TTC after recurrent miscarriage

[LisaSimpsonsbff]

Hi, just wondering if anyone else was in a similar place to me and wanted to chat about it? I'm 30, TTC my first and have had three miscarriages, all early (two natural MCs at five weeks, then a MMC where a scan at 6+5 revealed development had again stopped at 5 weeks). I've had RMC tests and am just waiting on the results of that but hoping to be able to TTC again from my next period, which should come any day now. I've found throughout the whole thing (have been TTC just over a year now) that it's really helped me to chat with people in similar positions, so if anyone wants to be TTC buddies please let me know!

How wonderful Lisa, so relieved and happy for you! How many weeks today?

When might you have a scan Foxtrot?

Only 6+4 so such, such a long way to go - of course I know that seeing a heartbeat doesn't mean it'll stay that way. They've booked me in for another one in two weeks - I think they'll scan me fortnightly until either something goes wrong or I get to 12 weeks.

That's good, keeps an eye on things. The stats for a heartbeat at 8 weeks are very positive. How are you feeling?

Great news Lisa! I'm so pleased for you. Is this the furthest you have got? Will you have any more early scans?

Fox I hope things are ticking along quietly in there for you. And also that your GP is helpful and not an arse! Will your scan be a private one?

Anne, bridesmaiding in Italy sounds immense!

Miami, thinking of you.

It'll be lovely

I've found it a bit difficult committing to the practicalities of flights and dresses as I've been expecting to have a baby by then or be pregnant. As the months have passed that's clearly not fucking happening! So the most I could be now is 7 months pregnant and may as well just book flights and a dress and get on board with it. If I need to change the dress due to a pregnancy I'll be bloody delighted Being pregnant would give me an excuse for being the chubby one too. I'm not actually fat but the other 3 are skinny minnies!

Does it help to refer to it as a miscarriage or a pregnancy loss rather than something blighted, which is such a horrible word? Sorry your GP is an arse. Is there another one at the same practise you could see instead? Good plan to have a private scan. Sure you definitely won't get one from your EPU?

Totally agree with your logic anne - if you're seven months pregnant by then there'll be so much to be happy about that altering a dress won't seem like a big deal! Whereabouts in Italy is the wedding?

Thanks keepon - yes, it is the furthest I've got. Which of course doesn't make me safe, or anything like it (as we all sadly know you're never really safe, but I'm still right in the riskiest bit), but has made me feel a bit better by feeling like it's broken the pattern - all my previous pregnancies ended at 5 weeks pretty much on the dot (though one of them then hung around to be discovered at a scan two weeks later) and it felt like exactly the same thing must have been going wrong each time. So I sort of feel now like this one is it's own thing, with its own chances of success or failure, not just a re-run of the last three, if that makes sense?

Lisa hope all continues to go well. How exciting! Little growing bean :)

Fox I totally agree!

Is blighted ovum the same as missed miscarriage?

I think a blighted ovum is a specific type of missed miscarriage where development stopped particularly early, so that there's a gestational sac but no embryo? Sorry if that's wrong - happy to be corrected!

I agree it's a nasty term. So many of them are - 'chemical pregnancy' is sort of dismissive, and 'miscarriage' sounds like the woman did something wrong. Apparently in the US the standard medical term for recurrent miscarriers is 'habitual aborter', which is really awful.

Habitual aborter?! That is terrible!

I read somewhere recently about a new term for ERPC but I can't remember what it is. It was better though.

I've read that the Miscarriage Association uses 'Surgical management of miscarriage' rather than ERPC - is that what you're thinking of?

I know, habitual aborter really is dreadful, isn't it? When I read it I thought 'ah yes, my worst habits - biting my nails and spontaneously aborting desperately wanted pregnancies'.

Yes, I've been confused by that too. For instance, most women in my situation in my last pregnancy would have started bleeding naturally before they were scanned - it was only because I was so anxious that I got them to scan me in the middle. I would guess (maybe incorrectly?) that almost all miscarriages are missed to some extent as surely there's almost always a gap between development ending and the pregnancy tissue passing? Though maybe I'm using the term incorrectly for my last pregnancy as I did eventually start bleeding by myself (two and half weeks after development stopped), and perhaps MMC should only be used for pregnancies where only medical intervention could end it?

In a similar way, I've seen the definition of a chemical pregnancy as 'a miscarriage where the pregnancy was never seen on an ultrasound' - but isn't that quite dependant on whether or not you persuade anyone to scan you at 5/6 weeks?

I have an MVA which is an ERPC under a local. Seemed like a good idea as I’d get to go home straight after but it was a mistake. Wouldn’t choose that option again.

In my case it really was missed as the baby stopped developing at 8+5 but the sac etc carried on as if it hadn’t so when I had the scan at 12 weeks it had already been weeks and they had no idea when I’d start to lose it. As it was, I had two lots of failed survival management which didn’t work as the sac was quite big and it all got stuck. Never known back ache like it. I don’t know what would have happened if I hadn’t found out it had failed from a scan. I had so many symptoms and the pregnancy was continuing on but with a nearly 9 week fetus which had died. Baffling when you think about it.

The terms are pretty grim, I completely agree. The nurse at the EPU kept apologising for the “products of conception” terminology on the paperwork and saying “pregnancy” instead. She was so kind. Not an enviable job and she was wonderful to us.

I looked into chemical pregnancy recently and it seems it is a term used in cases of assisted conception such as IVF etc - they'll do the assisted procedure and then wait for confirmation. First you'll get chemical confirmation - urine test basically - which usually then proceeds into a clinical pregnancy ie one they can identify in the clinic with rising hCG levels, scans, and later on the actual presence of a massive bump etc. Chemical pregnancy was the name they gave to those pregnancies which were detected via urine but did not proceed to be clinical.

Because obviously this term is used with people who are undergoing fertility treatment it seems to have seeped into general consciousness via infertility forums etc and hence people think it applies to unassisted conception as well, which I suppose there's no reason why it doesn't, but I am just not a fan of the term really. To me it makes sense to be used in a clinical sense but not outside of that. But obviously if someone finds it helpful then that's up to them!

My miscarriages have been pretty early but I've usually started to miscarry immediately, or even before the embryo stops developing. I only had the earlier scans with my first one, but there were I think three days between seeing a sac and then seeing an empty one and the empty one was much bigger - about 16mm to 5mm at the first one I believe. And it was flat and sort of C-shaped as though something had been torn out of it. So even after I was bleeding and cramping, it was still growing. And I lost symptoms pretty much immediately too. I think missed miscarriage is when your body continues to "feel" pregnant for several weeks potentially afterwards. I have heard of women having perfectly normal scans and then beginning to bleed and pass the pregnancy a few days later, so it can happen that it's lost straight away. I don't know which would be the more common outcome.

Hi ladies
Congratulations fox and Lisa. So delighted for you both.
I have been having a massive struggle with the world for the last couple of weeks so feel a bit detached from reality. As Eilidh's actual due date approaches I feel like I am just now beginning to comprehend the enormity of what has happened. Sorry that you are also struggling with a December due date Keepon. The paralysing fear I can totally understand.
I have been spending some time reading up and following some stillbirth and late term loss people and they are truly amazing. I feel a bit better armed for what comes next having read some of their stories, Tommy's and all the work they are doing really does give me hope for the future. Maybe not my future but just the future in general, there are way too many Eilidh's, way too many parents grieving what could and should have been. Tommy's also have opened a dedicated rmc, have any of you encountered that/ read about it. They seem to be leading the way in research and developments so definitely worth chatting to for a different perspective if any of you are struggling with current treatment plans. Or want to get involved in the research in any way.
I have spent the morning ringing the hospital to chase up our post mortem appointment. I just want to know if we are likely to hear from them before Christmas, I don't think that is much to ask.
In terms of the medical terms used, try in uterine Fetal Demise - 'fuck off that's my baby' is I feel the only appropriate response to that.

I'm so sorry that you're particularly struggling at the moment miami. I think it's very normal (and perhaps your mind's way of trying to protect you) that the full scale of your grief and loss hits you bit by bit rather than immediately after, but it must be so, so hard. You're being incredibly strong but it's ok to have days, weeks, months where you feel like you're struggling with the world. Are you having any grief counselling, or might that be something you'd consider?

I completely agree that it is more than reasonable to ask the hospital for a timeline, and I hope they get back to you quickly and helpfully.

The Coventry clinic I went to is one of the Tommy's research centres - and, even though I didn't have the specific thing they tested me for, I would really, really recommend them. I did sign up to be tested for future studies - they said they were doing a lot of work around implantation and so needed women who had had multiple early losses as well as those who had suffered later ones.

Miami I cannot even begin to imagine what you are going through right now. I have no words but if you need to come here to rant/rave/talk about Eilidh please do. Do you mind me asking when your due date is? I hope you get an appointment at the hospital soon.

Miami

Thinking of you.

Is anyone testing soon? I'm not so could use some vicarious anticipation! Pretty please?

Hmmmm. Not sure Anne. I'm not sure who is testing in general these days. Presuming (hoping) my cycles have gone straight back to normal after stopping all the hormones I'm CD15 so I won't be testing for 2 weeks.

Just to lighten the mood. Last night I had a dream my male cat was pregnant. I knew he was pregnant because I got him to pee on a stick Clearly losing it!