40+ ttc: bring on the bfp's!

[ababsurdum]

Continuation of the long-running 40+ ttc thread.

Link to the previous thread.

I know what you mean Mimosa - we haven’t considered ivf but I felt so down today I thought anything is worth having a better chance.

Hedgehog - what data did you get from bbt?

Thanks Cleo - I’m undecided too about soy.

@alibaba my bbt is showing that I ovulate the day before my LH shows up on an opk so I have been babydancing too late according to Fertility Friend. I had been using Flo which is right for AF date but not it turns out for ovulation.

Great result Orchid! How long have you been trying? I’m sure it will happen for you.

Hedge, is Flo an app? When is ov day for you?

I’m thinking of putting all my eggs in one basket, so to speak, and dtd on cd9 only this month, presuming ov happens cd10. Fertility roulette!

That is interesting hedgehog. I've noticed my EWCM is a few days before I get the peak on CB monitor. I do wonder if I've been DTD too late and we only manage a couple of times. Although the progesterone test did seem to line up with CB.
Alibaba it does only take one time doesn't it. I was 38 when conceived before and it was from DTD once day 15 of 28 day cycle.

Hi @alibaba yes Flo is an app and I was entering opk stick results and dates for AF which was suggesting Day 14/15 but my bbt very clearly shows that I am ovulating on day 12.

Now I've found this out it actually fits with when I conceived my daughter which was before the cbfm which I used at that point showed a peak. (I know because we avoided having sex when it was peak). So am really hoping trying from day 9 might make a difference. Normally I can only try 1-2 days a month but this month I can try every day of fertile window.

@jojo how can you tell from the progesterone when ovulation is? I've had my progesterone checked once on day 21 but have nothing to compare it too so would be interested to learn more about this.

From what I have learnt about ewcm some people have it right up to ovulation and some people have it leading up but then it stops.

Wishing everyone luck xx

The previous progesterone test I had was on day 19 because of weekend and it was 50 something. This one was Day 21 and 70 something. So I'm guessing at day 19 it was still yet to peak and maybe this time on day 21 as it was much higher it was at peak? But I'm guessing! You'll never know unless you have them every day in that week.

That's interesting hedgehog, BBT does have it's uses!
I've decided from now I think I will just temp from after AF has gone until maybe a week after ovulation, just to confirm it. I find the 2nd week after ov stressful as I'm studying it for 'signs' which always ends up in disapointment, and week of AF is just pointless as it tells me nothing.
I was also wondering about progesterone levels as my ov temp rise is very minimal. FF spots it, and it's definitely a rise that stays above coverline, but only just! I've seen some charts where the rise is huge and obvious. Would a lower more subtle rise indicate low progesterone?

Cleo - maybe this is the thinking behind the 3 cycle/soy thing;

“Repeated use of clomid, especially when used for 3 cycles in a row, can block the stimulation of estrogen to thicken the endometrium. Clomid contains two isomers. Isomers are compounds that contain the same molecular formula, but different structural formulas. Isomers usually have different actions. When a woman discontinues use of Clomid, one of the isomers leaves the body in a week; the other one remains, acting as an antiestrogenic for up to six weeks. Repeated use of Clomid causes a buildup of this isomer resulting in a thin uterine lining. This action on estrogen levels can also prevent natural ovulation in future cycles, actually inhibiting conception. It is suggested to give the body a break from Clomid for at least 6 weeks to eliminate the remaining isomer from the body.”

Thanks alibaba maybe that is it. I know soy is compared with clomid and does the same sort of thing. It's so hard to know what's good and what isn't. I read all sorts, positive and negative. Although it has been working for me, I worry it will have a negative impact long term. I was wavering over my break from it today but I'm back to thinking it's the right thing to do again now. I'll take it again next cycle.
Would a thin lining cause light periods? If that is the case then it has not had that impact on me yet as my periods are still heavy and last around a week.
Think I might go to docs this month too, see if I can get 21 day progesterone test and any other fertility testing they are willing to do. Although worried about being a timewaster.
I'm so glad I have you ladies to talk to about all this as I don't reveal any of it in real life.

Yes I think a heavy period means a thick lining. I’ve had my lining checked and it was good yet my periods are so short. I have heavy flow for 36 hours then it becomes light for another 2-3 days. I guess the shorter the cycle, the shorter the period?

Don’t worry about being a time waster, GPs donit judge otherwise they couldn’t treat all the smokers for the numerous smoking-related illnesses.

How did they check your lining? Didn't realise that could be done! I'll take any checks I can get as it's probably all falling apart haha

On the soy front I have read that as it's a natural product compared to clomid which is chemical, it would have a lot less side effects and problems. Which makes sense, but if it does the same job but is safer why is it not more widely known about or used or suggested by doctors?...

Evening ladies. Some very interesting chat going on today. Never heard of ovulation prior to LH surge before but I guess anything is possible with Mother Nature. And last month I didn’t in fact get a strong line on an opk until what I thought was a day or two AfTER ovulation. So perhaps it is possible. I think I might temp like you Cleo this month, from end of AF until about 7dpo. That’s a great idea. I find it bloody stressful too.

Re periods, mine are definitely lighter these days. Still 5 days but just not as heavy as when I was younger. I get two days of medium flow (I know it’s about 10ml as I use a mooncup) and 2-3 days of light with the last day being v light. Anyone else got to grips yet (literally) with a mooncup? It’s been a joy to ditch tampons.

Cleo - I’ll hazard a guess at why....
Because the pharmaceutical companies don’t stand to make a profit from soy like they do with their chemicals.....

Interesting Mimosa. I’d like to use a Moon cup. What do you do at work while you’re wearing one?

Is that 10ml for each heavy day or 10ml total?

@littlemimosa The LH surge is still happening pre-ovulation as that is what triggers the ovulation, but as you age it can take longer to show up in your urine. See quote from article below "by the time you are over 40, the egg may have already been released by the time you have enough LH in your urine to turn a kit positive."

maiamidwifery.com/2014/05/opks-flushing-money-hopes-getting-pregnant-drain/

My periods sound lighter than some of these described which is a bit worrying. The fertility consultant asked how long it lasted and I said 4 days but looking at my ap it's really 2 plus spotting.

Cleo - my GP took pity on me and I had a few tests: cd3/cd21 bloods and scan.

Hedge - that sounds similar flow to me.

I read that link before, it's really interesting. I definitely think we need to start DTD early from now on and that would tie in with EWCM being a few days earlier. My cycle seems to be regulating now which is great but it means my peak days are mid week which is when DH works away 😩 that's why I was so hopeful over Christmas as he was here. All we can do is it try for the couple of days before he goes I suppose but it's stressing me out.

Ali it’s 10ml per heavy day (first 2) then it’s much lighter for the next 2-3 days. I still use it on day 3 but tend to switch to liners for day 4/5. Since I’ve been using it and able to measure the blood I estimate my flow is approx 30-40ml per month. As an aside to our discussions on fertility I have to say I LOVE my mooncup. I was getting sick of tampons. They were making me dry and giving me slight thrush for a couple of days around middle/end of period. Ugh. It takes 2-3 months of getting to grips with it but it’s so worth persevering.

I’m lucky at work as each toilet cubicle has a sink in. So it’s easy to empty (into loo) and give a quick rinse in sink in warm water. Period blood is sterile so it doesn’t feel yucky. But you can leave it in for up to 12 hours so some days I don’t even bother emptying it at work, just wait til I get home.

That article makes loads of sense. I ovulate earlier these days. In my 20s/30s it was always day 13/14 but now it’s usually day 8/9/10/11. Definitely need to dtd from end of AF.

Oh JoJo that would stress me out too

@Jojo hoping that the earlier dates mean you might still catch the right time - there are some months i have to miss TTC due to logistics and it is so frustrating! Can you travel to be with DH just overnight or is it too far?

Interesting hearing about all your periods getting lighter, as mine have definitely got heavier. Flooding with clots sometimes, in the first few days. I have never tried a moon cup as I think it would be too much.
Interestingly although my periods are still very heavy, they have been more managable after a soy cycle.

Mimosa - I completely agree about the soy/profit thing, I think you have a very good point there. Although I would be nervous about telling the doc about soy, which is one reason I plan to go for tests during a natural cycle - plus would give more realistic results.
Interesting about the timing of opk & ovulation. I tend to start dtd as soon as anything apears on a cheap opk (just a very faint line) as it usually builds up from there so dtd on alternate days until cheap opk goes blank again, usually about a week.
Jo - just grab him whenever you can, hopefully you'll catch a bit of your fertile time and over a few cycles it may change to weekend

Definitely interesting chat. About ovulation before positive on lol, I'm now questioning my luteal length, if it is actually 12-14 days or longer. Honestly the more you think about these things the more confused you get. I'm finally giving in and calling the Drs tomorrow though I'd prefer not to. My want to have a baby has overridden my irrational fears.

Will you be asking for tests minime? Will be interesting to see if we get offered same tests as I think some will be more understanding than others! I worry as I have already been to my dr about my erratic cycles and non ovulation (before the descovery of soy) so he might just say the problem is perimenopause and not do any more tests. The day 3 test I had before was not on cd3 though, it was cd-unknown as I'd been bleeding for weeks, so not sure how acurate that would have been. And this time I'm going to ask for numbers not just 'normal' or 'borderline' etc.