The BESH are cheating on Luck with Irony, all Hags aboard for the ironiclusterdiff of the decade (for the B's and the none B's!)

[Blue2014]

You know the drill by now ...

Rules of Entry - must be over 30, TTC no. 1 for over a year, be suitably evil and Hag like, willing to shout Cunt at the moon on regular occasions, consume extra gin when our fellow hags are unable to, and to get the nipple tassles out for any successful Hag ...

No admittance without a complete BESHtionnaire - see below.

Thanks Chez. Good to see you, woman. Sorry about all the sizzle.It seems to me that when it rains, it fucking pours but this years of crap and more crap MUST end soon, right? RIGHT?? Just statistically, I am saying...

I am feeling way better. It sucks, so hard, but it is not like the first time, when you see a BFP and you think "awesome, I am having a baby".

We are going to take a couple of months to regroup (and spend all the cash in therapy, individual and couple´s because as you know, things have not been super hot on that front either) and then see what kind of treatment we should go for... The thing is that I have been tested for NK cells, blood clotting etc and it only came back as a slight Protein S deficiency (blood clotting) that obviously the Heparin did not manage to tackle.

But doing IVF without "doing something" about the rmc seems crazy, painful and expensive. But it seems to have worked for some or many people, just getting the rights eggs and sperm in...

Aaargh. I want a doctor that knows everything about everything and tells me exactly what to do. I am even considering taking unpaid leave at work for a few months to concentrate on this. Which, I am sure you will, makes me super mental but I need to fucking resolve this one way or another...

Let´s regroup BESH. I miss you.

Erica I'm really sorry to hear your news. It's utterly shit and despite the fact that it's another mc and not the first one of utter devastation it's still shit. Especially when you don't have any answers.

For what it's worth I left my high pressured job after two rounds of IVF and 3 years of TTC to concentrate on it as I felt as if I needed to truly give it my all. As luck would have it (!?!) my father was then very ill and died when my next round was due so we cancelled it and I got to spend his last two months with him for which I feel very blessed. I was then diagnosed with endo so waited for another 9 months to have a lap then did IVF 2 months later (delayed by full blown flu last Christmas). I then did my final round of IVF and had everything thrown at it - intralipid infusions, aspirin before transfer, clexane after, dexamethasone before transfer, prednisolone after, progesterone and oestrogen of course on top of all the IVF drucks. I also did acupuncture, gentle exercise, meditation and switched off from the world. I don't know whether it was one of these things, all of them together or plain luck that made it work but we felt it was worth a go. I definitely think there is something about my hcg levels being so low that is where the problem lies but I'm not sure if we'll ever know truly. The chances of it working were apparently below 5% but I decided not to think about that!! Sometimes hope is the last thing you want, I can remember thinking that hope was a complete and utter fucking bastard sometimes as it made you keep going when a sane person would stop, but....but....sometimes it just does work. Go off and regroup with your husband. Therapy both separately and joint is a great idea. And enjoy yourselves together. Keep reminding each other why you are a couple and why you love each other as ultimately that's the most important thing.
Cuttlefish of calm and comfort.
Ps Blue. Shoulder punch for that fish name. I'm impressed!

Fab, thanks so much for sharing, I mean that. I am at the point where I feel embarrassed of telling people I am THINKING of continuing trying because they must think I am a masochist... so you story has cheered me right up.

I also have the usual guilt and shame that comes with miscarrying. I feel useless and worthless, why cannot my body do what everyone else seems to manage so easily, why do I have to put Mr Erica and myself through all this. It may sound silly but I feel so stupid and embarrassed. People do not know what to say anymore ("I am sure next time will work out!¨ does not wash anymore), not their fault but it just makes me feel worse.

In my case, I feel it is a bit of everything... bit of endo (but nothing that would stop most people from conceiving), slight blood clotting issues... but you know, not an IDENTIFIED PROBLEM WE CAN FIGHT, just generally having a body that does not seem to be very baby friendly. That is why I am thinking of taking a few months off life, get the dog I have been wanting for years and just try and relax, make peace with myself and give it our best. It has been four years and four mcs, at some point we will have to move on but I do not think I can before I feel I have given it our absolute all.

How is Fablet? We need more CHESH stories to remind us that it does happen!

Have you been to a private clinic at all? Have you had the Chicago tests? They might help? Ridiculous expensive ( from memory about £2k for about 17 bloods) but they do test you for everything. My clinic - Zita West in London are big fans of it. Not sure if you've read 'is My Body Baby-Friendly?' By Dr Alan Beer. Its worth a read at least.

Oh I forgot I also had the MTHFR gene mutation so have to take Pregnacare Max and I had an Endometrial Scratch to aid implantation just prior to IVF. OUCH.

Arse forgot to say what your feeling is completely normal. It's shitty but normal. But don't worry about what other people think. It's all about what you and Mr Erica think and feel that matters.

FabI have been to a private clinic (Eugin in Barcelona) but at that stage it was more about trying IVF to get pregnant that the recurrent mc... They did something like 37 tests to try and find out the reason for the mcs and the only thing that came back dodgy was the Protein S thing... But more "sophisticated" testing is probably a good idea.

I am a bit torn now because while I cannot wait another year to get pregnant naturally (I have managed it once a year, for the last four years and still no baby), it is the rmc that really worries me... Basically, I don't know what to tackle first or whether tackle it all at once or what. And of course, try to a avoid falling back into the huge crisis Mr Erica and I went through just before this surprise pg, as a result of the stress and frustration of the last few years of TTC

I assume you would recommend the Zita West Clinic in London, then?

I am going to get that book straight away, and some Pregnacare Max for good measure :)

Thanks, hags. I do feel waaay less lonely now!

Oh Erica I'm so sorry :(.

I don't have time to post properly as I'm supposed to be out of the house 5 minutes ago, but I'll come back later and offer useless advice. Just marking my place so I can find the thread later...

Thanks Barking, good to see you here.

So what´s the plan, are all the remaining hags going to do a spring time IVF or what?

E-mailed the clinic asking about the possibility of doing a PGS if we go ahead with the IVF... Very rough plan could look something like:

• Find out it there are more test for rmc I could go through
• IVF with PGS plus all the drugs.
• All the drugs, all the therapy.

More drugs find out if theres is some IVF friendly sedative out there

Fab what would qualify as "gentle exercise" for you? I like hiking?

I was supposed to have been stabbing by now, but I'm on cd75 post mc and still no AF. Almost 11 fucking weeks now!!! You have to have a cycle to cycle... If it's not here by Monday then I'm going back to the clinic and they'll hopefully give me provera or similar to make it happen. This is why I've been AWOL - there's just nowt happening!

Have you had the Chicago tests that Fab mentioned? I had those after mc2 and the failed ivf + et. That was when they picked up on the mthfr, th1:th2, and nk cells (I've had the biopsy and the bloods now, they show different things). They courier your blood over to Chicago for them, so doesn't matter which clinic you go to. You can also do it yourself - get someone to take your blood samples then post it all yourself and get the results emailed.
I'll be on intralipids, clexane, metaformin, progesterone and prednisolone.

I've been given the chances of it working as 15%.

In all honesty I just want to get it over with so we can move on to the adoption process by the end of the year (you have to wait 6 months post failed fertility treatment).

I think you are totally doing the right thing taking time off. I took a week off with mc3, then worked at home for a week. I quit teaching after mc2 to reduce stress for TTC purposes, as well as get a job that fitted better round ridiculous numbers of appointments.

Be kind to yourself

Hey Barking

Sorry AF is playing hide and seek. What a bitch.

Interesting about the Chicago tests. The clinic said they would test me for everything and it took around 6-8 weeks (and a lot of money) to get the results so I am wondering if they that is what they did. To be honest, at the the time I was going through the motions... things at home were really tense and just thinking about TTC and IVF made me break in a cold sweat so I did not pay enough attention...

I have now asked them to send me the report with all the tests and results so I can check and I am going to see the consultant in a couple of weeks and put them through a third degree to make sure we do absolutely everything we can.

I feel the same about needing to give it a last super go so we can move on. Not sure we would go for adoption but this mental and physical torture needs to end, we need to get on with our marriage and our lives. We do not feel that we are done yet but we agree we need an exit plan so we do not find ourselves down this miserable hole ten years down the line.

Can I ask you what are the intralipids for?

Hags, it is Friday at least.

It's the weekend!!!!!
and I can't fucking do anything as I'm injured

How are you doing physically Erica ?
I honestly can't remember what the intralipids are for! Possibly the th1:th2? But I know others who have had them for raised nk, and sometimes it's just part of the 'throw everything at it' approach.

Hey hags,
Sorry I'm not much use on the tests stuff, I wish I could help. I just can't believe all the shit my hags have had to go through
I can't believe how long it's taken me to even learn about "basic IVF". We are having PGS with the Czech package but I'm so naive to it all I've no idea if it'll help. I feel a little like a instadiffer with my complete naivety nobody say hope!

How did you get injured, Barking?

Physically I am doing fine. Looks like I miscarried "completely¨pretty much straight away, I am still bleeding a bit but not pain. I guess now I have to go through the headfuckery of POASing fucking hoping that I get a BFN so I can start again.

I really like the "throw everything at it" school of thought!

Blue I emailed my clinic about the PGS and they said that they need to check our karyotypes (sp?) so they can asses ... so I am going to go and see them and try to find out more. The way I see, I could be miscarrying because we are not making good embryos so it sort of makes sense to check?

I must say, I was all fired up a few days ago (avoidance technique I suspect) but I am not sure I have the energy... I guess it goes on waves. Who would have the energy for this shitshow for 4 years, anyway??

Erica I couldn't face poas to wait for a bfn, just had the blood test at the clinic to check hcg levels.

I hadn't been running since October as I stopped when I started stabbing. After the mc bleeding had stopped I went for a alow run with a friend, then carried on running two or three times a week but it was too much too soon after the break in training and by Xmas I was in pain and had to stop. I concentrated on just cycling and swimming as there's no impact on the knees, but did a turbo session a couple of weeks ago and they've been much worse since, can't cycle and it hurts when I walk now.
As a result I have done fuck all today. What do people do with their day when they can't run or cycle or go on long walks?!

Blue when does your ivf kick off?

Barking - we lie on the sofa and read books (your question actually made my head go "ha ha ha ha ha") a part of me wishes I was you, I can't imagine having a brain that thinks running is fun or something I would choose to do

All being well, IVF starts early March.

Hi hags, please let's not let the BESH freds die, that might push me over the edge.. It was good ? to read your updates, I haven't been around much lately, and good to see you cherry and fab - you give me complete bastard hope.

We had our first "ivf" appointment last Monday, they do it in a ridiculous order, blood tests, scan, sperm, then chat with consultant. I have high amh but none the wiser as to what that actually means for me, and MrC has low count. The ones that are there are OK apparently but there are very few there. Chances of natural conception very small as if I needed a doctor to tell me that
I can't stop feeling sad. We only get one NHS go and we can't afford to pay for any ourselves without getting into debt. I don't want to use my NHS go because then when it doesn't work I've got no fallback. I don't know what to do

I know what you mean Barking, but I I feel the same about having to go to the clinic, waiting for results etc... too many memories of failed clomid, IUIs, confirmed mcs.

Sorry to hear that your knees are playing up Barking. Hope you recover quickly so you can go back to swimming at least.

I am not much of a runner but I do love a hike and just working out a sweat to release some stress. I started hiking again pretty much straight after the mc, I just needed to be out and BREATH. I was pretty sore but it was worth it, it has really helped me feel better (even though I was that weirdo crying with face full of snot mid route. Never mind). Also, the hiking in this part of the world is just so beautiful, it really lifts the spirits (ok , will stop with the cheese now, do not kick me out from the thread quite yet).

That said, you all know I am partial to books and milk chocolate baguettes in the sofa :)

Blue Early March is so soon!! AAARRGHHGHG!! Crossing everything for you.

Cooper I will be here, hag. I am so sorry you are feeling sad. Infertility is a total physical and emotional headfuck and sometimes you just have to cry and howl at the moon. Can you get some counselling through NHS or Mind (I got subsidised counselling through them, they are amazing). I know I am always going on about therapy but I honestly don´t know what I would have done without it the last few years.

Has anyone here tried antidepressants? I am considering some pregnancy friendly ones so I do not fall to pieces during IVF?

I know what you mean about not wanting to use the last option. I think we have been dragging our feet about IVF for a while for the same reason, while we do not try it, the option is still there... what does Mr Cooper think? What are the alternatives if you wait? IUI ...?

What are you hags doing today? I am going to hike and meet friends for brunch. Childless, younger friends who do not look at me with pity, not knowing what to say...

Coop I'm so sorry you are feeling so awful. I'm going to do the cardinal sin of offering hope here so forgive me ...

Mr B was also very low count on his first test. Now I honestly partly think this is chance (he was drinking a little heavier before his first test too) but we put him on fertilaid and his count went from less than 2 million on the first test to around 30 million on the second. I also can't remember where all Hags live but if you can get to London there is a sperm specialist who is around £500 and can help a lot with some cases (we decided to just go for ICSI and cut of the 6 month wait for treatment to be effective but he gets rave reviews)

After that, if you did think there was any bit of money around come join me at the Czech clinic. I've been saving for this since before we started trying don't tell me being a pessimist isn't a good thing so I'm throwing literally every add on option at it and it's still coming it around £3000 a time (with genetic screening etc) basic package is around £1400 a time (or less if you go for a 'natural round')
Right I'll shut up with that bastard hope now.

Ah Erica, chocolate baguettes ... They ARE anti-depressants aren't they?! I'm booked for therapy but really for non TTC issoos (it's been a shit few years). I know some people in my life on meds and it's helped massively. I think it depends on your symptoms (for me, I think the meds are good for the physiological symptoms so they'll improve sleep, anger, appetite, motivation) it's certainly worth considering

It's ace to have the Hags back ..

Hey Coop,

Hope you are feeling better today, hag. Eugin in Barcelona is around 4,500 EUR for IVF with ICSI but it does not include PGS I don´t think and I have the feeling that is going to be expensive However, I think they do some check ups beforehand to assess if you need it. Their success rates seem pretty good, we will see.

For me another option is to do it here in Eastern Africa, where it is CHEAP (but obviously not practical if you do not happen to live here). You would be AMAZED at the amount of twin babies you see around, you would think that success rates are not too shabby either but I need to check because I imagine IVF is not something you want to do again and again with low-ish chances of working.

For me it is quite important that the clinic has a recurrent miscarriage unit or specialist since I am shitting myself about mc-ing again so I am starting my research again from that angle.

(I imagine that wit the info above I have completely outed myself but fuck it).

Good luck with the therapy Blue. I think i will discuss antidepressants with the consultant when we get a start date to IVF. I feel reasonable ok now (well, not ok, but you know what I mean) but I suspect that the 2ww and the 12 fucking week wait if we are lucky will be hell. I want to cry just thinking about it.

Barking Has the droid shown up yet?

Are you planning on Barcelona then Erica? It's funny isn't it of course it's not fucking funny, you know what I mean hmm] the things you never even considered would be something you did in your life. I'm such a home body and I love the NHS, how is it I'm about to go pay for medical treatment in another country?!

Well, the chance of an ironidiff or a miracle baby, which surely I'm owed seeing having a dead father cancelled what should have been my January treatment is gone. Droid arrived today, I honestly had a tiny little bastard hope that the month before I start stabbing would be the one but never mind. We decided not to try in Feb, I can't take anymore "let's sechs now!" And would rather just get to meds ordered soon.im bloody needle phobic too but never mind!

How's my hags?

Blue Eugin Clinic have been amazing so far... but I have just seen that other clinics in Barcelona have better success rates... mmhm... I think I am going to stick to the "who seems most clued up on rmc" angle.

I saw my gyno here (E Africa) today and he reckons I should give myself a break and not do IVF for now, just try naturally (someone please kill me). He is of the school of "throw everything at it" if/when I get diffed (hey Barking!) so he would like to spare me the added stress of IVF, if at all possible.

I am a bit dubious because "trying naturally" can be a fucking nightmare and according to my history, I am not due a surprise BFP for another 10 months but I do appreciate his trying to keep me sane ( too late, mate )

He has put me on 75 mg of aspirin every day.

Blue sorry the droid got you. That bitch. Sending you chocolate baguettes.

Oh I would love a chocolate baguette!!

I actually prefer at the moment, naive maybe the idea of IVF to trying naturally. I'm sorry but when you've been trying "naturally" nothing natural about this fucking process for over 3 years it fucks you up. I would much rather be medically interfered with at this stage but I realise that's probably more about me than the process.

I totally understand, Blue.

And I also hate needles. I found it easier when Mr Erica did the stabbing, somehow it is more difficult to do something so unpleasant to yourself!

Can I ask you how long you are staying Czech for the treatment?

I'd run away from Mr B if he came at me with a needle!
We are away approximately 10 days but are planning on a Europe driving holiday between egg collection and transfer if we get enough eggs (hope to go to 5 day blasts) we need to be there by cycle day 12.