TTC a lot longer than 10 months past and present

[Cosmonaut1]

A thread full of the loveliest people

Critter – i am so sorry things are so tough right now. It is deeply unfair that you are in this position and are back at work when you shouldn’t be. It’s horribly cruel. But in a way i’m pleased that your colleagues got to see your meltdown. It’s so easy for people to forget what others around them have been through and are going through especially when you have been putting on a brave face. It’s good they have been reminded. And of course you have nothing to be ashamed of. You are going through a huge grief and trauma that no parent should ever have to go through and MrC is right. 9 weeks is really early days and you shouldn’t be expected to be functioning normally yet and your work have to be very gentle with you. Have they given you a flexibility so that if you need to work from home some days, then you can?

Euro – amh apparently should never go up so it sounds pretty meaningless doesn’t it. i can imagine those first months dragging ever so slowly. Can’t believe people on the AN thread are buying things. Is this thread for people who have taken a while or have they got pregnant quickly and naturally? I’m not sure I could ever join a thread like that. I would never ever be in the same head space as a ‘normal’ pregnant woman. In fact i doubt i would ever buy anything before the birth.

sea - I think tears and sadness are normal.

euro - I didn't buy things for a long time either.

Pout- I love the sound of your dogs. Luckily mine hasn't figured zips out.

Ray - I can't believe how annoying your AF is being. I can understand how frustrating and devastating it must be.

Dev - Glad it is thrush and not the alternatives. I hope the diet works for you.

Nelly - I am thinking of you and your bag of meds.

Critter - Your post made me so sad. You aren't a fraud, you grew a beautiful son and had to say goodbye to him in the most unfair way imaginable. You don't have anything to be ashamed of. I have been incredibly amazed and really admire how you have handled all the awfulness. Mr.C sounds like he is really there for you, it’s really great. Big hugs from up North.

Mad - you are nesting ! I know it's really hard, but try to rest - If you find you can't, at least try to have a hot bath or to book a massage after you finish tidying up.

lemon - I was anxious the whole way through, towards the end Mr.G also started getting super stressed, he was having nightmares about the pregnancy being fake. I guess we all go through the feelings of fraud in our own way.

Waves and tail feathers to everyone I've missed.
It's the end of March and I hope spring weather will start soon. It's been an unusually cold winter and I look forward to warmer weather and being able go outside without my face freezing.

critter Thinking of you this morning & hoping that you feel a bit better. Everyone makes a good point that maybe your work will see that you are still in the eye of the storm and be mindful of not laying too much on you right now. Also I think that MrC sounds very wise, what a spot on comment he made.

euro I feel kind of sad that so many of you on here feel unable to buy baby stuff. I would love for you all with babies on board to be hammering the credit card on gorgeous stuff without a care in the world. That said I totally understand why not. On the upside, if you leave it until after baby is here you can buy stuff specifically with them in mind IFYSWIM

Dev I really can't get my head around how an AMH result can jump around. I really am beginning to think that the medical profession make all this fertility shit up and just blindly hope that people will be one of the lucky ones and be an IVF win story.

The dogs story would be funny if it were not for the fact that they don't just snaffle & eat the good stuff they also shred anything else they find in his bag We have started leaving Classic FM on for them when we are out (apparently classical music is calming) and MrP reckons that the house is like a scene from a Clockwork Orange when we are out

Ohhh and just to lower the tone ladies, I wanted to report that I have been taking Vit B complex for a number of weeks now and this AF was starkly different to usual. Much less pain, much fewer clots and not snotty and much more red in colour, rather than dark/black. I also bled for the full 5/6 days which is unheard of for me in years. I wonder too whether the exercise is helping in addition to the Vitamin B Complex? Anyway, as well as putting you all off you lunch it has made me feel a bit happier that it is a "healthier" thing.

x-post waves to sweet You wait until your pup turns into the hound from hell like mine evil laugh

devon the thread is the August AN thread, so for anyone due then. Most of them seem to be instadiffers, some on their second pregnancy. I feel a little sad reading their posts, because it makes me realise what a happy experience this could have been.

pout that does sound like a "healthier" period. I was taking B6 while I was ttc.

I love the idea of the Clockwork Orange scene. Perhaps you should spy on them and see what they do get up to. One of my friends set up a webcam in the room where his bunnies lived. I could log on and watch bunncam from my office. It was much better than working.

sweet I hope the spring comes to you soon. I find the UK cold enough (I'm a chilly person). I don't think I would cope where you are!

pout - she is going to be four soon. She outgrew her fondness for eating our moldings and bags and couches at 6 months. She now just tries to herd the two kitties around the house.

xpost euro - it's damper in the UK than here, the damp would make cold weather unbearable.

euro I remember reading someone saying that the first trimester crawls by, the second trimester passes in normal time, and the third trimester flies past in lightning speed. It's totally true that other people's pregnancies pass quickly... and I totally agree about the announcement timing making them seem quicker!

pout how interesting about Vitamin B? Is it just a general Vit B complex or is it a numbered Vitamin B (6 or 12 or something)? Do you know why they recommend it? I do find it interesting how some supplements seem to do stuff and others don't. I now take Floradix liquid iron supplement and have definitely noticed a difference in my energy levels. Love the calming classical music for the dogs. Will have to google the Clockwork Orange reference though as I haven't seen it (too scared, hear it's scary).

sweet Hope you and little one are bundled up, it's actually snowing here. I am excited for spring too. The crap weather has matched my mood over the past couple of months, but I associate the flowers coming out and the warmth with time passing and new hopefulness. I was amazed when I went home a couple of weeks ago at how spring was already in full force in the UK. Here there is barely a crocus popping its nose out yet!

dev I am now working from home two days a week and I think it will make a huge difference. I definitely don't get as much done, but it gives me a little break.

madness we barely bought anything as people gave us a lot of stuff. But actually, even though it's all packed away now, I kind of wish we'd got more. For instance we got given a car seat and so we didn't buy one, but now I sort of wish we'd spent the money on more nice things to welcome the baby, even though he didn't get to use them. Totally weird, I know. Very oddly I may buy more stuff for the twibling, when/if he/she is gestating, even though I know that runs counter to what most people do after a loss.

Feeling much better today. It is so weird how it comes and goes. Thank you SO much for support yesterday.

Excited to hear about nelly's trip!

Hello lovelies!

Glad today is a bit better, critter! I agree with everyone and mrC that you have nothing to be ashamed off, and that you should still be looking after yourself. Not a fraud, but the mum of an amazing boy, that was not allowed to stay for longer. Tight squeeze! Working from home sounds good.

Sorry about bloody annoying AF absence, ray! It is incredibly frustrating! Hurrah for healthier looking AF, poutster and for hilarious dog tales.

Can't wait for all of Nelly's news.

Tonight we'll mostly be tidying cupboards...

Be fluffed, rails and feathers!

Pout - that's very interesting about your AF. . I am on B6 bit I hear the b complex is better. What exercise are you doing? I will be interested to know if you ever go gluten free as well and whether you notice a difference then. This all shows that maybe it is worth tinkering .I wonder whether a lot of this fertility rubbish is made up! My 2012 amh results were clearly in the dud results so I wish they could have had the decency to let people know there could have been an error when they suspended the amh blood company or whoever they were. I know it is better this way round but still they must know there is quite a lot if anxiety and stress around infertility.

Critter - so pleased you have 2 days a week at home to work. That's good.

Hello ladies, I am back, kinda. In the lounge at Heathrow so thought I'd do a mammoth post. But first hugs to Ray and Critter particularly, I've just scan read the thread just now. Looks like the other wonderful 10plussers have been around to offer all the right words of comfort.

So...

Athens was nice. Warmer than here! Was a bit worried before we left to discover yesterday was a bank holiday so if I'd needed a hysteroscopy I wouldn't have been able to do it this trip. Before I left Penny was also talking about doing one with Implantation cuts which apparently has a big effect on implantation rates, and isn't the same as an endometrial scratch.

(Talking of which, cos I've been sharing some of your stories with Mr Nelly and told him about your septum and he wondered if a scratch would be of any use to you?)

Also before I let the GP phoned to say they weren't prepared to give us that level of antibs.

So Monday was clinic day, found it via a taxi and satnav but it does look a bit back street clinic when you arrive, which is a bit worrying. Mr N was taken off to do his sample first thing so that we could have initial results before we met Penny. This was fine apparently (Greek porn is apparently less graphic than the British stuff ) so we waited for our appointment. First we went to the office and we talked of my "chronic infection". Interesting snippet was that it is their belief that the infection could have an impact on ovary function as well as potentially blocking tubes. At this stage she said she would think Natural IVF was my best chance with own eggs and was cross our clinic wouldn't do it (we asked them to). Anyway initially she was talking as if we might see an improved response after the antibs. Then we went for the scan. For anyone googling aqua scan and Serum, note that it's fine, not painful, but they don't give you a pad and I leaked all over my trousers afterwards.

So first she scanned my ovaries, still very quiet and I had already ovulated, day 10 by that point. So, short cycle again. I cannot tell you how much I hate these scans these days, I feel sick seeing the nothingness. However uterus looked fine, good lining. Then they did the test catheter (fine) then the water. What they saw was no issue in as much as no polyps or adhesions, but it was reluctant to actually move. Best way I can describe it - if you hold your palms in front of you in a "prayer", keep them relaxed, and drop the tips of your fingers down, you create a round/ heart shape easily. Now do it again but put tension on your fingertips against each other as you try to create the round shape. Your fingers don't want to pull apart. That was what it was like, as if the muscle was very inelastic. She asked if I'd had my thyroid tested at this point, which I haven't, so has suggested I get that done, presumably this is a side effect?

So got dressed (leaking!) and went back to her office with another doctor too. She said again that if I'd been local she would want me to do more own egg cycles after antibiotic treatment but understood if we were ready to move on. We said we were, and started talking drugs. Will post this and come back....

So we talked about the infection again (Dev I thought of you and your improved AMH and wondered when you'd had the first test - it was after antibs wasn't it.). I think having seen my ovaries she wasn't quite so confident that we would see progress, although earlier she did imply it could be a cause of POF. So at this point we talked DE. She wanted full on immune too, as the chances are my immune system is up if I have an infection. So came away with an enormous carrier bag of drugs:
Clexane (anticoagulant)
Prednisolone (steroid)
Cyclacur (?)
Arvekap (DR drug)
Doxycycline (antib)
Azithromycin(antib)
Utrogestan (?)
Baby aspirin
Valtrex (antiviral)
Folic acid 5mg

There will also be IV intrallipids.

I was a bit confused about the immunes. She asked if I ever get cold sores etc. I do, though not often, but literally just had 3 at the same time within the last 2 weeks. She gave me the antivirals to offset the steroids which, as I understand it, would suppress my immunes and therefore increase my risk of them occurring. But if my immunes were very high now (due to infection) why would I just have had cold sores? I've not had my levels tested but perhaps I should just go for the whole theory.

She gave me a rough overview of the treatment, I need to DR to help align cycles with a donor. Ugh. Also not looking forward to the clexane injections from what I've heard from you guys.

Also at this stage she said MrNs sample looked excellent but they still had DNA frag to do. So we were to come back later.....

What is the infection, nelly? Is it the hidden c? What did your GP have to say about this?

When we went back, she reiterated the good results from Mr N (v high count, motility, morphology and DNA frag result was 3% and 5% respectively, whatever that means. However, they continue to analyse the sperm over 5 hours and discovered that his fast swimmers die very quickly, so by 3 hours the 15% rapid is down to 5%. This was quite a shock and revelation. Essentially her view was that any time we had sex before ovulation we weren't in with a shout and only if we did it very close (or ideally a little after) did we have a fair shot. So now we have a problem-map:

Very few eggs so not great choice
Swimmers rarely getting there
Infection in uterus
Tough environment(inelastic)

The swimmers are great for IVF but perhaps a large part of our problem naturally. Anyhow we continued to talk DE but just as we were standing up to leave, it transpired she thought we were rushing a bit and we should treat these problems first. So MrN is now also taking the antibs as well as high dose Vit C and E. I am on the antibs, am to start taking baby aspirin continuously, and the idea is we try for a few more months.

I'm sceptical a little. It's all a bit out there. My own GP had to hide his mirth when I explained the process to find this infection. But it does sort of explain why we mostly made what looked like good embies, but no implantation. I will take the antibs, and the aspirin, and MrN was mortified to discover he might be part of the problem after all so hopefully that can be improved a bit. I'm not sure how long we will try for though. I was buoyed when we first left the clinic but honestly reality is biting a lot now. And I'm not sure I can face own egg IVF again. But here we are, with perhaps a little piece of the puzzle explained.

I will probably have forgotten lots so will post again later!!

Yes Ray Hidden C I think, the ureaplasma was negative. It says C-DNA was found but really I'm not sure what that means exactly!

It sounds like you have a plan now nelly which is good news. I think it's probably wise to try the things suggested for a short time before moving on to donor. Will you do an ivf cycle with your own eggs again? The motility thing is interesting. I've just dug out mrden's results and his motility started out at 69%, then they did some sort of stress test and it fell to 59% and this dropped to 6% after 24 hours. We were told this was quite normal after 24hrs but the problem for us is that the number is so low that 6% for us is very, very few sperm.

I'm a little bit unsure what to think about the hidden C. I'm surprised that most people seem to come back showing a positive result for this. I'd never heard of it before Dev sent her period to Greece. If it's so important, then why isn't it talked about in other countries when it seems relatively simple to test for and then treat?

critter working from home will help you I'm sure. Even if it just means you don't have to keep a brave face on when you feel sad. We are always here to talk to if you need it.

AF is here, although not quite full flow and I don't know if I'd count it as day 1 yet. It's perfectly timed to rule an April fet out :( I had a bad day yesterday, probably pmt but I felt like bursting into tears at several points. It's just an overwhelming sadness sometimes that I don't seem to be getting any closer to having a baby.

Oh ray. How irritating about the timing.

nelly that all sounds very interesting. At least you now have a reason of sorts as to why it hasn't been working. They look at some many more possibilities than most clinics here, which just seem to tick the boxes of are there eggs, sperm and tubes. I guess that having made your peace with moving to donor eggs, the time pressure is off, giving you some space to try other things.

Nelly am reading with mouth opened interest but little people don't really let you type ipad messages easily! Lots to say when I return bit v interesting if not a bit mind boggling. Makes you wonder what most sperm do over time. I've personally always thought the five days before ov thing seemed a bit unlikely. I hope you aren't feeling too phased by the sheer volume of new info, it could be that this solves a missing link to the puzzle I would so like this to be the case.

Ray - hug. Stoopid late periods when they aren't wanted.

Critter - how you doing today?

Little people fox? How long was I away??!

Nelly that is so interesting. Does it help why the 'why' question? Or has it given you a complete headf**k about your direction? That wasn't quite what you were expecting I imagine? I still can't quite comprehend the vast differences between clinics, I find it mindbending. It's good that they aren't just recommending the most expensive option and are trying to make sure you explore and exhaust all possibilities. I suppose the question is how much more can you face? Hopefully the new hobble will help you through the possible more hurdles.

Critter I'm so sad to read your message, but glad that you aren't just bottling up your emotions, it's really important that your work don't start to overload you thinking you're better than you are. A mini hooray for the clear headed Mr C. Isn't it awful how grief and misery spread and wreak havoc in all manner of other negative emotions. I'm sure that if you think of someone else who's had the same tragedy you'd think nothing but compassion and respect for them, as we do for you. Isn't it always harder to be kinder to ourselves than others. You were a wonderful mother to lovely little James and you will be to his siblings as well. Have you been doing any jon Kabat-Zinn lately or does that just seem irrelevant at the moment?

Ray oh no for the nightmare FET timings. You must feels so frustrated. Do you really have to do the other things? It's so miserable all the endless waiting around, so hard to keep your spirits up. You WILL get there.

Pout my acu lady would be rapturous about the af improvements you described, that sounds massively different. Oh we're so due a 'just happened' good news on here, fingers crossed!

Dev, so glad you haven't got syphilis! That's good news it's 'only' the bird and not anything more sinister. Has it got any more better? What are your thoughts now about what the clinic said?

Fox, sounds like you're having a nice time, hope they take your mind off things a bit.

Sea how incredibly upsetting to see that on the scan. It must be hard as you can't really grieve properly as you've got to keep going for the other one. Hope you're ok.

Afm went to dinner with parents the other day and when they were rupturing about my niece and nephew, I haven't done this in a while, but I couldn't hold it back at all and had to go to the loo and have a massive cry. I rang the hospital today to ask about the 'products of conception' test result and apparently the result is in and a letter was being written today. Am obviously imagining the worst, even though I'm not sure what the worst is.

Waves to everyone else.

Oh and Nelly I did have a scratch the month before the last FET round.

cos I am so sorry for the tears. It is good to let it out. I can understand the desperation for more information. I hope you get the letter soon and that it is helpful although I can imagine that reading it will be very upsetting. Do you have another appointment with Dr R set up?

nelly wow what a lot of info. Being open to DE takes the time pressure off but I know you've waited a loooong time already. Would it be worth having a time cut off point - like 6 months or 4 months or something? So they think the antibiotics will help give your own eggs a chance? God it's unsettling and anxiety inducing this whole thing. I think you and MrN are amazing. Either way, this is going to be the year of the Nelly baby.

fox sending you love. I am doing ok. Been working (unproductively) from home today. Went to a Pilates class this morning and saw my prenatal pilates teacher, which was fine. I am trying to get physically strong again as it's something productive I can do while I wait. How are you doing? Sounds like you've been really busy lately.

I think the public tears was a good thing - colleague told me that she had been 'worried' that I wasn't showing more emotion . I told her that I cried plenty but usually I was able to do it in private. I guess people have ideas about how you're supposed to react to this.

ray it sucks that this hasn't worked out and tears are totally understandable. You've been waiting and waiting and had so many knocks and setbacks. You've been a bloody hero. The June window will be here soon though - that's just two months away, or 8 weeks. Is there any way you can ring fence that time? I just think you've waited more than long enough for this FET. Would they put you on the pill to time your period? I know they did that with me and the fresh round but maybe long protocol fresh IVF is different?

I am doing ok. Lots of knitting - it's the perfect combination of mindlessness and creative concentration for me. I haven't written any poems since it happened but I guess they are there, percolating away. I start my masters programme again this summer (I took this semester off to have the baby) so that will be a creative distraction.

Also wanted to send a little virtual hug to sea. Thinking of you.

Quick post just because it dawned on me IUI might be an option instead of own egg IVF. Puts swimmers in the right place at the right time, no?

Cos lovely, no wonder you feel sad. I hope the letter arrives soon and is useful. It will be hard to see the words though I'm sure.

Critter I'm always in awe of you. You are coping amazingly, but sporadic meltdowns are to be expected. Mr C appears to be very wise as well as handsome, I loved what he said about attributing false emotions to legitimate grief.

Ray did AF arrive properly? Is there no way you can sort the timing (fake some sort of appointment?). So bloody frustrating for you. I'm sick of waiting, you must be too.

For those who asked, we had bloods taken to renew HIV etc and they want those to be less than 6 months. So I guess we will aim to do DE within the 6 months. I wanted it all done by August (a big milestone coming up) but am prepared for some flexibility there.

Better go, loads of work to catch up on!

Nelly – fascinating. I agree with Cos, it’s mind boggling that there are no standard tests for everything. I have never heard of this test for sperm to see if they live more than a few hours. Considering it takes about 7 hours I believe for sperm to reach the egg, it does seem fruitless TTC if the front runners have run out of steam and keeled over by then. So why is this test not done more regularly? Sperm like that would be good for IUI as then their journey is only 10 minutes. But a good piece of the jigsaw for you. I am really surprised you have also never had your thyroid checked. That should be the number 1 thing they check for when it comes to infertility plus vitamin d levels. Seriiously there needs to be a check list for doctors for unexplained infertility patients.
I think calling hidden C a ‘chronic infection’ is a bit OTT. I am a bit suspicious of this test because the company who tests for it has a patent on it. Perhaps they are on to something but to call it chlymadia seems to be wrong. Cos and I met a chlmaydia specialist and he analysed the results and he said they were meaningless. He did swab my cervix and found it to contain some polymers and so he actually agreed the month’s worth of antibiotics was a good thing but I’m not surprised a GP would balk at this idea. My old acupuncturist thought hidden C may be indicative of some kind of other bacteria in the body. I must say I remember taking all those antibiotics stopped me from peeing in the night which i had noticed had become a real problem and it stopped a few other things so I think I was harbouring some nasties.
Interesting that she thinks you should try with your own eggs still. In a way a comfort to think she isn’t rushing you in to something. Still
Nelly – thanks for posting all this. I am finding it really helpful. would it be rude of me to ask you to keep track of all the costs and the costs of all these drugs? It’s just that Serum is probably where we will head next year if we can raise some cash and I need to know what we need to save.

Cos – isn’t it easy to imagine the worst for everything? I am sorry they couldn’t just give you the results over the phone. I think in a way it’s more comforting to know there was a trimsomy or something which would at least give you an explanation as to why you miscarried. Will you have to go back for a meeting to discuss it with them? I am sorry you had to go off to the loo and cry. Sometimes people can start talking about things when you’re just not emotionally up to hearing it. It must be hard to hear them discussing your nephews/nieces when you are in the midst of a very long shitty experience. I am surprised you stayed composed in front of your parents as well.

Ray – god i’m sorry you miss out on the FET this month. What an absolute bugger of sod’s law.

Critter - I am glad you are finding knitting therapeutic. You often hear that a trauma can stop people doing something they love temporarily so I am sure that your poetry creativity will come back to you.

I was booked in for a dummy transfer and 3d scan today and had to book half a day off for it. Went there and they didn't have my name. Saw the nurse who booked me in last week and she had no recollection. Roy and I saw her write my name down in the book.. . Today she started saying I needed an ovarian reserve check before I had the dummy transfer. Wtf? I've had all that. She then started making up other excuses. I think the bottom line is she shouldn't have booked me in when I don't have funding yet. So I just have to wait for that. To be honest I would prefer to start ivf in July/august as will be hard to fit it in before.
Just cross about my very precious half day I took!