The Elderberry Pavlovas: Hanging up our fertility crystals, relaying the Yellow Brick Road and chasing that chopper. We want our BFPs and we want them now! (Thread 22)

[happylass]

The smallprint –
Berries have a strict entrance criteria (TTC #1, over 30, TTC for 12+ months, NO instadiffers, must have a special pot and definitely no mention of baby dust or baby dancing).
Those not abiding by the rules may be escorted from the premises.

Kitten, check the vitamin A content in your omega oil capsules. Too much vitamin A in pregnancy is dangerous.

Gil is it your scan tomorrow to see if you're downregged sufficiently?

Kitten yep we all totally rattle around! How are you doing?

It should have been tomorrow but AF hasn't come yet so need to go in once it appears. Away up north this weekend though so if it's not here early doors will be hoping that it doesn't tip up until Sunday. I think there's a bit of leeway as the next drugs I take thicken the endometrium and clearly you can't do that until you've gotten rid of the old lining.

Just because the lovely bushy asked here’s a quick and dirty summary of the book recommended by kuma ‘It Starts With The Egg’ by Rebecca Fett.

Disclaimer 1 - This is more or less what the book says as interpreted by me. I’m not saying if it’s right or wrong.
Disclaimer 2 - I am about £100 down from buying supplements after reading this book. You have been warned.

Author: has a degree in molecular biotechnology and biochemistry and has worked in genetics. Now works at a law firm where she analyses scientific and clinical evidence for biotech firms.

Theory: Egg quality can be affected by the environment the egg grows. You can improve egg quality by avoiding toxins and taking the right supplements. Some of this is not backed up by gold-standard clinical trials but the existing data and evidence does point towards particular supplements and if there is enough evidence that the supplements are safe then why not?

BPA / phthalates and other toxins - avoid these toxins which are found in plastics, till receipts, cleaning products and nail varnish. (I didn’t read these chapters as I know for a fact that I would end up even more menkul).

Prenatal multivits - take these. Folate is particularly important to prevent chromosomal errors and decrease an amino acid called homocysteine. B12 also helps with this. Antioxidants; vits A,C and E - not clear what they do for fertility but can’t hurt. Choose a good brand of vitamins.

Coenzyme Q10 - If you are going to take just one other thing for fertility then make it CoQ10. It’s a molecule in every cell in your body and helps make energy throughout the body by transferring electrons inside the mitochondria (aka: energy bits of the body cells). Age = damage to mitochondria so take CoQ10. Researchers in Italy found higher C0Q10 in follicles containing good-quality eggs. Ubiquinol version is more easily absorbed by the body and so you take less (100mg, 200mg 300mg - depending on how desperate your situation is).

Melatonin and antioxidants - if you are older, have PCOS or poor egg quality then antioxidants could help improve egg quality. Melatonin is proven to work but it is only really for IVF cases. Melatonin could disrupt ovulation if conceiving naturally. Other antioxidants not proven, but research is encouraging (Vit E, C alpha-lipoid acid)

Myo-inositol - could help in PCOS cases but use with caution if there is a history of mental illness.

DHEA - could help with diminished ovarian reserve. DHEA is a hormone precursor which helps the body produce some of the reproduction hormones. Research suggests it may help some IVFers increase quality and quantity of eggs produced. Only recommended for the tough cases; diminished ovarian reserve, over 40, poor responder. Used by many fertility clinics for the last 10 years or so, but no double-blind placebo-controlled trials so it is still classed as experimental rather than proven. Clinics use 25mg x 3 per day - if you’re not sure about using it then try just 25mg x1 per day.

Possibly harmful - pine bark / pycnogenol, the compounds are not naturally found in the body. Royal jelly - no proper research, allergens, the chemicals act like hormones and so the effects may be unpredictable. L’arginine - trials suggested it made ovaries/ uterus (not sure) more permeable which allowed hormones to get in too early leading to quick and variable follicle growth.

Mediterranean diet - eat this; sugar, wheat, carbohydrates = insulin = bad etc…

Sperm - you will need this to make a baby. Do not take orally, that’s pointless. Multi-vits to get A,C,E selenium, zinc, folic acid - antioxidants are important. If it’s really bad then add CoQ10. Antioxidants + Coq10 + B12 was found to improve all aspects of sperm and also the integrity of DNA.

gillster thanks for the heads up, will check. Am taking pregnacare plus with the omega 3 oil capsules as I'm veggie so thought I could use the boost.

beaky I Am Knackered! Hehe.. not sleeping well, seem to wake up every hour for no reason. Might be because my baps are sore but not sure. Going to my SIL's baby shower in Wales tomorrow and am being given a lift with the in-laws. They want to get there bit early to avoid rush hour traffic, so they want us to leave at 7am. For an hour's drive. To get to a 12:30 party. FML.

Kitten Ha what on earth?? That is not good for a Saturday. And boo to the sore baps.

Wild Nail farnish? Nooooooo! But I have an addiction to it. Argh more menkul. But do you think it's a similar thing to memory phone mattresses causing infertility though? not scaremongering again honest but otherwise thanks for the brief but comprehensive overview! Will definitely start necking c0q10 too! rattles off to H&B AGAIN

Gill fx it holds off a little then, are your fx open over the weekend?

beaky it is exactly like the memory foam thing in this sense: I'm going to completely ignore it.

Nail varnish? Hell no! No no no no no noooooo

Wow marmalade or should I say 'amazeballs' which has got into the oxford online dictionary!! Thanks for that. I think one has to take these things with a pinch of salt. Personally I found taking royal jelly and co enzyme 100mg tesco helped my egg quality. It was good to see the dosage was between 100-300mg. Lumen's 600g scared me, I'd have to pop 6 of mine a day.The h&b ones are sooo expensive!! Also nail varnish- stuff that!!

Currently have the most painful cramp I've had in ages and for me tonight! But at least tomorrow I can ring for a scan appointment to start iui!

No ones taking my nail varnish away from me! . I have been taking folic acid (400) + Vit d, 30mg co q10 (so totally pointlessly low dose then!) and royal jelly, which I might now ditch after reading wilds précis of that book (I especially liked the reminder r.e. Sperm, maybe that's where I've been going wrong....).
I found CoQ10 for major cheaps at Simply Supplements. 120 tablets at 300mg for £34, which is the same as H&Bs 30 x 100mg tablets! Why the eff are H&B so bloody expensive?

Ps YAY beaky!!!!

beaky sorry about AF, but good to hear you can start your iui.

Wild great summary! Re the CoQ10, I take 600mg - the H&B COQ10 is ubiquinone which is the less bioavailable form. The book says 100-200 is fine for those without prior issues though. I'd rather be safe and broke than sorry given my low ovarian reserve and failed IVF!

I had my first proper acu this morning, she didn't recommend any other supplements or herbs, which is good for the bank account. I've got another 3 appointments this cycle, concentrating on extending my luteal phase and keeping my temps up.

I think the nail varnish thing is about BPA - which is very similar in structure to estrogen and found in nail varnish, and perfumed products, it is also a bi-product of the petrochemical industry. Another interesting book if you are into popular science and don't fancy reading about TTC for a change is 'Breasts - a Natural and Unnatural History'.

Kitten rather than take omega 3, I think you can take evening primrose. Although there are various comments against taking it after ovulation too!

Hmm am I mad, have just watched 'in the club'.. Maybe I am self flagellating but actually was quite a good drama.

Had a mini meltdown earlier. Just felt really flat today, then had school holidays nearer end than beginning realisation, coupled with realisation that all the holiday jobs, genning up on stuff, reading the mindfulness book etc that I'd planned to do round the house I hadn't done and started to beat myself up about how crap I am, negative spiral Yada Yada Yada. I think I really do need to read the mindfulness book to stop this happening to me. Whenever I have a bit of a wobble I just become really negative and then criticise myself for every little insecurity.

Amazeballs indeed bushy! wild cheers for the potted summary of the book. I think we could drive ourselves barmy avoiding everything in the off chance it is contributing to fertility issues. God I envy the people who don't have to go through this shite.

I am slightly bewildered by the supplement choices. I also have started coQ10, and take extra b6, magnesium and omega 3/6/9 with pregnacare.

kitten lol at sore baps, although seriously hope you're not feeling too bad.

beaky for you and fingers crossed for you being able to start iui. Glad you are feeling more positive!

I am feeling like a hideous version of myself - have had a mega spot breakout, which rarely happens. Not sure what is causing it, maybe the weekend indulgence coming back to haunt me! Also wondering whether the royal jelly is at fault after reading the info on here...always felt a bit iffy about it as have a bit of a phobia of bees!

X post bushy. What you just described sounds so familiar! Don't beat yourself up. There is still lots of time left in the holidays to do stuff too, so don't be too hard on yourself. Also the most important job is taking care of you, and to do that you need to relax and take it easy. Big hug x

Yup with epo some say you should take up to ov but not past that ,as not good once conceived so I just take when af is here and stop when a bit cm-y iykwim. Tesco do 1000 mg epo in big jar.

I think we wouldn't do anything if we wanted to avoid everything that is a potential health difficulty. Remember all the wacky baccy, vodka swilling hedonists get pg like falling off a log... So that's what we need to do: 500 ml of vodka and a big spliff!!

Thank you tiger x lol to your phobia of bees and royal jelly.

Haha do true bushy, all we needed to do was go have a drunken one night stand abroad! Grrrr haha!

kuma ooh thanks for the tip love, will go on a supplement rampage tomorrow.

Nah doing alright at the mo thanks tiger, just sleeping badly and a bloated but strangely appetite-free nipple worrier. I'm officially horrible at breast spacial awareness - keep sideswiping things painfully, also I got my nipple square in the eye with the shower jet tonight and screamed bloody murder. Derp.

In defence of royal jelly natural-fertility-info.com/royal-jelly.html. This does say if you're allergic to avoid any bee products which makes sense.

Sounds ouchy kitten

I tried soy isoflavones after about six months of TTC because I thought I probably had PCOS and it is known as nature's Clomid. Didn't work for me!

Wildflower - not take sperm orally so that's what I've been going wrong!

bushy do not beat yourself up about anything. Lie on the sofa reading your mindfulness book, that's the very most you should be doing.

tiger you are so right that we would go barmy if we avoided everything which had ever been linked to fertility issues. One must be sensible and keep a sense of proportion.

With regard to royal jelly - it obviously has an effect, but it seems that no one is quite sure what the effect is. It might be a very good effect. I personally have decided not to take it because I am very wary if anything which might interfere with the thyroxine that I take for underactive thyroid. I need the thyroxine to work in order to simply function, so that takes priority and I wouldn't risk taking anything which might affect it.

Oh my goodness so many posts! I can't keep up.
Loved the comment regarding sperm though, ha ha!

Thanks for the detailed overview of what that book says. I'd done some googling on the book hoping I would find a review that told me everything without having to go out and buy it myself (I am so lazy/tight!!) and was about to see if the local library had a copy (highly unlikely, not sure if it's an Australian wide thing or just my local one but the books there are all about 20years old and so is only any good for updating all those classics we should have read by now).

However, it is quite a long and scary list. I am currently only taking a centrum 'before and during pregnancy care' (I stocked up on my last visit home, they don't stock it here, and the Aussie equivalents are 4 times the size and repeat on you like anything, grossly gross), which has 400mg(micro/mili?) of frolic acid, and no vitamin A (I thought it was essential to avoid vitamin A when ttc? No mention of coQ10. Might have to see if I can find that here, as it sounded a good one to take without any potential issues. The DHEA thing though... What does that even stand for? I have never heard of it. V interesting to hear that it's not recommended if you have endo though, as my doctor still reckons I have that so I should probably avoid until they rule it out.

I have put some BFP progression pictures on my profile.

Smidge frolic acid sounds like fun.
Interesting about melatonin in that book summary. I don't know if you can buy that OTC in the UK but I bought some 10 years ago in Australia, it helped me to sleep during the day when on night shifts.