TTC after recurrent miscarriage

[LisaSimpsonsbff]

Hi, just wondering if anyone else was in a similar place to me and wanted to chat about it? I'm 30, TTC my first and have had three miscarriages, all early (two natural MCs at five weeks, then a MMC where a scan at 6+5 revealed development had again stopped at 5 weeks). I've had RMC tests and am just waiting on the results of that but hoping to be able to TTC again from my next period, which should come any day now. I've found throughout the whole thing (have been TTC just over a year now) that it's really helped me to chat with people in similar positions, so if anyone wants to be TTC buddies please let me know!

Yes I definitely do, and it's one of the reasons that I haven't told that many people about our mcs or been open on fb etc.

I just took Screenshots and then stuck them all together!

Sorry been busy today and tired now, so not read all the posts fully, but looked at the charts.

Lisa - hopefully temp will go up tomorrow to not give added confusion and confirm ovulation.

Anne - maybe you have a slow temperature rise after ovulation and could have been day 11 or 12. Was that when you first started getting pain?

Bertie - wow interesting seeing all charts together like that. You seem to get a dip post ovulation quite often.

And Anne - totally agree about not wanting some people to know, as then they know you are trying to conceive and the added questions and pressure that gives.

Hi all, can i join? Just found this thread, I don't usually look at the conception pages these days, too depressingly optimistic for me! I have lost 3 pregnancies - 2 MMCs and 1 TFMR - all to unbalanced chromosomes cause by a translocation. In the past I have got pregnant easily but it’s taking a bit longer this time - every month is a mix of disappointment, and sheer relief at not having to go through it all again for a while longer. I’m in my fertile week just now though and making a real effort this month - I figure if I get pregnant now, it gives me time for a MC and back to normal in time for Christmas. Such a horrible way to look at it…

Sorry to see everyone else’s stories too, but glad to have found this thread. I don’t think I fit in on the other TTC threads, or the infertility threads, and can’t ever see myself on the pregnancy threads! As for not telling people about TTC etc, I didn’t tell a single person about my last pregnancy (except DP obviously), it makes me feel guilty as though I didn’t even acknowledge the baby but I can’t take any more pity from anyone!

HI Scary Fuck! DH has a translocation too - first time I've come across another on here. Do you know much about yours? DH only knows that he's had it because his mum had testing during pregnancy, we're waiting to see a geneticist in January and get more information. Are you on the Facebook group?

Sorry for my phone's terribly dirty vocabulary.

Haha Bertie have realised I may not have chosen the best new user name....
I know ALL about my translocation, it took over my life for a while and I have researched everything there is to research. I was on the FB group but have unfollowed as it was all getting a bit much for me. Ultimately there is nothing I can really do but try again and accept the likelihood of more MCs. Sorry to hear about your DH's as well, it sucks.

Noo it's a great username, simple and memorable :o I'm slightly concerned I must swear a lot for it to not choose duck. Anyway am on computer now so you are safe.

I can definitely see that the group might get a bit much, I am still in the gathering all info stage because it's frustrating me that we only know the merest hint. But being on the group definitely brought me down to earth on statistics and chances etc and it was very sobering reading for a while. At the moment I'm enjoying the success stories and it's not too much but I think it will be more real when we get the karyotype done and sit down and have the results explained. We have had two miscarriages at 5w4d but recently nothing for just over a year now, which is almost more frustrating in my mind than the miscarriages were, though they were horrible. I have read that BT can cause embryos to be rejected straight away rather than implanting properly as well as causing miscarriage, and that there are several combinations possible from each translocation so it could be that one particular combo caused our two miscarriages, and another one is causing this lack of... anything, but it's just a theory really. DH has had a sperm analysis which came back fine but I know they don't pick up unbalanced sperm like that.

That's why I'm here on recurrent though rather than TTC after miscarriage general, because I know we have higher odds of miscarriage in the first place and the relentlessly positive attitudes of other TTC areas are, like you say, difficult. Totally appropriate for them but I would rather be more conservative and pessimistic until we know everything is okay.

Hi scaryduck. I'm so sorry for your losses. How did you find out about your translocation? Did you know before TTC or was it discovered after the TFMR?

I find it hard not to project my own experiences onto a lot of the other TTC posts. People posting a positive and a load of people saying 'you're going to be a mum!' makes me feel anxious, but I have to remind myself that for a lot of people it does work just like that. I think I've (inadvertently, obviously) scared a couple of friends - very few people have had children yet, and the four that have in our social group either had oops pregnancy or conceived within a few months of trying, so I'm like this reminder that it might not always work like that.

Sorry for your losses Scaryduck and for what you've been through. Glad you found us though and hope you find this a helpful thread. I'm in the same boat having caught every time for 3 BFPs and now it's been a while. I've recently started acupuncture, which won't be for everyone but I'm finding it helpful and chinese medicine woo aside, she did make the point that after the battering my body has taken she's not surprised that despite well timed shagging and all the vitamins I'm rattling with, my system has probably been focussed on healing rather than doing it all again for a few months. Which makes sense and made me feel a wee bit better. I hope you're looking after yourself, with whatever makes you feel as alright as you can

I got my crosshairs! CD15 Bertie Still giving me high chances in FF, which is nice. God I've become dependent on virtual pats on the back.... So sad!

What do you make of the big dip again? It's only just over the coverline. Does that mean I'm out or would you only expect elevated temps post ov when pregnant after implantation if/when?

Lisa, you've been through so much, the last thing you need to do is berate yourself for what other people might think about it. I do know what you mean, I worried on threads before that I'm a symbol of what I struggle with sometimes - how many more losses before I get my baby! But what can we do? Pat ourselves on the back for still standing and feel gratitude that other people can have the easy, optimistic, straight forward pregnancies we sadly haven't had. The shittest thing is having the chance of a stress free naive pregnancy taken away forever. And while you're dealing with that, don't add to it by feeling bad about how your friends might feel x

Hi Lisa and Anne and thanks!
Yes, I did find out about the translocation after the TFMR. My first pregnancy was a MMC, and I was told it was just a one off and everything would be fine. Sure you all heard that too! Then the next pregnancy was obviously anxiety filled but i had 3 perfect scans before they discovered fatal abnormalities. So TFMR and the baby tested for unbalanced chromosomes - was told nothing to worry about, just a random occurrence but they'd test us both anyway. And of course, it was positive. Think I was in shock and denial and got pg straight away, somehow though it might be different but MMC again. I feel pretty hopeless now. Conservative and pessimistic sums me up Bertie!

I do acupuncture as well Anne, I don't know if I actually believe in it but it's really relaxing and I love my acupuncturist. The other things that help me are wine and running, more wine than running though tbh...

What can be done to help with future pregnancies scary?

My god but Chinese medicine is doing well out of us lot!

I think whatever makes you feel better, more in control of it all, like you're looking after yourself, is to be commended. Pilates is making me appreciate what's good, strong and capable about my body. I've had moments of utter despair at my failures to make and keep a baby, so focussing on getting it healthy and celebrating what it CAN do is positive. I do tue occasional jog but I never last long! Wine is great

Also gin. And becks blue which I got into when pregnant. So few calories it's basically flavoured water!

I need to shift a few lbs and I feel relatively motivated to do it.

But the rest is as important. Long baths, good books, nice potions and lotions, quality time with DH, seeing friends when I want to, staying in when I don't.

Nice to have you with us and I obviously hope you're not here too long x

So, a pretty mixed afternoon. Went to the hospital for my test results - an hour after my appointment time I went to ask someone about it and it emerged they had forgotten us. We then saw a doctor who told us all my tests have come back normal, that I've 'just been unlucky' and 'been quite unfortunate'. I snapped at her about that, saying that I didn't think it was the best way to say it (so unlike me - I normally have a deep cultural deference to doctors - but I got cross) and then she looked like she was going to cry. So that was great. Their advice is that there's nothing wrong with me but that next time I miscarry I should do it into a pot so they can test it. When I specifically prompted her she said I could have 'an' early scan 'if you want it', which isn't what I was led to believe, and which also definitely isn't what's recommended as best treatment. So that upset me, as it's clearly also going to be a battle to get anything out of them when I'm next pregnant.

However, I then had my follow-up phone consultation with Coventry (by complete coincidence they were on the same day) and thank God I did. That was warm, sympathetic, and she said she didn't believe that three miscarriages at 30, however early, was just bad luck. My test results from there were also all normal, but they're going to put me on the progesterone regime for three months, and then, assuming I'm not pregnant by then, I'll have another consultation.

Obviously I know there's not much they can do for me if my tests are normal, but I just found the doctor's attitude so upsetting and dismissive. I burst into floods of tears in the hospital corridor, which wasn't great as it was a bit of a spectacle. I just felt so hopeless, like this is never going to work for me and that no one even cares. As I said, though, Coventry cheered me up a bit, really by just being nice about it.

Sorry to hear about the rubbish doctor Lisa. I think ultimately they really don't know much about miscarriage at all - the consultant I saw at the RMC basically said as much, he'd written off my test results before even doing the tests. It is SO unhelpful to be told it's just "bad luck". Glad that Coventry were more helpful!

Anne there is nothing much to do for future pregnancies - I can have as many early scans as I want but I find them really stressful and it seems a bit pointless, it's either fine or it's not. Next time I will go for a scan at 8 weeks (as they usually die at 7) then a CVS if I make it that far. Can't really picture that now though.

Pilates sounds good, might give that a go!

Ah Lisa glad Coventry were nicer. Was that the same doctor as before?

Anne no don't worry about dips as it's about the overall pattern, not anomalies of a day or two here and there. In terms of knowing whether or not you're pregnant, it won't affect temps until well after implantation anyway as it's progesterone rising again which pushes them up further. That happens around the time you'd get a BFP or your period.

Scary I was thinking about what you said earlier about planning for getting over a MC before Christmas and I realised I've been doing this too I know I've miscarried before at about 5-6 weeks so I do tend to look ahead to things and think about when it will be in terms of fertile/pregnant/period/potential miscarriage. I'm going away in November and I've twigged it will be almost exactly, BFP or AF time. So I'll be drinking heavily or celebrating. Don't know how DH will feel about me being away! But it's so unlikely we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. I would probably be fine until I got home anyway.

The nice thing about Germany I must admit is that they have ultrasound scanners in the gynecologist's office so you get scanned all the time. And blood tests constantly which I used to find really annoying because I hate needles, but I've got used to it now and I appreciate getting concrete numbers of whether my hCG is increasing. I got a picture of the weeny sac with the first one even though it wasn't meant to be. And she showed me both times the deflated/empty sac which helped me process it I think. I didn't notice the first one pass at all so it was helpful to have something concrete like that.

No, the doctor I saw before was nice! I've done nothing but think about it all and one level I was unreasonable - there's nothing they can do to help me, she can't change that - but on another level I am so angry and upset at the way she treated it. There were 100 better ways to deliver the same core message.

Yes defo agree. Sorry I thought you had a previous bad experience but perhaps I was getting you mixed up with another poster.

I think that may have been Flynn? She had a horrible appointment recently I think. Head is whirling at the moment - I'm really shocked at how much this has affected me, I feel like I'm back in that hopeless place I was right after the last miscarriage. Hoping I'll feel better in the morning. I know I'm reacting disproportionately but just keep crying.

Ah yes that's right, sorry, I'm so bad with names. It's so late, are you trying to sleep? I would get up and do something different. Run a bath or have a shower if it won't disturb your neighbours. Go and sit outside if it's safe and possible. I used to smoke - don't now obv but sometimes it's just being in the cool still silent night air and breathing and looking at the stars which helps you feel a bit more grounded.

Don't spend loads of time online because it will feed the awake/ruminating cycle, but you could watch something silly with def no mention of pregnancy and/or read an old favourite book or do something meditative like colouring, drawing. Drink some water or make yourself a tea - decaf if you like.

Hope you feel better soon x

Welcome ScaryDuck. Sorry to hear of your losses. I'm a fan of the running/wine coping strategies too and can second the wine sometimes winning!

Lisa I'm sorry your appointment was rubbish. It is crap when you go with all this hope of this person being able to offer something to help you and getting nothing. It feels to me that unless you go to one of the big RMC hospitals it is very much a side line. I certainly don't feel like my consultant is hugely interested in it, more that it is just something she has to do as part of her job. Also, I think ultimately they just don't get the emotional toll, and think that people can go through an unlimited number of losses.

Thanks so much for the kind messages, and particularly for the support last night, bertie. I'm still feeling a bit wobbly today but much better, and I'm sure I'll be ok soon. I have to start shoving progesterone up my bum from tomorrow, so perhaps that will distract me! I was really surprised by how upset I got - I'd been feeling so much more even recently.

Am considering sending an email to PALS at the hospital, very clearly saying that this is feedback not a formal complaint - I absolutely don't want to make a formal complaint - saying that I think there are things they could do better. For instance, just the very fact that the previous doctor I saw started our appointment by saying 'I'm really sorry for what you've been through and that you've been having such a difficult time' made a huge difference to how I felt about the rest of the appointment. I really do think that most women in this situation would also find the phrase 'bad luck' (a. luck is not a medical concept, b. bad luck is when you find the bus is pulling away as you get to the stop, or when you want a cheese sandwich but there's only ham left. It isn't losing three pregnancies) trivialising and upsetting. I would have much preferred something like 'three random and unconnected occurrences' to make the same point. I also think it wasn't great that she didn't say anything comforting - she could, for instance, have pointed out that my odds of success in my next pregnancy are good, but she didn't - and nor did she offer me any follow-up care until I specifically told her that I knew I was supposed to get this. I just think a bit of guidance on this could make it a lot better - I know they don't get a lot of recurrent miscarriage patients because it's not a specialist centre (everyone else in the waiting room bar one couple were women over 60; it's a general gynaecology department) but I'm not literally the only one so she will have to do it again in future!

What do we think? Wasting my time? Mean (again, she wasn't awful, just not great so I don't want to be vindicative)?

Lisa I think if you feel the care you have received is below what should be expected than yes, contact PALS. Maybe write it out today, sleep on it and then read it again before sending it to make sure you're happy with it?

I shall fess up to being a doctor for this bit. I know there will be countless things I've said to patients and relatives over the years that they will have felt have been insensitive or could have been said in a kinder way. We need feedback to know what we can do differently in the future. I now mainly work with people who have brain injuries, often very severe, and no matter how much I've been taught about empathy, I'm never going to come close to understanding what it is like to be in their position. I think the same applies to a lot of the doctors we have encountered because of recurrent miscarriage but some are probably better at acknowledging that than others. As a doctor I sometimes worry that saying platitudes will come across as patronising or they may just seem like empty words.

There's certainly some things I am planning on feeding back to my hospital. Same as you, not a complaint, more feedback. Such as one of the nurses at my EPU speaks incredibly quietly, bordering on whispering, which isn't great when you're trying to work if she said there is or isn't a heartbeat. But she probably thinks that that is being sensitive. I've decided to wait until the end of the journey so to speak to do this though.

Sorry, bit of a waffly post.

I think that is a good idea and I agree that unexplained or seemingly unconnected would be better ways to phrase it than "unlucky".

But it is quite personal so I don't know. But medically unexplained is more accurate than bad luck. It could be that there's a cause they don't know about.