Karma's a load of old shite! The BESH have gone through a fair old heap of bollocks lately so it's time we had some good news!

[Fabuluce]

In order to join the BESH you MUST be over 30 and TTC for baybee no. 1 for over a year, be ok with swearing, shout CUNT at the world on a daily basis and howling at the moon should be a regular occurrence. BESHtionnaires must be submitted - no admittance allowed without it (we just want to snigger at your lesbian crush - it's true).

Revised BESHtionnare for reference

1. Do you like gin? (This is compulsory, you must say 'Yes')

2. Men - are you a gold digger or a cradle snatching cougar?

3. Baybee-making - to put a baybee in your tumtum, which hole do you use:
   a) weewee
   b) poopoo
   c) foofoo
   d) none, you just pray to the baby Jebus.

4. Testing - when someone wonders if they should test for updiff (pg), do you:
   a) bellow 'POAS!' at them non-stop and punch them repeatedly in the kidneys till they wet themselves anyway.
   b) Sprinkle them with babydust and send them hugs and kisses on lickle baby angel wings.

5. Is R2D2:
   a) an adorable robot from Star Wars.
   b) the source of all evil.

6. Number of pets?

7. Inappropriate (read: weird) crush of shame?

8. Lesbian crush?

9. How much money have you spent on sticks you then urinate on?
   a) Oh nothing, I'll probably catch first time and then get the doctor to confirm it.
   b) Over 100 quid
   c) I opened an account on ebay solely for the purpose of purchasing sticks

10. Which of these sentences is appalling:
    a) Off to see the consultant today!!! So excited!!!!!
    b) Gud luck hun sprinkling babydust for ya lol xxx
    c) both of the above

11. How barren are you?
    a) childless and TTC for at least one year
    b) one child and TTC #2 for at least two years
    c) I've been trying for 2 cycles and the wait is driving me mad!

If (c) then the BESH is not the thread for you.

I haven't got an apt for a clinic hobbsy, just a letter and a list of tests. I just have to go to the walk-in blood sample clinic thingy within 5 days of the start of my next period. Then I suppose the consultant will make an appt to talk to me about the results.

Good news about your date! Great that you don't have to wait around.

Dishes - you're doing brilliantly! And you don't seem to be on the slippery slope if you're aware that you might be drinking too much, and to be honest with your history you're idea of "too much" will be much less than anyone else's! Give yourself some credit!

As for the woo bollocks, I went to try and help relax which I am pathologically unable to do, had my last one stuck I may have sung it's praises, but, meh!

I am firmly back in the hands of science and medicine!

Cheers you're right of course. Thanks for dragging me out of the panic pit.

When you're already feeling wobbly and uncertain, you just start to worry about everything. Like everything would be OK if I could just do better.

I've got to hold onto the fact that there's nothing I can do right now, and what happened isn't because I wasn't healthy enough, or eating the right things, or doing whatever; it was something outside of my control. You know what it's like though, when there's no explanation you turn inwards and start blaming yourself.

I do get trying the woo to help relax (I'm not that great at it either ). And I know it helps give you back a feeling of having a choice and some kind of control over a process which robs you of all that. I don't want to scoff at it, it just - erm - triggered me a bit

Would you care for a gurnard of gratitude?

[gri

Sorry Dishes - I know woo isn't for everyone. It wouldn't normally be for me either, but I don't know what else I can do while I'm in NHS limbo. I feel like my normal level of rationality is slowly declining - TTC makes us all a little bit mad, eh?

I do love this quote from Dara O'Briain on herbal medicine though:

"I'm sorry, 'herbal medicine', "Oh, herbal medicine's been around for thousands of years!" Indeed it has, and then we tested it all, and the stuff that worked became 'medicine'. And the rest of it is just a nice bowl of soup and some potpourri, so knock yourselves out."

Howdy Hags

YES- what Fab said about being kind to yourself....we need to be doing that. Not blaming ourselves. It's NOT OUR FAULT! Just fucking bad luck. Dishes- really sorry that you're feeling down. It's understandable and completely ok- it's also ok to fall off the wagon a bit. Having alcoholism in your family doesn't mean it will happen to you. I think there are a LOT of people who drink a bottle of wine a night without thinking anything of it. At least you're acknowledging there could be a tipping point and I am sure you won't reach it. Just be kind to yourself, allow yourself to mope if you feel like it, allow yourself to drink a bit too if you feel like it.

MissH and Cunty - I didn't have any symptoms of endo. Just what I would class as normal pain/ cramp really. Although ttc makes you totally analyse every single twinge so I did start to notice a pattern of mid cycle pain, which is apparently a symptom. But you can have endo without necessarily having symptoms. With checking out perhaps Cunty.

I do feel a bit fobbed off tbh. All of a sudden my mild endo is the cause of my infertility. At first I thought great, now I know what's wrong. But the more I think about it the more I think it really is unexplained and there's no apparent reason why I'm not getting diffed. Again just rotten luck. There must be an element of luck in it.

And as far as I'm aware clomid can slightly improve the chance of conception in ladies who ov naturally- according to a study my FC quoted. Whatevs.

I think I may ovulate today...and MG is going to get himself back to me tonight instead of tomorrow. Hurrah! I won't see him until about midnight though so hope it's not too late. Fucking clomid delaying my ov! Nasty shit.

I feel there was a lot of swearing there. Too much? Nah, didn't think so.

Parsley- bloody hilarious re your other half's sleep groping!

Oh and Cunty- I think I was already being referred for treatment because it's been over 2 years of unsuccessful ttc. God knows where I'd be now if I'd got diffed and suffered another miscarriage. Doesn't bear thinking about. I really truly feel for those of you who've been through more than one mc.

ach cunty, don't apologise. I'm just a bit arsy at the mo. I totally understand wanting to try whatever you can. I've had a my moments myself - I once went for colonic irrigation (yeah, I know) with a friend of mine who had IBS and was desperate to see if it would help.

We were sent to the waiting area with forms to fill out - my friend read aloud 'Do you have any problems with eating?' and responded 'Yeah, sometimes I can't get both halves of the Mars bar into my mouth at once,' at which point we fell about laughing. Minutes later the Poo Lady emerged from a door right next to where we had been waiting, from where she had obviously heard us ridiculing her profession. Then she stuck a pipe up my bum. Good times.

I like Ben Goldacre on alternative medicine: 'Do you know what they call alternative medicine that works? Medicine'

There's a lot to be said for feeling looked after though. We all need it, and it does a hell of a lot for your health and happiness regardless of what the treatment is.

Cheers fankle. I'm not up to a bottle of wine a night yet. The fear won't let me get there. The fucker's useful for something, at least. BTW, a bottle of wine a night is 63 units a week. Once you start properly counting them, it's terrifying

Good luck with the midnight shagging!

I love that my user name makes grown women snigger!

Fankle - I think I will make a doctors appointment to get checked out if we don't have any luck this cycle. I've been getting a lot of mid-cycle pain, which I've previously written off as either normal or just me being hyper sensitive to every little twinge since starting ttc. I have other more worrying symptoms though (definitely tmi!). I can understand how you might be feeling fobbed off about this suddenly being a reason - it does sound a bit simple, if that makes sense.

Fab - I'm also trying to improve my diet, both for general health and fertility. It would seem that a diet of crisps and chocolate biscuits is not the best foundation for making a baybee! I also read somewhere (now lost the link among the millions of fertility related articles I've been reading) about insulin spikes from sugar and high GI food wreaking havoc with various hormonal systems. I'll have a dig around for some reliable information.

MissH - How was lunch? I hope it wasn't too stressful for you!

Lunch was great! I explained that I felt left out and that she seemed to be "protecting" me by keeping me at a distance and lying about stuff and that she shouldn't do that! I'd told her that right at the beginning! She admitted that she had been and was actually feeling quite lonely and missed talking to me! We make a right pair!

I cried! She cried! Then we both felt better! There is much to be said for just saying stuff that's bothering you rather then bottling it up! This I have only learned in the last few months after over a year of therapy!

I am SO happy for her, and her tiny squishy win! Now we've got the awkward stuff out of the way I'm excited for meeting him when he's here and in the meantime actually hearing about her pregnancy etc! I'm so sad she didn't tell me about anything up to now, good or bad, as she didn't want to "rub my face in it" when I'd "kill to feel that". And I thought she was pushing me out/away by not telling on purpose! Argh! We're fucked up! She had a 4D scan with Groupon so I got to see his little face!

fankle the consultant I saw at CRGH wrote "primary and secondary infertility" on my notes, due to the mc. It made me feel extra-specially infertile.

parsley I had the scratch with the 4th round of IVF. I'm not sure if that is what made the difference.

dishy I hope you are holding up ok. I fell well and truly off the wagon for a while after my mc and my 3rd IVF failure.

missh that's efficient!

Welcome Cunty. I'm euro. 38 (eek). Married to KFZK (kung fu zombie killa, for past and present hobbies). Unexplained infertility. Currently nervously diffed after 3 years ttc including 2xIUI, 4xIVF and an mc. I loved a bit of acu woo while we were ttc. If nothing else, it let me feel that I was doing something.

I had my 20 week scan this week (can't believe I have reached that point). Baybee looked good, which is great. However, there is a question mark over blood flow to the placenta which googling tells me can lead to pre-eclampsia and tiny baybees. I feel like I overcome one hurdle and find another. Why couldn't I just fall on a cock and after a worry-free 9 months produce a healthy baybee, eh? I am very grateful to have got this far but would love an easy ride for a while.

Woah hags, sorry missing in action this last week thanks to working for a living unreasonably long hours thanks to my batshit crazy week and an attempt to fit two weeks work into four days. Made it! Nine whole days off now though, fucking hurrah!

Doffs cap at cunty - welcome to the coven. I'm cherry, 34, TTC Aug 2012, certified barren, diagnosed prem ovarian failure 12 months ago. Married to ROCH (rock of coconut household), waiting for DEIVF. Lover of woo (soz dishy!)

Go easy missH, love it when you get a good chat in with a mate.
Fish wallops Fankle

Good to see you checking in on us Euro. 20 weeks, wowzers! Sorry you have extra menkulling to do though. Happy healthy halibut thoughts coming your way. Have you graduated to bumpdom yet from inbetweener stage?

Bloody hell euro if anyone deserves an easy ride it should be you! Sorry you have this extra level of worry, but glad that the little bean is ok! Will you get extra monitoring etc?

miss h well done for surviving the lunch! It's a strange kind of double-think when you can be sad for yourself but happy for others; 'tis good when you can manage it.

dishy don't beat yourself up! A 'rebound' effect is totally normal so don't add to things with guilt too.

AFM I have been offered a new job! A sideways move but a fair amount more money than I'm currently on. Feels good to know there's one thing I can succeed at I have te bank holiday to think it over. Am very excited!

Oh yes, and I'm with you on the definitions. 'subfertility' was bad enough but ticking the box marked 'absolute infertility' really underlined the point!

Sub fertility; absolute infertility? Are these definitions for real? How to make yourself feel like shit in one easy step.... I prefer barren. Or in horse breeding terms, yeld mare, no foal at foot. Are they trying to crush our spirit?

Congrats on the job offer though you career hot diggety dawg you. Nice work my brainy Fiz friend.

Wow Euro - 20 weeks! That is awesome!! hope everything continues smoothly for the little one.

Fizz - congrats on the job offer - whoop whoop . Are you going to take it??

Ps I love a bit of needles woo and on special occasions some talking woo too

Thanks all. Yes, the sonographer recommended extra scans. I will see what the mw says about it in a couple of days. And yes, I do have a preggo bump rather than just a disappearing waist now. And something very close to an outie belly button.

cherry I quite like yeld mare...

fizz well done on the job offer. Will you take it? Is it in the same organisation or somewhere new?

fab I have some talking woo on my iPod. I mainly find it useful on nights where I can't get to sleep, it's very reeelaaaaxxxxing.

fizz you clever thing! Wotcha gonna do?

cherry what's the process like for DEIVF? A friend of mine is currently 7 months diffed with her DEIVF baybee, she had it all done in sunny Spain. I've been wondering (semi idly) about looking into egg sharing (assuming mine are any good, although basic tests suggest they are), something else to find out about in July I guess.

euro another milestone reached! Did you sneak a peek at baby's bits? Hopefully you'll get monitored like a hawk now which will help you stress less (!!?!!??)

cletter bum pipes! What was it like? Did it make you feel 'clean' or just dirty?

MissH glad you managed to clear the air there. Being able to feel happy for your friend is a big thing and it will def help you knowing you can talk to her about stuff again now. I had the exact same with my bestie last year, who is now proud mum to a gorgeous 3m bundle of chubby cheeks and legs!

Lost abysmally at squash, but it was good fun! Did not however manage to lure the metal twat out of hiding. I keep thinking it's starting only to find it's not, total knicker watch obsession . FF predicts today/tomorrow.

This fred really is no holds barred on the detail, how could we even have let your confession of the irrigational variety slip away so uncelebrated dishy. So, erm, what Pars said...? More deets required please.

Sharing the outie belly button with you euro these baybees come at a hefty price to our mind and bodies. It's just one big fuckup. Hopefully worth it when I get my IVF TWINZ win

I've come for a small man folk moan... It turns out yesterday ROCH got a jizz test letter out of the blue from FC. We ain't stepped foot in there since being signed off to proceed with DEIVF in September while waiting not so patiently for a donor. To me this is mega exciting and has reawakened the dozing menkul bigstylee. It means things could be warming up for us and they're making sure all is well with bells and whistles to go full steam ahead with a green light to the chemistry set baybee making facilities.

To ROCH this means someone's made a massive cock up, they've contacted the wrong person, he doesn't want to cum in a pot in a grimy room over a well thumbed municipal copy of Big Tits and Tidy Lady Gardens, thank you very much. He doesn't want to ring and sort it out till next week either to see which of us is right. Grrr.

Am I massively getting carried away or what? Please send fish slaps and BESHLY advice to make me see sense. BTW I know the clinic is open today because I stalk some ladies on another forum who are in there today making there own baybees. God it sounds like a paint your own pottery outing but there you go.

cherry tell ROCH to man the fuck up. And reiterate, with diagrams if necessary, exactly what it is you have to go through in this process! One small wank and he thinks he's entitled to whinge?

When GFBW had to jiap for testing purposes, he was able to do it at home and just drop it off at the clinic. Might that be possible for ROCH?

Thanks for the job congrats . I'm not 100% sure but I think I'm going to go for it! I've been at my current employer for 10 years (eep!) so it feels like quite a big deal.

Yo Pars, knowing what I know now I think egg share is an amazing thing to do for someone so full respect if you decide to go that route. Basically it's IVF as normal for the donor, just that after collection the haul is shared between you and a recipient that you've been pre matched with for certain characteristics. An agreement details things like how they're shared so it's done fairly but weighted slightly to the donor if there are fewer eggs or variable quality.

The matching is done on basic physical appearance and a couple of lines on education, hobbies etc. the donation is anonymous but the child has the option to get in contact at the age of 16.

It's the DEIVF couple who pay all the treatment costs of both couples which is what makes it an attractive proposition.

I still can't make him call up though Fizz which is the frustrating bit! Pfft!

How would the job move impact you other than financially? Would they be good to work for? Any longer hours? Is it higher stress? I guess these are the sort of questions that might make me think twice. I did similar a few years ago, took a punt and left a job I absolutely adored for an all but sideways move. In the field I'm in it's dead men's shoes so you have to take the opportunities that come up. I agonised for ages but in balance I'm glad I did as it's given me some amazing experiences. It would have been easy to stay but then I'd always have been thinking 'what if'.

parsley we opted not to find out the sex, but my instinct has said girl for ages and I think I might have spotted three lines during one of centime's somersaults during the scan but I'm not completely sure.

cherry I hear you. I've always worked hard to maintain a decent bod. But it'll all be worth it...

Can you call the clinic to ask? And can you convince him that he will want to do a warm up now so he knows what it is like before he has to do the one to fertilise the eggs the nice laydee has laid for you?

fizz dare I ask if you have good mat benefits where you are? Most places that offer an enhanced package require you to be there for at least one year or more commonly two before you are entitled to it. It might be something to factor in.