TTC a lot longer than 10 months past and present

[Cosmonaut1]

A thread full of the loveliest people

Dev, do you think it could be BV? It really is very irritating and doesn't smell very lovely. Antibiotics saw mine off. I think it is very common and the clinic should pick it up if it is there.

Dev I know those feelings of panic so well, have had them many times myself. You aren't being ridiculous, because it's worrying you. But I doubt very much it's what you think it is; it could be any number of things, whether hormonal or not. Have you changed your diet recently? At least the IVF is getting closer. Deep breaths. And I hope they get to the bottom of your recurring thrush or whatever it is. Yes the doctor from Greece basically said to me to ignore the BV so I've no idea if there is a treatment or not.

Euro that's a very sad date to have to remember. I'm so glad you have centime to ease the blow, but it's totally expected to have sorrow. I hope there is more good news on your mum too.

Cos I'm not surprised this all feels so futile. But the difference this time is there really is something to go on. You have been getting pregnant and there must be huge clues in there. Was the appt recently the result of your embryo testing? Apologies if I've missed that.

Buzzy I love it when you post "from the other side". Has miniBee got over her boob phobia now?

Mad I hope your SiL has a good cycle and result.

Ten how are you feeling, are you being monitored for OHSS?

Pout the conspiracy theories are interesting - never crossed my mind I have to say. I was probably too busy wailing at my useless ovaries.

Talking of... my CD17 pinkness was a bit of a one off. Had a bit of sludge-gate on CD18 and then...nothing.... Of course thoughts of implantation definitely did not enter my head and I most certainly was not metaphorically spending my IVF savings on something else. Oh no. So luckily when I started spotting again today (3 days since last spotted) I was totally fine with it; and not at all raging that in fact if this was any normal person, I would be pregnant, and that'd be it. Nope, all fine, totally not bothered at all. .

Let's not even mention the fact that essentially I'm having a 21 day cycle with spotting from CD17. When I talked to MrN about exactly what the Anti-bs were supposed to deal with, he suggested we delay the DE for a couple of months to give them a chance to work. I really don't think I see the point in that personally. Oh and Dev he is also worried about the impact on his stomach - unfortunately he reacts quite badly to drugs in that way so it's a high possibility it will affect him badly. Anyway I've not heard back from my GP so more time ticks by.

Sorry that ended up being a bit of a Friday night whinge. I'm exceptionally tired right now definitely wasn't including that in my symptoms and have been quite grumpy. I had what I think was a 1-day-late period last month with no spotting, so now wondering if in fact there was a bit more to that, and I'm suffering the after effects. At least shiny new hobble is keeping me cheered up; and although spring really hasn't reached my part of the world, the incessant rain has at least eased off the last few days.

sidles close to Drizz to be tail-fluffed some more

Anyway have a lovely weekend awesome people. I am hoping for mostly hobble related fun but I doubt it will work out that way

mad I've been telling everyone this is an IVF baby too. I'm not sure why as I am not exactly a cheerleader for the treatment! It was very much a necessary evil as far as I was concerned.

devon that's interesting about the info on the Radio 4 prog. I hope the dr can help. And that you don't have to list an allergy to spaff on every medical form from here on in.

fox it's good that DE is moving forward. I don't think feeling detached is unusual. I certainly did by the time of my 4th round. I think it was partly just having enough of it all and partly self-protection in case it didn't work again.

nelly I had concerns about the antibiotics too as I was finally getting better after more than a decade of IVF. It was one of the things that made me hesitate and see how the first round of IVF went. And then it just kind of got forgotten.

Thanks for all the lovely words. Current circumstances mean that I am not in anguish about this date. Just slightly wistful about the bean that didn't make it. And thinking back about what a year we have had and how much we have been through.

My mum now has a DVT (caused by them doing the blood pressure on the leg where she had one before, despite her notes saying not to, when she was in for the arm op). Grrr. It just seems a bit relentless for her at the moment.

Oh bloody hell Euro you couldn't make it up. You've got to wonder, in what way does it make sense that finally getting over the infertility hurdle is rewarded by yet another barrage of shit for famille Euro. Your poor Mum.

Fox we cross posted. I think the detachment is fine. I feel the same. This is just a thing I have to do to get a baby. As to the "what if it doesn't work". Well remember the time pressure is off. If it doesn't work first time, there is a good chance it will the second. The journey is only over when you say it is over. But don't look that far ahead. If there is one thing we've learned over the years, it's that the future never looks like we imagine it's going to. No point second guessing it. Oh and if it's any help, my cycles of IVF told me nothing that I didn't already know. So there aren't many eggs. Yes, got it. But there seemed to be no other issues, I think our double fertilisation was just one of those things with such low numbers, but no sign of thickened zones or anything. I know it's frustrating, but like you I still have no answers. At the end of the day, if DE is how I get my child, I can only imagine it is the RIGHT way. Because you and I will be looking at them and loving them so much, and thanking our lucky stars our own eggs didn't work. Because if they had, that beautiful child standing in front of us wouldn't exist. I really hope you and I get to be DE Mums at a similar time because we bloody well deserve to share some fun together :D. Big hugs xxx

Gotta go, Mr N just home after 3 days and now he's cooking tea, bless him.

foxy its natural to feel that way, its not how you make a baby really is it, you have sex with your partner and nature does its thing you don't tick boxes on a piece of paper, you honestly won't care how you got your baby, like nelly says you be so thankful it won't matter, you will fall in love your baby because that is what they are YOURS and you will; be someones mum.
Right now it is all surreal and unnatural

nelly I am enjoying t'other side she is still a boob refuser so i'm still expressing but not sure for how long other than that all is good :) glad you have your hobbles to keep you busy, when do you think it is likely to be DE I mean

Good morning ladies!

fox Others have said it better than I could - but detachment is normal. You're looking at a list of physical qualities and your brain is making dispassionate decisions about something incredibly emotional and personal. I think it's your brain's way of protecting you. It might not be the same but when I first saw James in the NICU, it was about 12 hours after he'd been born, because I was so out of it on drugs. He just looked like any other baby to me and I felt blank - I didn't feel he was mine. It was only the second time that they wheeled me round to see him, a few hours after that, that I felt the huge love rush that was like bathing in this beautiful honey-coloured glow. I think the brain tries its hardest to protect us from pain and that is what's happening with you now. I think you're being bloody brave and coping with this in exactly the 'right' way. This is going to get you your little one and you won't care once he or she is here what the process was. Hope your hand is ok.

ten I am really angry on your behalf about the cycle cancellation. I'm so sorry you went through all that just to have it cancelled. I really hope this causes them to watch you closely next time, and in the meantime I hope you get some answers as to why they chose to give you such a high dose. How long do you have to wait before another cycle?

buzzy I love your posts. Sorry to hear mini bee is still a boob refuser but you're being an absolute champ to keep expressing. How is Kayla coping with the tiny usurper?

euro argh about your poor mum. What a total nightmare and how incredibly frustrating. How is she holding up? And honey I am so so sorry about the date of your first little bean. Of course you still feel sad about what you went through and losing your little one. What a crazy roller coaster year it was for you. Was it this time last year that you and I had our date in the tea house? Things have changed a lot since then!

nelly it sounds like you've been through a lot with your cycle this month. How unbelievably frustrating. It is good however that you're moving forward with the Athens plan. This year is going to be a game changer and about time too. This might sound odd and I know our histories are different - but I sympathise with your period stress and the relentless 'could I be' frustration that cycles bring, as in a way I don't want my periods to come back post pregnancy - they didn't come back post-Pill when I really needed them, when I was TTC the first time around, and so I settled with IVF and it worked. I don't want them showing up again like a bad boyfriend, now I have settled on the unromantic but hopefully functional IVF/FET course of action.

dev I'm so sorry to hear you've had to deal with so much pain and irritation. Massive TMI alert. I often find sperm very burny and stingy post DTD so we always did withdrawal even when we weren't TTC and I was on the pill. If we didn't (e.g. when we were TTC) I would often hop in what Mr C calls my 'bird bath' post DTD which is a sink filled with warm water. It seems to help. I quite often had a version of what you describe when I was at uni with my first boyfriend and it was horrible.

ray how are you my lovely? Is FET coming up next month?

sea are you at 12 weeks yet? How are you feeling?

I'm back to work on Monday - I am 8 weeks postpartum today. A third of the way through the time I need to get through before we can TTC again in July. I actually just got back from a quick incognito trip home for four days, by myself, which was absolutely lovely - I saw my family and a few very close friends and bought some nice new clothes and got a haircut I really like. My tail feather has been thoroughly zhuzhed and fluffed. I felt happier than I have done for weeks. Back now and going to spend the weekend getting things in order around the house before the work cycle starts up again. Waves and tail blowdries to all.

Euro – I am sorry about the anniversary of such a sad time. Of course you will never forget your 1st bean… You poor mum is having such a hard time. I really hope she gets some respite soon. Like you, I tell everyone this is an ivf pregnancy. I feel I need to educate people about ivf as they are so many ignorant and close minded people out there. If I hear one more person say to me “why didn’t you just adopt” I will scream though. And why are the people who say this ALWAYS instadiffers? ALWAYS – without fail!

Nelly – You are so right. I really think we will all be a mother one way or another - IVF, DE or adoption. I have a number of friends with adopted children and the bond they have is as strong as any other parent/child relationship.

Dev – I am sorry about the mystery thrush. I think getting it properly checked out sounds like a good idea. So glad you got your appointment coming up. The waiting around is one of the hardest part I found.
Fox – I found all the form filling at the start of treatment v odd and surreal. It’s not how any of us envisaged would be the prelude to becoming parents. But like buzz said, you won’t care once you have a babe. As for meds, I took dexamethasone during ivf and prednisolone after ET (still am) and also baby aspirin as well as clexane as well.

Mad – I am the same now when someone I know has ivf. I feel so much empathy for them and so so want it to work. One of my close friends had ivf at the same time as me and it didn’t work. She is going again (3rd time) and I am so on edge.

Lemon – I agree. In hindsight iui feels like a big waste of time. I got both of mine on the nhs so didn’t pay for it. I was so convince it would work it was a massive let down. I wish I hadn’t bother to be honest. I remember the period I got after it didn’t work was excruciating.

Ten – How are you feeling? I still can’t believe how poorly they treated you. Grrrr.

Ray – I think as time goes on it does get more difficult to deal with. I use to think 4 and a bit years of TTC was a long time but I met a lady who tried for 8 yrs and had 4 ivf failures behind her at my clinic. It put it all in perspective for me. She did get pregnant and was so incredibly grateful. I am so thankful I only had to wait for as long as I have and it worked. I am not sure I would have the strength to go on for as long as she did. I really think that with your consultant who is so thorough you will get the outcome you have so longed for. Are you doing FET in April?

Cos – You consultant sounds like he speaks a lot of sense. I know it’s hard to keep positive especially after everything you have had to go through. I just know that you will get your baby. I feel it in my bones.

Critter – How was your hols? Thinking of you and MrC.

Buzz - How's little bee?

AFM, today is 12 weeks. I feel relieved to have got here. I still feel quite ill most evenings but I think the worst is over. It still doesn’t really real.

critter that was indeed a year ago as I went through the my crazy plan to carry on as normal and so flew to the US a few days after mcing!

The info about strange sensations post-dtd is interesting. I didn't get the burny sensations or thrush, but I did used to get lower abdominal cramps, sometimes really quite bad, and only after ttc dtd (after years of using barrier methods/withdrawal without having the same).

You sound like you are doing marvellously. I think that the holiday and trip home have really helped. I hope your return to work goes well. x

sea no one has tried the adoption line on me (IRL - I've seen it on threads outside Conception here).

Hurrah for reaching the 12 week milestone! Have you had your 12 week scan yet?

buzz you are such a trooper to be expressing.

Morning lovelies, Just popping in to fluff some tails nelly and fox in particular. Sorry it's all so slow and distant and not how it should be. Talking it over with a counsellor might be sensible, fox, even though it just is crap. :(

Critter welcome back. I am glad you had a good time home and in the sun. Massive good luck for going back to work tomorrow. Take it easy and look after yourself. I am in awe at your resilience. Big sneaky squeeze.

Hurrah for 12-weeks, sea. Like euro noone has tried the why didn't you adopt line on me. I am quite shocked people do that. In some respects I don't regret the IUIs, it took to long, but it got me used to disappointments... And ready and desperate enough for IVF. I have been very open about it to most people...

How's the song-bird, dev? Sorry it keeps on playing up. Getting it checked out properly sounds good.

I had a flap of a day on Friday, so I am up hideously early on Sunday to try and finish the work I should have done then...

Yay sea for 12 weeks! That's fantastic. I didn't stop feeling nauseous until about 20 weeks, and right up until the end there were a couple of things that made me feel sick, like my usually beloved builders tea.

cos did the doctor say why PCOS would be causing mcs? I thought it just caused problems with ovulation. And did he say why progesterone seems to be part of the puzzle for you? I think you asked about grief counselling - I haven't ruled it out but I think I might wait and see for a bit longer. The main thing that is helping at the moment is time and productive distractions. Thinking of you.

euro hurrah that I get to see you in about a month on your next work trip! How is the bump progressing? I got the why don't you adopt comment from one person when I was TTC (who's actually very nice, a childless older woman who never met Mr Right). She was asking in a curious way, not an aggressive way. I just told her that it wasn't right for us and I didn't feel we'd explored all the other avenues yet.

lemon I also told lots of people that our baby was IVF. I wanted to destigmatise it I guess. You sound so happy, it's absolutely lovely and I am so excited for your little boy's arrival. Yay for dinosaurs and fire engines!

Evening all. Critter I almost felt a bit tearful reading your post, you are always so lovely and generous in spite of everything you are going through. I'm so pleased you've had a home trip and nice shopping too. Go easy on yourself going back to work and let us know how you're getting on. Big love.

Thanks everyone for supporting words about de. I'm quite ok about it at the moment and Nelly that is reassuring that I have time and it doesn't have to work first time. This business has made me feel so old.

Buzzy thanks for the things you said. It is so helpful hearing from you and how you feel.

Euro how's your mum?

I've had a very nice day of sewing seeds and sewing clothes. And h is making tea. I could quite happily retire.

And sea - 12 weeks: woo hoo!

critter your trip home sounds like just what you needed. There is nothing like being with close family members. How do you feel about going back to work, it seems very soon but sometimes it is better to get back into a routine. I'll be thinking of you today.

fox and nelly the time pressure is off you now in some respects because you'll be using donor eggs. I think it sounds normal to be feeling detached from it, I was like that in the ivf cycles until the BFN. It's such an unusual thing and not at all what we'd imagined, it's no surprise our brains can't quite catch up with it. What details do you get to choose? I suppose it's a bit academic really because you can't know the recessive traits of a donor.

ten how are you? I've been thinking about you, I can imagine you've felt totally crushed following the cancelled cycle. Have you spoken to the doctors that messed it up?

euro sending best wishes to your mum. How's the bump?

I'm interested in the reactions of people when you say it's an ivf pregnancy. What do people say? Do they look surprised?

dev how are things down below today? Are you going to see the GP?

I should be doing the fet fairly soon. I feel totally detached from it, it's something I've got to do and I've really not considered that it might result in a baby. The 2 ww will coincide with a big family event which will be difficult sober and also will also be hard to hide that I'm not drinking. Of course that's if we get that far. I'm still convinced they won't defrost properly and there will be nothing to transfer. I'm doing a medicated cycle which I'm really not looking forward to.

Ray I'm sure you are in self protection mode. But remember we have excellent fet success stories on this thread and there is no reason it couldn't work out like that for you too. Hug. It's actually recessive genes that make donor feel ok in part for me. There are anomalies in my family like where on earth did my green eyes come from and why is my sibling a foot taller than anyone in our entire family tree. My nephew has untraceable dimples. H has large chunks of estranged family - you never do know really.

There are so many things that affect whether a gene gets turned on or off too, and this probably happens in the womb so that will be you determining many things.

I'm sure it is a self preservation thing, I can't allow myself to think about actually getting pregnant from the fet because I'm so frightened of the disappointment. It's easier just to think of it as a medical procedure. I really must start taking the folic acid again. My diet has been rubbish too since the last ivf round so I'm sure my body is far from optimal fitness.

Critter- i’m glad you managed to get back home for a quick visit. The last 8 weeks must have been a very long. I can’t believe you are going back to work already. Please do take it easy.

Ray – goodness i can’t believe fet is nearly upon you again. do you have to downreg then for this? It’s so easy to worry and to feel detached, it often feels safer to prepare yourself for the worst. Pessimistic people (i’m one) look to the negative because if something doesn’t go according to plan, we can turn around and say ‘well i was right, i knew it would go wrong’. It’s our way of staying in control. Unfortunately in fertility treatment, the law of stats means that many people have to go through quite a few rounds and so we find ourselves being right about things going wrong quite a lot.

Euro – your poor mum. What a shit time she is having.

Nelly – i am sorry you know those panics well. It’s impossible not to fret about all the differences we spot in our cycles and bodies. I’ve been at this 4 years now so of course my cycles are going to change but somehow recently thigns have felt different. Some of those antibiotics by the way are really potent. I hope Mrnelly will be ok on them. apparently in france they treat people with unexplained infertility with antibiotics because for some reason it does the trick for some. Hope you did some fab hobbling over the weekend.

Fox – i am sorry you have had probs with the bird too> How is dhea going? i don’t think i think have bv. Things only smell after dtd. I got tested for bv a few years ago but it was negative. I’m so sorry you have so many unanswered questions about everything. It was never going to be easy going down the DE route but I think it’s natural to want to know why you are having to go down the route. unexplained IF just leaves you with so many questions and as you say when you know so many people have had babies but they have problems that in theory would make them infertile, it makes your situation difficult to understand. I hope they will throw all the drugs at you for DE just to cover their basis. I’m also going to ask about the scratch on Wed but not sure if the nhs do it.

Thanks for your support about my periM worries ladies. it is a genuine fear. AF came 5 days early. It’s really light and i ‘ve had these horrible sweats. Of course when i think ooh i’m a bit hot, i get hotter so difficult to tell whether part of it is in the head. I’ve had 2 weeks of boob pain – before ovulation and even now when af is here. I feel like things are starting to unravel a bit. the only saving grace is that the week long soreness and itching stopped just before AF came. I guess it’s everything getting back in to a balance. I’m prone to severe anxiety when it comes to fertility as it is but throwing in all these other things is making me so panicky. grrr

Devon, have you poas? I just wonder because you said AF was lighter than normal and you had sore boobs. Stranger things have happened. I can't remember if you have a nice GP or not but I wonder if it might be worth you speaking to them and having a non fertility MOT. Hot flushes and sweats can have lots of causes, has your thyroid function been checked recently? I always feel hot when I get stressed or anxious and of course once you're aware of something the worse it is. You have been through so much and as yet there is no light at the end of the tunnel so I think it's totally understandable that you feel panicky. I feel like that too some days. I think it's the uncertainty of it all. I'm hoping that if I get to the point where we give up then I will feel much calmer because the future is certain. Whereas now I don't know if I should be planning for children or not.

I don't have to down reg for the fet. I have to use estradial capsules from day 2 of my cycle. I' dreading this more than injections because I hate messing around down there and I'm sure the progesterone capsules upset things.

critter I hope going back to work went ok. x

Bump is definitely starting to make itself known! Although I am still sure it is mostly cake...

fox and ray thanks for asking, my mum isn't doing too badly. Still in some pain (and the drugs for the DVT mean she has been told not to take anything stronger than paracetemol) but doing pretty well under the circumstances. She has her follow up with the chest specialist today.

ray I don't think people know what to say when I say it is an IVF pregnancy! I should probably stop announcing it. Although it must be comforting for my parents to know that no dtd was involved in the making of this baby.

I was in a similar position before this last IVF round - I had been lax about taking the folic acid, drinking too much and my body was definitely not a temple! It was my office Xmas party the night before EC and I had a small glass of wine with dinner to avert suspicion.

dev the odd odd cycle is to be expected. I am sure you are not in periM, lovely. Think how many eggs you produced when you did your IVF cycles, and they were not that long ago.

I had my 16 week mw appointment today and heard the heartbeat (after a bit of searching around!). Phew.

yay to hearing the heartbeat euro. It's not long now until the next scan is it? Will you find out if it's a boy or girl? Or did you find out with the harmony?

Hello everyone. I'm back - I'm really rubbish at keeping on top of long running threads, and it's been mega busy at work so I haven't had time to be on MN (and my manager was making comments).

So far, nothing. I have PCOS, but it turns out the useless doctor had made a typo on one letter which read "Absy should be on clomiphene", and I queried it as he'd never prescribed it, and he went "ah, yeah. Actually it was meant to read Absy should not be on clomiphene" but didn't do any other follow up on what should be happening. quite an important word to miss out ...
DH had abnormal (2%) morphology and has been on multivitamins and large underwear to try and help.

It's now been over 18 months, and we're trying to get a referal through the NHS (but our GP referred us to the wrong people, so we waited six weeks for an appointment, turned up and the gynae said "you shouldn't have been referred to me" so that was also unhelpful), while seeing at the same time what we can do through private, where the doctor told me to enjoy it. I nearly slapped him.

I'm kind of at a loss, as no one seems to be saying anything definitive like "you should do x" or "you should be taking y medication". One doctor asked me what I think is wrong, and what I think should be happening. Well, I don't have a medical degree, it's why I came to see you ...

Anyway. Sorry, that's a bit of a stream of consciousness rant.

No absolutely not preggo Ray! Perhaps it's the anxiety causing the sweats (will take any excuse). I have found infertility has triggered a lot of anxiety actually. My imagination runs away with me all the time which causes more panic. Very unpleasant.

What are estradiol tablets and what are they suppose to do?

Euro - great about the heartbeat, good god at them having to search for it! no scan can ever be relaxing. Must be so surreal all the same. And yes I hope this is a very odd cycle

Hurrah for positive 16 week scan euro and smiles sea for being at the 12 week mark already. Hope that your Mum' s appointment goes well today euro

critter I am glad that your break did you good and massive good luck for going back to work.

ray Will you just be using the estradial capsules & nothing else? FWIW I felt very detached in the run up to my FET and was convinced that it wouldn't work and that it was just another hoop to jump through. By the time it came to transfer I was very much on board with it and not so detached. I am sure it is your mind trying to protect you from the stress of it all.

fox I am sure that you must feel very detached from your form filling because it is an unusual thing to be doing and something that you hadn't anticipated. What does Milk Thistle do? No I haven't gone Gluten free yet I am having a gluten blow out. I have started the Shred though and may die.

nelly any news on AF?

Dev Aw at your menopause worries. I have been stressing over that too recently, inspired by some other MN threads about Peri menopause. I too am very sweaty at night though it could be our new duvet and my periods have been getting considerably lighter & shorter for a long time now. I also am getting very spotty pre AF in new places like my chest and back. My hair has gone to shit and is lank and thin, I have chronic migraines for the 2 weeks after ovulation, like you my boobs hurt on and off for the whole month and my PMT is ridiculously bad to the point that I hate MrP for 2 weeks of the month and think about walking away I luffs him again when my period starts. Also my ovulation has gone from being really obvious with tell tale EWCM pattern and ov pain to being total guesswork. Oh and my AF came at CD27 this month unlike the usual CD30plus. I keep telling myself that it can't be the start of the menopause but then keep thinking that my last blood tests were over a year ago and things could well have taken a nose dive. And breathe....I had an AF meltdown proper last night too which I haven't had in ages. Lots of snotty crying that I'll never have a baby. Not sure why things are going backwards like this. I've got family ishoos again so maybe that is why.
FWIW Dev I'm glad that you've had some relief from the songbird anyway

absy sorry that you haven't had any straight answers. That is always tough.

It wasn't a scan today, unfortunately - just a listen. I have to wait another 4 weeks to actually see centime again and then all being well, that is it until the end! But hopefully after the next scan. I should start to feel movement. The 12-20 week stage is tough as you can't feel anything, the symptoms fade and you have an 8 week gap between scans. Hearing the heartbeat today halfway through that wait was pretty helpful.

Absy I found the 18 month mark really tough. Bizarrely it was earlier once I hit 2 years. I recall some other 10+ers felt the same at the time. And I'm sorry about the incompetent dr - not helpful!

pout I used to get bucketloads of EWCM (TMI). That stopped around 6 months into ttc (around the time I joined this thread and was just starting to menkul a bit) and never refound its previous volumes! But I was still ovulating and making a nice lining each month, so something was happening in there.

Just a quick one for how to day hope Critter is having a bearable first day back. Thinking of you.

We've just arranged to go to Athens this weekend . This is for aquascan, Mr N's deposit and a consultation. Yikes!

Will post more later when I've sat down to work out logistics. Does anyone want to look after 6 assorted furbabies for a few days

Critter - How was your 1st day back at work? All okay I hope. I am so glad you had some good family time. I am really admire you and how you have coped with such a terrible lost. I hope your work colleagues are supportive. Do take it easy.

Dev - I am sorry about the peri-menopause worries although I am sure it is not that at all. I really think you have been through so much and the stress of long term TTC can do awful things to your body and mind and that's probably what it is. I am glad songbird is going away a bit and hope the upcoming appointment gives you some respite from worries. I am still v hopeful for you. I agree with someone up thread who said you produced loads of eggs so you can't be PM. Very interesting that they treat unexplained infertility with antibotics in France.

Pout - So sorry to hear about family issues. Those are tough to deal with at the best of times. Not what you need when you are dealing with long term ttc as well. Big squeeze to you.

Ray - Not long till your FET and at least you don't have to go through DR again. I understand the self preservation thing. Although I think I always try to think that it will work rather than not and I try to push out bad thoughts.. I do have them but try to ignore them the best I can. I think you asked about reactions to ivf. I told some close friends about it and most have been v supportive. 3 people gave me the adoption line which was annoying. I found most people to be v supportive and want to know more about how it all works. A lot of my friends have had ivf so that helps I think.

Euro - I hope your mum is doing okay. I bet you can't wait till the next scan. It must be reassuring to hear the heartbeat.

Absy - I am sorry the nhs is being useless. All too common unfortunately. I hope you get somewhere with them soon. I find you really have to keep on top of them to get somewhere but they will hopefully deliver in the end.

Lemon - I agree re IUI - it definitely made me desperate for ivf. Hope you didn't have to work too hard...

Fox - Sewing seeds and clothes sound v relaxing.

Nelly - I can't believe you are already going to Athens. Good luck! I have a really good feeling about this one. Serum has a great reputation. I hope you manage to get sometime to sightsee as well.

A bit of bad news from me. I had my 12 week + 2 scan today and it looks like one twin has died. It obviously came as a massive shock as I had my last scan at ARGC less than 2 weeks ago and everything was fine. Both twins were on schedule growth wise and both had really strong heartbeats. From the size it looks like the one that died stopped growing just after my last scan. Obviously there is no way of knowing why it happened. I am slightly embarrassed to admit that I did burst into tears about 5 mins after the sonographer told me. I am usually v good at putting on a brave and waiting until I am at home to fall apart. I am trying to look at the positive at with one there are less risks and if it was going to happen it's better that it happened now than in 2nd or 3rd trimester. Feeling v grateful the other twin seem still to be doing well. Of course now cannot bear the thought of waiting for 8 weeks before 20 week scan so will probably pay for private scans before then.