Immune/NK issues - aka Pred Thread no.20!

[harrietm87]

Hi all, thought I'd get the ball rolling on the new thread.

Welcome all with immune/natural killer cell issues.

It's been a while since a new thread so thought it might be helpful if we all added our stats:

I'm harriet, age 30, TTC#1.
3 mcs (2 at 5 weeks, 1 mmc at 9 weeks).
Hypothyroid and high NK cells.
Cycle 2 on pred!

Thanks Luna and Lara. Yeah, feeling a lot less like an irresponsible idiot now!

Yes, Lara, my DH definitely seems weirded out by MN too! I also told him I only use the one thread that's specific to the meds I'm on; he seemed relieved

Gosh Amy that seems like weird advice to me. Plenty of us have had success having started taking pred at bfp. No wonder you had a little cry, I bet you feel like you're on a crazy roller coaster!! Was his advice based on your own concerns about the plan & worry about the drugs? It kind of sounds a bit flippant to me, I'm really surprised he suggested it to be honest. Of course it doesn't mean that this pregnancy will fail, I really hope that the fragmin is enough to keep it going and that baby grows nice and strong.
Are you going back for a scan??

Oh Amy... that is most unsettling and I totally feel for you. How many weeks are you, literally BFP the day you told us? That's early for him to say not worth it; but he will have his reasons... remind me what the Fragmin is (sticky blood, or is that the Heparin?)

How do you feel now? What's your safe date; the date by if you see a heartbeat you'll feel better? And when is your first scan?

Seeking - I told him I had ttc this month thinking I would try just the blood thinners, but that I had chickened out and was here to get all the drugs. I was certain of my decision.

He said from a scientific point of view, he'd suggest I don't take the immune therapy now because apparently they have the most effect when they're taken right from conception. If I have another MC, we won't know for sure whether the pred helped or not. And if I take pred next time and lose that, then the root cause of my MC might be something else entirely. Trial and error.

I initially found the idea of doing fair tests and good science on my future potential baby absolutely intolerable, sobbing in Nero. I'm not thinking rationally though, I'm highly emotional right now. I really lean on my partner for his help here.

They said I could go for it anyway, they advised against it, but I can always ring them tomorrow and get a drip asap... but the effectiveness at this point is questionable. Mr S said I should save my money!

He was absolutely lovely today btw! Like a completely different dude.

Thanks Luna, what a freakin' mess I am!!

I'm 4+1 today, and booked in for a scan in 2 weeks with Mr S at which point I'll be 6 ish and hoping for a heartbeat. What a nail biting, excruciating wait this going to be.

Sorry, yes, Fragmin is a blood thinner injection... five quid a pop, per day for 9 months! Youch on all levels!

Hi Amy, sorry I missed your post cos I must have pressed send around the same time! I can imagine you are very upset by the advice as it does indeed sound like it was delivered "scientifically" which just doesn't really cut it when it's YOUR baby. But he will have his reasons, as the others said. I believe Drttc was concerned for the same reason, hadn't taken Pred before BFP, but all is well now. You're in good hands so have faith.

Wow amy I'm really surprised by that but guess mr S knows best. Fingers crossed for you - yet another agonising tww. Glad he was nice to you at least!

seeking you're so far along now! So happy you met just in real life!

just the scan sounds extremely thorough and I'm sure the heart thing is nothing to worry about. Did he say whether there's any chance it could
correct itself before birth? I think that happens sometimes. Hope you're ok - sounds like everything else was totally perfect.

And poppy I'm delighted for you too - sounds like the dr you saw was really sensible. Such great news - go forth and get bonking! (Not blinking, thanks autocorrect...)

I'm really pissed off cos I'm still in work right now and the end is not in sight. I'm so knackered and I had to miss my NHS scan, and they couldn't reschedule it until next Wednesday - a whole week! I so wanted the reassurance. My last one was last Monday so over a week ago. Realistically there is no reason to think it won't be fine (other than I've never got this far ever, and I've got no symptoms apart from tiredness and orange cravings...) but I'm still worried. Might book a private one but also know it's a waste of money as it won't change anything really anyway. Really hate my job sometimes. At least DH is back from his travels tomorrow.

Oh harriet, that's a very late night! You must be very important!! Glad DH is back!!

Amy, ouch indeed ££! So how did you wake up this morning? Decided to go with the advice, or start the protocol anyway?

I'm feeling very grumpy this morning, had a massive Pred mania surge and insomnia all night, and woke up to a startling white BFN and have convinced myself now that I'm out this month (low mood means I'm unable to think of any other result appearing over the weekend, and that I'll ever be pregnant ever again, and that we will never find world peace, and that I'll never grow my hair as long as I'd like... etc.) 😭😪

Anyway... test again tomorrow, chin up etc.

Morning girls!

Glad all went well at the clinic Just/Seeking! Lovely you met.
Amy do you feel like Dr S would be supportive if you said you've considered his advice but would like to start the plan anyway? My sister had 4 consecutive miscarriages, her next pregnancy was successful after starting baby aspirin. The Heparin might be all you need to see you through, but I can totally understand how unnerving it must be just to 'wait and see'.
Harriet what is it you do for work?? Hope you have a better day today.
Poppy so glad you're feeling less anxious, the whole Zika thing is a minefield, but the general advice out there seems very over cautious to me. Happy bonking!!
Sheepy we will be cycle buddies this month, I'm currently CD6!
Luna sorry for the BFN, how may dpo are you? You haven't been on the Pred for 10 days yet have you?! FX you're just too early.

I'm starting a castor oil routine today. Sorry for TMI but I had a very clotting AF again this month. Was YouTubing self fertility massage and came across loads of tutorials about a castor oil ritual you can do between finishing AF and ovulation. Supposed to help your uterus prepare for pregnancy, and involves relaxing for half an hour with an oiled cloth and hot water bottle on your lower tum. If nothing else it will be nice to just have that time set aside to relax/practice some mindfulness. Also have acupuncture this afternoon. Throwing everything including the kitchen sink at this cycle!! x

I can see where he's coming from scientifically but 2 out of 3 pregnancies with him I've taken pred from bfp and he's never said basically don't bother. He's always told me that it can go either way and that there's no way of knowing, which I obviously accepted.
Obviously my first pregnancy under him didn't end well but not down to treatment failure.
Myself, snoopy and sunny (I think) have all had success starting pred at bfp.
As long as you feel comfortable on the treatment plan your on, that is the main thing. I really hope that when you go back you see a happy, flickering little heartbeat. Good luck Hun!!

Oh Harriet, working so late!! Take it easy!! A week will fly by, I know really you want the reassurance now but you have no reason to worry. I'm sure baby is super happy and comfy!

Luna... sorry it's a bfn today, hopefully it's just a little bit early and will be a bfp in a few days.

Day 10.... I know it's early, it's my mood that's made me weary... like you and Poppy last month, I'll feel better once the result is 100% confirmed (I tire of the uncertainty) and I can then move on, have a chunk of Stilton, get my roots done, slather on a fake tan and get ready for Boinkfest #2 🙃

Hi all,

Luna, sorry Hun, what a rubbish feeling it is and one we all know too well. You're not out though, are you? How many dpo are you again?

Harriet, so annoying! I understand why missing the scan has made you anxious; our routines are so important in reassuring us and giving us a bit of insight into and control over what is otherwise a very scary situation with no info. However, as you get further into the pregnancy your risk is lowering, so in theory you can assume a better outcome in the absence of new scan info.

Tee4me, sorry you're having a rough time. My AFs have been awful since my second MC; heavy, clotty and painful but last month was a bit better. I think your massage and acupuncture plan sounds good. have you read any of the Emma Cannon books like the Baby Making Bible and Your and Your Bump? It's all about how Chinese medicine and acupuncture can enhance the whole journey, form the foods you eat through to "getting the mind onboard." She even does a "womb greeting" ritual!

Hi Luna, I see you answered my question before I messed send! 10dpo still borderline, only about half of tests are positive at that stage. Adds to the angst though, doesn't it. Limbo is awful!

Poppy, glad the specialist echoed our thoughts. There is no way you're being irresponsible- if that was the case every pregnancy would be as there are are risks regardless! Remember... there are women that smoke, drink, etc during pregnancy!!! We are probably the most careful and considered soon to be mums ever. Absolutely go for it 🙌🏼🙌🏼❤️
I feel ok about the valve. He did say the chances were that it would either resolve by my 20 week scan, or just persist. He looked at all other factors and just about ruled out that it would get any worse. Assured that it should affect development. Compared to my other fears that my body is going to sabotage my pregnancy, it actually doesn't seem that bad.

Amy, there must be a medical reason for mr S's decision. I have chatted to so many women in the intralipids room that have had their pred late. A lady yesterday started all hers at 8 weeks as she didn't realise she was pg!
Re Fragmin- Move around after your jab. I stick mine in the front of my thigh then go for a hop up and down the stairs to move the burny liquid around my system. They are the one thing I get prescribed by docs, 8 quid a box instead of 50! Take your blood results to doc and save some dollars :)
I would be tempted by at least the intralipids which is just an egg/soy fatty mix that dulls down nk activity. Maybe you have such a small nk count that he's sure it's your blood causing issues.
I'm not sure I would accept the 'trial and error' theory either hun. He does know his stuff though.
If you don't mind me asking- When do you normally lose babies and what's the level/state of your nk cells?
It needs a lot of thought and discussion- hope we can help with that xx

Harriet, I'm gutted for you! I love my scans and have now gone down to one every 2 weeks (eeeeek) I would probably go private if I were you, I love seeing the progress... but then I'm a scanaholic lol

Luna day 10 is probably too early! Day 9 was a bfn for me! When you get pregnant you can grow your facial hair really long to compensate 😂 ... def no world peace while the trumpet is around I'm afraid.

Go for it Tee! Perhaps you could both oil up and do some full body slides as part of the baby making ritual?! Haha. I really hope it works for you

Sorry for my huge essays girls lol

Xxx

*assured that it shouldn't affect development!

Oh luna it really is super early. Apparently each pregnancy is different (depends how long the egg takes to reach the uterus) but I'm pretty sure there is also a trend from previous pregnancies (maybe how much hcg you produce?) as to how early you can get a bfp - what dpo have you had them before? loads of people don't get a bfp until after they miss a period so don't give up yet! How are you feeling physically?

Thanks for sympathy for my horrible job! I'm a solicitor in a big firm in London tee- it can be quite relentless, though up until yesterday the summer has been quieter so should be grateful for that, and was a one off deadline for some advice so I sent it in at 1am and now it's done.

tee I've heard about that castor thing - people on a ttc thread I've been on we're doing it and sounds lovely and relaxing, and hopefully useful too!

amy how are you feeling today?

just! only just saw your message as was typing my own essay lol! Really glad you feel ok about the heart valve - you've been so anxious I was worried would really get to you. Seems like it is nothing to worry about though so you're right to be relaxed! After all this crap we can cope with anything!

Poppy no worries at all love, thanks for the thoughts. Really appreciate it.

Oh Luna and your middle of the night pred surge! I'm holding out for world peace by next month, btw :). BFP will be waiting for you next time, it won't be long. If you can, go and have a 'little lift' today. My friend swears by them. It could be anything from a quick massage to painting your nails or soaking in the bath. It really works. Big hugs.

Harriet you poor thing working all hours. Must be infuriating to be stuck there. I hope you got home and had an amazing well deserved sleep and an easy morning.

Tee all the best for this cycle, the castor oil routine sounds amazing and relaxing. Great for mental preparations too.

I've woken up a bit clearer and braver and decided to keep going with Mr S's advice this month and stick to just the Fragmin blood thinning injections. I really hope this is the right decision, but there is no way of knowing.

Anyone got a crystal ball they could loan me?

Amy, I must say, my specialist also says he doubts it is worth taking Pred after BFP. He made me take it right from the decision to start TTC this time (hence being on it for five months already, argh!). But as the others, none of this means you'll go wrong as Dr S has tailored his plan to suit your situation and that is bound to be the right decision.

No crystal balls; all I can suggest of the spooky stuff is the Law of Attraction; like attracts like so positive thoughts and visualisation bring positive outcome. I think it works enough of the time for me to believe in it tentatively. (And without blaming myself for all the crap things I may or may not have brought on - that's a joke!) There are some god books you can dip in and out of.

Thanks girls, shall dream of moon beards and plots to overthrow Trump (perhaps Ally McHarriet can help get the impeachment underway?) - and I treat myself to some lovelies this weekend 👨🏽🍭🍸

Glad you feel more positive Amy, remember you are in a much better situation than the other times 💪

Poppy interesting that your specialist says the same. I just had a glorious walk in the sunshine on my way to work listening to some old favourite tunes in my headphones, channeling the positive vibes, projecting a healthy baby in 9 months time. I'm already feeling good! I'm all ears for reading list recommendations.

Seeking I forgot to say, Mr S said the Fragmin has a gentle immune calming effect as well, so maybe if I wasn't taking that he'd be recommending pred?

Haha Luna! Ally McHarriet will now be known by no other name!

I like The Secret, Amy. It's slightly over the top but I found it useful.

Lol Luna, your weekend of exotic men, sugary treats and martinis 👨🏽🍭🍸 sounds like The perfect way to treat yourself!

I had a friend come over today, chose to tell her our news instead of using my cover story that I had swallowed a melon!
After much talking she told me to read a book, I'm pretty sure it was called the secret. Is it a positive thinking book? If so, it was the same one you're talking about.
She also told me her news. After 10 years of unsuccessfully trying to find a great guy to have kids with, she's going solo. So happy for her! She's looking for a great clinic to sort her insemination and donor sperm. Sent email to Mr S asking whether he has people he works with he can recommend. So excited for her!
On the off chance, anyone have any recommendations? Worth asking my baby making guru pals 😊
Xx

Amy, I'm glad you're feeling better about things! I'm looking forward to hearing about your first scan already 😊