TTC 10+++ months part 18

[Mrsden]

This is the BFP thread.

Euro, I'll be thinking about you on Monday. I think if ever do get pregnant I might have the harmony test, I looked it up and it's offered over here too now. When we had the genetic counseling, the counsellor did say that she recommended having amino or cvs for icsi pregnancies which shocked me a bit.

Devon, we had quite a long chat with our dr about the the pros and cons of day 2 and day 5 transfers. I had thought it wasn't possible to go to blast here but it is with certain restrictions. My dr is of the view that whilst waiting to day 5 can be beneficial in terms of giving diagnostic info, ie when do they fail, how do they develop, he thinks it's better to get them back in the womb as soon as possible. He said there just weren't enough long term studies on day 5 children yet and that there are some concerns but nothing backed by evidence that there might be some long term implications. I try not to think of this though, if only we all had the luxury of leaving it to Mother Nature.

Gin, art, princess - have any of you given serious thought to having a second baby? Something that scares me is that I'd need to go through this all again. But, I don't know of I'd ever feel like my family is complete with one baby. It's so tough.

Pout, I'm sorry you're feeling blue. I'm in a bit of a pit too. I had been really quite positive but I've had a bad few days for various reasons and it's left me feeling a bit defeated with everything. I can't ever imagine being a mum. I spent a few hours this morning with a friend and her 18month old and I felt really quite sad that I might never get to experience motherhood. It's like such an alien world to me.

Fox, how are you doing lovely?

Critter, fresh air is always a tonic. Is it snowy over there?

Devon we had two embies put back at day 3 which were the best developed of the bunch. Both graded B/C in the clinic's system, one 7 and one 8 cell. I was gutted at the time, I thought that because we didn't get any to blast stage our embies were no good. One didn't make it but the other is now nearly 6 months old and trying to break me with sleep deprivation . The consultant was of the firm opinion that the best place for embies to be was back inside mum, but I guess he might have said something different if we had gone to blast and done a 5 day transfer instead. From what I've read I don't know if a direct correlation between embryo quality and outcome has yet been proven, and clearly there is more going on with any embie than they are able to observe.

Euro hope all goes well with the harmony test. If we could have had it anywhere locally we'd have done the same. FWIW my age related risk factor for Down's was high, about 1:100, but we did the NHS combined test and got a ratio of 1:22,000 back. The population based statistics freaked me out but are no indication of your personal risk.

Ray we don't want to have any more children. I'm sure that if I'd been an instadiffer or if I was 5 or 10 years younger I'd feel differently, but i feel beyond lucky to have been successful with IVF against all the odds and having even one child was something I could not imagine 18 months ago. I'm 40 now so if we wanted another we'd need to be starting to think about it pretty soon good god I would have to consider having sex and the odds would be stacked against us even if we had been instadiffs first time around. I could not face going back to the trauma and uncertainty of TTC, much less afford financially or emotionally to face IVF again. I can't imagine we would be that lucky a second time. But age is perhaps the biggest factor in all this. Mr A is a few years older than than me and took a lot of persuading to have even one child, so the fact that he doesn't want any more makes it easier for me to see that decision as final, if that makes any sense. However we do know that when the time is right we will definitely have another cat

Big luffs to all 10plussers this weekend. I hope the weather isn't giving you too much of a beating wherever you are and that you're doing foodie/crafty/ couply/ pampery things to give yourself some TLC.

Hey ladies I have been reading while I have been away but connection was not great and my phone is really old but I love it and refuse to upgrade

critter getting out in the sunshine is great, thank you for your support, the picture is beautiful

sea I did think twins for you, sorry about the redundancy, that happened to us with Barry as we were making plans to get married, but for us and our age life just had to carry, can't piss about and wait. You will manage some how, people like us always do :)

nelly I took 75 mgs and did find I looked like some greasy spotty youf but that was the only side affect I had from the stuff

doll good to hear from you, I agree its not about biology, hope mini and baby doll are ok, and you too

ten I know we are using different parts of the hospital but my part is pretty good if you choose to use them :)

devon most NHS trusts have a stupid system of paper notes that get lost and computer notes, most read the computer notes, it is frustrating having to repeat your history, they should in theory, look at your notes just before you go in so they are familiar with your story.
I think too much emphasis is put on things like AMH, a colleagues daughter who is 29 is having IVF her results are similar to mine but they did manage to get 13 eggs from her

ray agree with others that you have had full immune testing, I found it comforting to have a 'reason' why things didn't work.

cos I will be thinking of you tomorrow at your scan my lovely

euro the men killing never seems to stop, I hope the scan is reassuring for you tomorrow, it feels like continuous hope jumping just to get to the next stage

lemon what a bitch colleague, obviously she is jealous of having to share the lime light, I looked fat until about 36 weeks.

pout and foxy big hugs to you both and hello to anyone I have missed,

we are finally home being induced early, giving birth was horrendous for me, not what I thought it would be but not as frightening as I had thought either, but worth it all, it was quite strange due to being high on gas/air but it felt slightly surreal being handed a baby, made me think where did she come from, to be honest I would feel the same if she had been adopted, I don't feel squeezing her out has made me love/bond with her anymore.

She is a boob refuser, honestly the look on her face when I get them out so I'm trying to express, she hates being home so we are in for some fun times

It is sunday catch up time (though a little early for cuntryfile). I have wandered away from Mumsnet this week to try and just be in my life without thoughts of babies and failing to make them. Have done my best to catch up today though and read back. Loads of things I want to say.

Lovely Critter I really think about you so much. Thank you for posting a picture of James and I too so wish he was just asleep, it is so sad. I am in constant awe at how dignified and together your posts are and was glad you got outside to breathe in some fresh air with Mr C. Whenever you need support you know we are all here. With regards to the scar, my tummy scar is now eighteen months on and is soft, pale and pain free. I lost a lot of skin sensation but that is coming back bit by bit. Please only go back to work when it feels right. Big big loves to you. Oh and I am glad for your sister that she has this back up plan. I don't regret not trying sooner as I wouldn't be with H. But I do wish I had known to freeze my eggs in my early twenties. I'd have done it a few times if I'd had a crystal ball!

Buzzy you laid a human! I snuck on the grads thread to read your story, it sounds intense and I'm glad you're all home, scary boobs and all .

Sea - double sea babies! I knew that number sounded high. How lovely that you have been through all that waiting and gruesome treatment and that you were greeted by two beating hearts. I'm so pleased for you.

Ray, my feeling is very much like art, should we ever get there. I have twinges of sadness that we will only ever be a one child family but I also like the thought of us being a tight little unit. I will not put myself through this, or any treatment again. It is great that you are having all those tests for such a good price.

Devon, the nhs might well work for you. Maybe less meddling will be less stressful too.

Cos - how are you holding up? Is it your next scan tomorrow. I am hoping for you so much. It is lovely you met up with Princess and Mini Princess for cuddles. I could do with some 10 plus company - Nelly we need to make a date!

Euro, I hope all is starting to feel real for you now. I can't believe you are ten weeks already.

Pout, I am sorry you are in the land of tent. Come and sit with me. Cheap ivf might be a way though?

I am muddling on. The letter to request donor egg had not even left the clinic last week so in for the long haul again. I am hoping we might get a round this summer. I am still struggling with what it all means. When I first started trying the thought of ivf was so scary but it was there, as an option that would hopefully work, given enough tries. When you find out that you can't have this treatment and that it can't work for you it is very horrible. I still struggle to make sense of knowing that no amount of drugs will ever make me make more than 1-2 eggs. I was speaking with someone who is just about to start trying recently. She knows I have tried for three years. She asked if I'd tried timing sex around ovulation. I felt like such a ...veteran. When I first started trying I knew of not one person who had taken more than 2 months to conceive. Now in RL I know of loads of people who are in the same boat as me, with both first and second babies. Maybe it is as my peers get older. Oddly I don't even think three years is that long to try anymore. Babies just take a sodding long time to make for some people and come from a variety of means. But I am still angry that it is me that it is happening to and wish I was one of the lucky ones.

I always love to see a big Fox post but I'm sorry you are struggling. Just want to offer a paw hold. It is tough being a battle scarred veteran and it is not fair but you have borne your struggles with eloquent good grace. I do believe you will get your family Fox. I like the idea of a tight unit. I know I am not likely to be the kind of 10+ company you need but I have babysitting services on tap so if you feel it would help just shout x

Art that is so so kind, thank you. I think I haven't been posting as I feel like I just sound miserable. I guess it has only been a relatively little while to take it all in. I'm really touched by that post

fox it's fine to post when you feel miserable. I find I don't really feel the need to post on here when I feel ok about things, so I'm sure I come across as a right misery because my posts always sound so down. It's just there isn't a way to talk about this all in real life and so I can write it down on here and it helps.

For what it's worth, I do think you're going to get there one way or another. Will the nhs fund donor egg? Is going abroad a possibility if not?

Art, I don't know why I'm even thinking about second babies when I haven't got the first yet. I feel sad when I read about people being desperate for a second because I know that if I am lucky enough to get pregnant then I'm unlikely to do it a second time and I want to hear that it's ok. I like the sound of another cat!

Buzz, what is it like to be home? What does Kayla think of her new friend?

Good luck today euro and cos

I'm not sleeping well at the moment. Lots of anxiety dreams and waking up with clenched jaw, achey muscles. I feel like we need a holiday somewhere warm but I've got to wait for July for that.

critter James is gorgeous. Thank you so much for sharing his picture. Day at a time sweetheart. Glad the sunshine helped.
sea congrats on the twins. How terribly exciting. Sucks about MrS and the job. I hope that comes good soon. MrTeu and I have both been through redundancy in the last 3 years. The timing is never good.
euro hope the scan is ok today.
fox Art said it so well. Have another paw if you need.
All very much in my thoughts just now ladies. I'll just leave a carrot cake here for those that might like a bit.

Thanks teu. Ray I think I come across as a misery too but rest assured it's easy to see the real person behind the outpourings, promise. I guess it's a bit like diaries. I could have written yesterday about the lovely night out we had with friends in sat, upcoming holiday excitement and exciting work opps I'm taking up (where pregnancy would NOT go down well) but I feel I can unleash the inner feelings here. I dont know if the nhs will fund donor. Research says they won't without an appeal. I know I'll summon up energy to do that but I wish it was all a bit more joined up and less like I have to beg for treatment. Going abroad doesn't feel right for me, though I wish it did.

Thinking of euro and cos today. I so hope you get the good news you deserve.

fox a big paw squeeze from me too. You have been through such a lot with the big op etc and been so very patient with The System - I think you have been incredibly brave. Hang in there, you will be a mother one day, I'm sure of it.

ray I think you would very much feel ok with just the one. When I was pregnant, it did bother me and I spent some time feeling very sad that we wouldn't be able to supply ginster with a sibling (ungrateful bitch I know!). We can't afford any more ivf and I couldn't put myself through it all again, plus there's v little guarantee that it'd work again. However now ginster is here, I really do feel she's enough for me and I too have the tight little family unit feeling. I utterly adore her, feel so grateful to have her and want to put all my efforts into making her life a happy one. Plus, something I find people rarely fess up to (or maybe it's just our experience after a hard labour) the first few weeks are really really hard. I can't imagine doing them with a toddler to look after. Maybe my feelings will change, but at the moment, I'm more than happy with my one miracle baby. Hope that's some comfort to you.

Waves and luffs to everyone else.

It's so frustrating that money comes into this. I wish it wasn't a system where you have to fight for funding. Did you ever get an apology over the big op, fox?

Gin, were you prepared for how hard it would be? Or is it something where you really can't imagine how hard it's going to be? Is it getting easier now?

Quick work post to say good luck to cos and euro!

Tail fluff for fox! And neither you nor ray sound miserygutslike. Just real honest people that have a bit of a struggle now and again.

Re: second children, we'd definitely go back for our frosties, but beyond that I really don't know. First need to lay this one safe and sound!

Thinking of you all, esp critter!

Cos thinking of you today. Hugs.

Fox I don't think you come across as miserable. You come across as someone trying their hardest to deal with the shitty hand they have been done. And doing it incredibly well too. Paw squeezes from me too.

Ray I'm so sorry about the anxiety. I empathise completely as I suffer from terrible achey jaw / panic attacks when I'm stressed. Thinking of you lots. When do you get your results back? About babies and more children. Well, I would like more but feel utterly and stupendously lucky to have mini princess, so I won't be heartbroken if it doesn't happen. Mr p is an only and had a wonderful childhood and no longing for siblings; I had siblings and often wanted to vaporise them! We aren't taking any precautions at the moment and if it happens, it happens. I did Poas for the first time since having mini princess a couple of weeks ago and it was a bfn and it's the first time I haven't cried at that. I'm done with TTC worrying and really mini princess and mr p are plenty for me. I didn't think of get one, so I'm not going to be greedy! A sibling would just be a wonderful bonus. The only thing I'm considering is going back to the brown diet as I've let go completely in the diet stakes but more for balancing my hormones and the benefit of everyone else.

I'm also a bit weird in that I didn't really struggle with the first few weeks (apart from a cracked nipple which took 3 weeks to heal) but have found other times harder. In fact, I loved the first few weeks a lot. I feel very nostalgic about it and the birth. I was just very, very lucky to be able to have the birth I did and I think that and easy bf'ing made the difference. This isn't supposed to be a weird boast but just another perspective. In any case our nemesis is teeth and there have been days where I've had to call mr p home from work or sobbed uncontrollably into him saying what a terrible mother I am. And I've snapped when I'm exhausted and she won't go to sleep and it's midnight! Not very often though. I think some or a lot of this is totally normal. The smiles, giggles, snuggly cuddles completely outweigh any of the bad stuff and make all of the TTC very worthwhile. I feel very privileged everyday Xxx

Thinking of you all xxx

Hi ladies. Thanks so much for your lovely comments.
I want to do a proper catch up but it's not going to be possible today.
Just wanted to say GOOD LUCK to Cos and Euro for today.
Love to all other 10 plussers.

Euro and Cos – thinking about you today.

Fox – it’s perfectly ok to come on here and let everything out if it helps. It is a huge thing you are having to come to terms with. But interesting that you are finding more people with issues now. I only know one person who is still trying after 18 months and to me that doesn’t sound long at all even though i was beside myself after 6 months! I must say I still find it extraordinary that most people conceive easily. A baby must be one of the most precious gifts you can be given, yet for most, it comes so easily. My mother keeps telling me that good things come to those who wait and by god she better be right.

Art – that’s really interesting, thanks for posting the deets. I wonder if baby Art is the 7 cell or 8 cell. I don’t think it gets better than 8 cell on day 3. I remember you being gutted about not getting any frosties. I know it seems ridiculous me wanting all the details of your experience as we are all so completely different. I guess it’s just a reassurance thing and provides some hope!

Buzz – so wonderful to hear that you are all ok after little buzz’s birth. Take care now and keep us posted.

Gin – i’m curious to know why it is so hard in the first few weeks. Is it because it is a steep learning curve, the shock or is it the sleep depravation? I wonder whether your feelings will change about a 2nd. One lady i spoke to said the desire for a 2nd kicked in after a year and having had battled for one baby she had promised herself she would always be grateful for just the one. However, when i was speaking to her at the Argy, she said the intensity was stronger the second time round because she knew what she was missing. That’s of course just one person’s experience and it will be fascinating to see whether any of the ten plussers will have the same thing happen....as I know at one point or another, we must have all said that we would be grateful for just one which is of course better than none.

I have to say, I do find it lovely how we have our grads still posting. I feel well and truly welded in to the conception forum with no chance of graduating any time soon and I find it fascinating to hear how you all getting along. I feel I want to know more about it from people who have had hard wins and I wonder whether you ladies are more laid back about things over people who haven’t had trouble.

Eeek.. Sorry Euro good luck for your scan today too. Xx

fox I'm sorry that things are moving so slowly. It really doesn't help, does it?

ray I feel for you. I am a terrible teeth grinder. I have a mouth guard but hate wearing it. I'm surprised my teeth are not just stumps after the past few years!

princess I think that is how I will feel about a second if this one works out. I can't see us ever using contraception again, but nor can I see us going back down the IVF route. If it happens, it happens.

critter you, mr c and the beautiful James are often in my thoughts. I hope you are holding up ok and that sister critter is being great company for you.

cos I'm thinking positive thoughts for you.

AFM, the Harmony bloods have been drawn - results in two weeks. We had the scan and it was all good. I am amazed every time we get good news - after 3 years of only bad, I find it difficult to accept.

Great news euro.

I don't know anyone who has tried for as long as me in real life. That's probably reflective of the fact that most of my friends are early thirties. I do wonder if my currently single friends might have problems when they do want a baby. I also find secondary infertility strange, that someone can manage it the first time round and then have problems. Again, I don't know anyone with this. 2-3 years seems to be the common age gap amongst friends. I know what you mean about getting the precious gift so easily, Devon. I find it so odd that it's so easy for people and I wonder how they can really appreciate something that was so easy.

Princess I completely agree that everyone here has a special place in my heart and esteem and I wish we could meet up more often. I would definately be up for another London meet up if others were. And it was very special seeing a fellow 10 plusser completely on the other side, a good reminder of where we all want to get to.

Sea how are you feeling, what monitoring will they give you now? I utterly understand the wobbly legs.

Dev (I still think the name Joy suited you better!) thinking of you and hope you're ok. Art's example is very interesting and like Euro said it seems unlikely they managed to pick the 1 that was going to make it. My mum says that saying too along with the waiting will make it all the sweeter.

Art and Fox I love the idea of a tight unit of three. Growing up with siblings it seems automatic to want them, but one of the bubbliest brightest friends I know is an only and ever since knowing her I've thought how nice it could be.

Pout how funny about the snake dream?! I wonder what that meant. I did google snake dreams but didn't find anything that said 'both of you will end up with healthy babies in a year' so stopped looking! I'm sure it did mean that though. Sorry for the idiot GP. They do only get 7 mins per patient, I wouldn't worry he thought that through properly.

And I totally agree this is a great place for letting out fears and worries and in a sad way it's reassuring to know you're not alone and others feel these things too. I'm another teeth grinder Ray, achy jaws are not good. A holiday in the sun sounds good.

Euro just seen your news, thats great about the good scan. fingers crossed for the harmony results.

Thanks so much to you all for all the good wishes. You know that thing where you read stories on the Internet and some are fine, some not, and always in my life before ttc I would've thought 'oh it'll all be fine' and now I think 'oh I'm one of the ones where it won't be fine'. Horrible how this crap changes you. Or maybe it's self protection? So anyway I went for the scan and they started off trying to scan through my belly (yeah right - she couldn't see anything) (and also ive always had some romantic vision about those scans but it blooming well hurt she was pushing down so hard trying to find something) so then had the internal 'to check' and she was talking about my bicornate (heart shaped) uterus and showed me the left 'horn' and some black blob she measured which was just some blood or something and then went to the right horn and was like 'oh look at that there's a tiny heartbeat'. I don't know if the resolution was changed since last week but it looked really tiny. She said the crown rump length was 3mm and the gestational sac was now 9.5 mm which was small. So inevitably I was most focused on the small sac size (last week was 7mm so doesn't seem to have gone up much?). Anyway, it's still having a go and there's definately development since last week. We shall see, the epu want to see me again in 3 weeks and I need to go to my clinic to get meds in 10 days so will be closely tracked. They did give me a sheet to give my gp and I did note the conclusion at the bottom of the page was 'normal inter uterine pregnancy'. Fingers crossed that's what it is?!

Waves and squeezes all round

euro how absolutely brilliant that the scan went well. I am so incredibly thrilled, you have had such a crappy time of it getting here. Thinking of you and your little bean.

cos sending you lots of positive thoughts today. I so hope you have some reassurance. Massive hug.

fox oh honey I am sorry you're having such a hard time. I agree that you don't sound like a misery, just like someone trying to cope with grief. Long-term TTC of the sort you are going through is like managing chronic pain. It's exhausting and there are waves of it. Sometimes we manage to distract ourselves and cope and sometimes it comes rearing back and is unbearable. And the waiting, oh the awful waiting. It's interminable and there's nothing you can do but keep putting one foot in front of the other and trudging on through it. I talked to sister critter a lot about all this at the weekend (she's just gone home) because she's been through a lot of crap in the past few years and she said that the hardest thing with managing pain is not knowing when it's going to end but having to keep going day after day. You are coping bravely with the rotten, rotten luck you have had. We are here to talk about it. On the DE front - it's a lot to think about. One thing that did give me pause when I was thinking about it was that the person I love most in the world, that I would die for, is not related to me at all. Biology is a strange thing.

ray I don't think it's weird you're thinking about second babies. Why shouldn't you? It's unfair that just because we're struggling to have one, we can't dream about having the family of two kids or even three, that many others can have so easily.

gin I am amazed at people who have difficult births and then go home to look after toddlers. I don't know how they do it - for instance, the fact that doll had little doll to look after following her c section blows my mind. MrC is an only child, as is my dad, and they are the two most wonderful, wise and generous people I know, so I am all in favour of only children. They are kind of like little adults. I would say you don't have to decide right now about other babies - who knows what the future may hold.

Thanks so everyone who has said such nice things about James. MrC has much better photos than the one I put up, where you can see his face more clearly, but I'm avoiding looking at them because they make me crave him like an addict that's gone cold turkey. But I am doing ok - MrC has been amazing at calming and comforting me. It's my 2 week follow up appointment with the midwife tomorrow. I think it's mainly so she can check I am not going crazy. We had a lot of distractions this weekend with sister critter here, friends coming over to watch the Superbowl, and MIL's birthday so that was helpful.

Oh cos I think that sounds like great news. And it's grown by just over 25%, which I think is a lot. I'm holding out lots of hope for you. A normal inter uterine pregnancy are the words you need to hold onto right now :)

xpost cos I was reading through your post frantically hoping it would have a good ending and phew, hurrah for a heartbeat! It's great that they are monitoring you so closely and I can completely understand why you still feel cautious. Sending you and the little one lots and lots of love and luck.

cos! I think that sounds like good news! The measurements at this time are so tiny that a mm or so can make a big difference and the fact there has been growth is a v good sign. Ginster's crown to rump measurement at 7 weeks was small. I hope the next few weeks pass quickly.

euro hurrah for all being well! I know it is hard to believe that everything is ok, but really it is!

ray it was only since I got to my mid 30s that friends have started having fertility investigations. I think it probably reflects the fact that many didn't start trying until the last year or so. Now we 35, the fertility investigations (and NHS ivf) happen more quickly, which seems a bit unfair!

dev I don't think I'm more laid back (I am a born worrier!), but I now feel that my worries about the baby are normal and what other people experience. Maybe I feel a bit more guilty than normals if I do have a day I don't enjoy so much, having wanted the baby so much? I was v anxious throughout the pregnancy, right up until ginster actually arrived, which I think was a result of our hard ttc journey and wasn't understood by Instadiffs.

As princess has said, everyone's experiences of the first few weeks are v different. We started off utterly sleep deprived, having had no sleep in hospital for 4 days (2 days trying 2 get the baby out and we were then kept in 2 days) and then had issues with feeding and weight gain, along with some bad, conflicting advice from different midwives, which made things hard. I was also pretty immobile for a week or so which didn't help. I don't think you can prepare ray, but going with your instinct is important. And it does get easier, as you work out what works with your baby and recover from labour. It is totally worth it and for every hard thing, there is something utterly adorable and amazing that makes it more than worthwhile. Getting to know our tiny human in the first weeks was v special and I even have fond memories of the final pushing stage of labour which was extraordinary. I can't even begin to put into words the love mr g and I have for her (which I can't imagine sharing with another child at the mo) and we both spend hours staring at her and feeling so incredibly grateful for her and satisfied with what we have. I hope this continues and I don't end up desperate for a no. 2, as we have no way of achieving that.

Sorry this is prob v inappropriate for a ttc thread. But you know I love you guys and so want it to happen for you too.

X post lovely critter. Sorry my post now seems incredibly insensitive and I do hope hasn't brought you any more pain. I'm so pleased you had a nice time with sister critter and were able to talk through your pain. I still think you are incredibly brave and an amazing human being. Lovely to hear that you know some super only children.

cos a heartbeat and growth is fantastic. I'm so pleased for you.

gin that is a lovely post.