TTC 10 months + Part 17.

[MuddyWellyNelly]

For all the lovely 10+ers, and anyone else lurking, who has been trying for long enough to start worrying. This is a great place to rest until the elusive BFP shows up.

Cos that might just tip the balance my lovely. There is a leaky pessary party in my pants as I type! Seems totally pointless but if it tips the odds from no per cent to one per cent then bring it on. I don't even know for sure there's an egg on the loose, like my 'fibroid' my egg is not one for being captured.

OK very long computer-based catch up.

Rabbit, I know we've chatted already today but want to say again how sorry I am that this happened. I think my trigger has always been much the same in advance as yours was, so I do think it's just spectacularly bad luck - as if you needed more of that. :( But the drugs and scans made sure that Boris grew to a good size, the sperm are right there beside him. You've had CPs on your own so I do think you are still in with a good shot, and you have the fanny candles too, although I'm sure that doesn't exactly feel like a win right now. Hang on in there lovely. This could still happen for you, and plan C isn't a total wipeout remember.

Den I have high hopes for you, and you have frosties. You will definitely get there, I know it.

Euro, your AMH made me gasp. This is how scarred I am! That's fantastic; and again I suspect it won't be long before you get all the stars aligned. How was the interview.

Gin 35 weeks is amazing! I have no idea where that time went. Have you bought stuff? I think if I ever get pregnant, the stage you are at now will be about the time I allow myself to even think about where I might put a baby. Never mind all this buying prams when you are not even half way through.

Joy you are going to get there, you will have your baby. I can see how the whole process is incredibly frustrating for you though. You cope so well (as said earlier, how on earth would the average differ deal with it?) and are always so supportive to everyone on this thread. I wish I could wave the wand in your direction. Your BiL was behaving very selfishly. I am sure their grief is genuine; but so is yours. And some people do just open their mouths and let their belly rumble.

Cos that sounds like a decent enough review. Do you know when you might go again? Sorry if you said already.

Buzzy I love that you still cheerlead us on! How far along are you. I hope the traitor K has started to behave herself again.

Pout . Oh we have missed you, please don't be a stranger.

Waves to everyone else I've missed, of which there is loads including Sea, Free and many others.

So I have been basically trying to avoid thinking about TTC as it is so heart-wrenchingly painful. Keeping busy works in part, but mainly I'm just dealing with it by not thinking about it. But last night we had our 3rd-cycle review. I had made sure I booked it with the nice consultant, not botox-man. He is really nice, has a good way with words and took lots of time to explain things. Some gems I picked up were:

-The second and third cycles had mini-follies towards the end, but the main follie creates oestrogen, which has the effect of reducing FSH and thus suppressing all the others, which is why once one gets away it can be hard for the others to catch up.

-He really didn't rate natural in our case, as there is always the chance that those smaller follies could grow at a similar rate the next time

• I asked again about LP and again he didn't recommend it, but unlike the last guy he explained why. It basically didn't really give me any stronger a chance of catching the follies at the same time; or rather, once you start stimming, you still stood the risk of one romping away and stealing all the good drugs.

• So I asked about baseline scans/timed cycles. This was something that could be of interest, but he said if you picked a cycle that had 3 or 4 follies showing at an early stage, there was no real way of telling if those were actually just about to die off naturally anyway, and questioned whether it would just add more stress to the process, as well as a further delay.

-DE. My friend doing it is not out of the question. The upper age of 35 is a guideline not a legal limit so could be a possibility.

• Current wait at my clinic is 5-6 months for DE

• where they are linked to overseas, he said, is surprisingly populated by lots of people with my sort of colouring etc so not an issue if that's what we want to do.

• DE would probably increase my chances from 5% to 50% per cycle. So he said if you want to know how best to invest money to get a baby, this is it.

• Other rounds with my own eggs are not out of the question and it is entirely up to us.

He of course recommended we talk to a counseller. I am absolutely up for the idea of DE. The question is whether I am ready to give up on me. Mostly I think I am but then every so often I have a wallow and realise just how much I hate all of this.

So that's where we are. We are going on holiday at the end of the year, and hoping to go skiing in the spring, so DE if it is on the cards will be after that. In the meantime we keep pretending that sex is all about fun and romance and I'm not secretly counting the cycle days .

I keep reading, and cheering for you all, but not sure I've got a lot to add from my own perspective any more. End of the road is a bloody lonely place :(. I did feel relief at AC basically being over for us, but now that thought just depresses me again. I worry that if we did "one more try" those would just keep becoming one more and one more until we were bankrupt.

So on that cheery note I am going to go to bed and research skiing holidays to cheer me up. You can't do THAT with a fat belly or toddler in tow, huh??? :)

nelly You haven't reached the end of the road, you've just reached a junction, my clinic overseas had a 4-5 month waiting list, we also got to choose hair colour and eye colour, height, education etc of our donor, no idea what my baby will look like, lucky for her she won't look like me but then lots of friends kids don't like them

You are right, junction is a good term. Just that I have a habit of powering on through regardless. Whereas I know this is a massive decision that I need to consciously make, not just let it become the default next step.

It has occurred to me that there are certain parts of my family genealogy that perhaps it's best I don't pass on!

Rabbit. I'm so sorry to hear what happened. It must have been awfully stress making. But IUI can work so I don't think this is over yet. I'm still cheering Boris on!

Nelly I'm glad you had a useful follow up with the consultant. I think DE is a big step and you have got to feel ready for it. Will you be taking up the counselling? I would be inclined to do it. Taking a few months off and enjoying kid unfriendly holidays sound like a really good idea.

Joy. I was quite shocked to read about your BIL's insensitive comments. Some people just don't think. I feel for Roy having to listen to all that! I agree most people wouldn't be able to cope with long term ttc. It's just so draining. Poor SIL though re m/c.

Pout. So happy to see you back on here. You have been sorely missed. How's big dog?

MrsD. I hope you are surviving the 2ww. Will you test early?

Gin. It must feel really real now for you. I'm so so happy and delighted for you.

Cytokine retest done. Clinic was in shocking state yesterday. There's just so many people there. I waited one hour just to get the form to do a 2 min blood test. Couldn't get into the waiting room. Stood for 30 mins in the hallway. I'm dreading when I will have to go there everyday. The chaos feels stress making. Oh well.

Lots going on outside of ttc life at the moment which I'm grateful for.

And Euro. Great news about your Amh. I have always been v skeptical about the overemphasis some docs have on these numbers (and Fsh). I have heard so many people see them go up and down and not in the way that is medically expected. Nonetheless it must be v reassuring.
Hope the interview went well.

Thanks all. The interview was one where I was interviewer rather than interviewee, so it went fine!

sea that all sounds unnecessarily stressful. I hope you get the result you want this time.

nelly you are not at the end of the road, my lovely. However, on that topic someone has started a "moving on" thread over in Infertility. It's a subject that doesn't get a lot of discussion, so it is interesting to read.

cos it's always nice to have a plan! In many cases it is a numbers game and I'm not sure that all of the bells and whistles add that much in terms of success in many cases.

rabbit how are you feeling today, lovely?
I do think they left EC a little late. My clinic aims for 35 hours after trigger I think.

Cos - I am glad the appt went ok. Have you done more than one fresh round of Ivf so far - I can't remember. ?

Nelly - you aren't at the end of the road but it must be hard with so many decisions to make. The whole ivf thing can become Just one more, just one more. Ivf is amazing of course when it works but sometimes i think it would have been easier for some of us if it wasnt around. Decisions can get very overwhelming and hope and fears and limbo land is drawn out. But the option of DE now is of course amazing too but such important decisions are so hard. I found your post and what the doc had to say very interesting.

Rabbit- how are you faring today?

Sea - I should have warned you but November is their busiest month of the year. It is horrible then because people are trying to get in a cycle and a bfp before Xmas. I started at end of Dec and it wasn't bad then but obviously you can't really decide when you are starting as you are relying on your cyto results. Hoping you get a good result.

Feeble hello.

Nelly that sounds like a thorough review. I imagine all that applies to me too and makes sense in a lot of ways, mores the pity. I totally get the end of the road feelings and perhaps am not mentally placed to be very helpful as I very much feel that for myself today. However, as always, I see you with de twins, if not an ironic diff whereas I can only picture myself being eaten by my own cats as a lonely childless 90 year old!

Sea, good luck with your test.

I am already in bed. It feels safe and I feel bashed around. And very very sad.

Just popping in to hold some hands quietly, bringing cake and booze for those not cycling!

And a huge welcome back for poutster, i've really missed you here!

Big decisions abound here, thinking of you all. Hugs!

rabbit I have always felt battered and a bit "used and abused" by the end of each of my cycles, even if they have gone well, so I completely understand the need to hide in bed. Is Hare looking after you well?

And yes, welcome back pout!

Rabbit I hate that you feel so down, but totally understand. You will not be childless. Fact. Our journeys are harder than many and certainly not conventional but I think Sar's "open heart" applies here more than ever. A non biological child is not a traditional "family" route, but who is to say that the love will be less? Any adoptive parent would dispute that with all their might. I bet Doll would tell us. So we will have our family(s) by hook or by crook and it will be awesome

Euro I'm glad the interview wasn't scary then .

Joy it was quite interesting talking to him. The annoying thing is I see a doctor twice in the whole process. The EC day and the review. I don't feel very informed the rest of the time. I also asked about ICSI (did I write about it?) but he said the worry is that it causes damage via the process itself (or can do), so wasn't a guarantee that we'd have got a fertilised egg. What else? Oh yes I asked if our double-fertilisation indicated poor egg quality. He said yes, but only for that egg and irregular fertilisation happened in nearly all cycles, just that it was rather an issue in mine. It didn't mean all my eggs were as duff.

Sea yes we will do the counselling. It's mandatory but even if it weren't there are a lot of things to deal with.

When do you get the results back? The clinic sounds chaotic. I'm not sure if I'd cope with that! Fingers crossed the mayo did it's thing.

Nelly I hated that I saw no doctor the whole time except egg collection and even then I got one of the on call men, who whilst being very nice did not feel known in anyway. I feel confused that I had not one blood test in the whole process.

Euro, my tea has been made. We spent ages today just having a cuddle and saying nothing. There isn't much to say. You're right, I do feel invaded. I think I am still very upset about fibroidgate, walking back into theatre was a very bad experience for me yesterday and all I can associate waking up with is sad and concerned faces. I'm really really struggling with that today. My hand canula was a real bleeder again and the bruise goes all the way up my arm it makes me shudder. I don't really want counselling as, with my history, I've pretty much 'done' counselling! But we are both going to go, to explore next stages. Are you doing short protocol? I think you'll find it a doddle compared to downregging. I was spaced out at first but that went. I'm finding progesterone symptoms worse farting

Rabbit - I just want to give you a big hug. IVF just sounds grim to be honest. I am so glad you have Hare to look after you. I think counseling is a good idea. It's one of those things that I love and hate. I hate it because it is just so damn painful and love because actually I do often feel much better after sessions. Going to bed early and being kind to yourself is crucial!

Cos - I forgot to say yesterday that I am glad you had follow up. I hope it wasn't too difficult emotionally. You mentioned doing a round in Jan/Feb. Am I correct in thinking you have some in the freezer? Will you do another fresh round or FET?

Free - I also forgot to welcome you back. How are you getting on with chasing for forms for ivf? Are the Chinese meds doing anything?

Joy - Well I guess in hindsight it's a blessing I didn't get to cycle in Nov. When do you have your appointment? In Dec?

MrsD - Have you caved and tested yet?

First call of the day today was my old assistant calling to say his wife is expecting.. In my head they are still barely out of uni...it feels like the next generation are already having kids. I feel so old and barren.

We have just starting the ball rolling to move to another place (bigger with garden) and friends thinks it's because I am preggers. Oh the irony.

Rabbits I have been thinking of you loads and like others offer hugs. I can imagine how crushing it must all feel for you right now. Hare really is lovely and I am happy that you have such a wonderful and supportive OH. Counselling might be a good idea just to unburden the torrent of emotions a bit. Sometimes saying things out loud to someone brings some order & sense to things.

sea Sorry that the clinic was so manic. joy makes a good point that I hadn't considered about a rush for a Xmas BFP. A new house with a bigger garden sounds lovely and something to look forward to and give you a little boost. Typical though that even a house move is tainted by people's expectations of duffedness.

cos I'm glad that your review went okay. Looking ahead to a fresh round just after Christmas is nice. New Year, new hope.

nelly I'm so sorry that you are feeling so sad about all this. I hear you on the "one last try" thing. I have often pondered the thought that if we had the funds where would we draw the line. A holiday sounds like a lovely distraction.

Thank you for the lovely warm welcome back ladies. I really did miss you all but needed the time to work out where the hell my head was at. I am pleased to report that I feel massively better. Nelly you talked about feeling like being at the end of the road, well that is exactly where I feel I am at but it isn't sad for me, it is a relief. I feel like my time for having a baby has passed. Whether it is because this whole TTC hell has drained me or whether my brain has kicked in with some kind of self preservation I don't know but I don't have the same gut wrenching urge for a baby that I did. I still have the sadness that I was robbed of being a mother at the time I felt was right for me but it doesn't sting like it did. That said, we will not be using contraception so technically will be TTC I suppose. We had "the chat" but neither of us could come to a decision on that. I think I have a way to go to totally give up on the dream.

Some of you ladies will know that I have a plan b on the back burner that may or may not work out but I see it as purely a safety net in the event that my opinion on all this massively changes in the future, the plan b is not the be all and end all right now. My biggest fear at the moment is that this new relationship with TTC might change and the relief is temporary. I guess all I can do is live in the moment and be glad that for now I am the happiest I have been in a long time. I am actually looking forward to Christmas & getting the decorations out and I have started to make some crafty bits to try and sell and see if the whole crafty venture might fly. Oh and we got some good news about Big Dog. He didn't need the op in the end. The veterinary hospital that were supposed to do the op said that he had been misdiagnosed by our local vet. He is still resting the leg but it is a nasty sprain rather than a huge problem. Hope I don't sound too trite or insensitive (and hope I don't get to eat my words) but I guess I just wanted to share where I'm at with things.

Pout it's so lovely to hear from you again and especially lovely to hear you sounding so much more positive. I so hope it continues for you. Crafty stuff sounds fantastic.

Sea your story about the clinic sounds unbelievable. When do you get the results? We do have one frostie left but I think we might do a fresh round jan/ feb.

Rabbit you've gone through so much no wonder you feel bashed around. How are you today? Are you still off work?

Euro thanks. I'm really unsure about whether to do immune treatment next time or try without. I did end up feeling very over medicated but then I did get further than before? When is your scratch?

Nelly ooh ski holidays, now that's a subject I could talk about for hours! Much preferable to thinking about ttc. Where are you thinking? I'm glad you have got a definate plan of DE sorted and wish you well in making the decision about whether to do more rounds with own eggs first. It's all so hard and a very individual decision. I found your summary of what the doc said very interesting / useful. And you're right, your family will be awesome.

Joy where are you at, waiting for the appt at the new clinic?

rabbit big paw squeeze

sea sorry about the clinic, when i had my fertility MOT the clinic were running late and never bothered to say I can never understand how they can be in the TTC business and not create a calm stress free environment

mrsd Is Monday OTD ? Fingers are crossed for you

pout Glad big dog is recovering, K is back to pulling her fur out I shall see what the vet says when we take her for her annual jab next month, well if the vet survives her onslaught You sound in a good place right now, I do hope plan b works for you

sea the clinic environment does sound stressful! You'd think with the amount of money they must be making that they could rent a bigger space or something.

cos my scratch is on Thursday. If I make it that far. It'll be CD26, and I do occasionally have 25 day cycles. I didn't temp this month, but PMT started very early, so I have some doubts. My cycles since the mc have tended to be on the longer side though as I've been oving a bit later. So I could be stabbing the week after this coming one. Blimey. I have been studiously not thinking about the next cycle, so I hadn't realised how soon it was coming round.

How are you doing, buzz? Is it getting any easier?

I've been lurking a bit on the adoption board lately, so I guess I am subconsciously considering that. I have to say I am a bit horrified by some of the nosy parker social worker stuff though. There is one woman on there who has been asked to get rid of her husband's frozen sperm! From reading her posts I think he must have had some sort of treatment that means there is no chance of ever getting more. So they are requiring the equivalent of sterilisation and ruling out the possibility of them ever having a biological child at any point in future. It's so wrong and intrusive.

I too sometimes lurk on the adoption boards. I don't think I could cope with the intrusiveness. I have worked with social workers in the past and with the looked after children team so I do know quite a bit about it and this is one of the reasons I've ruled it out. It certainly isn't a possibility for us whilst we're living abroad anyway.

I'm 99% sure this round hasn't worked. I have no symptoms, and just feel that there is nothing going on. Testing day is Wednesday, I'll test before then because I don't want to break down on the phone which I will if I haven't had time to prepare. I feel like having to go in for a blood test to be told what I know is a further humiliation and rubbing salt in the wounds.

Rabbit, I cried when I read your post about hiding in bed. That's exactly what I did last night. I cried until there was nothing left. I'm filled with a huge bubble of sadness that is always looking for ways to come out. I really do hope Iui might work for you, it does for many people and I'm sure the egg is happier inside you than out.

I did read the thread about moving on. I'm in such a bitter place right now though that I actually felt like throwing the laptop across the room when I read the op was now pregnant. I shouldn't feel like this, but the feeling that it happens to everyone else but me is a bit overwhelming right now.

Uh yes me too Den. Thank you for confessing that!! And even on a thread that is so clearly about losing hope and trying to find peace with that, I was a tiny bit peeved to see some helpful advice about tests etc. one in particular made my blood pressure rocket. I was also so sad at how many of us 10plussers were on it

Agreed about adoption. Whilst the end result is probably amazing, I'm not sure my fragile state can handle the process.

Euro the stimming drugs will be fine I'm sure. I hope you do make it to scratch although it seems a weird thing to wish for as it was briefly quite ouch .

Grr forgotten everything else. Sea I'm sure I was going to reply to you too.

Oh Pout I was definitely going to reply to you and I will but not on the phone. Am I the only person in the world who hasn't mastered the i-typing

Do people not think that if we're coming to the end of the road then we quite possibly have had our thyroid checked out? Or do they think we just didn't bother with the simple blood tests and jumped straight to Ivf? I also feel a bit peeved when people say oh I tried for 12 months and what worked for me was blah, blah, blah. I know it's well meaning but 3 years plus trying is a different kettle of fish.

I actually hate the stories of pregnancy because for every story like this there are ten more where the couple never got pregnant but people don't share those ones. I was thinking yesterday about people I know who are past menopause now and didn't have kids. It's not always a possibility that you will keep trying and it will happen one day.

I realise I sound like a complete cow. It's the progesterone talking

No time to post now as we are going out for a 'nice day'. Once we just did nice days. Now we have planned nice days to escape the hellishness! Loads to say. I loves you all and will come back later. Den I also have the progesterone EVILS! Remember - there is no way of knowing. I feel very hopeful for you.

Ps. I'm going to start a new Long Haul trying thread later. Thought I'd revel in my functioning thyroid but still infertile rareness in true style.