yet, and here we are!

Anyway, personally I feel that at our age it's basically pot luck, and the fewer eggs you get the less chance you get that one good one, but it doesn't mean that the good one isn't in there. Do you get counselling? If so, i def found it helpful as it helped me to realise that I wasn't ready yet for donor eggs, but it's very personal to you, and it's not a decision to be made in a rush, but of course time is not on our sides...

I think clinics can be keen to push towards the more successful outcome for their stats, so don't be pushed to something you don't want.

My completely unscientific opinion on your situation is that you haven't really had much of a chance for them to actually know the issue - you have had only 1 transfer afterall and so they don't actually know whether it's a timing issue / lining issue / egg issue or even sperm issue... they can't possibly know as unless they are at the cutting edge of the IVF science no clinic really knows when there haven't been many eggs or transfers. You don't have many eggs, but that doesn't mean they are all duds, they are making an assumption.
Anyway, sorry if that's a ramble, hope it might help somehow?! You do what's right for you xx

OP posts:
Realitysucks · 11/04/2019 18:26

Aw girls thanks I agree with all of you! I feel like they have jumped on the donor egg bandwagon! And Hobbe sues im not ready. We can get counselling if we want to but I haven’t yet. As for the eggs they never mentioned anything before they fertilised them so as you say Critter they just said I had three two mature and one immature. Yesterday they showed me the screen I didn’t really understand as I think I had kind of zoned out the minute he said abnormal ! Both eggs were recorded as abnormal something to do with seeing something released?!? I asked if they meant fragmentation and he said no I didn’t have that, it was the eggs themselves but it doesnt mean that cannot fertilise and also doesn’t mean they won’t implant. I really banged on about why did they fertilise them, why didn’t they tell us they were abnormal, he basically said look at your age don’t get too hung up about the egg !!!i went though all the things I could do in the next three months, all the supplements to which he basically said your AMH is only 4, you have grade one fertilised eggs and basically if your not pregnant on 3 months is come back,

Realitysucks · 11/04/2019 18:30

@Hobbes39 we’ve had a lot of tests, sperm is supersperm of course, lining is fine and really good apparently, FSH bloods are that of a 20 year old they put it down to quality of eggs and lack of supply as I had endometriosis at 17 so apparently lost a lot of my reserve.

Realitysucks · 11/04/2019 18:32

Oh and yes it’s another 15k for donor eggs !!! We simply don’t have the money now after the house. We are going to see what happens this year but basically I’ve got a year to decide. There is no rush with donor egg, we would want to have it by the time I’m 43 and there is a 5 months waiting list for a donor.

littlemimosa · 11/04/2019 20:46

Cleo - thanks for the advice. Will gps prescribe the pessaeries? I’m signed off from the clinic now... Intersting that you say the cream is weak. Of course all the reviews on Biovea are glowing with regards peri and menopause....

Eloisa- thanks for your message. I like the sound of the hypnosis thing. Do you pay for it? Presume so. Is it expensive? I’ve recently started daily meditation (an app) but it’s not fertility related just general. Im finding it really calming though. How’s the pregnancy going?

Critter - great to hear from you. Can’t believe you’re 30 weeks already. How exciting! Sounds like you’re suffering every conceivable ailment going you poor thing. Hope you’re managing to get lots of rest before those bubbas turn your world upside down in a few weeks!

turquoiseturtle · 11/04/2019 23:56

Hello all,

Thanks for the welcome! This is a really nice supportive thread.

So, I’ve had a tumultuous week. I was going to have IVF and now I’m not.

As I wrote about on my other thread, I was offered NHS-funded IVF, but only if I requested an urgent referral immediately so it could be completed before my 42nd birthday at the start of June. The consultant said he didn’t think it would help because my problem was with poor egg quality, but he would refer me if I asked for it; it was my call.

In the end I did ask for the referral. I did this even though there were various personal circumstances that would make trying to do it before June particularly brutal and stressful. I didn’t go into these on the other thread, because I wanted to make the decision based on long-term odds not on short-term suffering. And I made the decision to do it anyway, even against medical advice and knowing the timing was terrible, because I wanted to give myself that little bit of an extra chance. It was a very hard decision and I agonised over it.

That was on Friday. On Tuesday the consultant phoned me and said sorry, he had made a mistake. I am not eligible for NHS funding. The reason being, I have had 2 recent miscarriages and am therefore not classed as medically infertile.

What??!!!
My head is spinning.

I'm not even sure even why I made this decision that then turned out to be pointless. It was very unlike me to want an invasive medical procedure and to go against medical advice to get it, but I was willing to do it. I am surprised at myself.

Anyway, I know many of you have been through worse than this and you all have my admiration.

I am going on holiday next week, so my plan now is to try to de-stress and relax as much as possible and hope that nature will take its course (in a more positive way)!

Various
@Cleozeta - I am reassured by what you said about fertility specialists jumping to the conclusion that bad eggs are the cause of everything that goes wrong!

@FraterculaArctica how are you doing?

@Catconfusion: you asked some way back if GPs had been supportive about trying to conceive over 40. My experience would be YES. I was nervous to go to the GP and afraid I would be lectured because of my age, but she has been very understanding. At no point have I felt badly treated because of my age (except for this recent IVF funding debacle, which is another kettle of fish!)

The only caveat would be that the NHS doesn’t generally do investigative tests unless you have been trying for a year or more. I went to a private clinic that also has NHS patients, and paid for a fertility work-up including a panel of hormonal tests that the clinic then requested my GP to run. I don’t think I would have been able to get all this without the private self-referral kicking things off.

So yes to emotional support from the NHS, but consider getting initial self-funded fertility testing at a shared private/ NHS clinic early on to speed the investigative process up and not waste any time. That has been my experience anyway, hope it helps.

FraterculaArctica · 12/04/2019 07:31

I'm sorry to hear that turquoiseturtle, how stressful. I hope you have a relaxing holiday and can take stock about how to proceed.

I'm ok, just in the long wait to see whether this one hangs around. I had a lot of cramping a couple of days ago and thought it might be bad news, but seems to have settled down. I wouldn't say DH reacted with excitement when I told him but then he didn't when I got pregnant with DC1, so certainly no chance 3rd time around! We are off on holiday today too, hopefully good timing before the worst of the pregnancy symptoms kick in!

Cleozeta · 12/04/2019 08:16

Mimosa - GP's are very unlikely to prescribe the pessaries unfortunately. But could be worth a try as it may be different in your area. The cream was pointless, I might as well have been slapping baked beans over my 'soft area's' twice a day.

Turtle - sorry you have had such a hard time with your NHS confusion. Having MC does seem to make you suddenly 'fertile' in the eyes of specialists. I was booked in for a Hycosy procedure at my (private) clinic a while back but they cancelled it when they found out I'd had 2 MC. They also said IVF would be pointless for me as I could clearly get pregnant but just had bad eggs and IVF would not change the outcome of that.

Chatbash72 · 12/04/2019 08:18

Oh my goodness so much going on, @CritterTamer so lovely to hear from you and soooooo glad all is going well with the twinnies.
@Realitysucks I agree with the others that med profs are just to quick to jump on the age thing.. think it's for their stats and not the patient. Women have been having babies in their 40's for decades before ivf was even invented!! And we will still, our bodies are more clever at weeding out the not do good eggs.. naturally. I've not been down the ivf route but I get the impression from here they just want your money and the care is quite crappy and shocking.
@turquoiseturtle Sorry about the u turn, holiday and relaxation sound like the best thing.
@FraterculaArctica They are funny creatures, men... enjoy the holiday..
keep positive ladies look at the amazing ladies out there who have had babies in their 40's.. loads of pics of lovely tana and little Oscar.. our bodies are complicated and unique but not past it, whilst af still comes we're still in the game.. baby dust to all x

SparrowSG · 12/04/2019 09:54

@littlemimosa just in case, if you know anyone who is going to Greece, you can buy pessaries over the counter in the pharmacies there (this include Cyprus).

PetraRabbit · 12/04/2019 12:22

I'm nowhere near out of the danger zone so may hang around for a little bit.
Sparrow- hope you are doing ok?
Reality- I also thought about DE and was unsure- similar feelings to you. I think I vaguely concluded that we should try IVF with my eggs if possible, then consider DE if I'd had no luck by 45-ish. I still wonder if I would actually go ahead if it came to the crunch, but I do have one child. If I didn't, I know I would do it to be a mother. I think you have other options left to exhaust so don't get pushed into it. I'd be wary of imposing age deadlines on motherhood. If this pregnancy works out I'll be 44.5 and it doesn't feel too old at all.
Turtle- so sorry they messed you around about eligibility. So disappointing.
Critter- how time flies..... so exciting.

SparrowSG · 12/04/2019 14:00

I am ok thanks Petra, I haven't posted for a while because basically I've been feeling pretty shit and so didn't really want to be the 'bringer of doom and gloom' on this thread! Hopefully though I am now coming out the other side. Was bleeding for over 4 weeks after MMC which I had at the hospital and was back and forth getting scans and sitting for hours to see Drs. No conclusive answers as to why, scan shows uneven lining still over what it should be (19mm I think) and vascular activity. Snr consultant didn't want to go D&C route though as lining is probably inflamed and therefore can easily be damaged. Finally prescribed progesterone to stop the bleeding which it has, but I am stopping them this weekend and I am dreading what might happen after. Meanwhile have had some private blood tests done and very low in iron, deficient in Vit D and for some reason high testosterone (which I had to check if I can take DHEA). My nice NHS Dr is doing some further bloods for me to try to work out why that is high...
So my hormones are all screwy and I'm back on the supplements full time again to try and at least fix something and not feel like I am shattered all the time!!

Great news on your pregnancy, I hope it all progresses smoothly.

And also congratulations to Russkispy, Hobbes and eloisa I hope you also have uneventful pregnancies Smile

Reality, I am sorry to hear your last round was not successful. I do agree with the others though, that I think it is early to start thinking DE. My friend who gave birth at just 46 was told by a UK IVF centre after three failed rounds that she was basically too old and just to give up with OE. Two rounds later in a clinic in Athens and she was pregnant with her OE at 45.

Critter, 30 weeks!! Wow, that has flown by. Does it feel that way to you? Time seems to just disappear the older we get....

Hope everyone else is having a good Friday and will be enjoying a stress free weekend.

SparrowSG · 12/04/2019 14:02

Has anyone ever heard about this?

Shame it was just on as it would have been interesting to attend I think.

www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/fertility-forum-bringing-professionals-and-the-public-together-registration-55631829299#

Dickybow321 · 12/04/2019 14:34

Hi guys
Sorry to just run in after not being on this thread for ages. I will read the thread later to catch up. In the meantime I need to ask a question of the IVF ladies.

I've been looking online and a company called CREATE fertility do natural and modified natural IVF cycles. The success rate in the 40-42 group is purported to be 20% which surprised me, as I thought it was supposed to be 5% or something. Can anybody advise? My 42nd bday is in September so I am thinking if I'm going to do it I really need to get cracking.

Dickybow321 · 12/04/2019 14:37

How do you go about choosing a clinic? Thank you.

mellongoose · 12/04/2019 16:24

So lovely to hear from you @CritterTamer. Glad it's all going smoothly, even if you're struggling a bit. Not long now. It will all be worth it 👶👶

PetraRabbit · 12/04/2019 19:58

Thank you Sparrow. I hope the good luck will rub off on you.
Sorry you've had such a hard time. It sounds like you need some rest and to be kind to yourself. I know it's not easy when you're trying to piece together a puzzle you don't understand. Hopefullu some answers will come soon.

littlemimosa · 12/04/2019 20:47

Thank you Sparrow for the tip.
It’s good to see you even though you’ve been tgrough a tough time. I hope you’re getting chance to rest and properly recover. It also sounds like you’ve got some decent doctors on your side. I hope you get some answers. Stick around as we’re here for you.

littlemimosa · 12/04/2019 20:49

Hi Dicky, no need to apologize. We all run off from time to time and end up coming back:)
I can’t advise on IVF but all I would say is take their stats with a pinch of salt.

littlemimosa · 12/04/2019 20:53

Cleo - baked beans lol. You always have a way with words!
That so interesting. I wonder why the cream had no effect for you. I know your LP was quite short so perhaps you needed the big guns. I’m a bit conflicted with progesterone cos I do actually have a loooong LP. It’s usually 16-18 days so now I’m rethinking the progesterone anyway as I’m presuming I’m ok there?! God it’s such a minefield. Sigh.

Cleozeta · 13/04/2019 08:08

Mimosa you could try the cream if you don't need anything hardcore? You could lso try some oestrogen boosters? Did you ever try soy isoflavones? Thats is oestrogen based and kick starts ovulation

littlemimosa · 13/04/2019 19:27

Cleo - no I didn't. I'm so scared now to self-diagnose as my cycles are so erratic that i'm scared of making things worse. From my reading around peri, I think that what is actually likely happening is my oestrogen is going on a roller-coaster, one month sky high, next month crashing low (although not truly low - as in post-menopausal - but just in relation to what my brain and body are used to). Apparently this is what really happens in peri. The myth is that oestrogen just makes a slow steady departure but apparently new research/thinking says not. More usually you get the see-saw effect. As all this is happening progesterone IS making a slow exit and it's the prog that we need to balance the oestrogen. SO, I'm particularly nervous to try soy now as i do think i'm ovulating but the timing of it is dependent on my fluctuating oestrogen. I'm worried that soy would make my symptoms worse iyswim.
So next cycle i think i'm going to try the prog cream (in the LP) as recent research says that it can actually benefit both high and low oestrogen symptoms. If you're interested in all this take a look at Lara Briden's website. There's LOADS on hormones in peri.
And annoyingly I'm now in my LP and due AF but am currently at about 18DPO! SO now i'm wondering if prog might make it even longer......aaaaaah!

littlemimosa · 13/04/2019 19:29

Here's the link re hormones in our 40s for all you lovely ladies...

www.larabriden.com/what-estrogen-does-perimenopause-how-progesterone-can-help

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