The Elderberry Pavlovas are tooling up and making plans to bust out of this joint! Evacuation by helicopter by end of September, no berry left behind!

[barkingtreefrog]

The smallprint –
Berries have a strict entrance criteria (TTC #1, over 30, TTC for 12+ months, NO instadiffers, must have a special pot and definitely no mention of baby dust or baby dancing).
Those not abiding by the rules may be escorted from the premises.

Funky a false neg is surely more likely than a false positive? Can you try again using the same brand of test as the weekend, i.e. not a digi?

Let us know what the clinic says.

Oh no, funky. Extra stress and worry - just what you need right now. won't it be too early for a scan? (forgive my ignorance). It's still really early days. COuld it be FN unless you get any bleeding…? So sorry.

Re tests everyone else, I had a chat with OH last night who was wondering why I was playing with my phone at midnight so I explained we were chatting about tests. He's a dr, and has quite a different take on all this than we do with our heads in the 'why can't they just DO something' space. He said you'd only be given the diagnosis 'unexplained' when the clinic feels they've exhausted all the relevant tests for you, and that jus because other people have different tests doesn't mean they'd give you any extra information - they may just be irrelevant to your situation.

So I said that there was obviously a postcode lottery/drs vary in interest and quality etc which he said was true but tended to operate at an intervention level - so, number of rounds of IUI.IVF - rather than at the tests-offered level. He also said it was unethical to offer tests which there are no treatment plans for.

BAscially he blames the USA because private medicine tends towards over-investigation (because they can get paid) and untested treatment and that although they may get results, we don't know why and it's best to stick to things we know work.

I think it's particuarly problematic in areas like fertility medicine because people are very vulnerable and want answers - but we have to remember that there might not BE answers, or the answer might be 'we dont know' or 'it's just bad luck'.

Anyway - thought I'd share with you all to see what you thought. I've personaly had an hsg, internal and external scans, day 21 progesterone, and other bloods (thyroixine, FSH, AMH, LH, testosterone). That's the lot I think.

forgot to say sorry about AF on holiday beaky

How worrying Funky. Can't offer any additional advice to what has already been said. Sorry for DH's grandma too. Here for handholding.

funky have you tried with a FRER? I don't trust those digis at all. Sincerely hoping you just got a duff test.

nolly that is an interesting perspective from your DH. I do agree that the practices of US healthcare can't be translated to our system but I can't see how unexplained can ever be a diagnosis. There obviously is a reason so many of us can't get diffed, it just hasn't been found yet and surely it's only by trying things out that progress will be made?
Hard to be objective about it tho when you're in the middle of it!

otters take as many pitchforks as you need. What a total pain. Welcome to the world of unexplained!

Repeating what everyone else is saying funky. Here for support and hand holding. Sorry you're going through this, and agree with everyone saying to retest with a non-digi. Xxx

rain yeah I agree - feels like there must be a reason (month 21 coming up here FFS!). I can see his point too though - especially when he's on the receiving end from stroppy parents saying 'why haven't you scanned darling jimmy's ankle' , well because there's evidence to show that it's not necessary in 99% cases.

it seems likely that each of us unexplained would have a different reason as well, which means it's hard to do research on treatments. but yes, totally agree. I don't know if I'm being paranoid about this but it feels like fertility really isn't a priority for researchers. like the menopause. If it happened to blokes…?

Any news Lumen? Will ET be today or Saturday?

Just to add to the unexplained debate, I find it particularly tough as I swing wildly between 'there's nothing fundamentally wrong and it could totally happen' and 'medical science can't find the problem'. It has helped my mindset so much by going to acu, where I have also discussed my luteal phase, bbt charts and FC results as well as addressing issues more personal to me like stress and a tendency to anxiety and overplanning everything. Ditto my catching rainbows plan. I am reading the mind body fertility connection by James Schwartz and would recommend it. Even if it is all bollox, if i feel happier and calmer whilst going through this ttc shite then it will have been some benefit.

As my acu lady. who has spent years getting people pg says, it does just take some people longer. She also has hundreds of stories of the type that suggest as soon as you take the pressure off, it happens.

nolly agree with your dh re the American consumer approach to healthcare.

rain how did it go? Hoping you got some answers.

funky hope you're ok. You too barking

Waves back at otters! Hope you have a fab hen.

lumen when are the embies boarding the mothership? Hope you've enjoyed your week with dh.

tiger it's not til next Tuesday! thus a perfect example of how I also share your tendency to anxiety and overplanning everything
I am really looking forward to my first acu session on the 5th now, in my head it's going to be akin to a lovely spa type treatment where I can zone out and just relax.
I've also promised myself that from this weekend I am going to get back on my Rainbow plan as i've been really bad the last couple of months.

Rain, have you had your thyroid (TSH) checked?

I had mine checked ages ago while under NHS care, and the result was at the high end of the 'normal' range of 0.5-5 (I was 4.83) and nothing more was said.

However, the private FC checked again (result was about the same) and has put me straight onto thyroxine.
They've said that high TSH (which indicates an underactive thyroid) is strongly linked to poor implantation and increased risk of miscarriage.

I brought this up with my GP who said they wouldn't budge from the NHS 'normal is 0.5-5 and we wont listen to anyone who thinks otherwise' position, but the FC want me to be at 2.5 before we can start our IVF, although they'll let us do the cycle if it gets to 3.
Dr Google says there is a growing amount of evidence to say the normal range should be redrawn to 0.3-3 instead, and the US seem to take it as a more serious part of fertility.

I clearly was hypoactive, because since starting the tablets, I feel SO much better and awake. It is like I'm getting an extra 3 hours sleep per night, it has made such a difference to me!

spare I did, bloody ages ago right when we started ttc as my Dad has hypothyroidism and my older sister has Hashimotos. I don't recall the result other than it being 'normal' and just called my GP to see if they can fish out a copy of the test results but they don't keep anything going back further than September last year!!??! That seems odd to me, is that normal not to keep test results?!
I guess I'd need a new test now anyway as that was so long ago, but will definitely be sure to raise that next week. Thanks!

That is only 9 months ago! Surely the tests form a part of your medical record and have to be kept?
Mine were done in 2010 and 2011, and when I went in, the doctor pulled them straight up on screen and printed out a copy for me to email to the FC. Any my GP is pretty crap!

rain that doesn't sound right. they should have your whole record going back to birth, if you've been in the UK!

the whole thyroxine thing is interesting. My TSH is 2.8 which is also considered by some (private) clinics to be on the high side. But then, who knows what all those bastard lucky instadiffers have, as they're never measured. Ditto PCOS.

funky how're you doing now?

Ps barking how're things with you? coming to an end I hope?

the bleeding i mean. not your life!!!

nolly, spare - exactly what I thought! I only spoke to the receptionist, I guess she doesn't have the same access privileges as my GP would. I don't think there's time to get an appt between now and the FC appointment but I might try phoning again tomorrow.
In the meantime, MrP called for his SA results - they've come back 'incomplete'. No idea what that means, but sounds like it's another irritating obstacle that will need further phone calls to resolve. Bah. Sorry for all the me, me, me centric posts today.

funky, barking, kuma and gil I hope you're all OK this afternoon.

Funky I really hope you're ok and it was a stupid duff test. What did the clinic say? Also so sorry to hear about your dh's gran.

Otters I'm on my way with the pitchfork! I hope you enjoy your hen and the diffed ones keep a low profile.

Nolly I totally get what your dh says it makes sense and actually when I think about my job, a lot of the time the focus is to solve the problem in the short term which is essentially what the NHS are doing with clomid then IVF. I think we do have a massive issue with reactive care rather than proactive in the uk. I'd love to know what's wrong with me and like you Tiger and Rain I'm a planner etc so it really stresses me out when thinks don't go to plan. But I do also swing to right, crack on with IVF to get there quicker.

Rain they have a legal obligation to keep your recs, that is def not correct but ask for a new up to date thyroid check anyway since it can change.

Thanks Nolly Im easing the pain with plenty of wine and cocktails

Barking how are you doing?

funky have you tested again? .

otters thanks, I'm assuming it will be thrombophilia, autoimmune and thyroid problems, having googled/trawled mn mc threads obsessively over the last few days. I will be asking again at the clinic and booking a gp appointment if I get no luck.
Hope you have a good hen do - ignore the diffedness as much as possible. I had a big bump at my hen do but she knew my situation and was very discreet about it -as much as you can be discreet about a massive bump--.

nolly very good points from your DH, something to ponder over. I'm leaning towards hassling for the routine tests above but not straying into the nk cells testing unless we get nowhere with the last two rounds of IUI and we're facing our last chance IVF.

rain sorry about your frustration with the gp, hope you get some answers next week.

lumen any news on ET?

I've been lying low because having told the counsellor I was 'coping much better this time' I crumpled into a heap as soon as I came out. As DH said, maybe I'd just been bottling it all up and talking to the counsellor opened the floodgates . I wept most of yesterday, DH came home, took one look at me and cancelled his evening plans to stay in with me as it was pretty clear I wouldn't be able to go on the planned bike ride I had set my heart on. I'm now on day 7 of bleeding and it's still enough that I can feel it coming out, still passing clots. I burst into tears at work this morning and came home at lunchtime. I'm absolutely exhausted and totally unable to do anything that would cheer me up. DH is away on a stag do this weekend and one of the other wives has already sent a message round everyone asking about meeting up for a ride/walk/lunch/ etc. I want to reply to all and say "put me down for anything that won't involve the pregnant ones or have babies along" but that's a little aggressive.... I don't want to turn up to anything and have a bump or baby sprung on my unexpectedly though, and I was hoping for the bike ride but I've got two days to be able to get off the sofa never mind onto a bike . I'm scared about being on my own this weekend as even if I can keep busy without being ambushed by the babied or bumped, I still have the nights on my own. I was supposed to be going away to see a friend but can't face the long drive while I feel like this. We'd already booked the dog in with friends so I don't even have the dog for company - their kids are really looking forward to having him and wanted him to stay anyway after we said it wasn't needed anymore so I didn't have the heart to say I wanted to keep the dog.

Sorry, being very me me me and splurge posting. This is why I've been staying away .

don't worry about splurging barking. we're all worried about you so it's good to have the updates. SOrry you're still feeling so rubbish physically. I find normal AF totally draining so I'm sure tthe levels of tiredness and pain you must be going through are much worse. Have you tried going to little rides? I often dread it because i am a lazy toad but once you get going it's easy to forget about other worries…

Counselling can often have that delayed reaction I think - almost like admitting to yourself that you feel terrible makes it worse. But there's no shame in it. Did she say anything helpful?

otters hope you have fun tomorrow and that the diffedness doesn't get to you. It'll be your day.

I'm waiting for AF to turn up tomorrow. On DH's birthday :(

nolly I'm struggling to even get off the sofa never mind onto a bike. Still got cramps as well as bleeding and feeling exhausted. Every time I lie down I fall asleep. Dragging myself out for dinner tonight - it's a regular last Thursday of the month event with DH's colleagues.

Barking practical question - are you getting enough iron? I have never been anaemic but one of my sisters is and she feels v v tired and weepy when she is low. obviously you have much bigger reasons than iron levels for feeling the way you do, but I wonder if all the loss is depleting you and it might make sense to stock up?

I'm so sorry about how drawn out this is.

I was wondering that myself nolly. I was going to ask at the scan tomorrow whether it would be advisable to take a yet another supplement for a bit. I'm not sure whether I'd get enough through food if my levels were depleted.

Sorry, meant to reply to rp.

Having read this it seems I'm already eating a lot of the things high in iron.