Strapping on our lady balls and going menkul because we HATE THIS SHIT!! The Berries: a lovely bunch of 30 something Ladybros TTC #1

[happylass]

The small print:

The Berries have strict entrance criteria: TTC #1 for 12 months+, over 30, NO instadiffers, must have a special pimping pot and absolutely no mention of baby dust/dancing. Not that we're fussy!

Current Ladybros:

Minx 35 - TTC 2.5 years. Stage 4 endometriosis, both tubes blocked, 1 buried ovary, IVF #1 started Aug '15 at Mustache Towers, if all goes well results due mid-Sept.

Smidge 39, TTC since Jan '13. Unexplained. Some high NK cell immune treatment. IVF#1 Short protocol Jul'14 BFN; IVF#2 Nov'14 and IVF#3 Feb'15 both Long protocol BFNs; Natural FET Jun'15 - Another BFN. Trying to work out what to do next.

Happylass, 37, TTC since Aug 2012. 2 failed ICSI cycles, 1 failed FET and 1 abandoned cycle due to poor response. Hoping to start antagonist cycle mid September. HATE THIS SHIT!!

Beaky 35, ttc 3 yrs, 2x failed iui 1 long protocol ivf cancelled, 1 short protocol IVF BFN, very low amh etc etc. In 2ww for 2nd sp IVF.

Tigerdog, 35, ttc since Jan 2013. Unexplained. IVF #1 chemical pregnancy. Currently redoing tests in preparation for IVF #2.

barkingtreefrog 36, ttc since Dec 2011. clomid bfp summer 2013 then mc @7 weeks, iui bfp summer 2014 then mc @6 weeks. Factor V leiden thrombophilia diagnosed at the repeat mc clinic. IUI bfn Jan 2015, IVF bfn April/May 2015. FET bfn August 2015, remaining frozen embryo perished. Pursuing private tests and then long protocol ivf in Oct/Nov.

Lumen, 35, ttc since Nov 2011, unexplained, two IVF cycles in 2014, both bfns, waiting for lap&dye and results of numerous bloods, aiming for one last IVF cycle.

Kuma - 40. TTC 2.9 years. Low AMH high FSH - DH antisperm ABs. Failed IVF June 14 and March 15, cancelled cycle June 15. Last try September 15

Lucieloos, 36, TTC 18 months, low AMH & sperm motility. ICSI#1, April 2015, Czech, 2xblasts transferred, BFN. Icsi#2, cancelled before EC. Icsi#3, 2 mature and fertilised, both to blast and frozen. Icsi#4 in October, embryo banking.

Rain, 34, ttc since March 2012. unexplained. Mystery bfp oct 13, MMC Nov 13. IVF#1 Aug 2015

Sesame, 40, ttc with no dp, on this road for 2 years, multiple failed IVFs, 3 ETs, 1 bfp then mc, poor responder with v low AMH, but still looking for the golden egg.

nolly, 33, TTC 3 years, 1 confirmed MC, 2 more suspected. still in limbo

Spare, 34, TTC 3 years, IVF#1 short protocol + ICSI August 14 BFP but pregnancy loss at 20+ weeks, 3 failed FET, IVF #2 short protocol + PICSI August 15

Funkymonk 33. Ttc since October 2012. Mc June 2013, Mmc dec 2013, mc June 2014. Factor v Leiden thrombophilia. Abandoned IVF Jan 2015 due to thin lining. Abandoned FET Aug 2015 due to thin lining. 4 embies on ice. Cycling again November time I think.

Clem, currently on 3rd Clomid Cycle

Pip - quite simply the Best In Show.

barking I think you need some tigers milk - warm milk with cinnamon and nutmeg, and maybe a pinch of sugar if you need it sweetening. It will probably do naff all to help but it works quite well for me. I was also reading sleeping tips today (I'm an early hours insomniac sometimes too) and apparently if you go to bed after midnight it is harder to stay asleep, so get some early nights and especially catch those important 90 mins kip before midnight. I also try to leave my phone in another room to resist the screen! I hope you get some reassurance tomorrow. I'm thinking of you lots and willing it to be your time.

beaky I just think this shit is so hard and sometimes it is too much to bear. It's normal to find pg announcements hard, I don't think you're being dysfunctional. No wang, just a big squeeze from me. I think it's hard to get out of a negative mindset - I think counseling would help. I cried on the tube today after watching a young boy with his mum. Their closeness, and sweet conversation, the way he leaned in to whisper to his mum, the unconscious touching and affectionate gestures. I suddenly though 'what if I never have that' and the pit of my stomach dropped and I had to pretend to be engrossed in my book.

Other than that, I'm having a shit week. Ripped tyre which has meant no car for two days, a letter that claims I've underpaid tax by a grand, fanjo rummaging and finding out my cycle is likely to be delayed by a further couple of months. Poor t-dog is terrified of the fireworks so she has been driving mr t mad by barking in the night because she is too afraid to go for a bed time wee! beaky I'm definitely joining you in the wigwam!! Poor beaky-pup, hope she isn't too frightened. I'm home now so can snuggle my fur baby! Have hated being away this week knowing she is frightened.

sesame to you for your strength and getting on with stuff. If it were me I'd want to speak to Zita West (as they do the holistic thing) and create, crgh and lister as they are the big guns. Also if there are any from Europe, that might be interesting eg Serum. Couldn't get the full list on my phone so don't know if they are there though!

spare ta for the squeeze. I'm quietly hoping for you.

smidge you're right, I won't book the honeymoon. Mentioned all this to Mr T who hadn't even considered that we wouldn't be going off on some exotic honeymoon despite knowing about impending ivf and was a bit stroppy when I pointed it out. I really have to spell everything out. Hope the sniffing is going ok - I think I would prefer injecting to sniffing!

happy everything crossed for your transfer - come on embies! I feel a bit calmer about everything today. I think the wedding will be a good project. I'm enjoying organising it so far.

clem good to see you back. Hope the tests go ok. 3d sis is a scan where they squirt saline in to take 3d uterus pics. All with a full bladder. It was bloody uncomfortable, but not painful really. I learnt the very simple bladder trick - basically time how long it takes to need a wee after drinking a pint of water on a on empty bladder. For me it's 45 mins, so I don't drink too much beforehand and get desperate!

Just popping on quickly to say OMG did anyone see Jodie Marsh's (please don't judge me!) Making Babies. Social Surrogates? . And the professional sperm donor?? JM said "I'm sure couples who've experienced infertility will understand why people are driven to this". Erm, no. I can't imagine anything making me so desperate as to get DH to take me around to some dodgy flat to have sex with an apparently super fertile Dutchman whilst my husband sat in the lounge or even worse watched . Is it just me?!?

tiger I got that same tax letter today!!! And due to some reason they can't change my tax code and take it back in bits, they want a cheque for the full amount by the 27th?! I am going to take the letter in to the accountant at work today, she said she'd sorted out my tax codes last year (I was worried this was going to happen given I'd been doing two part time jobs, and she said it was sorted!)

I can't imagine going to bed after midnight!! Not even on a weekend! I love my sleep, I'm generally in bed by ten unless there's a really good reason I'm not having any problems getting to sleep as I'm totally exhausted, just waking up wide awake in the early hours and then not getting back to sleep at all. Like right now. DH went out to watch fireworks at the pub, I went to bed at 8.30. If he hadn't been out earlier in the evening and then come back at 8.45, shouting my name to see where I was, I might have been asleep by 9! I was definitely gone within minutes of him leaving again for the pub. I try not to pick my screen up, but when I've lain awake for a while and my eyes have pinged open and I don't feel like anything is going to allow me to drop off, I get the screen to relieve the boredom! If DH wasn't asleep next to me I'd get up and do something (trying to have a major declutter at the moment and I'm itching to empty the boxes under the bed, have no energy to do anything at all after work, but I don't think DH would appreciate me turning the light on right now and dragging boxes around the wooden floor! The advice is always to get up and do something when you can't sleep, but you need to balance that with not waking up everyone else in the house (including the dog, who would then wake dh!)

Happy what the fuck?!?!? No, I can't ever imagine that. I could possibly imagine accepting a sperm donation to insert in a separate room, privately, if that was our issue and it avoided paying thousands to a clinic, but still not from a stranger!! What the hell was the reason for needing to have actual sex instead of a wank in a cup and a turkey baster?!

Barking it's apparently a million times more effective if the sperm is ejaculated directly in to the woman . He very generously doesn't charge though - just gets to sleep with hundreds of different women. Oh and he insists they prove they are disease free. Naice .
Hope all goes well for you today. Let us know how you get on.

Good luck barking!

Omfg - What a service happy! I have a friend who donated his sperm (not by shagging loads of women) and has 12 offspring out there somewhere! Weird.

Good luck barking, when do you get the results? The tax thing is a bugger - I don't have a spare grand! I think you should be reassured that you're getting some good quality sleep earlier in the night, even if that's little consolation when you're wide awake at 3am. Even if you fall asleep easily, the pre bed time routine is important - maybe try hot milk, book and meditation track between 9-10 to gently wind down. I have to remember to do this when my early waking gets bad and it does help. I would say bath too but I'm not sure if they should be avoided in early pregnancy?! My FC said no baths in the 2ww and it has made me paranoid!

So, I've got my entire file from my old fc and have been reading through. 13 eggs were inseminated but only 5 fertilised. Now, I recall them saying only 7 were mature but it doesn't say that.

Any Berry wisdom on this seemingly low fertilisation rate and should I be doing more to improve egg quality? My new FC said with that fertilisation rate icsi might be needed despite good SA results....I also only got one blast (4bc) and one early blast.

Tiger I know there's some debate about this but it could be due to your higher stims - didn't they give you more incase they couldn't reach one of your ovaries? You take coq10 already don't you? Have you tried the Agate failed cycle thread on ff? I'm sure I've read something about high quantity v not many blasts recently. I'll try and find out.

Barking best of luck for today, ill be hanging around or news with my fingers crossed.

Happy are you any better today? I didn't see that programme but urgh that sounds awful. The children have his dna knob.

We had a bit of bad news in our family, dh's relation had died of ovarian cancer, it's so so sad. And she was quite young too.

Tiger, it would be worth finding out how many were mature as if it was 7 then 5 is a pretty good fertilisation rate. Different stimulation protocols can sometimes help egg quality. What is your amh?

Happy, good luck for tomorrow. Did you have a day 3 update?

tiger
It is worth finding out why they didn't fertilise.
We had an in depth consult with the FC and embryologist after our round with the terrible fertilisation rate.
There are half a dozen reasons why they don't fertilise, some will the egg related and some will be sperm related, so worth getting some more info on which were which.

beaky
Sorry to hear your family news. That's really terrible

happy thanks, is it EC for you tomorrow then? Will someone be going with you if your dh is away? Best of luck!

clem thanks, hey there, glad that your feeling better. I don't think I gave consent for my private fc to tell my gp, that might have changed when I was referred to the epu though.

smidge thanks, good luck with the sniffing

beaky poor beaky pup! Hope there aren't too many more loud bangs over the weekend. I'm so sorry about the pg announcement Have you thought about your questions for Gennet? Very sad news indeed about your dh's relative, her poor family

spare good luck for tomorrow!

barking how did you get on? Is there any way you can ask to swap the fragmin needles for a slightly narrower gauge? I didn't like the ones my pharmacy supplied for my stims last time, so used the slimmer subq needles from the buserelin.

tiger You made me tear up describing that wee boy on the tube. I want that too. If not the stims regime you might get low fertilisation if your follicles were quite spread out in terms of sizes, ie under and over mature. Amending the protocol might help. Or you could go with fc and try icsi, or poss ask about half ivf half icsi.

I'm feeling pretty shattered from dealing with all this shit tbh. I'd much rather have a quiet weekend with some yoga and maybe even a run, rather than go to London. But I'm trying to push through it and hopefully it will benefit things in the long run. Thanks for the clinic suggestions, I think create, lister, care and serum are all going to be there. Any other suggestions?

I've already got my wtf appointment in the diary for a week's time. I very pessimistically booked it during my 2ww. I need to do some proper thinking about what I want before then. I don't really want to deal with any of it though

Just running in to update, about to do jab and take tablets before going out, will post properly later.
Nurse said this morning she'd expect levels of 1000+ at 5wks. Test came back at 357. Based on ignoring date of lmc as I ov late and know that we only snagged on cd14 so ov must have been later than that, the rise has almost doubled as it should, it should be around 372.
So, not conclusive either way. No Korea blood tests offered, got to wait until 19th November for an early scan. She suggested next Friday but I think I'd still be less than 6 weeks due to Kate ov and therefore would be an inconclusive scan with no hb and being told to come back in 2 weeks. Been there, not doing that again.

Korea = more
Kate = late

barking that's a very respectable doubling score. I read everything I could find about hcg when I was at risk of mc. Around 48h is perfect, up to max 72h for viability. The actual no against week of pregnancy is pretty meaningless. Yes definitely hold out till you would expect to see a heartbeat on an early scan. It would be so tough to see anything less and not be sure if it's too early or not. You could try to insist on a third hcg early next week, based on cost and inconvenience of support drugs? 3 hcg tests would give max info on viability of pg.

Spare crossing everything for you for the morning, I'll be checking on as soon as I can. I wish there was a luck emoji. Sending tons of it your way.

Happy good luck for transfer tomorrow, almost pupo time!

Barking I've still got all appendages crossed for you that this is the one. I hope you can get another blood test to reassure you.

Sesame did you ever fill in Serum's online questionnaire? They recommended a clomid cycle for me for my low amh/poor response. I found overall it wasn't going to be cost effective travelling and staying there but that's because I can't fly out of our local airport easily/regularly and accommodation seemed expensive. Sorry you're struggling, it's to be expected but sure that doesn't make it easier. Other than what Gennet recommend in addition/as an alternative to what I've had, I don't have any q's in particular. I'll take suggestions of anyone has any!

Thanks for the kind words berries.

barking how frustrating that they don't listen to you when you know your own cycle and when you had sex. But based on your dates (and more importantly the time since last blood test) your HCG level sounds great. Everything I've read says it should double within 48-72 hours.

tiger I echo others' suggestions that you should def find out how many were mature. 5 out of 7 is a great score. I would think if it was only 5 out of 13 mature eggs, the FC would have mentioned it and maybe discussed diff treatment / icsi.

happy good luck!

Beaky really sorry to hear your family news. That is so very sad.

So far my sniffing has gone better this time thankyou - far less sneezing. Hoping that's just coz my body has got used to it from my previous attempt rather than the bottle of synarel is defective after being open for a month!!
I have to have a blood test in a week and then start stimms after I get my period. I keep hoping I'll get an FUFC

Oh and spare, the pom-poms are still going strong for you over here

beaky yes I filled in the serum questionnaire too and that's what they recommended. I didn't follow up with all my questions though. I also can't get direct flights to Athens where I live, and it would be a long way to go if I end up with no eggs collected. That's really the main barrier for me with treatment abroad. At least with own egg anyway.

I would ask them about anything they could do to max nos and quality, if it's worth trying mini or low stims, about avoiding early ovulation (while maximizing quality). Those are the things I've on my own list. You could also ask if they recommend any further investigations or adjuvant treatments. You might also ask about own egg vs donor and about single vs multiple cycles. Hope this helps.

smidge glad sniffing's going ok and that's you are underway again. Hope this cycle runs more to plan (ie ending with a sticky bfp, however you achieve it! )

The fc called and confirmed my official bfn. Thank god for hpt's - they waited till after 5pm, the buggers!

tiger I thought the no baths in 2ww was due to risk of infection after they've poked around but maybe they're just saying no baths because you're not supposed to have a hot bath in pg? This week I've generally come home from work, eaten dinner then gone to bed. Not managed to squeeze an extra routine in there, was in bed by 8 on bonfire night! Thanks for the advice though, I'll try that tonight got MiL staying so maybe bed by 6pm?!

I agree that if 7 were mature then 5 is a great fertilisation rate. Unfortunate that they didn't write it in your notes . Q10 seems to be the way forwards if you're not already taking it, the other one is dhea but I think berries have had mixed experience with that.

beaky sad news . Were you never given the option of clomid on the NHS?

smidge everything crossed for you It happened last time so it's only natural to hope it will happen again.

spare I'm wide awake so thought I'd spend my time productively, pom poming silently for you. I have everything crossed.

happy good luck for et today .

sesame I've obviously got shit loads of needles sitting in the house right now, but the fragmin comes pre filled in the little syringes so I wouldn't be able to switch unless I had an empty vial to squirt the liquid into then draw up again.
I'm so sorry it was confirmed . I hope you get some really interesting info in London that gives you some hope. I'd be focusing on places that will look thoroughly into potential reasons it didn't work before trying again.

Thanks for the support berries. I feel horribly guilty that I've managed to sneak a mid ivf bfp without having to go through the stress of ec/et, and guilty that I seem ungrateful about it as I just can't handle what's happening. I still can't shake the feeling that there were supposed to be two more weeks of drugs in my system to support this, and it's doomed to fail again.
I'm angry at the nurse for telling me it was bad news yesterday when all the berry wisdom on here and from the grads who've popped up has told me the rise is normal (albeit the lower end of 'normal'). But this is what happened last time. I got an hcg of 62 when it should have been over 100 and the nurse said it didn't look good. Then two days later another nurse said looking at the rise it was fine and the first nurse had written my notes down wrong. But then it wasn't okay at the scan and we had a week of limbo before the second scan confirmed it was all over. Can't help feeling history is repeating itself but then I want to give myself a wang because I know every single one of you would love to be in my position right now and I'm being horribly selfish by whinging about it on here so I'm just going to lurk and desperately wait for good news from spare and happy.
I can do all the early hours pom pom waving shifts .

Thanks for the early morning vigil barking
I'm just going to quietly put this here...

Congratulations spare! Very pleased to see this. How do you feel?

barking all this talk of insomnia and I found myself wide awake between 3.30 and 6am. I wouldn't have woken up if it wasn't for t-dog who was very unsettled and stressed due to the fireworks. I had to clear up a wee as I didn't get down in time and then I couldn't get back to sleep!!

These early weeks are so hard - imagine, for some people, they are simply pregnant - no drugs, hcg worries, dpo calculations etc, just plain old pregnant without a care. But, for us its a battle and we're here to provide the support that's needed to get through it.

sesame sorry to make you tear up. It's funny but I don't particularly want a baby, I want a family to share my life with, and I find seeing that harder than babies and bumps. Thanks for the thoughts - I also read the agates guide to failed cycles thread as beaky recommended.?I definitely fall into the category of loads of folicles, not that many mature/fertilised eggs. There are some interesting suggestions in there which I'll explore with the new fc. smidge I'm at a new FC now and they have my notes and specially brought it up and mentioned icsi - the notes don't say only 7 were mature as far as I can see. Glad the sniffing is going ok - no harm in keeping on trying and hoping for a FUFC. It can happen!

I haven't actually had a follow up post ivf spare as they cancelled it and I haven't rearranged - should probably sort that.

So sorry about the sad news beaky, such a tragedy. Hope you and the family are doing ok. How's beaky pup? T-dog is so out of sorts - she just lay shaking and panting all evening and it's horrible to see. Do you think you'll try a clomid round? Hope you have a good weekend.

Good luck happy!

Need to get out of bed - jobs galore to do today!

Aw what a lovely picture spare whoop!

Smidge I'm also hoping you get a fufc. It's totally about time some berries were out of here. It's been too long.

Woohoo Spare fantastic congrats lady!

Sesame so sorry your bfn was confirmed. It's utter shitty bollocks isn't it. Back in the wine wigwam for us (having said that I'm bucking my ideas up and am on the green tea). Would you maybe try somewhere like Gennet? Prague seems to be a lot cheaper flight and accommodation wise, and treatment wise. Recently I've been considering when to stop ivf and I'm not sure whether I may go past my next final NHS round. I'm also concerned about the health impacts of repeated treatment. I haven't ever really wanted to adopt but it's definitely been in my mind more than ever recently. Hmm, I really need to get to a counsellor eh!
Thanks for the tips for the new consultation, I will also ask about an FET I think, as I've never tried that before.

Tiger poor tigerpup! Beaky pup isn't too bad but she woke up and vomited in the night so I was awake for about 2 hours definitely try and get your follow up with the old clinic, it would def be worth hearing what they have to say. I read somewhere that some people can have an issue with the egg and sperm binding and so icsi can sometimes get round that. When is your next consult with the new clinic? For some reason I have not this week but next in my head?!

Anyway hope all you berries have lovely weekends

Sesame I hope the fertility show is helpful today, let us know what they say please!

beaky had my ORT tests (put the update at the end) sorry to hear about your friends baby announcements...I think we all feel like that...its hard to handle. I managed to get baby bombed with ultrasounds on fb this week, annoying thing is, it landed in my feed, due to a friends husband (who I've not spoken too, for over 5 years...commenting on someone I don't know...its like seriously...and sorry to hear about dh relative too, its hard to comprehend, when they are still young, hope you and your family are all okay. xx

tiger hope you are holding up okay...its horrible when you feel so down, makes you question everything doesn't it. have a hug and hope it passes soon. thanks for the 3d sis explanation.

seasame hope you are holding up okay too. sorry your bfn was confirmed. just make sure you take what time you need, to look after yourself. ref. the exhibition, the one I went too, was only a small one, but we tried to speak to a few UK based ones, and a few abroad based ones (if thats a consideration for you). with the UK ones, you may want to narrow down, by location for you...

barking hope things are still going okay for you, and that you aren't worrying too much. getting the earlier blood test sounds like a good idea. wish I could get to bed as early as you do (I'm rarely in bed before midnight...not really by choice, dh tends to stay up later, and I then do too (otherwise we are often like ships passing in the night).

spare congratulations, great to see the positive test...so have your dreams settled down yet? I've been remembering a few dreams this week too (nothing fertility/pregnancy related tho)...wondering if I'm not sleeping well.

happy omg, that program sounds awful...shocking (not) that jodie marsh was involved. whole thing just sounds hideous.

so my ovarian reserve tests went okay this week...at CD4 I was showing 15 follicles on the left ovary and 14 on the right (this is without being on clomid)...also had 2 lovely cysts (one on each side)...but I'll ignore them for now. nurse gave indications that this number was a good amount to have, so I think I'm happy with those results. then had the blood tests (bit of a faff, as I have crap veins, and it took 1 nurse, then 1 doctor 5 attempts to find a vein they could access (got it from my hand in the end). its like this everytime...good job I don't mind needles. results will be available for the blood tests within the week.

we have also decided to book dh in for another SA (so we can compare it to the one earlier in the year, to see if anything has changed and if so, maybe get him on some more supplements.

also got the doc to send me to local hospital, to get my level 1 immunes blood tests done...once I get the results back, I'll work out what to do next (have been recommended by a friend of a friend who had lots of fertility issues, to maybe speak to zita west clinic, to see what they advice, based on my results.

acupuncture - quick question to anyone who has this...what are the benefits, is it something you'd have around ovulation/implantaion (or et) and any advice on what I could search for, to find a good one?

and finally...frer - can I ask what that means?

FRER - First Response Early response - the best pregnancy tests for testing early, because they are super sensitive