TTC 10+++ months part 18

[Mrsden]

This is the BFP thread.

cos I'm so so sorry. It's just so unfair. As usual Sar's words are v wise. You have cracked part of the puzzle and are getting to implantation stage now. I'm sure it's just a case of waiting for the right embie. Not that this will make you feel any better right now. Lots of love x

euro that's good that at least the embie sounds like it's made it to implantation. Like mrsd I don't think any of ours ever got that far, although I did wonder on our last full ivf, as I had 1 day of feeling preggo (prob all in my mind...)

Hair product Greek guy was the one I liked, big Greek guy is the one who made it's only a speculum comment as he rammed it in I wanted to shove it up his arse and make the same comment. Tight trouser Greek guy was another one! V intrigued as to which one has the bad reputation ten. We once saw the big one and the tight trouser one having a full blown row in Greek!

mrsd a stalk eh? A sign for sure! I'm ok ta. Due date is Sat and they'll induce me on the 21st if no baby by then I'm hoping fox's full moon will encourage the baby to arrive, as well as bring some luck to the Fred.

gin I quite liked hair product guy too - aside from the view downwards during procedures.

You're going to have a baby by Christmas! How bloody wonderful.

A stork den??? That has to be a sign! When are you going to do a FeT?

Euro - Do you have any thoughts about your high Nk cells? Or don't you think they matter? Just intrigued that you are clearly getting to blasto on a lot of occasions and i wonder whether your immunes are playing a part. A piece of the jigsaw perhaps? Technically the body is doing a good job if it doesn't allow faulty embryos to implant. It is suppose to reject faulty ones. However and impossible to know whether some people's bodies are rejecting good ones. I had strong pinching in my womb 24 hours after both egg transfers. The first time I only thought about it retrospectively after bfp and so I was very aware of it after the second round but because my embryos were so bad I knew it wouldn't take and hence ever so slight hcg in my body. My immunes were being dealt with so I felt confident that my body did a good job not letting me get pregnant. But sometimes I question this immune stuff and I wonder whether I have been sold a great big lie.

Gin and Sar are going to have amazing Xmas stockings this year! I do hope you will still post every now and again after the new arrivals. Come tell us if giving birth is a piece of cake compared to years of fertility struggles!

Ten - I forgot to say how good it is that you are Pupo. Did you get any blasts in the end?

Had to tell off my colleague yesterday. God she moans about being pregnant and feeling fat. She knows about my probs so when she was moaning about putting on weight and stretch marks for the 5th time this week, I told her it was a very small price to pay for having a baby. I think she then twigged I wasn't the right audience to give sympathy!

joy the immune theory makes an awful lot of sense to me, but I no longer believe in it as much as I did. The consultant we saw at CRGH said that the only marker that was high on my results is no longer thought to play a significant role, which means my immune results were effectively normal. But who knows what is going on with us.

Well done you for making the point to her! I'm sure pregnancy isn't a bed of roses for everyone, but you are really not the person to moan at!

Cos - I am so so sorry to hear this news. None of it is fair. I think Sar made some great points. You are getting closer and I hope so so much that you get your baby. Big handhold.

Oh cos, so sorry! I think sar speaks wise words as always. I had a cp after IVF two months before this one... Handhold and hug! Waves to all!

Den an actual stork, that has to be a sign! What's your plan btw, FET? Natural or with meds?

Euro I think that is very interesting and a good sign - there's something reassuring about the consistency, non? And what happens next, I hope you get the news you want (and deserve!). They must still be going at this point. I wonder if any doc has ever done a probability sliding scale of the likelihood of getting to different stages, like I wonder if one part of the development stage is particularly tricky? When will you test?

Joy oh good for you for speaking up! And I agree about this immune theory it's so hard to know what to believe. My consultant Mr 'No evidence' is adamantly against it - says there's no evidence funnily enough.

Thank you all for your good wishes today. It makes such a difference to have a group like you lot who all know and understand and say such nice things! Sar I re-read your post several times this morning, thank you. Especially kind as you and Gin should probably be relaxing instead of following our dramas!

So just to thread hog for a minute (sorry) I went to see Mr No evidence this afternoon as I had booked it to discuss what meds to carry on taking for the pg (oh well..), ((and I have to say what a difference to see someone who not just remembers you, but actually knows you and your history - I said 'I have a confession to make (meaning the gestone) and he said 'you always have a confession to make'!)) He's really very sweet and quite cautious and balanced. Anyway I digress. So basically we ended up discussing that if I wanted to I could go and have a couple of scans on a normal cycle and then 1/2 days after ov take the dosage of progesterone he would be recommending if it was an Ivf cycle (400mg cyclogest twice daily plus 50mg gestone injection every other day - about twice what I took this time). He is not very hopeful for this because, you guessed it, there's no evidence it will work. So can I please just take a quick straw poll regardi f what I should do next. Options are:
a) as per above
b) FET with above progesterone
c) fresh Ivf with above prog
d) go to to the warwick implantation clinic and have womb nk cells measured etc which from what ive read is likely to lead to treatment plan of extra progesterone plus steroid immune treatment
e) go back to Shehata for more full on immune treatment with god knows what in terms of conception assistance.

Gah. So confused. Plan a would prob cost £300 per cycle and is local with least drugs, and I could probably have a few goes at it if I wanted. Shall I go for them in order of least to most quantity of drugs and cost do you think? So far best success is with FET, prog and immune, and this cp was just prog. What would you do?

Cos what were your immune results like when you saw shehata?

The nk cell count was normal but activation level was extremely high. Rest was normal but he doesn't do full Chicago tests.

Cos NOOO I am so sorry that is utterly utterly shit. The other ladies have all said wise words, but I cant imagine how disappointed you must feel. It did happen though, and although it is of little comfort I am sure this is a positive step. In terms of your next steps I’m afraid I don’t really understand the NK cells etc but my preference would be to give it a few months on the least drugs/stress protocol so I think that is option A, because all you do is loose a few months and if you don’t try you never know. But as I said I have no idea about these things at all.

Sea Grand frommage at a training course in front of a hundred new grads when asked about the lack of senior women in our business ‘well my wife stays home to look after the children, lots of women want to just do that what’s the problem’. Sigh. Hope the DR is going well.

Coco Occasionally (or more than that) it does you good to have a blow out. I keep forgetting I am not meant to drink lots of coffee or diet coke etc each day at the moment (which is weird as usually I am strictly a one cup a day girl anyway). Enjoy it, sod the guilt!

Euro Interesting about the implantation pains, that is a good sign I know you have been here before but at least you are here again, this is good news so far! The greek guy I don’t like looks a bit rubbery (that is the only way I can describe it, so not only do I find his attitude offensive he gives me the heebie jeebies, less than ideal when putting your feet in stirrups.

Gin I have only seen one greek guy there, I think he has both hair product and glasses and he isn’t massive but he isn’t small either (Mr T is quite a big guy so my idea of what is big and small is a bit wonky). Nearly there now – how exciting!!! Start trying all the old wives tales now!

Den Stork is definitely a sign!

Joy I don’t know yet, they called me today and said they hadn’t reached blasto yet and they would call me tomorrow to let me know if they do by then, I guess if they don’t at that stage they just die or whatever??? It is all a mystery to me. It surprises me that people are still as insensitive as your colleague. In my peer group people don’t complain about pregnancy symptoms, I think it is because 1) they are aware they brought this on themselves therefore sympathy (like for hangovers) is not deserved and 2) we are of an age that some have trouble so they should just shut up and be grateful. I am especially gobsmacked given she knows you are trying etc!

Waves to Buzzy Pout Lemons Sar Buzzy CritterSweetFox and everyone else I have missed!

AFM no signs or symptoms, apart from forgetting and going to have a glass of wine/coffee before remembering I cant. I have missed a work Christmas part tonight, I cant face any more people asking me if I am pregnant as I am not drinking (yes people are still this moronic). I have no faith this has worked as I don’t think they were great embies, so fine, we luckily have another cycle in Jan lined up on the NHS so I will just look forward to that, and having lots of champagne on NYE..! There is ALWAYS a bright side hey.

Cos - if I were in your shoes I would probably go for either FET or fresh cycle with above prog support. Would you consider doing Chicago immunes somewhere? I think there are other places that do it apart from the Argy. I would be a bit wary of Warwick because I know they actually do a biopsy (my relative - who does fertility treatments always warned me against this). This is just my personal opinion. You do make embies and they do implant or try to implant so it feels like maybe with just the right support you will get there.

I agree with Joy and Euro about immunes. Despite my choice of clinics I am 50/50 about immunes but all my scientist friends seems it isn't just a money making scheme. I think it makes sense to go down that route if implantation is an issue though. I actually think it makes less sense for people (like me) who have never even been preg or had a cp... but who knows. what are you leaning towards?

Mrsd - A stoke is a good sign indeed.

Joy - You did well to tell your colleague. Some people need a reality check.

Ten - at the big cheese. These attitudes never ceases to amaze me. My acu always tells me there really aren't many signs until you are much further along. I am still very hopeful it's your turn for a BFP.

Gin & Sar - I really feel happy "seeing" how far along you ladies are and you are almost there.

Waves to everyone.

cos Prof Q and Prof B released a paper on immunes , sounds like your guy hasn't read it, perhaps see Gorgy, there is also Reagan and Dr N at Zita West. Prof Q, is very good too, she does a biopsy which I have been told is more acurate than just bloods, maybe talk to the girls on the Pred thread most have started with Shehata but have also seen one of the others mentioned above.

Cos. I am so sorry this has happened to you, I can't even express it. Sar gives brilliant advice though. Whilst I'm sure it doesn't feel like it now, this is a positive thing in that you are discovering what helps your body. Now it's about continuing to explore and tweak - I really think you will do this. As for what to do next, I've been thinking about this and a bit like you I'm torn between exploring the more minimal treatment options or going full guns blazing, it's hard. I think this shows you can do this without ivf but with prog or prog and immune stuff? Might be worth an explore before putting yourself through the ivf wringer again? You can still do that later down the line next year? But I understand just wanting to fully maximise everything too. I wish I could just come round and give you a big fat hug.

I'm not getting chance to read much as I'm teaching so much at the moment. But love to euro - it's a good sign I think. And ten, hold in there.

I need to sleep for a year. General ten plus loves in every direction.

Cos - you make blasts and you have made a lot of frosties so on this basis I think you don't have to worry about that area. I think everything with you points to implantation issues. On this basis, I therefore think that you should be looking at treatment with progesterone but alongside immunes. I think those are the two main things that help implantation aren't they? So if I was in your position I would probably get the Chicago tests done and then do the FET alongside progesterone and immunes. I dont know much about the biopsy stuff but if it shows high nk cells , is the treatment any different? Whilst waiting for fet, I think it would be good to see if you can do some natural cycles with progesterone and a few Benadryl on the side!. But mr evidence surely doesn't need to scan you for this as you know when you ovulate, he just needs to supply you with the progesterone. Scans are so expensive. I can't help but feel you need some steroids or something that you could take when you get your next bfp just so you are covering your bases. If FET didn't work I would think about doing a fresh cycle. You have now been pregnant twice this year and I just think it is only a matter if time. I really sense you are getting so close now . I do suspect your ivf pregnancy was a chromosome issue so utter bad luck and it just seems a coincidence that you were having all the immune treatments at that time and you got to 7-8 weeks. How are you feeling after the horrible roller coaster of the last few days?
Be back tomorrow, sorry if doesnt make sense, I have drifted off several times whilst trying to write this!

Cos - I'm so sorry that this happened to you. I do think it is a positive sign that you got a bfp after taking progesterone. I would probably follow someone else's (likely wiser) advice than my own. I think Sar really put everything in perspective and that joy, fox, buzzy, sea gave quite a bit food for thought. Once again - I am sending you a huge hug.

Joy - Good for you for saying something. I can't believe that she was complaining to you about her pregnancy woes. That is just so insensitive.

Fox - good luck with the teaching. I always found it got busy close to exams and holiday breaks. This is the first fall in a few years that I have done none!

Ten - No signs or symptoms is not a bad thing. Keep sticking in there!

Gin and Sar - Good luck with the impending labour. It's amazing you will likely have your babies before Christmas.

Waves, tail feathers and some of the cookies I just made to everyone and anyone I have missed.

ten and euro, still hoping hard for you two and everyone else. cos, i said it before but i am very sorry it didn't work out this time.

the doctor's visit yesterday went ok. he did a scan, there is a tiny sac, nothing else to see. could be too early. he's prescribed progesterone to be inserted twice a day. I'm doing this in a foreign language so I had to ask him and the nurse to repeat the instruction to make sure I'd understood. Next visit is 3 weeks and 5 days to see if it's stuck and if there is anything in the sac. so I will just lurk quietly until then.

I forgot - HCG values were ok at 4870 mIU/ml

cos I have nothing to add - you've had some great advice above. Oh just one thing actually, have you tried the scratch? I can't remember. It's another thing that is supposed to help with implantation.

free the HCG seems nice and high. How far along do you think you are?

AFM, I've had more cramps this morning. The bean is clearly trying, at least.

Come on euro bean

euro I think the 4th or 5th week. I'm hoping 4th as there was really nothing to see in the scan at all. Other than a black dot. I am wondering about cancelling Christmas travel. I've got some worrying crampy feelings. Trying not to hope too hard. Impossible.

I think some cramping is normal as your womb reshapes from flat to round to accommodate bean. That scan does sound extremely early, so try not to worry about not seeing much. Fingers crossed!

Free- The HCG seems quite good. 4-5 weeks is super early for a scan, I think it is normal not to see much.

Euro- I am cheering this bean along.

AFM - I just found out I am group B strep positive, which means the Drs are trying to decide if I should start antibiotics now, get IV antibiotics during labour or if they should do both.

Gin - If I recall, you are also group B strep positive. If you don't mind sharing, what is your treatment plan?

Euro and Free, cramping sounds good news, come on the beans. Wishing you both loads of luck.

Thanks all and apologies for the self involvement.

You are not being self-involved at all!

How are you feeling today?

You're not self involved cos. and even if you were you're allowed to be. I feel so upset on your behalf so I can't imagine how you're feeling. Tight squeeze for you.

Euro, that sounds quite promising if you feel like something's happening.

I'm grumpy this evening, dh is at a last minute arranged works thing and I'm home alone feeling sorry for myself. He better be up for Xmas shopping tomorrow morning because it's all his family left to buy for and I'm not doing it alone. Even if he has a hangover from Hell.

MrsD what is it with men, I always do my own / my family shopping alone and then have to do all his jointly! Grrr.

I feel most odd - very physically exhausted and quite dizzy but like its just cos my brain's had enough and is just offloading it elsewhere. Skipped Xmas work drinks.

Euro when will you test?