TTC 10 months + Part 17.

[MuddyWellyNelly]

For all the lovely 10+ers, and anyone else lurking, who has been trying for long enough to start worrying. This is a great place to rest until the elusive BFP shows up.

Thank you so much for your support (not so sneaky namechange, given all the journos hanging around).
I don't know what percentage, but I'm hoping to speak to the doctor today to find out, and see what the options are. Before we had the results for DH's tests he mentioned IVF, so I don't know. I think DH needs to see a male expert. He was more chipper last night, but we need to properly discuss what our options are and what steps to take. I suggested he go to his GP (as the referral for tests came from my gynae), say he's had two sperm analysis tests, the results, and see if he can get a referral to an expert.

I hear the "people being pregnant all over" thing. There's THREE women on my floor who are pregnant, and have found out abouter another 4 people being pregnant in the past few weeks. It's so annoying.

Euro Just put my dates into clearblue and if my next cycle is as normal my test date would be Christmas day, that could definitely go one way or the other! Here’s hoping that the scratch makes all the difference this time. Not sure I will be wrapping my pee stick up for OH though that sounds gross. (was that here I read that?!)

Sea The interminable waiting, how were the intralipids? Do they know how long these take to work? I feel for you about commitments and travel etc and pet craving, my mum has kindly agreed to help us out a bit as I too travel with work, otherwise it wouldn’t have been a possibility for us either despite the doggy daycare!

Nelly I too suffer from occasional night sweats, don’t read anything into it, I understand it can be related to something as simple as what you ate before bed….Also work motivation………..uh what is that please?

Joy Do it, best thing ever. Also sleepless nights are good practice for our imminent BFPs! Sorry about the songbird, sounds crap.

Abs I have just generally accepted that everyone will be pregnant before me, including my older friends who smoke and drink loads who ‘accidentally’ fall preggo, I have had one in particular recently that hurt, this is the one that resulted in puppy buying, lots of our friends are on number two. Life is not a race – I must keep repeating that.

Well I am actually having a lovely day in spite of everything. I feel much less spacey, the jab didn't bleed at all or bruise. The first one was a shocker but we noticed as I lay in the light yesterday that it is right over quite a big vein so that all makes sense now (and makes me feel right queasy )
I am mega bloated though. Yak. Should I be feeling ovary twinges? I don't have any (worry no 22).

Nelly I'm sure the sweats are just drugs leaving your system or random hotness. I've done a fair whack of research on when I might expect to become full on hot flush menopause and online 'advice' ranges from 6-10 years, consultant said potentially 10 with fsh under 12 but over 10. But I don't think yet for either of us. And who is to say this is true? Stay friends with me and we can buy each other fans and wild yam wotsits. We will have kids by then - promise. And maybe we will miss the menopause/evil teenager clash and instead have nine year old asking us 'mummy why do you have a red face?'

Abs please reassure your dh that tests vary, I say this because mine had a very sad few days only to find his next test was fine and his last one was 'fantastic'. He has taken pine bark, high dose vit c and wellman. He stopped the hot baths, 6 cups of coffee and really cut back beer. He was also ill with flu three months before the low test.

Ten and euro bummer for pre Christmas two week waits. I'm already decided that it will be relaxed drinking rules in the rabbit household after this round (unless a miracle occurs). I declined my champagne and had a champagne glass filled with ginger beer. It was ok

Den, how are you holding up?

Can I ask people what happened to their period when stimming started? Mine vanished and has come back a bit today stop starting. Not sure what to expect really, they usually last 5-6 days, not 2?

Waves all round. I am so jealous of puppy talk!

Oh sea, how did you get on?

Rabbit glad the stabbing went better. I only got ovary twinges towards the end, closer to EC, and even then could have been all in my mind. Cant really recall about AF after starting stimming, probably was a bit unusual, but my AF's are often really short anyway.

Joy that sounds pretty awful, hope it clears up soon!

Sorry I've been a bit slack posting.

lemon that's fantastic news !! Hope the coming months sail by smoothly and lemonette pops out like a champagne cork.

ten I'm very jealous of your puppy too. I had a cocker spaniel when growing up and just adore them.

rabbit sorry about the painful stabbing and bleeding. From what the others say it'll hopefully get easier. Maybe you should think of the hormones as medicine, you're not doing something wrong to your body, you're trying to help it. Like a diabetic injecting insulin?

joy sorry about the songbird. Your cunning code name did make me though. I am convinced that ttc has all sorts of weird effect on our bodies. I remember OH reading something about sperm effecting a woman's hormone balance.

mrsd from what the others say, the different sized follies sound normal. I know its hard not to stress about it all but hopefully the scan tomorrow will reveal just the right number of luscious eggs.

sea hope things went well in the "dungeon". You seem so close to the right number! I really hope you get there for the next cycle.
I hear you on the "I never thought I'd become like this". I was not aware and complete not bothered by other people's diffedness. I have three types of friends. Those the same age as me that had kids ages ago (in their late 20's early 30's) who are now looking at secondary schools. Those that are my age who were single went I started ttc but who are now all married with newborns. And those who are a few years younger than me and are single and worried they'll not find the right guy before it's too late.
I have removed all of the second group from my Facebook feed and have not seen any of them since they announced they were pregnant. I hate that I can't handle it.

MrC has decided that this cycle we are going to dtd everyday! I'm so knackered and I've got a majorly achey abdomen. The test results for the day2 "hormone profile" came back and it's normal, normal, normal. I'm going to attempt to predict a day21 and book in a blood test to hopefully get some kind of info about progesterone levels but I don't feel like this cycle is quite as normal as the last couple, I think all this shagging has thrown things off kilter.

I don't think I could manage every day coco , it wasn't recommend for us anyway because of low sperm count so it's better to give a few days in between to let numbers build up.

So, ec is booked for Monday. The scan today showed about ten follicles so the only question is if they will be ripe by Monday. I asked if there was any possibility of them popping before Monday and he said not. I'm a bit confused by this though, is it not possible for them to release on their own then in an ivf long protocol cycle? Last time I had to take cetrotide to stop that happening but there isn't that this time just the ovitrelle on Saturday. Has anyone else used ovitrelle as the trigger?

I have to continue with the stims tonight and tomorrow. It feels neverending. It's a real pain with work, I'd booked today and tomorrow off because I thought ec was going to be today. It's going to look a bit strange when I phone in sick on monday after a long weekend. I'd also stupidly scheduled a couple of things in on monday which I feel bad about cancelling. It's the juggling and the uncertainty of appointments times that makes this so stressful. joy I have no idea how you coped with the intensity of your rounds.

Hi mrsd. Not long now to EC! 10 follies is great. I've used Ovitrille on all my cycles to trigger. I found it absolutely fine. On two cycles, I was given a double dose (two pens, not sure why - just the dr who saw me for my last scan appointment always prescribed two) and that gave me a small dose of preggo insomnia. That seems to be my main reaction to having any HCG in my system! I was only sleeping a couple of hours a night during my short pregnancy and I was waking earlier and earlier as the hormones got stronger.

I hear you on the uncertainty. It really does make work difficult.

just a quick note to say hallo to everyone. Dtd everyday sounds totally knackering, coco. mr Nolly and I are planning the same. but then the clocks have changed so I suppose long nights drawing in, nothing good on the tv.... good way to stay warm anyway which is to be honest a major concern up north at the moment.

have you all heard of this app called Debaby my life? it blocks all the pics etc from facebook. So far I'm usually happy for friends but younger relatives and colleagues brings out my inner witch. Oh well.

Re Christmas drinking, what a pain. I tried to be good for ages but mentally I've now got to a place where it seems like it'll be tempting fate if I don't carry on drinking as normal. totally illogical i know.

Happy nearly-friday all

x post euro!

mrsd that does sounds really tricky. guilt abotu work to deal with on top of everything else. hope it doesn't get too overwhelming.

Euro – Snap! We are looking to move at the moment and as soon as that’s done I will be getting a cat. Love the idea of a kitten but I will probably just head to Battersea and pick a ginger one. Love ginger toms.

Abs – Glad to hear your DH is more cheerful. Give him a bit of time and I am sure you guys will come to a solution. A good (male) friend of mine had some issues with his SA when his wife was going through ivf and he told me Chinese herbs really helped.

Ten – Love doggies but it’s a no go for me right now. Have to wait until I have a baby and then get one! Ha! I like your motto about life not being a race… it gets hard after 3 years though… I just got to the 4th year. Urgh.

Rabbit – You sound much better. I think a relaxed drinking policy is best. As long as you are not binge drinking, everything in moderation is fine I think.

Joy – How’s the songbird? Better? Did you have your follow up yet? I went in yesterday it was horrible. 20 people standing in the hallway, not even in the waiting room. It’s so busy in there it’s unreal. Went to the dungeon for the 1st time and even though I have heard how er… basic it is, it’s quite shocking how small and dingy the room is. Nurses were lovely though.

Coco – DTD everyday sounds… tiring!? Oh dear maybe you can convince DH to do every other day instead? I try to do that to cover the basis – Gosh what a romantic I am!

I hear you on the FB updates. I actually am okay with photos of cute babies and children on FB, it’s preggos rubbing their tums on my feed that I can’t stand. I have noticed only instadiffers do that. The friends who took a bit of time to get that BFP never do it.

Lemons – Are you still celebrating?! Any symptoms?

Cos – How are you?

MrsD – Any more news about when EC might be?

Not much to report. Intralipids (mayo) went down without too much drama except for small veins causing some issues when they tried to put the thingy in. Took around 1 and a half hours and I felt the chills and headachy but nothing I can’t handle. Now more waiting (for 2 weeks) and then another Cytokine test. Yay! Much prefer the mayo than Humira.

I've heard a few people say they suffered badly with insomnia in early pregnancy. Which seems crazy considering the tiredness and fatigue. I have never allowed myself to think much about how I'll cope with pregnancy symptoms.

How are you feeling now euro? I thought your plan of action sounded sensible. At least there are plenty of distractions over Christmas. We will get this cycle out the way and then will do the final one in Feb or March. After that it will be a long break to decide what we're going to do in our lives (gulp)

rabbit Today is the first day I've felt anything related to ovary twinges so that's after 12 days stimming. I think I might feel achey because he was poking around a lot in the scan.

x post with euro, nolly and mrsd
M

mrsd - I had ovitrelle for both iuis - not the same I know but they were injected around 1 day before the iui took place. I always wondered about the timing of it all too but didn't have enough knowledge to ask the right questions.

nolly - re drinking i gave up drinking for a long time but have taken a much more relaxed approach now. I only ever drink at weekends and never more than 2 drinks at one sitting. I hated people thinking I wasn't drinking because i was pregnant, when nothing was further from the truth.

x post with everyone! sea well done on surviving the mayo. I still can't quite believe that it's a treatment. The immune stuff is fascinating. I have a friend who has a very overactive immune system and is life threateningly allergic to lots of things for example nuts, latex, stings etc. She's known that she was allergic to these things for a long time obviously but her reactions had been getting more frequent and more extreme to the point where she was getting anxious about leaving the house. Anyway, they eventually diagnosed what the problem is, something in her blood is much higher than it should be and she'd been having treatment to get it down. I'm wondering now if it was something like humira. I'll have to ask her. The interesting thing is she got pregnant with no problem, she was an instaduffer and she said that while pregnant her immune system was lowered so that it was at the level of a normal person.

Mrsd - That's so interesting about your friend. I do have allergies but they are by no means life threatening. Interesting your friend's immunes went to normal levels when she got pregnant as well. Humira is really used for chronic arthritis and Crohns disease. What’s interesting is many people who have Crohns find their symptoms get better after they have babies. Tbh I am only half convinced about immunes myself. I was quite anti Argy when I first read about them but of course the stats got me to look further. It was conversations with friends who I study with (one is a phd and works in r&d in drug development and 2 docs) that made me think maybe immunes aren’t just a way of deceiving infertile and desperate couples to part with their cash. Anyways… we shall see. What I do know is there are a lot of unknowns in science.

Mrsd – 10 follies sounds excellent to me and i’m sure they’ll be ripe and perfect. I had ovitrelle to trigger during IUI and pregnl to trigger during ivf. I’m sure they are all pretty similar. Are you taking anything to stop ovulation? It’s a bloody nightmare trying to organise this around work isn’t it. Sometimes I wish I would have come clean as my anxiety would have basically disappeared but I didn’t want to jeopardise my job and I couldn’t bear the thought of people knowing about it. I’m always convinced people are looking at my stomach anyway and so it would be awful if people knew about the ivf. Really interesting about your friend being an instadiffer. I think everyone is so different and from what I can see from some of the people I’ve met, immune treatment really has got them pregnant.

Sea – well done on the intrallipds and glad it wasn’t too bad. And can I ask what happens if they don’t go down? I’m sure I’ve met people there who had all the treatment, it didn’t go down and they went ahead with ivf and got pregnant anyway. And you finally made it down to the dungeon! What a joy. I don’t mind it down there but there is something about the smell that evokes a thousand memories. Not particular bad memories but the smell just makes me slightly on edge and nervous. I’m in the clinic this pm. Thanks for reminding me because I would have totally forgotten! It really is going to be pointless, i was so disheartened last time as I had sent over all these questions in advance and a doctor i had never met took the meeting yet opened my file for the first time whilst I was there. Everything she said could be done for next time, didn’t happen. That’s where I find them irritating, you have no control if things don’t work
because none of the doctors make any of the decisions.

Rabbits – hope stabbing is still going ok.

Coco – how interesting to hear about sperm affecting a woman’s hormones. I think it was Rabbit who said it wasn’t until TTC that she started spotting. I started getting songbird issues when I started ttc. My clockwork cycles went haywire too. Something to research me thinks. Can’t believe you are dtd everyday. How exhausting!

Euro – i hope the scratch is alright. Can’t believe you are going again. I can see why you will be toasting ‘piss off’ to the end of this year but I hope you will toasting with a glass of water by then.

Been to Nutricentre this morning and bought very expensive probiotics which have to be kept in a fridge. The songbird woke me in the night. I really have never had it so badly. Normally one dose of cream gets rid of it. I can only think that I have been eating so incredibly badly that until the sugar etc gets out of my system , it will just keep feeding on it. I’m trying to starve my body of it. Sorry I sound like a broken record discussing my grossness every post. You must all be grimacing.

Did anyone read that interview with Caprice? She believed that once her surrogate got pregnant , her body relaxed and that’s why she got pregnant too. I hear so many of these stories and I really do wonder sometimes whether some people, who are unexplained, can be so het up about ttc that their bodies prevent them from getting pregnant. Perhaps it’s bollocks but even a woman I met who tried for 13 years said it only happened when she totally gave up. does anyone think there is any truth in it?

Well I don't think I was stressed at the start of TTC, Joy. Although maybe subconsciously I was. My sister had IVF, a friend had recently lost a baby late in pregnancy, and another friend had actually died due to complications post-birth. So perhaps I was full of mental blocks from the start. Though that probably doesn't explain my empty ovaries. So who knows. All I know is that I find these stories hard because it is what I end up pinning my hopes on. You know: "ok I've given up hoping and am ready to move on to DE but I'll get up diffed now because that's what happens" .

Anyway just a quick one there as I realised I am getting distracted and have had a better work morning which I must keep up, but well done Rabbit, and Sea I really hope the Mayo (which is what, creamy egg-based sauces??!) does its thing. Oh and Den I think this sounds good news! And I say sod work. Can you in any way change your day off, say you were doing something with a friend who needs to reschedule?

Right must go, as I have no excuse to Sod Work!

Joy Songbird is nasty! Hopefully the probiotics will help. Sugar really is the worst thing for it but also caffeine and wheat based products. You poor thing. I hope it flies away soon!

I read the Caprice interview. I think there probably is something in it. Stress can cause a whole load of health problems, why not issues with getting pregnant as well. Having said that, like nelly i wasn't stressed for the first 2 and a half years of ttc at all, at least not about getting pregnant.

Re immunes. The Argy are v strict about Cytokines. They used to just make you do 2 lots of Humira, don't bother to retest and let you go to ivf but they changed this about a year or two ago apparently. I think I am allowed 2 more mayo bags and then they will let me cycle anyway (assuming bloods, hormones etc are all okay) but maybe give me ivig along the way. Apparently the Humira carries on working. I don't mind the treatments so much but it's the 2 week wait after the treatment to have the re-test that gets me. I hope you are wrong about the follow up today. I do understand your frustration. Everyone there is just a messenger for Mr T, even the docs! Did you ever actually meet him?

Nelly I agree with you. I too find these stories about getting preggo once you are relaxed and not stressed hard. Mostly because friends hear it and then say to me, "You don't need ivf, you just need to relax". So many people have been saying that to me recently. It makes me really mad = more stress... Grrrrr

Nelly - yes that is what I think....if I just move on it will happen. I have been stressed about pregnancy from early on and that's why I sometimes wonder.

Sea - this must be all adding up for you. I can see why the 2ww are stressful. It's all very drawn out. Anyway hopefully this mayo bag is just what you need.

Well I take back what I said about my follow up. I felt it was very helpful. Obviously there is a problem with our embryos. The first option they mentioned was pgd but it would have to be done on day3- which is not as affective as on day5. I said that seemed pointless considering they weren't even getting to blasto so that kind of suggests they all have abnormalities. He agreed but he said if this showed all of them had abnormalities then it kind of tells us what is going on. Anyway v expensive. He ditched that idea. I pointed out my very low amh and Then he said they are doing more and more mild ivfs and he said too many drugs compromise quality. Basically what Cos said originally.
Obviously not going back there but I may see if the nhs can do a mild stimulated cycle for me. I found all of this useful because it kind of gives me hope that if I just have a milder cycle then perhaps we could strike gold. He did say we just needed a lot of luck. The doc had done my last two transfers and he said he was very upset it hadn't worked. I am sure he doesn't mean it but it helps when they show a human side.

Joy that sounds really useful, and positive. so glad you feel you have a plan which may really help. i'm sure it stands to reason that if you produce 4 or 5 rather than 13 that that may help with their quality. And I may branch out and change careers .

It's very odd that there are so many stories of people who move on and then fall pg. I think I mentioned before the study in De Beer's book about nk cells measuring lower in women after a year who'd adopted or were successful. It's such a shame we aren't in 50- 100 yrs time when they've figured it all out!

MrsD that sounds really good, keep going, not long now. Try not to worry, easier said than done.

Sea glad the eggnog went down well!

Waves all.

Evening lovelies! Just poppig in to say well done to the stabbers! I am impressed how you're doing, rabbit!

Ten sounds like an excellent number, mrsd! Fingers crossed for a great haul of ripe egglets monday!

I really hope the mayo is doing its job, sea!

Good to hear your debrief was useful, joy! Really hope the nhs round will do the trick!

Much love to all of you! Am thinking of you all. But too knackered to post much. Still in a state of disbelief, but v grateful! Tomorrow 9 weeks...

Den ten is great. Do you feel a bit better about it all?

nice to see you lemon, so glad you are ok.

Joycep I'm glad you feel you appointment was useful. Interesting about the drugs and egg quality. I think natural ivf might be something I would do..but my funds are not endless and I am getting impatient to just get to the next chapter. I'm mostly thinking about donor eggs at the moment. Maybe it's because both my nurse and consultant have raised it with me, it kind of faces you in that direction. I had a wave of feeling very sad about that again today. Your clinic sounds unreal. I can't visualise what that must be like. Mine is calm and serene and often very very quiet. H is still excited by the free drinks machine. I find your dedication and strength quite awe inspiring actually Joyce. It will be your turn soon.

Cos I was thinking just the other day that technology will get so much better in my lifetime, like with putting the genetic material in a healthy egg that is being worked on now. For me, that could be the answer and I will miss it.

Nelly, the fact that we have good enough sperm, clear tubes, eggs, ovulation and a womb leaves me thinking every month that maybe just maybe...I hate that! But maybe I'd find I hated it if I knew for definite there was no way. My cons said it was highly unlikely but went on to tell me that it happens and that he's seen it happen to people like me all the time. Why not me then?! Wail.

As for stress, I've been stressed since the first month it didn't work. I decided I was married, with a lovely man, both my best friends were pregnant and I was READY. I cried the first time it didn't work because I just thought that it would. And I got a really bad feeling that never went away. I was in a state of such high stress before my hsg that my ibs that had been gone for years returned in a bad way and I was having palpitations. With fibroid gate and the surgeries I got to the point that I didn't want to leave the house. Thankfully I seem to have got in a much much better place with stress ever since mentally giving up on it a year ago. I read an interesting blog piece on the stats for conceiving in the long term for those who don't conceive easily, I will try and find it and post it here. I am with her theory, which was that rather than it being stress, it is just playing the long game statistically. But, that said, there have been periods over the last few years where I really think my adrenaline must have been a barrier. Or my shit eggs!

This has got long! Will go find that blog.

infertility maths link

Hello lovely ladies

Just wanted to send massive good luck to lovely den for Monday's EC. I will be thinking of you and sending lots and lots of positive egg thoughts your way.

sea you've been amazingly patient through all of this. I so hope you're on the home stretch with the immunes and can start your round soon. I think you're an absolute champ.

joy I agree that you've managed brilliantly. I'm so glad you still get your NHS rounds, you've had an incredibly rough time. But you and Roy are going to get your baby. And you will be such a great mum.

rabbit you are looking very pretty in your FB photos that you posted recently. I'm sorry you're still feeling so sad. Well done on the stabbing, I know it's no fun. I hope soon all this will be a distant memory.

ten thinking of your little frosties and feeling positive.

nelly the stuff about relaxing - eh, I don't know. I think in my case (the no periods) stress probably played into my infertility. But who knows, life and the universe don't seem to play by the rules when it comes to babies. Otherwise why would so many women in war zones manage to have babies and yet it's so hard for women who desperately want them and live in nice places? It's just unfair, is what it is.

Waves to everyone. I think of you all a lot and am cheering you on from the sidelines and sending lots and lots of love and huge Southern beauty queen style tail feather fluffs your way. All's well with me, they sorted out my mat leave so will get 20 weeks off with some money, which is great by US standards. Am feeling very lucky indeed, and hoping you'll all join me on the other side soon.

joy I'm glad the follow up was more useful this time. I hope the songbird buggers off soon.

sea I admire your patience. I hope the mayo does the trick.

critter that's great news about your mat leave.

I actually know a couple for whom it happened when they stopped trying. Her point about statistics is interesting though, and I've always thought that all those people who supposedly "stop trying" are actually still trying unless they go back to using contraception.

I think I have felt pretty stressed throughout ttc. In fact, now I am probably the most relaxed about it that I have been. I am starting to think about life after ttc and bizarrely that is making me more relaxed about the whole thing. It doesn't seem to have made me magically pregnant unfortunately!