Karma's a load of old shite! The BESH have gone through a fair old heap of bollocks lately so it's time we had some good news!

[Fabuluce]

In order to join the BESH you MUST be over 30 and TTC for baybee no. 1 for over a year, be ok with swearing, shout CUNT at the world on a daily basis and howling at the moon should be a regular occurrence. BESHtionnaires must be submitted - no admittance allowed without it (we just want to snigger at your lesbian crush - it's true).

Revised BESHtionnare for reference

1. Do you like gin? (This is compulsory, you must say 'Yes')

2. Men - are you a gold digger or a cradle snatching cougar?

3. Baybee-making - to put a baybee in your tumtum, which hole do you use:
   a) weewee
   b) poopoo
   c) foofoo
   d) none, you just pray to the baby Jebus.

4. Testing - when someone wonders if they should test for updiff (pg), do you:
   a) bellow 'POAS!' at them non-stop and punch them repeatedly in the kidneys till they wet themselves anyway.
   b) Sprinkle them with babydust and send them hugs and kisses on lickle baby angel wings.

5. Is R2D2:
   a) an adorable robot from Star Wars.
   b) the source of all evil.

6. Number of pets?

7. Inappropriate (read: weird) crush of shame?

8. Lesbian crush?

9. How much money have you spent on sticks you then urinate on?
   a) Oh nothing, I'll probably catch first time and then get the doctor to confirm it.
   b) Over 100 quid
   c) I opened an account on ebay solely for the purpose of purchasing sticks

10. Which of these sentences is appalling:
    a) Off to see the consultant today!!! So excited!!!!!
    b) Gud luck hun sprinkling babydust for ya lol xxx
    c) both of the above

11. How barren are you?
    a) childless and TTC for at least one year
    b) one child and TTC #2 for at least two years
    c) I've been trying for 2 cycles and the wait is driving me mad!

If (c) then the BESH is not the thread for you.

Welcome Cunty! My hubby is MG (my geek) as he is a brainy nerd.

Parsley, I had to disassociate the word 'secretions' whilst eating the jelly otherwise I would've gagged. Just thought of happy childhood days, birthday parties and ice cream and jelly instead.

MissH - glad you made it through your family visit. Your in-laws sound very lovely and supportive of you. I'm lucky with my in-laws too...although FIL's illness is a big worry at the moment. Will see them all at Easter so looking forward to that.

I don't understand why the term secondary infertility was used on my notes. It only said that on my theatre admissions form (I got the blue copy but could still read the faint writing). Must have been an error cos as far as I know, prolonged infertility after a miscarriage does not mean secondary infertility. But I am no expert. I just want a baybee FFS!

No sign of ov yet... Think have missed the boat this month.

Never mind how the fish thing started then; it's kooky and I like it!

Shoot me, meeting instadiffer for lunch on Thursday, made the mistake of looking at her Amazon wishlist, it's already full of cute outfits and hugely expensive buggy and toys I'll never be so optimistic, never have excited family looking forward to a new arrival and buying things. I never ever thought this would be so difficult, I can honestly not picture that kind of joy

Hair stroke for Miss. Who knows what will happen in our futures? This is just a truly shit time you are going through, don't try and fight it, what you are feeling is horrible but normal and it too will pass. Just know that there are more women than you can imagine who have gone through the same thing and the amount of sympathy that you have in the world is surprisingly huge. Consider it a world sized hug coming your way. Or take a cod of comfort and an arm punch. Choice is yours

Oh and a pint of quality gin obvs.

A big long eel of empathy for you, Miss. I totally get how you are feeling.
This really is the most unbelievable shit! But like Fab says, it's normal to feel like this and it will pass. Can you imagine when all this is over and you're playing in the park with your brood? Try to imagine it...I'm trying too (but with my own brood obviously). This utter shit will just be a bad memory.
I keep hearing about or seeing articles about suffering. You aren't suffering alone Miss. Massive hugs.

Welcome cunty! Just writing it made me smile a little.

I'm Fizzy, ttc #1 since November 2010. 1 mmc, 2 ectopics, no tubes left. Endometriosis. Poor ivf response; embryos frozen, 2x cancelled FET due to lining issues. Married to GFBW (Green Fingered Bookworm). Been a BESH for too long to count.

Have a sardine of sympathy, miss h. Even though the sun is out times are still tough. Consultant appointment for us today. Even though I knew there probably wasn't going to be a magic bullet for the thin lining problem, I still kinda hoped for one. But the prognosis isn't great. Next step is another hysteroscopy and endometrial biopsy, and some tests for clotting disorders. But he doesn't think these really are the causes; it's more a matter of ruling things out. If no underlying factors can be found, we will probably have a 'one last roll of the dice' round and just go for transfer even if the lining is thin. We are just looking at such a tiny chance of success - it's so different from when we started ivf and were told the chances were 50%. I can't quite believe we are in this position. He started talking about surrogacy, at which point I got tearful. I can contemplate adoption, but not surrogacy at this stage. The day wasn't improved by a work friend coming in with her squishy 10 month old baby. I tried to hide in the loos and then in the kitchen but they stayed for ages! Some days I'm fine with differs and sprogs, but not on days like today.

Small compensation - the consultant recommended relatively clean living, "but not angelic". Pass the gin, someone!

Welcome cunty! Inspired name, you'll fit right in
I'm also 2 years in, 'unexplained', 1 MC, awaiting fertility appt in July where I suspect we'll also be told to naff off as our CCG has a 3 year wait for IVF for under 35s (I'm 32), not sure about other options tho!

Swordfish of solace for MissH - I hope you feel a bit better for letting it all out. You've been through the mill sideways, upways and downways, but you're getting closer and closer to that take home baybee with every step you take, no matter how shitty. Eyes on the prize

fankle how do you track OV? Are you a temper? Could it have snuck past you without you realising? I am on to my last batch of CBFM sticks - trying to decide whether to a) spunk money on even more b) switch to temping or c) fuck it all and try this 'relax about it' thing all my smug sprogged friends keep suggesting.

fizz oof, what a day. I guess you almost want them to find a problem so they can fix it - what's the timescale for these further tests? Have you heard of Prof Quenby's clinic? I think it's aimed at MC but focuses on implantation - she does something called an endometrial scratch (I think!) that allegedly helps boost the lining for a cycle or two?

Droid landing is imminent, but still have that foolish flicker of hope (sore nips, hot at night, feeling woozy when I get up). To tempt fate soothe the blues when it turns up, I bought a vehry naice bottle of Pinot Noir last night.

I'd wondered about all the husband/partner acronyms! I'll go with the recurrent theme of my husband's life and pick RAF: real ale farter fanatic!

parsley a real ale fanatic sounds good! GFBW is keen on the stuff too. We hang out in proper pubs that give you your beer in a glass with a handle

All this nonsense about having to wait 3 years. Three fecking years! It's such an awful length of time. How are you fixed re going private? Would you lose any NHS funding by doing so?

Funnily enough the consultant today was the one who pioneered the scratch. It's not yet given as standard because the stats don't stack up enough. He said that he was in as much discomfort about it as the women undergoing it! To which I retorted that professional anguish is pretty different from long term infertility and someone sticking a crochet hook up your foof! I will be doing some more obsessive googling about Prof Quenby though - thanks for the tip.

fizzy that sounds right up our street! I usually stick to the gin, but I do love a pint of IPA on a sunny day!

We've basically decided that if the NHS fertility clinic tell us to get lost in July that we'll start on the private path if we're allowed to (as we're still 'young' we don't want to preclude ourselves from all NHS options). We do have the savings for it, although obviously they were meant for our 'family's future (I feel such a fucking fraud just writing that down!), but needs must etc. etc.

I know a lady on another thread here who recently went to Prof Q (mainly for the NK cells research) who noticed her periods got heavier after the procedure. Is it really a hook?

I might be exaggerating about the hook. Seriously, though, he did say that further 'damaging' a lining which is already struggling didn't seem to him like the right course of action. And I guess I might get the same effect from having a biopsy. Ouchy! I think the next procedure will be something like 6 - 10 weeks away - they will want to do it mid cycle I think and there's no way I'll get in in the next 2 weeks.

I hope the FC have good news for you in July so you don't have to eat into your savings. Or of course that you get diffed by then!

I tried to write last night 'have a litre of gin a Fizz and a giant basket of prawns. What a shitty day you've had. Hangs the squid of solace round Fizz's shoulders.' However the gin comment may seem a bit strong for this time in the morning. But on the other hand...

My clinic now seem to be offering the scratch as standard - I'll probably add that on to my ridiculous list of things I need to have when it's my time on the merrygoround again.

Me - 41, ttc since wedding to TWH in nov 2010. Unknown infertility, ivf #1 jan 2013 BFP followed by mmc and erpc. Ivf #2 in July 2013 bfn. Various auto immune ishoos diagnosed followed by sessions with the rheumatologist but nothing leaping out. Next and final round probably around July once TWH has a new job bedded in.

Morning hags

Fizzy- sorry you didn't get the answers you wanted at your appointment yesterday, and that you are having to endure such shittiness. There is no sense in any of this.

Parsley- I very much hope ov has somehow snuck by without me noticing this month, but I doubt it. Ive been having really bad pains since last night, which i think might be ov (does anyone else get that? It's like droid cramps. I wanted to stay in bed)! I track ov using opks. Nothing else. I used to temp but after my miscarriage it became a bit obsessive and was getting me down when I'd see the temp dip before AF. I asked MG to hide my thermometer. I have never found it in 2 years so I suspect he chucked it out! The bugger! I've tried many times to go au naturel and not track. It inevitable leads to madness as droid approaches and I don't know exactly when to expect it. I guess with tracking you can at least narrow it down to a specific couple of days. My cycle isn't irregular but nor is it regular, ranging from 27-34 days.

Sorry, don't think I gave my deets: Fankle, 35, married to MG 3 years and ttc since September 2011. Got diffed on third cycle, only to have a miscarriage in jan 2012. Blood tests and private fertility mot last Jan-March...then referred to gynae for various scans including hsg. Nothing found in any of the tests, so very much unexplained. Prescribed clomid in August. Requested a laparoscopy in November, which took place in Jan and revealed mild endo- which now apparently takes me off the unexplained list. Wha?? Now waiting for first acu appointment on 6 June to discuss starting iui.

Fanks I get very strong cramps when ovulation occurs - I even know which side it's coming from most months! Recently though I've had low to mid level cramping for my whole cycle which is concerning me - just need to register for my new doctor's surgery before I can go and get checked out as it's been a few months now and it's bugging me. Hope it's nothing serious.

Thanks hags - now killing time before second interview at 10. Talk about bad timing!

I often get mid cycle pains, and have no real explanation of what they are. I assume ovulation - more of a sharp discomfort than a cramp. Droid cramps for me are further towards my back, somehow. Def best to get it checked out, but it's probably all on the spectrum of 'normal'.

Afternoon all.

Miss H - sorry you're having such a shit time. Infertility truly sucks arse, but like others have said it's normal to feel mean and envious and all the other shitty emotions that come with it. Try not to add guilt for those feelings to how you feel though! I always find that a good swear-out-loud session helps (best save it for when you're alone though so you don't terrify anyone)

Fankle - does mild endo shift you off the 'unexplained' list onto the 'qualifies for treatment' list? If you don't mind me asking, do you have any symptoms with it? I've suspected I might have it for a while but my doctor seemed really dismissive. If it might help things along I'll try that route again!

I've turned to acupuncture as a way of 'doing something' while we keep trying for another year. Being 'unexplained' is really frustrating, but the Chinese doctor I'm seeing pays a lot of attention to the little symptoms that the NHS write off. His explanation was that I have a chi deficiency - in less woo terms that my body doesn't have the energy to hold on to a pregnancy. Even if it is a load of cobblers the acupuncture does at least help me to relax once a week, which can't be a bad thing! Plus, it's nice to feel completely cared for as a whole person rather than simply a womb. Which is nice

Thanks Hags! Again!

I have no-one irl who even comes close to understanding, or even to listen to me wail on! It does feel better to let it out! I think one thing that bothers be about instadiffer friend is that she has pulled away so much from me, lying about things to, I can only assume, protect me?!?! Ie: Saying our other fiend isn't bothered about kids/trying when actually they have just started I'll tell her again tomorrow that I'm OK with it all and want to hear about it, be involved! It's horrible having people pussy footing about you when you just want to be normal!

Fab - July is not far away, I hope you have some fun stuff planned for in between times. I like Fizz's consultants advice on not being Angelic

Fizz - sorry you didn't get the news you were hoping for at your appointment. I agree that it can get to a point where any chance is hopeful, and there is always a chance. No one has said "it'll never happen" yet so I still have hope for you! I am still shouting COW out to you on a regular basis! I find it interesting that you can consider adoption but not surrogacy, I've been thinking things menkulling over (I know I'm nowhere near the end of the road yet and do appreciate that) and I'd go for surrogacy first so that I'd have our genetic child even if I didn't cook it. I'm at the point right now that I don't care about other people's children and wouldn't want one of theirs! I know this is a thought that's very fluid and very very personal!

Parsley - 3 years for under 35's?!?!?! That's just the shit right there, in 3 years you will be 35, will you then go to the top!? It's a fucking joke! I hope you have to put the Pinot in the cupboard for a few nine months As for the money, it is for your family's future, and if it's going to make your family a reality then that is not fraudulent! In my experience no-one ever has enough money and you will always manage with what you have, if using it to go private will make you happy and give you a chance then I say go for it!! most definitely NOT a financial advisor

Fankle - If you were unexplained, I assume you were ovulating ok? Why did they prescribe clomid? I'm hoping to skip this stage having had 3 pregnancies in the last 15 months (which my GP says is really good making me cry! ) I can't see being diagnosed with mild endo to make your infertility suddenly 'explained'?! It's all too crazy and makes me think that they can fob you off as they've done something. I think too many people just accept the first thing they're told and go away never to return or ask for more help, its a bit to be honest.

Cunty - I do often have a bit lot of swearing, I have major problems not bottling everything up and just feeling like I have to deal with it by myself that I find it hard to actually let go The BESH help with that! I started acupuncture a couple of months ago for relaxation rather than fertility, then went just after my bfp and told her to concentrate on making it stick, that didn't work obviously! But I did feel like I was doing something! Unfortunately since this mc I've been a mess and the accu texted me today at 11:15 wondering where I was! Oops! So I told her and have had to pay for the missed session (fair enough) but I won't be going back. I feel my fertility is best in the hands of medical experts!

Bugs - Still cheering on the Buglet! Hope eveythings going ok!

Sorry about the essay! Wanted to catch up! Also not sorry about the twee Bunnies!

Last bit of news! We actually had a shag this morning!! I'm very happy about it, first step back to a bit of intimacy and fun for just us!

Chops was it you who said your nhs doc said you had to be ttc for 3 years before getting on the ivf wait list? Try looking up www.infertilitynetworkuk.com I've just seen an advert for them in a mag which refers specifically to having problems getting treatment on the nhs. Worth a look anyway?

Miss I must admit this year has been spent mostly being nice to myself so I've made a decision that as of post Easter we shall be getting back into fertility diet mode again - no more cheeky glasses of wine, sneaky gins, massive decaf coffees (apparently even decaf is bad - no fair) etc. to be fair we eve a pretty balanced diet but we have been having cheeky biscuits and cakes which isn't good so they've got to go. That way we should have done the golden rule of 3 months fertility dieting before ivf in order to have the best eggs and sperm possible. Here we go again!

cunty (I still when I type that!) - I used to know a guy called Chi. If that's your deficiency I could give him a call for you?

I guess all reasons for infertility are shite, but given I am a control freak the fact I got lumped with 'unexplained' is especially irritating! And yeah MissH - 3 years is a fuckload of extra crap. I am just hoping that the failed pregnancy will not reset the clock, so to speak. If it doesn't, then three years is next Jan which isn't so awful (spoken like a true long term ttcer). fab I am going to check that link out!
I also hear you on the IRL stuff. My (previously exceptionally close) friends are all a bit distant with me now and I can't figure out where the self imposed isolation ends and their wary pity begins. I miss them horribly, and yet I also hate them for their happy carefree instadiff lives (literally all but a couple of them have kids).
Glad you got a bit of toad in!

Fab you're made of sterner stuff than me. I start these health kicks with the best of intentions and then someone offers me something with sugar in it and I just cave. . I hope July comes around quickly, for you and me both! (Next FC appt is then)

No droid yet but I know it's coming, I can feeeeeel it in my waters! That said, I do have one sore tit. Is that a thing? Then again it could be due to RAF sleeptalking last night. I woke up to find him wedging his hand under my side, and using the other one to peer down my top. I asked him what he was doing; "checking the secondary wall!" Of course he is "perhaps you could do that after breakfast?" I replied (I find it's easier to get him to lie back down if I engage in conversation). He replied "biscuits!", giggled like a bloody girl and promptly nodded off. Men!

parsley that is hilarious! Checking the secondary wall should become common parlance for having a grope. I have one sore boob but that's coz the cat just walked all over me as I was lying down...

miss h this is why the BESH is awesome, innit? We all need to talk to people who get it.

fab good work on the health kick! We are starting a new policy of bringing in fruit instead of cake at work - dull but healthy!

My interview went well today! Knowing ivf isn't likely to work has helped me feel a bit more 'free', ie staying in my job for the maternity pay isn't so relevant any more...

More googling has revealed an area that didn't come up with the consultant yesterday - over active thyroid can apparently cause light periods. Anyone know anything about this?

Morning all, hello to cunty

Sorry I haven't been around much, I've been making the most of the heat and spending 8 hours a day in the garden . . .

I got my paperwork for bloods yesterday. So I'll be having them done next week and the results should be back in a couple of months.

Never thought I'd be looking at a form that said 'History of recurrent miscarriage'. I still feel a bit scared entering into the tests, because a part of me feels like it's allowing myself to be 'medicalised' - i.e. if they don't find a cause, then they might just start throwing meds at me to see if anything works, and I don't want that.

I've also been very wobbly the last few weeks, and have been drinking more than I ought. This always happens after my MCs - I'm OK while there's something to deal with, but as soon as it's all over I slide into depression. This time is particularly shit as we can't even try again before the tests are done. So I have nothing to focus on. Just hanging round in limbo land, forcing myself not to drink a bottle of wine a night.

Anyway, now I've massively bummed everyone out, I think I'll go and have some toast

Big smelly fish slaps to all BESH

sorry cunty, forgot to introduce myself:

cletts, 31, married for 2 years to Mr C (haven't thought of a NN yet) TTC for 16 months (fuuuck), 2 CPs, 1 MMC (10 weeks), 1 MC (8 weeks). Currently waiting on first round of testing for blood/hormone issues.

Dishes! - Welcome back! I don't blame you for taking a break, or the drinking It's at times like this I wish I still liked drinking, but it just makes me melancholy irritating crying drunk and I don't know when to stop, then I'm just embarrassed for myself the next day! Rubbish! Do you have a date for your rmc clinic? I'm also in limbo now waiting for mine. Have been put on the mini pill in the meantime, fucking ironic as I came off hormonal contraception 5.5 years ago to aid ttc

Stressing about meeting instadiffer for lunch today

OMG - clinic appointment just arrived, 1st may. I'm in shock Thought it would be months!

All right, hobbsy

I had to start avoiding gin (terrible unBESHlike admission) because it's awful for making you tearful. I still like one now and again if we're out, but I very rarely drink it. I can't remember which comedian described gin as 'not so much a drink as mascara thinner', but he was right.

I've got alcoholism in my family, and I'm aware that I'm very fond of a drink, so I have to be very careful about monitoring my units. Obviously it's never been an issue during pregnancy (teetotal all the way) but at times like this it can sneak up on me. It just adds to the panic, thinking 'Oh my God, I'm drinking too much AS WELL AS EVERYTHING ELSE fuck fuck fuck'.

Also the chat about woo needles, herbalists and green tea is making me feel like I'm not making enough of an effort . I know that's bollocks but I'm just in a bit of a black mood. Sorry BESH