Strapping on our lady balls and going menkul because we HATE THIS SHIT!! The Berries: a lovely bunch of 30 something Ladybros TTC #1

[happylass]

The small print:

The Berries have strict entrance criteria: TTC #1 for 12 months+, over 30, NO instadiffers, must have a special pimping pot and absolutely no mention of baby dust/dancing. Not that we're fussy!

Current Ladybros:

Minx 35 - TTC 2.5 years. Stage 4 endometriosis, both tubes blocked, 1 buried ovary, IVF #1 started Aug '15 at Mustache Towers, if all goes well results due mid-Sept.

Smidge 39, TTC since Jan '13. Unexplained. Some high NK cell immune treatment. IVF#1 Short protocol Jul'14 BFN; IVF#2 Nov'14 and IVF#3 Feb'15 both Long protocol BFNs; Natural FET Jun'15 - Another BFN. Trying to work out what to do next.

Happylass, 37, TTC since Aug 2012. 2 failed ICSI cycles, 1 failed FET and 1 abandoned cycle due to poor response. Hoping to start antagonist cycle mid September. HATE THIS SHIT!!

Beaky 35, ttc 3 yrs, 2x failed iui 1 long protocol ivf cancelled, 1 short protocol IVF BFN, very low amh etc etc. In 2ww for 2nd sp IVF.

Tigerdog, 35, ttc since Jan 2013. Unexplained. IVF #1 chemical pregnancy. Currently redoing tests in preparation for IVF #2.

barkingtreefrog 36, ttc since Dec 2011. clomid bfp summer 2013 then mc @7 weeks, iui bfp summer 2014 then mc @6 weeks. Factor V leiden thrombophilia diagnosed at the repeat mc clinic. IUI bfn Jan 2015, IVF bfn April/May 2015. FET bfn August 2015, remaining frozen embryo perished. Pursuing private tests and then long protocol ivf in Oct/Nov.

Lumen, 35, ttc since Nov 2011, unexplained, two IVF cycles in 2014, both bfns, waiting for lap&dye and results of numerous bloods, aiming for one last IVF cycle.

Kuma - 40. TTC 2.9 years. Low AMH high FSH - DH antisperm ABs. Failed IVF June 14 and March 15, cancelled cycle June 15. Last try September 15

Lucieloos, 36, TTC 18 months, low AMH & sperm motility. ICSI#1, April 2015, Czech, 2xblasts transferred, BFN. Icsi#2, cancelled before EC. Icsi#3, 2 mature and fertilised, both to blast and frozen. Icsi#4 in October, embryo banking.

Rain, 34, ttc since March 2012. unexplained. Mystery bfp oct 13, MMC Nov 13. IVF#1 Aug 2015

Sesame, 40, ttc with no dp, on this road for 2 years, multiple failed IVFs, 3 ETs, 1 bfp then mc, poor responder with v low AMH, but still looking for the golden egg.

nolly, 33, TTC 3 years, 1 confirmed MC, 2 more suspected. still in limbo

Spare, 34, TTC 3 years, IVF#1 short protocol + ICSI August 14 BFP but pregnancy loss at 20+ weeks, 3 failed FET, IVF #2 short protocol + PICSI August 15

Funkymonk 33. Ttc since October 2012. Mc June 2013, Mmc dec 2013, mc June 2014. Factor v Leiden thrombophilia. Abandoned IVF Jan 2015 due to thin lining. Abandoned FET Aug 2015 due to thin lining. 4 embies on ice. Cycling again November time I think.

Clem, currently on 3rd Clomid Cycle

Pip - quite simply the Best In Show.

rain so sorry to read your news. Don't torture yourself with ifs and buts - at the end of the day it's a numbers game, and even in the most perfect of scenarios there's a 30% chance (or similar). They don't know why it works sometimes and not at other times, but it won't be anything you've done - much more likely to be something unknowable; the action of a single cilia or the division of a single cell. It's shit, but it's not your fault. x

beaky hope you're feeling more reassured by it stopping... weird. Bodies eh? did you get through to the clinic?

Sorry rain. So crappy. I agree with nolly though. It's a numbers game. Doesn't mean your protocol was an issue.

Welcome elise. We definitely welcome the older ladies! Makes me feel less hopeless anyway!

Doctors receptionists are their own breed aren't they. I watched an old episode of QI the other day and MrFry made a comment along those lines. So much so I had to pause it and play it back to MrSmidge!

Sorry to hear your news Rain. That sucks. If you are concerned about the number of follies compared to eggs collected then I'm sure Agate's guide says something about the trigger shot which makes you ovulate. I think they say that two vials of Pregnyl can be better than one as it ensures there's enough hormone to flush out all the eggs. Also I think some brands of trigger are thought to be better at winkling out the stickier eggs. Could be worth looking at. Hope you get a plan you feel happy with soon.

Big cheers for all the PUPO Berries! You are all doing amazingly well just by staying vaguely sane. Beaky incredible results from you with egg numbers this cycle. I have total faith in the CoQ10 and DHEA plan too. I'm convinced it helped my egg quality and quantity. Hope your bleeding has stopped. It's all so flipping worrying.

Kerrie - I am so sorry for all the heartbreak you have been through. We haven't met and I am halfway out the door of this thread for the best possible reasons, but I just wanted to say to you that the Berries have been a fantastic support to me and I do not know how I would have made to get through this shit without them. Everyone else has said it but it is worth repeating that the Berries are not just here for supporting each other through treatment. They are also here to ease the strain that struggling to conceive can put on your relationship, career, finances, friendships, sanity...

It's great that you and your DH had a heart to heart and understand better where the other is coming from and now have a new plan for moving forward. I really agree with what Barking said about repeated miscarriages pointing to an underlying problem which needs to be investigated to try to avoid another heartbreak scenario. It is very rare to have more than three miscarriages. Very rare. I don't know if donor sperm would fix that problem or not - it's worth at least asking your specialist the question.

Kuma good to see you and delighted that you are going for another cycle. Everything crossed for you.

Hello to Perfect (that surely has got to be your nickname?) - sorry you are here but you have found the best possible place to be for now. By the way, there have been Berry BFPs over 40. Hoping to see some more very soon. (Kuma I'm looking at you).

All fine with me. We were on holiday camping the the Lake District last week and despite wet weather forecasts it was fairly dry an dee even had some sunny days. The only time it tipped down was when some Duke of Edinburgh hikers arrived and were trying to put up their tents in the driving rain. We were watching snug in our tent with cups of tea. (cruel)

okay, so I think I've had enough of this clomid...its now 3 months in a row, that one of the side effects has been to make me sore/stingy down there sorry for the tmi. thats the last thing I need. hubby doesn't seem to like me wincing in pain, when dtd...strange that

add onto that, I think I'm getting a coldsore out of the blue. makes me feel so attractive, and helps when trying to get into the mood . not to mention dh won't come anywhere near my face, whilst I have this

its not going to stop me using them, but just really frustrating...sorry, just needed a moan.

clem forgive me for asking but are you "unexplained"?

rain good idea to take a duvet day, it's impossible to work when you're going through something like this. What nolly said about success rates and not really knowing why it doesn't work. IVF is just more likely to fail. And that's just shitty, given how many of us are turning to it as our last resort. I don't know whether I can suggest anything, can you remind us what were the number and sizes of follies on trigger day, how many eggs and how many fertilized?

beaky glad the bleeding is easing off. I think it's definitely the right kind of time for implantation and it's a bit too early for af. I know that this could go either way, but I'm so hoping it works for you this time. You have every chance and you can hang on for just a few more days.

minx how was the opera? What did you see and was it a beginners one?

spare how are you coping, did you manage to get any more sleep last night?

smidge, I love old technology too! Really sorry about the horrid secretary

lucie, tiger, clem thanks

clem so sorry you are feeling rubbish right now. Which supplements did you order btw?

perfect, hi there, welcome on board. I'm also 40 and navigating my way through all this shit. Do you know why your IVF cycles failed?

I'm just about finished reading it starts with the egg. Did any of you berries try melatonin supplements?

nolly yes, unexplained...at the nhs fc, dh and I had the usual tests, and other than one of my day 21 blood tests making them suggest that I may not have ovulated properly/expected time, they said all our other figures were okay (not brilliant, but okay).

seasame - still not ordered them (this coursework is kicking my ass this week), and just not got my arse in gear to order them)...

minx I'm a midlands berry, not sure if anyone else is.

ref. whats next for me...well, if clomid hasn't resulted in bfp by end of October, then I am going back to doctors to be referred back to the nhs fc, to get in the list for my 1 ivf try with them.

given that it takes a good six months from referral to hostpital, I want to get this underway sooner, rather than later (i.e. not waiting till all my clomid is done before I kick this off.

have been wondering lately though, whether it would make sense to try and do a private cycle, before the nhs one (I'm rushing a bit I know, but turning 39 in november, so time is running out)

so what do you guys advise (lets ignore the money side of it for now)...should I just be patient and wait for the nhs free ivf cycle, which won't likely be until March 2016ish (I only get 1), or do I try and hurry things along, and go private first?

minx not sure, and don't know how to find out...worry, if I ask the question, whether it would draw attention to it.

does anyone know how to find out?

clem, I think if you're about to turn 39 it makes sense not to hang about for IVF. If you're willing to go down that route, you'll get the best chance over 3 cycles and success rates drop pretty quickly over 40. A 6 months wait for an NHS try is actually not bad. But if you can go private, without losing your entitlement, it makes sense to consider. If you're going private on a budget, you might also consider whether you would travel abroad for treatment. lucie is the berry expert on this. Ovarian reserve testing (AMH plus antral follicles count) might also help you make a more informed decision about how much time you have. Of course, none of this advice is probably relevant as you're bound to get diffed on clomid round 3.

minx, glad you're doing ok and had a fun night at the opera

Thank you for the warm welcome! I'm a south Welsh. Ha, I don't feel very perfect! But I really don't mind which you choose to call me. It's one of my favourite songs and I wanted to have something positive sounding to see if it rubs off on my general attitude to this shit!

So, us. Well, we've no clear explanations/theories as to why we can't conceive on our own (it's nice and frustrating to be repeatedly told this should be possible), or why the first two ivfs failed, other than suspected implantation issues. We have the follow up appt for the last failed cycle on Monday (bfn in August) so I'll update on their thoughts as to why that round failed after that. Tbh I suspect duff eggs as well now. My amh over a year ago was 7.6 so not exactly great...

For the last ivf I took aspirin, folic acid, multi vitamins, vitamin d and omegas in the lead up, and had testogel to apply for three weeks before ec. I had short protocol (have had the same for all three rounds) starting with suprecur, then different doses of bravelle (not bracelets, thank you phone) and menopur to stim. I had 15 decent sized follices in the end, but they collected 6 eggs. All fertilised (albeit one a day late) and after telling me the day after that they would take them to blast, and potentially transfer 3, I had 2 slow growers transferred at day 3. It felt like quite a quick deterioration, with cock all to freeze. After et, I had cylogest, lubion injections, prednisolone and progynova until I started spotting and tested bfn two days before otd. As with the two cycles before, I felt like I knew halfway through it hadn't worked (question - how do you tell instinct from natural pessimism?!). Night sweats, boobs no longer sore seem to be a bad sign for me.

As I am clearly taking the opportunity to have a good witter on, I should also say I am lucky to have a bloody lovely DH, who is in equal measures brilliantly supportive and utterly clueless about this whole debacle.

clem it's a bloody lottery. Do you know who your CCG are? If so they may have their IVF policy on their website. From a quick glance at Birmingham South (just as an example) who offer 1 cycle, they won't fund treatment if you've had ANY private treatment. That said, when you see a private clinic you can usually say they may not share details of your treatment with your GP, so the nhs wouldn't find out. But then you would need copies of all your nhs test results or risk having to pay for them to all be done again privately. Other berries are far more knowledgeable on this than me however!
The Fertility Fairness website is a good starting place to find out what your local ccg rules are anyway.

Xpost, welcome perf - you've found the best thread by far for infertility support. These ladies are legends! I hope your appointment on Monday is useful. Have you been long or short protocol in your previous cycles?

sesame so on the trigger day I had 13 follies; 2 x 24mm, 21, 20, 19, 18, 16, 2 x 15, 14, 13 and 2 x 11mm. My lining was 12.3mm. From that count, they only managed to retrieve 7 eggs. At the scan prior to my final one, I had fewer follies visible, so the smaller ones were definitely lagging.
From 7 eggs only 4 fertilised normally. I have no idea if the other 3 fertilised abnormally or failed to fertilise at all, hopefully will get that info at our follow up. After that on day 2 it was apparent that only 1 was doing as it should, 1 was a bit slow and 2 looked dodgy. At ET they confirmed two would go back, 1 x 10 cell, 1 x 6 cell. Both had fragmentation, 6 cell much worse (I've attached a pic!) and were considered 'average'.
From my reading it seems like a poor stimulation phase can result in duff egg quality and fragmentation, but so can shit eggs and also sperm dna fragmentation. I'm going to question all of this with the clinic obviously, but if anyone has any bright ideas of things to look into or ask them about I'm all ears!

Also thanks everyone for your sympathies, you're the best. After a day of wallowing in shit TV, scary movies and junk food I'm feeling ok at the moment! Have updated those friends/family in the know and everyone's been pretty awesome, so just want to focus on moving on to the next phase now (and planning an amazing fuck-off non baby friendly holiday!)

Forgot the pic

Evening you chatty lot! Welcome perfect. Sorry you find yourself here but you really are in the right place. I'm South Wales too as is Lucie. Sounds like you're in a similar situation to me. I've done 2 fresh private cycles and 1 FET. I also started and abandoned an NHS cycle last week and I'm hopefully starting again next week. How did you find the NHS? I also have a lowish AMH - 6.2 18 months ago and I've just had it retested so dread
To think what it is now!
Rain hope you're doing ok my lovely. As others have wisely said don't beat yourself up. The chances of it working first time really are quite low. I've had 5 perfect blasts put back all together and though I'm convinced that something must be wrong the consultant said no just keep on going - it's simply a numbers game
Clem I'm allowed 1 private cycle without it affecting my NHS entitlement. I've actually had 2 but I've only told them about the 1 and they don't seem to have found out. My private FC don't inform the NHS so there isn't a way of them knowing really. It won't hurt to ask. Maybe send them an email if you can, just say you are wanting information. I would also advise you to go for the private cycle ASAP. Whilst 6 months isn't that long I think it just makes sense not to hang around if you can possibly afford it.
Beaky hope the spotting has stopped. Did you manage to speak to the FC?
Hope everyone else is ok and that our PUPO Berries are hanging in there. Soo glad it's the weekend. Work is mental - feels like I've been back a year not 2 weeks! Have a good one all

hallo perfect welcome here, kerrie too.

clem I've got a feeling that clomid actually lowers conception rates in those with unexplained infertility, but DOES work well for people with identified ovulation issues. I was on it for 6 goes, the only advantage was that it shortened my cycle. didn't work obviously, and I only found out about the lack of use for people such as ourselves after I'd finished (naturlich). I'd push to move straight on if I were you.

Hello ladybros!
I've not got long so sorry for not saying hello to everyone. Again iPad is barely working so resorting to phone. Does anybody else find typing is really slow on iPad!

Anyway, sesame, you asked about natural cycle. The first one was completely unstimulated. I was given indometacin to stop ovulation then a trigger before EC. They had lots of things for me to take after but egg fertilised incorrectly so never got that far. Next cycle will be modified natural which is low stimms from day 5 then i assume a trigger.

Welcome perfect. May your stay be short. I am 40, not long off 41 now, so it's nice to have more oldies around. I think the thread says 30s in the title, I when I joined!!!

Clem, I did a private cycle before my NHS cycle, didn't tell them about it. I had that in June last year and NHS didn't happen till March this year so I'm glad I did. Even though neither worked.

Must dash now, plane to catch.

Happy weekend everyone.

rain my lovely Berry, I hope you're doing as well as can be expected. You sound very level headed about it all. I'm sending all the love your way as this really is the shittiest time. I think I need to read Agates guide too. My cycle was much like yours - loads of follies, only 7 mature eggs and in the end only two BC grade blasts. I've not had a follow up yet - they changed the time of mine AGAIN so I missed it.

Welcome elise, sounds like you've been through the shit like the rest of us. I hope your stay is short because the next cycle is the one. defintely not too old - two of our recent bfps have been to ladies who are 40 and 41.

beaky it's such a headspin. Will you test early? How many days pt are you? Hope you're doing ok. Am thinking of you loads and holding onto a really good feeling about this also, you inspired me to do couch25k and I am running again for the first time in ages.

Hey clem, fellow midlander here! Well, sort of as, at the moment I'm in London most of the time (and am from the saaff) but I had my first cycle in the Midlands. Which CCG are you in? I would agree with nolly - push to move on as clomid is not recommended for unexplained.

nolly any progress?

minx beginners opera sounds great! You sound like you're holding it together really well! When's otd?

spare how are you doing? Managing to get some sleep and keep the crazy dreams away? When are you testing?

Glad to hear you're doing ok back at work happy. Do you know when you'll be starting again?

Not tried melatonin sesame but it seems worth a try. I'm thinking about how I can improve my egg/blast quality. After next weekend I'm going on a full health kick - no booze, healthy eating, increased protein etc. I did it for ages but for the last 4 months I've just not been able to focus.

Thank crunchie it's friday! Tired and so ready for home. Was meant to be having a london weekend but plan was abandoned at the last minute so on my way back after all!

Tiger that's great that you're back into the running! Well done lovely thanks for the good thoughts, I've just got a brown tinge going on at the mo so trying to stay calm. Although going to the loo is a bit of a stresser! It's 8dp3dt today. Did you get some coq10 to take? It's so difficult to keep on a healthy eating/lifestyle track when we have all of this shit going on eh.

Sesame I've not tried melatonin either but I don't think it's as expensive as dhea. Do you think you might try it? What did you make of it starts with the egg? Hope you're doing ok at the moment and enjoying some nice wine tonight. Thanks for the cheering, it really helps. If I didn't have the berries I don't know what state of be in.

Clem yes what Sesame says. Get your ovarian reserve tested as at least that helps you decide whether to press on quickly or not. I'm surprised they gave you clomid, the success rates are low and as others have said it's not recommend for unexplained. Ask to move on if this one isn't the one. Fx it is though.

Spare how are you doing? Have you managed to get any more sleep? Any other symptoms?

Minx the opera sounds great! My dh won't go to the theatre much but I love it! Especially the ballet. Hope all is well with you, got my pom-poms going for you as well!

Hi Kuma enjoy your trip!

Happy the school is making you suffer for having 6 weeks off! How shit that it's so full on though. Do you start again next cycle? Are you still taking dhea?

Hi Nolly any craic with you? No news on your referral yet?

Rain it's such a mindfuck. I hope you get to book your lovely holiday soon too.

Perfect yes re the dh comment, mine is like that also! I've heard aspirin in the run up to ec can affect egg quality, but can't remember where that's from. From this thread alone we all know how much aspirin splits consultants opinions. Good luck for the follow up.

Smidge did you hear back from AliG?

Lovely to see you Wild I hope everything is good with you!

Waves to everyone else, sorry if I've missed anyone, I can't get scrolled back very far. I hope the new app is decent when it arrives!

I'm out, ladybros
The witch has made her presence very obviously today. I convinced myself this morning it was just implantation bleeding but has got heavier and redder this afternoon.
I'm not even sure how it is possible with this much progesterone, and I'm only CD23, but it's pretty unmistakable.
It hasn't really sunk in yet. I had convinced myself this could be our time and I feel like my body hasn't even tried. CD23 ffs! How can my womble throw in the towel already?

Apologies for the rambling. I'm going to tell DH. Can't even hit the wine because we are going out for dinner at 8, and I'm driving.

Hello Ladybros - just checking in.

spare Really? Oh no! I'm so so sorry! That is so unfair! I'm so gutted for you!