TTC 10 months + Part 17.

[MuddyWellyNelly]

For all the lovely 10+ers, and anyone else lurking, who has been trying for long enough to start worrying. This is a great place to rest until the elusive BFP shows up.

[MuddyWellyNelly]

Joy those are all the things going through my head. But the way you put it (ie essentially the baby would be the product of Mr N and my friend) might be very hard to deal with. On the one hand I am excited about the prospect of knowing my donor has gorgeous children with great temperaments etc; on the other, I was thinking about EC day and realising I wouldn't want to be there when it happened. I was thinking I would feel jealous that she was the one going into theatre and not me. But would that be the case whether it was someone I don't know too, just with the distance aspect? It's such a minefield. Thank you for your perspective.

How do you feel about DE? Before yesterday I was sure I wanted another go myself. Today though I feel lighter and more optimistic, and maybe I am closer to it than I thought. Perhaps I just need that pressure to be gone?

[MuddyWellyNelly]

I killed the thread

[joycep]

Nelly it’s difficult isn’t it. For me, and this is just my own insecurities, I think I may feel threatened if I used a friend’s eggs. Perhaps once you give birth, then it all becomes normal but I would worry that there would be a close or even better bond between child and my friend. But then again, I am already insecure about my mothering abilities. Take kid’s party the other day, a baby I was passed started to cry and embarrassed I passed baby over to Roy who was so natural and brilliant and baby started laughing. I fear this kind of insecurity would be compounded if I used my friend’s egg. But this is not you of course. People do it all the time and you should probably get in touch with people who have used a friend’s DE to find out how they have coped. Everyone who goes down this route must worry about all the same things.
I was pretty shaken when Roy mentioned DE actually. I have actually cried a bit about it this week (not in front of him). I think my issue is, my afc is not that bad and I can produce eggs and at 33 I feel robbed and angry that we have to think about this. Every doctor I ever see, says ‘you’re young’ which actually pisses us off more because we should be doing better than we are. Also, although the doctors have always pointed at me as being the problem, the truth is they do not know. It could be our compatibility or it could actually be Roy. But for some reason, I blame myself and feel shame that we can’t make viable embryos. Roy certainly would never want to use DS. I think if a doctor turned round to me and said, Joy your eggs are shit, it’s never ever going to happen, I wouldn’t be in limbo land, I could then grieve and get on board with DE because I would know the only options are adoption or childlessness and the second one isn’t an option for me. But of course there is cash flow too which obviously dictates everything. This is now a big problem for us which of course limits choices and we have to be very careful with the choices we make and weighing up chances etc etc
Sorry, i’ve turned this whole thing in to about me when it’s not suppose to be! It’s just i’ve had several sleepless nights thinking about DE this week so it’s nice to chat to someone about it.
But Nelly it’s good you feel more optimistic and lighter. It’s having that belief that it can happen one way or another. Making that choice to stop using OE is huge and I’m sure Buzz can advise on all this. Please don’t be put off by what I have written about my fears because that’s my problem not yours. I think it’s really important to explore this avenue with your friend and her husband and Mr Nelly. It’s a huge decision and i@m sure once you have decided one way or another, you’ll never look back .

[Cosmos1]

Nelly what an amazing, and amazingly well timed offer. What I liked best about your description of her was the scientist bit, the idea that she might have a very pragmatic take on it. And that you already like her dcs. Do you think it's the kind of thing where, there are bound to be some awkward / difficult moments, but that they'd be far outweighed by the good ones? You know someone with a bio child can end up with their dc resembling / being more similar to their DH's family (and mil?!) than their own. My niece looks far more like me than my sil which I'm sure rankles her no end. 9 months incubation is quite a while. I think I'd be wanting to sit down the 4 of us and have quite an in depth conversation about different future scenarios and how we all might handle them ( e.g. when / what to tell all the dc) just so everything was discussed at the beginning, and that you all have the same idea of what kind of relationship everyone would have. Even if you did decide to have another go with your own eggs first it might make it easier knowing you have got this option. I did see some stuff someone posted on another thread (assisted conceptions?) about what de babies pick up from the mother in the womb and via amniotic fluid etc. A difficult decision, but a lovely friend! Haven't you got a sister? (sorry if I got that wrong) - would that be an option if you have?

Joy how are you feeling about tomorrow? And how are you feeling in general? Are you going to test at home or is it a clinic blood test? Am thinking of you loads and so wishing the best outcome for you and Roy. I'm sure the diet this week won't have made any difference - whatever gets you through it and whatever you fancy is probably doing you good. I can totally empathise about being worried about mothering skills and panicking when being passed babies, I often feel like that, and I think especially since our ttc troubles I feel that I will be 'watched' or something as to why I'm not proper mother material or something, or even just for signs of my desperation. I've always assumed I'd eventually be ok with one of my own with enough practise but you never know! I think I'd feel upset if DH suggested de as well, just at the fact he was suggesting it if that makes sense. You're right that there doesn't seem to be any evidence that its your eggs, ds might work. Anyway you're still in this round and I am still hoping for you.

Doll that is such a great piece of luck, talk about everything falling into place, how fantastic you won't have the worry about Little Doll, that must be a real weight off your mind. Not long now!

Rum and Ten best of luck with your upcoming cycles.

Ten and Absy have you seen this piece of research about polycystic ovaries and diet in the paper today

metro.co.uk/2013/10/03/women-trying-to-conceive-should-eat-a-big-breakfast-4132270/

Waves to everyone else.

I keep swinging from thinking the best to thinking the worst, and back again. Only 1 day to go, I just hope a get a definitive tomorrow and not another 'well it doesn't look great but we'll have to wait and see' type thing.

[MuddyWellyNelly]

Hiding in the loo so just a quick one to say those are incredibly helpful responses. And Joy your perspective, with your own history/feelings, is incredibly valuable to me as they are real. You are right I may feel differently, but all the points you raise are so important. And talk about You all you want! We all have our crosses that we carry and one of the lovely things about the thread is the sharing of them, and the resultant support.

Cos I do have a sister but she is older, had trouble conceiving herself, and had to have IVF. I do wonder if we have a family issue, yet she didn't have the poor response that I've had so I can't blame it all on my mother .

I will see if I can find the post you talked about as that sounds very interesting.

Will post more later but posting in the loo as I'm sitting next to my boss today and he really does not need to know about this...

[Cosmos1]

Nelly I found that post I was talking about - buried somewhere, so ill just copy and paste it for you here - it was apparently taken from fertility friends.

"...Remembering that 99.9% of a baby’s genes are identical to all other humans, 0.1% results in the variations we see in humans.

A baby conceived using a donor egg (roughly the size of a full stop) gets his/her genes from the donor; she gets the 'instructions' on the expression of those genes from the woman who carries him/her to term.
This means that a baby conceived using donor egg has 3 biological parents: a father, the egg donor and the woman that carries the pregnancy. The child who is born would have been physically & no doubt emotionally different had another woman carried that child. In other words the birth mother influences what the child is like at a genetic level – it IS her child. She has had a 'say' in her offspring as does the donated egg and the sperm used to fertilized.

In horse breeding for example, it’s not uncommon to implant a pony embryo into the womb of a horse. The foals that result are different from normal ponies. They’re bigger. These animals’ genotype – their genes – are the same as a pony’s, but their phenotype – what their genes actually look like in the living animal – is different. Taken from a booklet published by Freedom Pharmacy “Perhaps the greatest myth surrounds pregnancy. Many believe the uterus is simply an incubator. Nothing could be further from the truth.

The most important aspect of all pregnancies – including egg donation pregnancies - is that as the fetus grows, every cell in the developing body is built out of the pregnant mother’s body. Tissue from her uterine lining will contribute to the formation of the placenta, which will link her child. The fetus will use her body’s protein, then she will replace it. The fetus uses her sugar's calcium, nitrates, and fluids, and she will replace them. So, if you think of your dream as you dream house, the genes provide merely a basic blueprint, the biological mother takes care of all the materials and construction, from the foundation right on up to the light fixtures. So, although her husband’s aunt Sara or the donor’s grandfather may have genetically programmed the shape of the new baby’s earlobe, the earlobe itself is the pregnant woman’s 'flesh and blood'. That means the earlobe, along with the baby herself, grew from the recipient’s body. That is why the child is her biological child...”

[MuddyWellyNelly]

Cos that is fascinating and it must be said incredibly reassuring. Thank you

(I love the fact the analogy was about hobbles too!!)

[lovesLemonDrizzleCake]

Afternoon lovelies. Just quickly to let you know I am reading and thinking of you. Difficult stuff to think about joy and nelly. Good thoughts. Too knackered to add more than that I would have considered my uberfertile sister as a donor, but have always feared she would not want to do it.

Massive good luck for tomorrow cos. And fingers crossed for you too joy, is it OTD already?!

Yeah, we got a scan appointment, only 22 sleeps...

[joycep]

Cos – i ‘ve been thinking about you all week. Is your appointment morning tomorrow? I just am obviously wishing for the very best outcome for you. I’m feeling fine actually. Slightly nervous about tomorrow – it is a blood test and so i will wait for the clinic to call. Apparently they call the BFPs first and then the BFNs later in the day. Lovely! The wait is always worse than the definitive answer. My boobs have completely deflated this morning and I don’t have any AF pains which I have always had with previous pregnancies and CPs. I am 99.9999% sure it hasn’t worked but of course there is a tiny bit of wishful thinking in there somewhere especially as I got the shock of my life last time when it was a bfp but then of course they were better embryos. Anyway that is a really fascinating post you posted from FF> Really good reading.

Nelly – love the fact you are posting in the loo! I do that a lot as well

[Cosmos1]

Hi Joy, my appointment is tomorrow afternoon. Yesterday i was preparing myself regarding management options, and prepping DH as he needs time to digest things, plus had crying meltdown at gestone injection last night of the 'I don't want to do this anymore' variety. Today though im feeling much better and more hopeful (and grateful). We will see. There's no way round it if its bad news it's really going to hurt, but enough of my obsessing!. I'm nervous for you as well, waiting for phone results is awful. Will you be at work? You sound quite calm though I'm sorry you're not feeling more hopeful. They say all pg's are different so hoping that no af pains has nothing to do with it. My boobs have hardly changed - far less this time than any other month.

[Cosmos1]

Lemons good news for scan date, will that make you 7 weeks?

[seamermaid]

Ladies
I have been v slack on posting. I have been trying to keep up while I have been on a mad work trip.
So happy for lemons.
Absolutely keeping everything that can be crossed crossed for Joy and also thinking of Cos.
Rabbit. I hope you are doing better. I know it's been a hard time. Nelly - I know it's hardly a quality tag but there's something in the daily fail about people who have used friends and relatives as surrogates - not quite the same as DE I know but some interesting insights.
We need more autumn BFPs on this Fred and I'm hoping with all my heart it will be joy's turn.
Pout - I m devastated it didn't work for you. If you are still reading I hope you are healing. Know that I'm thinking of you and wishing you all the best.
Euro how's the case? Your new appointment should be soon. How do you feel?
Afm not much to report. Humira all done just have to wait 3 weeks for retest. Didn't think much about ttc during work trip away and really enjoyed this free feeling. Trying to hold on to that.
Love to everyone I have missed
X

[joycep]

Cos - gestone is just terrible. I cried many times last time as they were getting more and more painful but I think you will find that it's the stress of tomorrow rather than the pain of the gestone making you cry. Thinking of you.

Sea - welcome back

[lovesLemonDrizzleCake]

Welcome back sea! Good to hear you had a break from ttc! Hope the test Goes well!

Agree w joy's analysis! Cos huge handhold for tomorrow! And for you too, joy! Are you getting the call at work? I make them call SB!

[joycep]

Not at work tomorrow Lemon - good timing as had the day booked off months ago. They could well call Roy first, there is no pattern to who they chose to call!

[lovesLemonDrizzleCake]

You have no influence on that?!? Your clinic might have great results, but dealing w patients is not their best feature! Keeping everything crossed!!

[Buzzybee123]

joy I am a bit surprised that Roy suggested DE, perhaps you should mention to him that you both should consider DS as well. It is a big decision, even after I had decided I still thought about it alot. The other thing with DE is that it is no guarantee, even with donors in their 20's Reprofit has a percentage of 57%. Better odds I agree but no guarantee you will have a baby. With the DE cycle Barrys sperm was at its worst so things are still possible :)

nelly that is an amazing offer from your friend, I did 10 years ago think about offering my eggs to a friend, she went onto have successful IVF, personally for me I don't want to know the donor, although I think it is sad my baby won't know the woman who has helped her exist, and I wish she could look her up at 18,I also think it was a business transaction and I have paid for her eggs and this baby is mine. I wouldn't use a friend or relative as I feel the dynamics of the relationship will change, not necessarily for the worse but things would change, and if I valued the friendship would I want to risk that for a baby, I agree with alot of the points that joy raised, I would feel they were looking at my parenting skills and I suppose I would feel I was under scrutiny even if I wasn't. The other thing to consider is that her children will be half siblings to yours, do you tell them and when. It is nice to think that it will all have a happy ending but in truth no one really knows, I suppose my fear would be that if we had a fight as mother and child, would my child then turn to her, I think I would find that quite painful.

I don't worry about what she will look like,and believe some traits are in born and some are learned, you never know what kind of temperament your baby will have and it is all out of your control.
Barry has always considered this baby as ours for me I am aware that she doesn't have my DNA but it would be the same if we adopted and for me its the destination not the journey which is why I opted for DE over my own, also we had limited funds

cos I shall be thinking of you tomorrow.

sea A break from TTC is always good, glad the humeria is done.

lemon glad you have a scan booked

[sarlat]

Cos - thinking of you for tomorrow. Gestone is a bitch!

joy - again, thinking of you. But dont dwell on the outcome tonight. Lots of potential and hope whatever happens.

Nelly - wow what a day?! All of the above discussions sound really helpful. Could a specialist fertility councillor sit down with all 4 of you?

Hello to doll, brilliant about the baby sitter next to the hospital.

Lemon - hope the happy news is sinking in?

[rabbitonthemoon]

so much going on in the world of ten plussers! Where to start...

Nelly, I'm so sorry about the two keen sperm and egg situation. We just can't call these things and it goes to show just how complex ttc is every month. You so didn't need another knock. I don't know, for me, I feel like I started at 100 on the snakes and ladders board and was magnetised towards the snakes and am now on 10! We both have to roll a 6 and hit a ladder soon. I felt a hot rage that you had a cons that made you feel upset doing the ec. But now you have another option that has made itself known and that is an amazing thing. In the past year I have thought about egg donor a lot because I like to ponder on my options. But now, this has turned from abstract weighing up to a quite possible reality. I hope it is Ok for me to get out some thoughts about this.

My first concern is that this might not work either. This should not be your concern but I feel so fecking barren I can't imagine any kind of life in me. But, should it work, I think I would feel so grateful that I will experience pregnancy and a newborn that it would outweigh any of the negative feelings that I could work through. That said, in my recent shock, I had a horrible feeling of H's sperm literally having an affair in the petri dish with a young nubile and that his son/daughter would be with another lady! Agh! Next up, I thought of them finding their mum at 18 and liking them better than me. Ouch.

I have no friends I could ask to do this. If a friend offered, that would be a lovely thing but I think sar and cos offer good advice about thrashing it all out upfront. It would be amazing to feel confident about your donor in terms of knowing lots about them, I'm sure you have so many questions in your head. I would do it for a friend, I feel sure of that but then, I wanted to be an egg donor when I was 24 and was strongly persuaded out of it by my then partner. Wow, I could talk about this for hours. The epigenetics stuff is fascinating.

A big day tomorrow for cos and joy and I am willing with every cell that you will be on here with good news.Hope you are both doing OK tonight and that sleep comes. Joy I can't believe that woman. I cheered for Roy with his retort. I know you aren't feeling confident that this could have worked but last time you couldn't have called it so I will be hopeful for you.

Den, glad things are moving for you.

Lemon, may your 22 sleeps speed by.

Sea, hello. I'm glad you got some respite from ttc.

Doll, wow to you being full term and yay for you being in the right place with mini doll looked after. You are ready to go! I love hearing about your tales, do come and let us know how it goes.

Rum, did you have your scan?

Waves to everyone else, I'm sure I've missed folks. Pout - if you are reading, I miss you and hope you are doing OK. You are always welcome here for talks of spiderbites and dogs and crafty exploits, you can boycott talk of ttc - who needs that anyway when there are wasps in pubes stories?!

As for me. Well, I've had ten days to digest that have evolved from sheer shock and grief to a more low level feeling of doom. I have had my big cry and now just feel flat and energy less for the ivf road ahead. I have had no protocol sent to me yet and really want this to happen in November or it will be January. I think I will ring tomorrow to check that I can be ready for next CD1. Do you think there is time for protocol arrival/drugs/injection training in 3 weeks? I am clinging on to the hope that my left ovary isn't really dead. She said there was too much gas in the way to be totally sure. I also read that a large corpus luteum can obscure follies so maybe there will be another one hiding.

Without this thread and the people on it, I would have been LOST in the past two weeks. I am so thankful to you all and a huge love to those who are now diffed but who take the time and care to fluff up tail feathers and cheer on encouragingly.

[Buzzybee123]

rabbit 3 weeks is plenty of time for them to get organised, get in touch though, they might need a push to get on with things big hugs

[rabbitonthemoon]

Thanks Buzzy. I have to say, speed has not been a notable feature of my clinic. As has raising false expectations of speed.

[eurochick]

Hello ladies. I've got 10 days to catch up, which I will do over the coming days but for now I just want to say hi and I hope you are all doing ok.

I'm back from Paris and absolutely shattered after 2 insane weeks. Work has generally been a great distraction, although I did have a bit of wobble when my period turned up on 1 October - the start of the month when I should have had my baby. And then on the eurostar today I was stuck next to a preggo who rubbed her bump for most of the journey. But I'm not doing too badly, considering.

Did I miss any BFPs?

[rabbitonthemoon]

Evening euro! Get some sleeps lady. Drizz got a bfp and I have been officially rubber stamped as Barren. I'm sorry for the poignant date and af and bump rubber. Your turn soon.

[Buzzybee123]

rabbit I think most clinics leave it close to the end of a cycle, they don't seem to realise that it can be stressful as you want to know that things are in place and ready

euro sorry about the date, big hugs and welcome back

[MuddyWellyNelly]

Welcome back Euro! Sorry you are so knackered. Rest is in order! Hope it all went well.

Joy I am also surprised that Roy suggested DE. Your situation is far less clear cut than mine, I really am chasing a pipe dream with my Lazy arse ovaries. So many things could be the cause of your troubles, and DE is a huge thing to get your head around, I think I might be tempted to call his bluff and say DS is also worth considering. I am however also hoping its all immaterial in any case and keeping everything crossed for tomorrow.

Cos too, I hope that you get an answer, certainty is good, but if course I am praying it is the right kind of certainty. We are all here for you. Please, fertility fuckers, let tomorrow be good news all round.

Doll I love it when a plan comes together! If we don't get a chance to say so before, good luck with the birth! I am sure Little Doll will be quite taken with his new brother .

Rabbit my lovely lovely bunny. I wish I could literally hold your hand. Do chase the clinic, but they do have time. In my experiences the drugs arrived next day and the only benefit to advance warning was the better pick of appointment times; but that was private. Re the DE, I would never have had the guts to ask any of my friends; this was very much of her instigation. It was utterly shocking! And your affair in a Petri dish concern isn't off the wall either. I have already decided that no way could I go to EC day if we do this; and Mr Nelly and friend would have to go separately. There are so many things to think about. Most of them I know are irrational, but none the less real for it. Someone up thread said counselling - that would be compulsory, but yes very important. And I've already started officially gathering my thoughts about the"ground-rules pow-wow" we'd have to have. But right now top of my concerns is....age. Would I be better with a 22 year old? Realistically yes, but I also kind of like the idea of my child having access to the answers to questions they may have. And on and on the thought process goes.

Buzzy your input is so helpful too, from the other side so to speak. The one thing the last 24 hours has proved is that DE is on one way of another. Assuming no miracle natural BFP first though. Haha.

Anyway I have missed loads ( oh welcome back Sea, and hoorah for a scan date Lemon!) but I'm crap at typing on the iPad. So desperately wishing for good news from stressful situations tomorrow, thinking of you both Cos and Joy.