TTC 10 months + Part 17.

[MuddyWellyNelly]

For all the lovely 10+ers, and anyone else lurking, who has been trying for long enough to start worrying. This is a great place to rest until the elusive BFP shows up.

[eurochick]

They seem to have had a big change in staff, gin. When I was there for the scratch a new nurse was being trained up (my procedure was being explained to her by one of the other nurses). Of my 3 scan appointments this round, 2 were done by two different drs I hadn't seen before. Collection was done by the same greek guy who buggered up EC and ET in August. And transfer by another new dr.

fox I have a theory that the oestogen in an IVF cycle makes you hold on to weight. I have put on a few pounds each time, but managed to lose most of it again before this round. I hope you had a good birthday. x

PS - I've always been a Tampax Ultra girl since my teens :( so I can't say I noticed any difference. I did have an evil one after the scratch though.

[foxinorangesocks]

Thanks den, v reassuring! What's with the wateriness?! I had to sleep on a black towel on Thursday, not done that since the 90s! I thought the tummy would flatten post period but alas not. I will try to be patient. How are you doing?

[Mrsden]

It will go fox. My tummy is flat again after a few weeks. Yes, my period was awful too and watery so that every time I moved it felt like I was flooding.

[foxinorangesocks]

Euro here is a great big hand hold. I always think that none of us know how we grew as tiny embryos but all we want is to be told that everything looks great, it's hard enough as it is without ambiguity and question marks. That is only one theory and it may well be the sperm so donor egg talk feels very premature given all of your good results and your response to drugs. Much as it's hard, don't give up on this cycle yet, you have levied you can get pregnant with ivf and we will all be hoping beyond hope for you.

I've wandered off thread again to enjoy being another year older. I am feeling OK and it amazes me that I can be and can really enjoy things whilst carrying such shite around in my brain. Coming off the hormones has been very challenging and I have the Worst Ever period, so painful and hello ultra tampax. This is gross but it has been a very watery period, most odd - has anyone else had this? Also I am twitchy that I am most definitely bigger in the belly than I was before, I am still incredibly bloated, will it go away or is this my new post ivf tummy. I do not like it one bit.

Am now back in the land of normally functioning non crying person so will try to be a bit more sociable.

[Ginestas]

Oh euro, big hugs. I'm so so hoping that against the odds this embryo makes it. Are they keeping the others in culture to see what happens? Cos is right that ginster was a day 6 blast.

Hmm re the embryologist. During our first cycle when I asked him why so many of our embryos had arrested by day 3, he said it was normally due to egg quality, but he did not know our history and the consultant was pretty certain it was due to poor sperm quality, which seems more likely due to our situation.

Interesting re the female gynae. I feel more comfortable with female ones and they do seem to be more gentle. I'll never forget one of the Greek guys telling me 'it's just a speculum' as he rammed one into my butchered bits post EC... Grrrr. Having said that I did like one of the other Greek ones who did our last ET and now seems to have left.

Anyway don't be too despondent yet lovely.

[Mrsden]

Sorry euro x posted.

[Mrsden]

Sorry it wasn't more positive euro. I'm surprised that the embryologist could make the jump to conclude your eggs are old though and you need donor. How does he know it's not the sperm? Their role doesn't stop at fertilisation. By slow growing does that mean they hadn't reached the expected number of cells by day 3?

[eurochick]

cos I asked the question - we've now had (out of 4 rounds) 10 eggs. 3 didn't fertilise, 2 didn't divide properly, and 4 of the other 5 were slow growers. There's clearly something up. I don't think we will bother to go for a cycle review this time (they never seem to really tell us much) so I wanted to hear what he thought. It was hard to hear, but confirmed what I had suspected.

[eurochick]

Thanks joy. He says that there is a possibility it could be the sperm, but it's usually the egg DNA that is responsible for the first couple of days and then at day 3 the sperm takes over (I remember then saying that at the open day). So as ours are slow dividers from the get go, it seems like it is most likely to be an egg ishooo.

I agree - with reasonable AMH, FSH (although that was last tested in 2011!) and antral follicle count, I feel like there should be good eggs in there. He wasn't saying it was impossible, but was saying that as the eggs age there are fewer good'uns in there.

[Cosmonaut1]

Euro what a horrible day I hope you're ok. I have to say these embryologists - can they really be this confident? Isn't their embryoscope camera thing new? They don't study the embies of all pregnant people, can they really tell so early? Also wasn't the Ginster a day 6 blasto rather than day 5. The consultant I had a review with said to me that there was no evidence that day 6 blastos were any different from day 5 and that 'some embies grow at different rates'. As for what they said about the reason I think it's actually quite out of order for them to say all that, you're in the middle of this round, surely that's a conversation for another time, ie a review. I'm really quite cross on your behalf.

[joycep]

Oh Euro, I am so sorry.. It seems you are having the same thing happening as Roy and me- slow growing embies. But Surely that's a massive assumption for the embryologist to come too that it's your eggs. What about the sperm? Your amh is good, you have plenty of eggs and fsh is ok isn't it?? Slow growing embies do work but I know it's hard to have hope especially when the embryologist has thrown such a thing at you. How are you feeling now? This TTC fuckery is just an absolute nightmare. I am so sorry.

[eurochick]

Nice norks, driz.

I hear you mrsd. Unfortunately, it's unlikely to be me. Our trio was not doing well - two had failed to divide properly. The third was dividing but was slow (again - the same with all our embies). I asked the embryologist why this was happening. He put it gently but basically the message was that that my eggs were too old and mentioned donor eggs. I cried (and I never cry, especially not in public). We had the slow one back, but I don't hold out much hope.

I think we are nearing the end of the road - we'll do one more "throw everything at it" cycle in the spring and I think that will be it.

On a more positive note, I barely felt ET. The previous 3 and the scratch were done by the 2 male gynaes at the clinic. This one was done by a new female gynae and was not even uncomfortable. That's how it should be done!

[lovesLemonDrizzleCake]

Could not agree more, mrsd! It's time for a flurry of bfps! Starting with euro, sea up soon, and can we pls have an ironidiff too! Otherwise I'll never believe they are real!

Good luck, euro!

[Mrsden]

Good luck euro, as sarlat says it's your turn. Just as it is all of us ten plussers turn. We're fed up of this this now and we need some good luck on this thread after a dry period. Bfps, come on!

[sarlat]

Good luck euro, sending many posituve vibes. Its your turn.

[Tenmonthsandcounting]

Good luck Euro! Hope today goes well

[Ginestas]

Good luck euro! Let us know how it goes x

[Cosmonaut1]

Euro good luck for ET today.

[seamermaid]

At your big boobies Lemons. I feel much better about fibbing now. I think it's great that you are open about your diffment. People should know that many people have difficulty. The media esp the daily hate really make it seem like it's all down to women who all leave it too late.

Mrsd yes I can imagine being 32 many think you are just enjoying being married just the two of you. I sigh when work contacts say to me. Ooh aren't you getting on a bit. Wouldn't wait too much longer if I were you. I smile and say nothing.

Euro. Too much excitement but please make sure you take some time out after ET to chill. [wags finger]. The embroscope thing sound v high tech. I'm not sure my clinic offer it.

[lovesLemonDrizzleCake]

Euro, mine were in the embryoscope too and two out of the top two tried or managed to implant... Good luck with ET tomorrow!

Sea, I agree with euro that the anticipation is worse than actually cycling! You'll be fine. Also, very much agree mrsd that it's too private to share with mere acquaintaces! Have been v open about the how of this diffment! No bump yet, btw... Enormo boobs tho, which SB quite likes...

[eurochick]

sea we've had IVF on all 4 cycles. For the first cycle, the sperm sample was slightly below the threshold at which they recommend ICSI but we declined (the other 3 have been slightly above).

I've had largely positive reactions from opening about it. Most people seem interested (although perhaps they are only being polite).

mrsd you are spot on - the dawn raid was exciting, but the timing was far from ideal!

The embryoscope is basically an incubator that does time lapse photography on the embryo development, so rather than taking the embryos out of the incubator at set points to assess them, they can watch the film to see how they are dividing. This is supposed to help identify the best embies. Also, it means they are disturbed less, as they are not removed from the incubator for checking. It is supposed to increase implantation rates by 15-20% according to the figures I have seen. It's most beneficial where there are lots of embies to choose from. I'm not sure it is really worth it for only 3, but our clinic has just bought one and were quite enthusiastically pushing it, so we said yes.

[Mrsden]

Dawn raid sounds exciting, euro. But perhaps not the day after ec. 3 is fantastic, so they'll do a 3 day transfer? What does the embryoscope do?

Sea, I've fibbed loads when asked about wanting kids. I'm not about to share what I see as very private and medical information with people. I don't get asked loads, I think because at 32 people still think we have time. But when I do get asked I usually try to dodge it of say something vague.

[seamermaid]

Thanks lemons. Hope your bump is nice and round now.

Euro that's excellent fertilisation. Was it ivf or isci? I think you said before in a previous round that they wanted to do isci but I think you refused?

Dawn raid sounds v exciting. I'm sorry you didn't get to put your feet up. Good luck with ET. I have a good feeling about this. Are you still feeling fairly relaxed?

Thanks euro and lemons. It makes me feel better I'm not the only one that lies about wanting a child. I feel a little bad about it but it's so hard to admit infertility to strangers. Euro. I took a leaf out of your book and have started being open with friends about ivf. I think it's a good thing to demystify fertility issues. What's been surprising is the reaction - from real empathy to deep ignorance to some who are really uncomfortable about the topic who just want to move away from the subject. Some automatically assume it's because I left it too late. It's been really quite interesting seeing how friends react.

[eurochick]

sea it's an intrusive question. I will happily share the fact that we are doing IVF with friends, but not acquaintances, so I give a similar answer if asked.

A long weekend somewhere warm sounds wonderful. The anticipation of the cycle (and you have had a long while to wait!) is somehow worse than actually doing it. Not long to go now. :)

I had an exhausting day yesterday. I should have had the day off to relax after EC but basically a colleague of mine was stuck for someone sufficiently senior to accompany her on a "dawn raid" of a company that was having its books seized, so I stepped in. It meant an entire day on my feet though, and a journey of more than an hour each way, so I was completely spent by the end of it.

I managed to take the call from the clinic in between all the activity - 3 fertilised out of 4, which I am happy with. (We got 2 out of 4 last time we had more than one egg.) Transfer will be Sunday.

[lovesLemonDrizzleCake]

Just popping in to drop a huge supply of cake and wine for you all!

Good luck with the round and with relaxing before, sea! That answer has always been my default position too!

Thinking of you fox and Nelly, too!

Fingers crossed for fertilisations and good development, euro!

Hurrah for the option of refreezing! That makes life easier!!

Waves and hugs for you all!