TTC 10 months + Part 17.

[MuddyWellyNelly]

For all the lovely 10+ers, and anyone else lurking, who has been trying for long enough to start worrying. This is a great place to rest until the elusive BFP shows up.

[rabbitonthemoon]

Oh and I've only had a small cry. I am still in dry mouthed shock mode so have that to look forward to. And yes, three years of only smelling coffee sucks. I want to rewind to my wedding, get miraculously diffed with a last good egg and enjoy an excited pregnancy. I would have enjoyed that considerably more.

[MuddyWellyNelly]

Buzzy and MrsDen both speak a bucket load of sense too.

Hello Pottering. Enjoy speaking to these lovely ladies. Most of us are still TTC our first. I'm not sure I could face this hurdle a second time!

Coco I'm sorry your DH is against IVF. Has he been able to elaborate why? Is it one of those things that he's misunderstood something? I never even asked MrNelly really . But he turns up jizzes in the cup as necessary so I guess he's ok with it.

Critter it's a beautiful day today. We are very lucky with where we live and where we get to visit as well. But I like the sound of your neck of the woods too.

Mad and Cos all ok so far? Did I imagine scans today?

Joy how are you doing today? Sar wrote beautiful and eloquent words at the end of the old thread.

The hobbles are fine thanks for those who asked. They are enjoying the extended mild weather and are fat! Mad no exciting news, hobble is in fact slightly hobbly right now so missing out on fun stuff. But I luffs her all the same.

For the quilters amongst you I just saw one for sale onDecorative Country Living for £295.....

Right loads to do, away socially again this weekend so better pack at some point. Oh Gin I might PM you actually :)

Rabbit, you know where I am if you need to talk.

[mrsden]

If you ovulate in a natural cycle then I can't see why you wouldn't get a couple of eggs from ivf. If you try this and it doesn't work and you then think egg quality is to blame then it will be time to think of other options. I'm an awful one for always wanting to look far ahead but something I've learnt is that in this process it's best just to think of the next step. Little chunks and all that.

I always thought fsh was a good indicator of how your ovaries function, so if your level isn't too high then that's good news.

[MuddyWellyNelly]

Rabbit at the end of the day the science still isn't that good. My doctors have often talked "facts" when they are anything but. The better ones fess up that they don't have all the answers and my best one, the NHS one, gave me a lovely version of "where there is a womb there is a way". Like you I ovulate normally ( was in fact congratulated on my progesterone score ) so I guess it's just statistics that are coming in to play like you say. But yet, in IVF with loads of eggs it is usually only the few best ones that carry on. There is no way they can tell quality. Is H's SA ok? Because that plays its part in embies too remember. And it's a very good point to let the NHS use your treatment as investigatory as well. I've figured out some things as a result of mine such as I think progesterone is key (notwithstanding my brilliant exam performance!). I'd say don't go hoping for more than say 2-3 eggs. But don't think that's such a bad thing either. Gin did mild remember. Euro is doing natural. And I will be here every step of the way telling you that it can and will be ok. These ladies were an absolute rock for me. After my first IVF scan when the clinic wanted to cancel they all rallied round and if it wasn't for them I would have. And then I got 3 eggs that they told me I wouldn't get.

Sorry this post is all over the place but main point is....you won't know until you try. Open Heart, to steal Sar's wonderful expression.

[rabbitonthemoon]

Den H is trying to get me to think one process at a time rather than jumping to multiple failed egg donor rounds and adoption. I'm just not very good at looking at one slice of the pie at a time. And all my ttc fears so far have come violently true. From fearing we would need to see a fertility clinic, to fearing being told I'd need surgery, to shit ovarian reserve to needing ivf. It's all come true.

[rabbitonthemoon]

Nelly it means loads to have someone that understands and can advise. Though I wish neither of us were in this position.

[Buzzybee123]

rabbit They say to take DHEA for 3 months so if you were going to take it maybe sooner rather than later, so ladies swear by it

[MuddyWellyNelly]

Rabbit I went to a fertility hypnotherapist in the run up to my first cycle. Lots of it I'd say was a waste of time and money (imagine yourself turning up your AMH dial) but some things resonated. More the chatting before and after. A lot of it was about self-talk, which I also came across at a similar time through a course for work. It's so destructive, we are horrible to our selves. Hypno lady taught me that when thoughts creep in that I don't like, to literally stamp them out. Stamp foot, say NO, and even physically push them behind you. It could be useful in focussing on the now? When those longer term negative thoughts creep in? She also was a massive advocate of positive thinking and that all I had to do was imagine being pregnant, which funnily enough I didn't buy. But now I think about it, I did feel a lot calmer after I'd had a few sessions with her. She gave me hope again. I know some of us on the thread find hope potentially terrifying but I realised that I preferred my day to day life that way. It might be worth finding out if there is a fertility counsellor or similar you can talk to, because it really can help.

[joycep]

Sar – what a generous and sweet post on the other thread. Thanks so much. I’m doing exactly as you say an to be honest, I am so much more relaxed than last time. I was so precious about even bending over before but i’m just forgetting about it. I will just say this though, you will make the most wonderful mum.

Coco – ii’m sorry MrCoco is not wanting ivf. I can’t remember how long you have been trying?. I hope that your healthy eating will pay off.

Cos – thinking of you tonight.

Rabbit – you sound in such pain and wish we lived close. You have so much to be angry about and I completely understand this. I am also baffled as to why you were never scanned for an afc earlier-that makes me very cross. And it doesn’t seem just or fair that with your healthy lifestyle that you are having to go through this. In fact, Roy and I were so bloody angry on the phone yesterday as we were saying exactly the same thing about us. All the supplements, 75g of walnuts a day, years of organic food, no smoking or drinking, the weight loss – we did everything to improve sperm and egg quality yet it didn’t do anything and to all intents and purposes, it seemed to make everything worse. It’s so easy to feel bitter. Anyway, I think you have to allow yourself to get angry and realise that is a natural part of this process and then accept it and utilise it in a positive way and decide how you are going to move forward.

The menopause. You aren’t going through it. I’ve said it before but your fsh is not high. Who knows what your grandparents and mother’s fsh was when they gave birth in their 40s. People can have fsh in their 20s and still get pregnant. People can also have low afc and it doesn’t mean you are menopausal. Also, i think you make a hugely important point in that your left ovary could only be seen at your lap. The scanner probably never found it if that is the case. The exact same thing happened to me where i was scanned and a vacant hole appeared and there didn’t seem to be anything there. The doctor told it could be a sign of premature ovarian failure. A second gynae then told me i was missing the left ovary but oddly enough under sedation they manage to extract a number of eggs. It is just well hidden.

I know with such a depressing and horrifying meeting it is hard to see the point or have any positivity but i think you need to give ivf a go and go in blazing, yes open heart (love that term Sar). I agree with Buzz and everything she says. At this moment, you have no idea whether quality is an issue. If you have the financial means you could have your nk cells tested to see if you want to support your nhs cycle with other treatments. You may think your outlook seems bleak but there have been signs of hope (cps/early m/c’s etc) . Fertility works in mysterious ways and there is no reason to think that you won’t be the one to strike gold. You’re down but certainly not out. We are here for you. It’s good to let everything out so you can learn to process it.

So I kind of managed the injection last night after watching a youtube video. (Buzz – thank you so much for the offer of vials of gestone, I have quite a few left over from last time.. I love the fact you are have all these drugs and know where to get them! Yes, the diagram shows the lower back ). I did struggle pressing the thick oil in though. I didn’t manage to use the last quarter as i wasn’t strong enough. When i drew the needle out, there was quite a bit of blood in the syringe which is a bad thing I think but i couldn’t really see the blood until I drew the needle out, i must have gone through a vein. There was a lot of bleeding afterwards and I felt pretty faint too but other than that it wasn’t actually that painful and I felt semi-proud of myself. Round 2 tonight.

[lovesLemonDrizzleCake]

Good and important talk on here yesterday! Just wanted to add that i'm thinking of you lovely lot! Not much to add properly as too tired, two sleeps til Sat and some spitting,sadly

[lovesLemonDrizzleCake]

Spitting=spotting! Bloody phone!

[joycep]

Nelly - that's the bit I liked hypno (although most has gone out of the window) where you become aware of how horrible we are to ourselves. Anything less than perfect and we can give ourselves a seriously bad time. But apart from that all the amh dial is a load of bollocks as is the Nk cell one where my woman said she would reduce them. Some of the stuff I have done!

Lemon - you don't normally spot do you? Could be implantation?

[lovesLemonDrizzleCake]

I do always spot, well nearly! But I don't report it here... Hardly there now, so another 24 hours of menkul coming my way

Pasta sauce is simmering, anything I should watch on telly?

[rumisyum]

GROUP HUG

rabbit, there is nothing any of us did, or didn't do to cause this. It's just a terrible, shitty, random thing, and we happen to the be the unfortunate people on the receiving end. It completely sucks. It's entirely not our fault.

I say that knowing that I have been feeling just as you describe since seeing my shitty, broken ovaries on my scan last week. So, do as I say, not as I do! I admire you so much for keeping to the healthy living while feeling so down - I've thrown everything out in the last week in despair. I'm hoping I can pull myself together again soon.

joy, well done on your injections. They sound fierce!

nelly, I love your spirit.

lemon, GBBO and Downton Abbey are currently my valium. So soothing. Good luck for the next 24 hours!

welcome pottering! May your time on these boards be very brief.

waves to everyone else.

Goodness knows I wish us all some good news soon!

[MuddyWellyNelly]

Joy well done on the injections. You are very brave. The gonal f is a piece of cake in comparison I think! I am glad you've found some peace for now. It is easy to go on raging and being angry, but it's very exhausting. Yes I rolled my eyes at some of the hypnotherapist chat, but Mr Nelly pointed out I am a massive sceptic so I was never really the best candidate. The talking part of it I benefitted from though. And fucking hell it was expensive. .

Oh arsebiscuits about the spotting Lemon. Whether it spells bad news or good, it's a mentalling I am sure you could do without. TV, do you have Netflix? We watch some quite dark stuff. Breaking bad, House of Cards, Orange is the New Black, the Killing. All lighthearted entertainment . no idea what's on real TV, was all set to watch Dowton until someone told me what happened in the Christmas special which we'd obviously missed whilst on honeymoon or something.


Rum I am sorry you have crap ovaries too. Come join us in this special tent. There is loads of room and maybe some chocolate brownies.

How are you Buzzy? I'm losing track of how far along you are.

Right I am procrastinating and must do stuff. Rabbit I hate that you felt so lonely today. By the way my sobbing meltdown was immediate so it may not happen for you. I hope not as it was pretty spectacular.

[Cosmos1]

Just a quick update from me - had the scan - there is a fetus in there still going, measuring right size, but heart beat apparently very low which is linked with high probability of miscarriage. It could be too early, so it's just a wait and see until another scan. Sigh. Sorry not to respond to other messages my brain is a bit all over the place.

[Buzzybee123]

joy sorry I meant I had needles if you needed them,well done on the jabbing

lemon at spitting, spotting on the other hand is promising

nelly I was thinking about 'house of cards' the other day, I was thinking of suggesting it to Barry. I am now 22 weeks, so far so good, although I am aware I am no way home and dry

[seamermaid]

A short post from far away lands to give support to our 10 plussers in need.

Joy - well done on the injections. I don't know how you do it - honestly. I'm keeping the faith that this CAN work for you and Roy.

Cos - I'm so sorry to hear about the low heartbeat. Wishing that it's just too early. I know you must be beside yourself with worry but try to stay calm. It could all be absolutely fine. Staying calm and relax as much as possible can only help.

Rabbit - I'm gutted you have been treated so shoddily by the docs. You have every right to be angry. But as other posters have said there are plenty of women who get pregnant with low reserves. It can still happen. I think going in with an open heart as others have said is good advice. A big old hug to you.

Good luck to lemon. Pls keep us up dated.

[MuddyWellyNelly]

Cos I just can't believe (even though I've seen it with other 10+ers) that the fertility fuckers think its in any way fair to put you through this, after all it took to get here. I am so sorry for you that you can't just enjoy this. But for now, your little embie is in there and fighting on. I hope so much it's just too early. Thinking of you and keeping everything crossed.

Buzzy I wish you the most plain and uninteresting 18 weeks....! Can't believe you are 22 weeks already. I can only imagine the worry never stops.

Hello from this side of far away Sea .

[ThatWayMadnessLies]

cos I'm sorry that the scan wasn't totally reassuring but don't lose hope. Probability does not mean certainty. Most women don't get a scan at this early stage and I am sure lots of babies sort themselves out without us ever knowing about it. Will keep everything crossed xx

nelly sorry the hobble is hobbling. My scan is on Monday morning so just holding tight.

rabbit I hope tomorrow looks a bit brighter than today. I too think that these doctors don't appreciate the weight of their words. They say things as if they are certainties and then another one says something completely different the next time you are in. I say go for it on the nhs and see how it goes. They wouldn't offer it if there was no hope. You might surprise yourself and them. Hare is right. You need to take this one step at a time and at each stage you learn something new about your body - and it won't all be bad!

joy I am still crossing everything for you. I'm pleased to hear that you are able to get on with things. I think it's worse when life stops. That injection sounds awful. I don't really know what it is but think I would have struggled with it, especially a solo injection without really being able to see it.

lemon I am still hopeful. Breakthrough bleeding is supposed to be common.

Apologies to everyone I've missed but am shattered and heading for bed. Big birthday tomorrow in our house - the dreaded 35 - and MrM has barricaded the spare room until the morning . Sleepy waves to you all.

[Buzzybee123]

cos sorry we crossed posts earlier, how slow was the heartbeat?? When is the next scan, big hugs x

[joycep]

Oh Cos I echo Nelly and can't believe you are being put through yet more worry and anxiety. So much can change in these early days and it really isn't unheard of to have a slow heart rate which then catches up. Ivf babies can be slightly slower to begin with. But I know it is of no comfort when the seed of doubt has been sown. Hang on in there and cross fingers that this is all just a bit too early.

[sarlat]

Cos - bloody hell, as nelly says, how did the fertility fuckers think it was anyway fair to put you through this??!! Im sorry for this added unfair stress. But the baby was the right size and I bet you the heart beat has only just started up so maybe it just needs time. There are loads of success stories on the unterweb about this very issue. Tight tight hugs, will be thinking of you.

rabbit - I am so sorry that the pain and distress rumbles on. Its horrid!! Im glad you could escape going in to work yesterday. This awful feeling will pass, it does leave a mark though, I know. But I still believe you have at least 1 ok ovary, an ok fsh and good age and general fitness. All this could lead to a more than ok cycle. I think you are in the shock stage. Make sure you are ready for the tears. Lots of good practical ideas about coping mechanisms and treatments above. My reflex lady is happy to have a phone consultation if you wanted to discuss flower essences or whatever. Be very very kind to yourself. None of this is your fault, 100% guarantee you of that. As joy says, they can interpret scans wrongly anyway. Surely dodgy ovaries would have been noted and discussed earlier as they would have seen them. A strong burst corpus luteum is a great sign.

Joy - glad you are feeling a little 'switched off'. Am thinking of you. Thank you for your kind words in return.

[Ginestas]

Oh rabbits I'm so sorry you are having to go through all this. I think the other ladies have all offered excellent advice and if I was in your situation, I would take the free ivf go and see what results it produces. It's not game over yet. Lots of love.

cos how many weeks are you? They often can't even find a heartbeat early on, so hang in there. It's great that the bean is the right size. I can imagine you are going to have a week of tortuous waiting. I hope it passes quickly and I'll be thinking of you.

lemons not long til otd now!

joy pleased to hear you are feeling ok. I went through calm days followed by totally mental ones during the 2ww! Ginster wasn't a top grade blast - she was a 5bb. The embryologist said that was fairly good but dr google didn't rate her chances...

Waves and luffs to everyone else I've missed. nellie you sound in a good place at the mo!

They've found group b strep in my wee, which has opened up a whole new world of menkuling for me. It doesn't impact on pregnancy but the baby can catch it during labour and it can make her seriously ill. They'll give me iv antibiotics during labour which should prevent this, but now I get to mental about the first few days of the baby's life, as well as the pregnancy (and ttc before that). It just never stops!

[Ginestas]

Ps sorry to air my woes on here. Hugely insensitive considering the living hell some of you are dealing with at the mo. Just wish I could wave a magic wand and give us all our babies x