Immune/NK issues - aka Pred Thread no.20!

[harrietm87]

Hi all, thought I'd get the ball rolling on the new thread.

Welcome all with immune/natural killer cell issues.

It's been a while since a new thread so thought it might be helpful if we all added our stats:

I'm harriet, age 30, TTC#1.
3 mcs (2 at 5 weeks, 1 mmc at 9 weeks).
Hypothyroid and high NK cells.
Cycle 2 on pred!

Still trying to work out visas and dates, Starshine! Will update you when there's progress and whether or not it falls around O day! Have to say I got side pains followed by creamy cm and generally more cm this week, plus terrible cramps for about half an hour today. Did make me wonder if last O window actually failed and my body is having a second attempt! Did a couple of OPKs which were negative, but didn't do it religiously.

So all of you worried about age and fertility should check out the latest BBC story on maternity trends. It leads on rising number of babies born to foreign women (yawn) then mentions rising fertility among the over 40s. Then a lovely quote from a fertility expert saying "its's a reminder that fertility does not stop at 40 and women who have completed their families should use contraception until menopause." So THERE.

That's the same for me I think luna - count is at the very top of normal, but they are extra aggressive. I also have off the scale thyroid antibodies. When I saw my NHS consultant she said she wouldn't even bother doing any tests - just keep trying - and that was after 3 mcs with 2 in consecutive months. They also lost the sample for the cytogenetic testing for my last one, so I'll never know whether it was chromosomal or not (though highly doubt it), so yes, very grateful for Mr S despite the cost!

starshine sorry about AF but onwards and upwards - testing will be really useful to at least put your mind at rest. Hope you're feeling ok about it. Maybe he will recommend superovulation (what I've been doing).

The trigger shot doesn't increase fertilisation chances, other than it should help you time when to have sex more accurately. It just triggers ovulation, which should happen 36 hours after the injection.

Thanks starshine and poppy for timing reassurance. Im also kicking myself because we hadn't had sex for about a week before tues (we were on holiday with friends and no privacy!) so the first time will have been really old sperm, and then there was less than 24 hours before the second one so maybe it won't have had time to regenerate! I can always find something to worry about.

DH is a spring chicken of 29 so hoping even his old sperm is healthy!
Round 2 of pred starts tomorrow.

poppy that sounds encouraging re Bbc! My dad was born when my grandma was 45 and she had multiple miscarriages - she had 3 children with a 10 years between them (my dad was youngest obv) and loads of mcs in between. Maybe she had NK cells too!

Old sperm! Dear god - I had no idea I'm supposed to worry about that too!

Ha ha luna please don't worry about it! I am probably overthinking things. But apparently it's best for the little swimmers if the guy ejaculates every few days. I did know this but wasn't expecting to be told I was ovulating a week early, and it's also unusual for us to go that long under normal circumstances! (Last time I'm going camping in a 4 man tent...)

😂Harriet- that made me laugh! I am sure your friends are very glad you decided not to DTD whilst camping if sharing a tent! You can't change what's happened re ovulation- so keep thinking positively-easier said Han done! When does DH go away? That's interesting about the super ovulation- I am not sure if he will offer it, but I guess if I am having the scan anyway he might? How much extra was it?

Thanks for the tip about the BBC story poppy - will have a look at that. Sounds very positive though. what day are you in your cycle poppy?

Luna- I guess the only reason for being a bit more precise with when you ovulate now, is that you'll then know when to start taking the steroids? It does make you more obsessed about it all though. I have been temping on and off for a while as I was doing it for my acupuncture - this helped to lengthen my cycle a bit - and really could be a coincidence, but was 2 days longer in my luteal phase this month and went back to acupuncture. Either way, it helps me relax so I am going to keep going again at the moment.

Had my first glass of wine in a month tonight In commiseration of AF arriving - feeling tipsy just with one glass!

I see.... I will inform husband he needs to ensure new sexy sperm is available on demand

And maybe I should look into charting... the less time on steroids the better

DH has gone! So sad. He's only gone two weeks but I will so miss him!

star I paid I think £375 for the scan but that's because it was my first one. If you do superovulation you will have already had a scan so it will be £250 I think (to check your follicles after you've taken the letrozole) and then it's just the cost of the letrozole and trigger shot. Letrozole was under a tenner and trigger was £40 which surprised me! I'm sure you could have it if you asked - it's meant to give your ovulation a boost which sounds like you may need? And he prescribed it for me when I didn't need it for that and just wanted to change the timing.

Mine's gone too Harriet, for a week! So I just text him his 'homework'

Well done luna - im sure he won't mind too much!

poppy I had delayed ovulation last month - had all the typical o signs, cramps and EWCM in my predicted FW, then had a hell of a stressful week and got a uti, then a few days later had extreme cramps and a positive opk, so think ovulation was halted and then restarted 6 days later. Definitely keep testing with opks.

Hope everyone else is well!

Thanks Harriet for the info!

Sorry to hear lots of your men are away ladies! Mine is out after work tonight so will be home, but snoring loudly 😂

Happy Friday everyone! Hope you all have good weekends.

Im spending mine with my (lovely) pregnant friend and goddaughter which will be great but will also make me very sad! 2 other friends have had babies in the last 2 weeks, one of which is a second goddaughter for me. Again really lovely but really hard. Sigh.

Chin up Harriet - it'll be you soon!

I often find the hardest moments are the ones I didn't expect; like the day I was miscarrying my 2nd at work was also the day a colleague 'came out' as 12-weeks pregnant... she was so happy and sweet and innocent! I felt like clobbering her and congratulating her at the same time

Hi ladies!
So glad I've found you, can I join?
I've been kicking about MN for 18 months. Have a DS who is 5 in September. Started TTC #2 back in December 2015. x2 MCs (both early but 2nd 'missed') and 19 months later - still no joy. Signed up with Dr S last month and got results yesterday indicating slightly higher levels of 'activated' NK cells than normal range. Have been put on complex plan without injections. Feeling very optimistic and grateful to have a plan of attack. Only CD20 so another 3 weeks until I kick off with the steroids. Was told not to 'try' this month which I found difficult!
Have many on this thread had success with Dr S, or mostly still trying? x

Hiya Tee! Welcome! Sorry for your losses:(

I too haven't started yet (complex without injections for me too)... hoping it'll all be worth it - starting mid-August as hubby away at mo!

Oh wow, cycle twin in every way! I'm expecting ovulation around 11th August. Can't believe I've stumbled across a group totally in the same boat. FX for lovely late Spring/early Summer babies! x

Thanks too for helping me find.. Especially as I'm thinking of joining on the journey.. Just don't know if can do all again with Mr S as live up north and got the intralipids via healthcare at home before .. I could get pred up here but as was on complex plan worried wouldn't be enough.

Before I give my stats just want to say a massive congrats to Sunny, Seeking and P .. So lovely to hear your news and can't quite get over how much time must have passed!! Also big hi to everyone else - wishing you all the luck in the world.
Me - 41!! DH - 38
TTC since 2011/12.
3 miscarriages between Aug 2013 and July this year. 11 weeks (MMC, heart beat seen at 7 weeks, D&C), 6 weeks (natural MC), 8 weeks (MMC, heat beat seen at 7).
DS born 2015 then another MMC this Feb- only took pred but tests showed nothing would have helped as wasn't autoimmune, just wasn't meant to be. Can't decide if I feel better about that or worse... As maybe it's an age thing :(

When I saw Mr S I was told I have a high TNF Alpha, a high natural killer cell count and very high activity as well as cytotoxicity assay. I also have high thyroid antibodies and a high TSH but that's now dropped to correct levels as taking 50mg of thyroxine... Actually 75mg since having my DS as it got worse.
I was on the complex treatment programme which is asprin, vits, pred, cyclogest and intralipids from BFP- but had to take Humira injections first. I had an allergy to Humira and side effects to hydroxychloroquine..so stopped both.

I conceived my DS after superovulation but wonder if should try accu. As I said before though I just wonder if I should give up.. Quite sure I've had more than enough heartache for one lifetime and worried I'm too old and shattered. But just can't stop thinking about another baby... What to do.

Thanks all for the comments at the end of the last thread :) xx

Hi Rosa, I'm sorry you've had such a rotten time... and that medically it was such a hassle :( I don't even want to think about loosing one because of bad luck, on top of the other stuff - so I get what you mean

But in amongst the heartache you have had success with Dr S - that's wonderful!

I don't know when the 'give up' point is. I suppose you know when you reach it; it'll be as strong as the need we currently have to keep trying... so I think you've not thrown in the towel yet! Especially as you've had success with the Shahata protocol

Yes Tee - summer babies for us - I'm already planning how much of a humble, sensitive and discrete pregnant person I will be...

Thanks luna! I certainly hope so.

And welcome tee. Sorry for your losses. My diagnosis and treatment plan is the same as yours, and I'm in the tww of my second cycle. The only side effect I've had from pred is feeling REALLY hungry, so I've put on a bit of weight, but hasn't been so bad so far.

rosa it's so hard isn't it. I think if I were you I probably would try again. You don't want any regrets and whilst 41 is definitely not too old, it probably won't make things any easier if you wait? Maybe you could set a deadline and stop if it hasn't happened again. I know it's easier said than done though and I don't know how I'd feel about it if I already had a child. Because I don't I feel like I'd put myself through pretty much anything, but I know that's not a good attitude.

How many cycles did you try superovulation for before conceiving your DS? I'm going to do one more after this one to make sure we can try before Dh's next work trip and then stop as I do ovulate fine by myself and would like to cut down the interventions if I can.

Thanks Luna, you're right - and my DS is so enough .. I remember before him wondering why others would try again after all this. It's more for him, but also that endless curiosity or what another amazing unique baby would be like .. More to love and all that! But if we don't and/or it doesn't happen I'm feeling so lucky to have my DS. Just wish for all our sakes we knew more about all this recurrent miscarriage nightmare so we could suffer less, and ideally not at all.

Hi Harriet.. Yes, I've thought about a deadline. I think I will just know.. I strongly expect if I did conceive and have another miscarriage - especially one needing D&C again .. Would be my 4th of that type, then I would just need to stop for my own physical and mental health. It just takes it toll and it's not fair on me, DH or DS. What will be will be! But to answer your question on superovulation, it was only the second round .. Louise who used to support Mr S thinks I may have conceived before the trigger too so may not have needed it .. But it had been 9 months of lots of drugs and no luck so I am glad we tried it. We were going to give up the month after. Funny how things usually work out. Looking forward to hearing more success stories this Summer :) xx

Hi all,

Welcome Tee 😊 Sorry you've been through all that nastiness, we all understand in here x
Mr S has so many success stories, you're in good hands.

Glad you found us again Rosa :) Depending on how far you want to take it, could you use ivf to select a genetically stable embryo? I've heard of that being an option but not confirmed it- maybe worth asking about... sorry if it's a flop but just a thought.
Has anyone else in here heard of that?
And congrats on your DS ❤️

Harriet, how are you holding up? Will you be testing in around a week from now? Everything crossed for you 🤞🏻

Luna, the waiting to try is a ball ache! You can literally hear the clock ticking, it will be so worth it when you succeed though 🌈

Poppy, Star and everyone else, hope you are all doing ok? ⭐️

I'm still completely bonkers- meds, hormones, extra hormones, stress and feeling of impending doom are my life at the mo. NHS scan on Monday. Mr S told me he's a busy man and won't be able to comment if I have any concerns over an NHS scan so doesn't fully recommend it, but I'm pretty sure I'm going to take advantage of a free one anyway. My negative-Nancy head thinks, I want to know sooner rather than later if history is going to repeat itself.

Song of the moment for me- Madge, 'time goes by... so slowly' wish I could fast forward a good few months! I'm sure most of you feel the same 😵

Xxx

Wow so this is the Big scan that will change everything hey JustLa? 8 weeks now?

So is NHS running their own course of early regular scanning too; in addition to Mr S?

Hi all,

Really hope the scan goes ok justla! You're doing so well!

Welcome tee. Completely understand what you mean about 'when to stop'. It's so hard- I am constantly concerned about whether I am spending all this time trying to for something that just isn't meant to be and I don't want to look back in years to come and think about my DS youngest years, shaded with different miscarriages- already there are so many lovely photos of us as a family, and when I look at them I have a whisper in my head- yes was so many weeks pregnant then or just miscarried, again. It really is tough. Was out last night with two friends, one spent a long time talking about her youngest and how tired she is and how she is far too old- she won't be having any more she told me as she is too old- she knows what we have been through and what we are still going through and that we are the same age😠

I have just re-started acupuncture again rosa- apart from anything else, it really is relaxing and almost like counselling too. My therapist thinks my temp is a little low and wants me to eat more rich protein foods- esp recommended liver- I am not a meat person!!! Promptly went off to Nando's for lunch for their chicken livers and now I feel physically sick! Have never paid for a meal- having ordered something I hate! Quite funny when you think about it.

Harriet- how are you coping in this tww? Hope the superovulation works.

Any updates on the ovulation poppy?

So I am booke din for my scan next thurs with mr s to look at ovulation and had my day 3 bloods yesterday- so willsee what they tell us! Hopefully good news!!

Now off to pick a kitchen! Have a good rest of the Saturday ladies

Hi starshine all sounds good with tests and scan lined up - let us know how you get on. And good luck with new kitchen too!

Yes justla only 3dpo today, too early even to symptom spot! Will test next Sunday at 11dpo I think. Don't have my hopes up for this cycle at all for some reason but will have to just wait and see (as always). I would totally got for the NHS scan - fx for you.

Hi Luna, I had a 7 week scan which looked good, but am so so aware than anything could happen at this stage. Chromosomal stuff or auto immunish stuff (hopefully we have that under control though) or anything else. I'm not feeling lucky although, I did find a 4 leaf clover at 5 weeks so maybe 🍀

Thanks Star :) I hope I don't upset anyone by sharing my pregnancy worries in here, I don't want to seem ungrateful... just super worried about things that could go wrong at the mo.

Harriet, I totally didn't have my hopes up and got lucky! There's always a good chance it will be your month. When you've experienced only bad results, it's difficult to imagine good stuff can happen, so I've had to say sayonara to 'instinct' as it can be too jaded by the past.

xxx

I find the fact you're pregnant very comforting :)) and also totally normal that you're freaking!