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Conception

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The BESH are cheating on Luck with Irony, all Hags aboard for the ironiclusterdiff of the decade (for the B's and the none B's!)

1000 replies

Blue2014 · 27/06/2015 18:53

You know the drill by now ...

Rules of Entry - must be over 30, TTC no. 1 for over a year, be suitably evil and Hag like, willing to shout Cunt at the moon on regular occasions, consume extra gin when our fellow hags are unable to, and to get the nipple tassles out for any successful Hag ...

No admittance without a complete BESHtionnaire - see below.

OP posts:
barkingtreefrog · 28/08/2015 19:12

Sorry for being AWOL, appointment with private clinic on Wednesday blew my mind, have spent the last two days wondering what the hell to do regarding expensive immunology tests, and the MN being down, then up, then the app being stopped has really messed with my mn time!!

driz are you PUPO?! Grin

rain IOTO!! I think they're best popped in tomorrow anyway, if they're happy putting back two and there isn't a definite front runner then surely there's no reason to wait until day 5? Get them safely installed in the warm womb room Smile.

to everyone else and retreats back to googling different immunology tests and treatments...

Fabuluce · 28/08/2015 20:03

Cmon Barking don't keep us in suspense - tell us more about your consultant appointment!

barkingtreefrog · 28/08/2015 21:44

Oh, fab, you asked, so I take no responsibility for answering... Wink

I'm not even going to mention the IVF or the test results, I need to get my head round the possible immune testing first.
Here's an indication of the last two days inside my head:

We were given lots of information including a paper which is pretty inconclusive but dates from 2008, so not that up to date.

In their own literature they say that up to two-thirds of early pregnancies miscarry (the highest figure I've heard) and chromosomal abnormalities are the major factor, but it mentions the possibility of the women's immune system compromising successful embryo implantation in the case of failed IVF or early miscarriage. The consultant stressed that the research is in the early stages and many possible treatments are not universally accepted.
They suggest that the following couples are at increased risk and should consider immune testing:
a) women over 35 who have had 2 mc or 2 failed IVF cycles
b) women under 35 who have had 3 mc or 3 failed IVF cycles
c) less than 6 eggs from an IVF cycle
d) unexplained infertility of over 3 years
e) previous pregnancies resulting in small babies
f) repeated mc while trying to have a 2nd child.

I can tick both 2 mc and 2 failed cycles in a), and d) as well, so seems like a good idea.

After research so far though, my conclusion is that CARE are expensive! From what I've read (I've now read a lot) the Nottingham clinic are the leaders in the field, and the consultant there worked closely with Chicago, but the consultant we saw works closely with the Nottingham bloke anyway...

These are the tests we've been recommended/quoted:

TH1:TH2 ratio abnormalities£590
C4/M2 variant£155
MTHFR£160
PAIP Gene Polymorphism£176
Auto Antibody Profile 1£108
NK Panel £670

Just these add up to over £2000!!

The TH1:TH2 is apparently £350 at Lister rather than £590 at CARE which is a significant difference! (although I don't know whether you can just rock up for tests without paying for a consultation, and I don't particularly want to travel to London). This is one of the 'Chicago' tests though, so one that you can also get done yourself directly with the hospital cheaper, you just need to fedex your blood across. Haven't found all the details yet, that's a job for later...

The other level 2 /Chicago test is the NK Panel and I'm really torn on this one and could do with some advice - if my nk cells biopsy came back as 'normal' is there any point doing the nk blood test? I do understand they are different, but is it worth £670 if nothing showed up in the biopsy?

The treatment for the C4/M2 variant seems to be heparin - but I'm going to be on this anyway due to the factor v leiden thrombophilia, so it seems pointless getting tested if I'll be having the treatment either way?

And I haven't looked in PAIP Gene Polymorphism yet...

This is my current thinking -

a) as far as my internet research tells me, Chicago is the birthplace no pun intended of all the immune stuff, and still where all the level 2 bloods are sent. In the UK, Dr G at Care in Nottingham worked closely with the Chicago dr (Beer?) and Dr Shehata is the other name always mentioned. We're with Care, just not in Nottingham (where there's usually a massive waiting list anyway) so our consultant has worked with Dr G and follows the same procedures so that's good enough for me.

b) We could go somewhere that would give me the pred and the intralipids anyway, but they aren't without risks and the Care clinic is walking distance from our house, and close to my office as well. It also has a car park. This sounds ridiculous, but there isn't anywhere else in our city apart from the NHS clinic that I never want to go back to (they also do private patients) and the private clinic that didn't give me gas and air for the horrible biopsy, which sends their patients to the NHS/private clinic for bits of the treatment anyway, so I don't want to go anywhere else unless there's a really good reason - the convenience of it reduces a lot of stress around work and travel when going in during the cycle.

c) ARGC doesn't do immunes for patients who aren't having IVF with them anyway (although I'm not sure how they could force you?!)

d) Doing it all the long way round would take longer as well as add to the stress, and I don't know yet how the clinic would react to us side stepping them (when he quoted us over £1000 for the drugs and I asked if we could source them ourselves he didn't say no but he kept going on about how potentially stressful that could be, and what if I ran out etc.) even if we make a decision this weekend, we've probably missed the boat to start in mid September by the time we've had the bloods done - and we'll be doing long protocol this time, so that then jumps to November/December being the month it will all happen, and that would mean an August baby (I'M JOKING!!! What I mean is the consultant told us we could start immediately if we wanted to - ie in 2 weeks, so Nov/Dec is far too far away for my impatient mind)

e) On the other hand it's MiL who has offered to pay for this, and I feel like I should be travelling round the country/posting my blood to the US myself if that's what it takes to get the costs down.

f) Oh, and I'm also considering the hidden infections test with Serum... (haven't told DH about that one yet).

Fabuluce · 28/08/2015 22:07

Well there's certainly a lot to think about there!! For the record my consultant was Dr George Ndukwe at Zita West, formerly of Care who also studied under Dr Alan Beer in Chicago. (His book Is My Body Baby Friendly is v interesting). I had my auto immune tests (17 vials in one sitting!) done in sept 2013 for £1750 and I came back with the MTHFR gene mutation and high anti nuclear anti bodies so when we finally did our latest round of IVF I was treated with extra prednisolone for 16 weeks, clexane for 12 weeks, pregnacare Max for the whole pregnancy as I can't process folic acid properly and intralipid infusions on top of the normal drugs. There's no problem with you sourcing your own drugs just be aware that on occasion when you're stimming that you might have to occasionally get more expensive ones if you need them quickly. If I were you I'd avoid argc as although they have a good results reputation they don't have a great reputation for treating their clients well (think cattle). I'd suggest somewhere that treats you with respect, sensitivity and care would suit you better. I can't recommend Zita west highly enough as they have an holistic approach and we're professional, honest, kind and caring the whole way through. But they aren't near you so that's not ideal.

Fabuluce · 28/08/2015 22:12

Also, you could potentially consider doing the tests, giving yourself some time to crack on with life, enjoy Christmas etc and giving it a full crack of the whip in January thus giving you an October baby like me?? Great for schools ????

And I also had dexamethasone for doenregging and stims which helps with egg quality apparently.

None of this is cheap by any stretch of the imagination but if your MIL has offered to pay then I'd be tempted to make sure you get the best for your money - don't short change yourself because someone else is paying - check costs with her of course but don't not do something for fear of cost - this is life changing for you so make the most of it. Plus if she didn't want to do it she wouldn't have offered right?

barkingtreefrog · 28/08/2015 22:40

My AMH was 'low' and my antral follicle count was 'low'. Time is not something I feel I have on my side. Waiting is not something I'm good at - we've been waiting almost 4 years now...
And an August baby means a year less childcare to pay for Wink.

Fabuluce · 28/08/2015 23:37

Who you know what your Amh level was?

Fabuluce · 28/08/2015 23:37

Do - not who!! Bloody phone.

barkingtreefrog · 28/08/2015 23:51

Amh = 7

Fabuluce · 29/08/2015 08:10

Ok, so that's fairly low but not end of the world low which is good! If you started in two weeks time though they wouldn't have had the results back from the Chicago tests would they? So would you potentially be putting yourself through another round of the same course of action as before? Isn't it best to try something new this time even if it did mean waiting a couple of months?

TheRainDrops · 29/08/2015 11:19

Morning hags! Just checking in to report that I have 2 embies on board! One 10 cell and one 6. They've graded both as 'average' due to some fragmentation but I'm not going to stress over that. Been for a relaxing woo needles session (pre and post) and now waiting for RAF to deliver me some American style pancakes and bacon. Going to take it easy the rest of today but any fishy offerings or yelling of COW gratefully received!

Fabuluce · 29/08/2015 17:09

COW COW COW! Awesome news and you are officially PUPO, well done Rain! Time to relax and pamper - menkul shouldn't be bad for the first few days hopefully ????

barkingtreefrog · 29/08/2015 18:24

rain COW!!!

Fab we'll wait for the results first. They take 3 weeks so it depends whether we've got to wait until they're back before starting downregging on day 21 as any treatment wouldn't be until after stims started (doing long protocol).

CaveMum · 29/08/2015 19:49

COW! COW! COW!

lovesLemonDrizzleCake · 30/08/2015 21:29

COW COW COW
Everything crossed rain, when is OTD?

Sorry barking no insights on the consultation, plenty of things to consider tho. So massive good luck with choosing how to proceed.

I am PUPO as well. Keeping my head firmly in the sand as long as I can no continual comparisons with two years ago, honest

TheRainDrops · 31/08/2015 11:18

Woohoo! COW back at you driz!!! How did it go?

OTD is the 11th which feels bloody ages away. Back to work on Weds so determined to take it easy till then, and not think about the mountain of things waiting for me. I can see now why some women take the whole two weeks off!

Hope everyone's having a good BH weekend - off out into the rain for some fresh air and dinner at the pub with MIL later.

lovesLemonDrizzleCake · 31/08/2015 13:11

My OTD is 10th, which is ages as well. But I doing a am natural cycle FET, so droid is due on the 8th. If it doesn't materialise it may have worked. ET was absolutely fine, the embie was the exact same stage as drizz-boy was 2 years ago and giving birth has clearly made my cervix a little less fussy. Where I hurt and bled for at least halve of my 8 IUIs and 2 ETs, not so now :) I don't remember how much to adjust your lifestyle after ET. Any thoughts? I forgot to ask (too busy taking pics of the embie for SB who couldn't make transfer, but did the did they defrost phone call).

Have you had a chance to think about your enormo-list barking?

Hope you don't mind a drop or three thousand rain, considering your name! Have a good dinner. Being at home would drive me mad... I am at work and was for all other bits post-transfer. We agreed though if we ever do another fresh round I'll take the bit in the middle off. I do vvv badly on DRing drucks, but it made the difference between 1 runaway follie and loads, so we'd opt for lp again...

Cave did you get a definite clinic date through yet?

cooperG · 31/08/2015 17:26

rain COW!!

cooperG · 31/08/2015 17:26

Ooh, and driz! Smile

barkingtreefrog · 31/08/2015 17:47

Ooo, all go on the 10th/11th! Grin

I quite liked how comparatively quickly antagonist protocol was started and finished (ie just longer than a normal cycle) so I'm a bit worried about doing the long protocol. Not a fan of stabbing myself either who is? so more drugs isn't appealing. But long protocol was suggested due to my low AMH and the uneven stimming last time (2 leading follicles).

driz spoke to MiL and I've crossed a couple of tests off the list but we're doing the rest - need to call and book in tomorrow and see how quickly they can get them in...

Blue2014 · 01/09/2015 11:35

Wow, Im away for a while and look at all the PUPO!! Exciting times Rain and Drizz.

Barking, that's lots to consider, glad you've been able to speak with MIL and make some decisions. Would you consider treatment abroad for a cheaper option (I'm really asking cos I'm still considering my own treatment options!)

Couldn't have any non-TTC secs after the cancelled HSG because I'm still not allowed to get pregnant before it! I've also been away and my usual regular as clockwork cycle decided to arrive 5 days early which kind of messed up any plans I could have had. Ah well ...

I probably wont be posting that much til the app is up and running but I will be reading so I'm here and chanting COW loudly!

OP posts:
Blue2014 · 01/09/2015 14:58

FFS, the clinic have misplaced Mr Blue's spaff results! They are confident of finding them, think they've just been sent to the wrong department but I dont need this, its hard work enough as it is!

OP posts:
CaveMum · 02/09/2015 18:02

Oh for goodness sake, that's ridiculous Blue. Have they found them yet?

Sod's Law is kicking in here, I appear to be getting ready to lay an egg (judging by my pant snot) and HWHNN is away until tomorrow night. We haven't had sechs for about a week as he's been ill so I shall be unimpressed if we miss out on what might be our last chance to naturally conceive before treatment starts.

I mean, it's only CD19: I NEVER ovulate this "early" in a non-medicated cycle Hmm

Blue2014 · 03/09/2015 15:08

Yeah that found them or so they say, awaiting them being posted to us.

Sorry about the bad timing Cave!

My cycle has gone mental .... I got my period 5 days early this month (I've only been that early 2x in my life, once at 13 years old and once when I used herbal TTC pills). But now I'm bleeding again? It appears to be ovulation bleeding (its my 'best' day even though I cant use it because of the HSG next week). I've NEVER ovulation bleed before. Any advice or words of wisdom hags? What's happening to my fango?!

OP posts:
TheRainDrops · 04/09/2015 17:17

A big 'fuck you' to any misbehaving ovaries/wombs right now. No sensible advice for you I'm afraid Blue, but it's not unheard of so shouldn't be of too much concern. Is it brownish rather than red? Can;t believe your clinic lost the spaff results but glad they've got them back now. Dicks!

cave did you make up for missing Weds night? Hopefully if HWHNN has been maintaining regular 'tube clearance' while ill/away you'll be all set!

Next week is going to be a killer - not doing too badly at avoiding symptom spotting etc. at the mo but I can feel the menkul approaching. Given our embies were only 'average' and this is our first go and I don't know WHY I am infertile, I would say my hopes are measured, at best. Hope you're feeling ok driz?

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