TTC 10 months + Part 17.

[MuddyWellyNelly]

For all the lovely 10+ers, and anyone else lurking, who has been trying for long enough to start worrying. This is a great place to rest until the elusive BFP shows up.

I feel exactly the same rabbit. One of the things in my favour is my non-wonky cycles, so mucking them up with drugs seemed criminal. But my cycles normalised quickly after both the mc and the low drug cycle I did.

And I didn't want kids at all until I hit 30/31 and I was mostly an idiot with twatty boyfriends in my 20s. I do wonder about the window from 30-34 though, when I was essentially waiting for mr euro to be ready. Would starting a bit earlier have made a different? I'll never know. But a look on the relationships board quickly makes me feel very lucky to have such a lovely man.

A quick one to offer handholds: to Mrsd for today's scan (lots of good quality egglets pls), rabbit for brave stabbing and Absy for dealing with sperm news.

Cos I'm glad it's all over but cross the docs didn't scan you to make sure. Hope you are feeling ok.

Waves to everyone else. Hope to catch up properly later. Too much work at the moment.

Absy I feel for you and your DH but as someone else here mentioned if it is abnormal forms icsi is probably going to be what they recommend. This was our issue as well, there isn't much that they recommend to address male factor, even some of the well worn truths such as no cycling etc are actually not fully proven when you do the research. Good luck and I hope you get to see someone helpful soon.

Joy I too had got to a point where I thought the only way for us to get a dog was to have a baby, then I realised I can get someone to look after it everyday, and it might stop me getting so frustrated with ttc if I at least got to have the puppy even if we can't get the baby (does that even make sense?!).

Cos frustrating they didn't just scan you for your piece of mind, I guess to them it is no big deal, where as to us it is something else to worry about. I can understand the thoughts on self medication, I would be tempted, can it cause any issues though? Any horrid side effects?

MrsD I was always going to be at risk, I have pco, they had explained that to me at the beginning if the cycle. I always have about 12 follies I think, they diagnose through your blood tests. Also I felt pretty gross, I looked quite pregnant, I am sure a couple if my friends think I am indeed pregnant, I caught them looking at my stomach and clicking the fact I wasn't really drinking. In terms of treatment it was just drink loads of water and eat loads of protein....how are you getting on?

Hang on posting this so I don't loose it but will be back

MrsD good luck at your scan today, it will be fine, you will have plenty of follies, there is also literally not a thing you can do to influence this outcome, you have done everything you can, distract yourself as much as possible...

Rabbit I iced for my clexane injections which are renowned for being stingy. This way I really didn't notice it. On a couple of occasions I had a bit of blood, I think that can be pretty normal. I also did all my stabbing, I found although the first few times were wierd this was preferable for me. I also did everything very very slowly in terms of the in and out of needle and injection itself. Also second the leaving the needle in for 10 seconds afterwards this stops stuff coming out a bit I think?

Thank you all for your positive thoughts on number of embies, here's hoping I can get underway with my fet this cycle.

Waves to all, including lurking fail journos.....

Also Euro just wanted to say that I always react quite badly to hormones (the pill is a nightmare) but I really didn't find this cycle too bad despite ohss. So here's hoping you also don't suffer any side effects from the drugs. Do you do the scratch and cycle this month? BFP for Christmas you say??!

Rabbit sorry for the stabbing reaction - I second mrsd's advice. Hope the next one is a breeze. It does feel wrong on so many levels doesn't it, but you're started now, in for a penny and all that - keep going and whatever happens it can only help bring you closer to the goal.

euro and rabbit I hate the thought of what I'm putting my body through. It makes me feel quite sick when I think about it which is one of the reasons I try not to research my drugs too much.

euro a BFP in your stocking would be amazing. And if not then at least you can drown in mulled wine and eggnog. A friend of mine (an instaduff) got a BFP on xmas morning and wrapped her pee stick for her DH to open in front of his family. Ughh, can you imagine?

ten I hope the bloating goes down soon for you. Looking pregnant when you're not isn't great. I had a tight dress on the other day and when I looked at myself sideways on I could see a bump. I would hate to think people are wondering.

Thanks for all the good wishes. I had the scan this morning and I'm not quite sure what to make of it. There are quite a few follicles but the same thing is happening as happened last time and they're growing at very different rates. So a few are going to be ready for collection on Thursday but the others won't be big enough. It's a balancing act for the doctors, do they wait for the others to catch up at the risk of these ones overcooking. The doctor ummed and ahhed for ages and then said he wanted to take blood and get the results before making a decision. So, I have to phone at 2 to be told what the next step is. I'm terrified that it's all going wrong again. I felt panicky on the way home, a proper anxious mess. If this round doesn't work then I think we might have to accept that I'm not suited to ivf, even after downregging my eggs still don't grow at the same rate. I want to cry.

Sending mrsd lots of positive thoughts and luffs for today's scan. My follies all grew at different rates during the 2nd ivf but I still got 8 mature eggs out of 11 and it's the cycle the ginster came from. I really hope all is looking good today and its not long until EC.

ten sorry to hear about the ohss. I was at high risk last cycle and got it mildly, but they let me do ET. I dont have pcos, but a fair few follicles normally and I think ohss must be more of a risk when the issue is male factor. 5 embies is great! What day were they frozen on? Hope you are feeling better now. Btw I had a similar reaction re the arse bullet antibiotics, but the lovely dr was sympathetic (and didn't tell me they shove some up there when you are out during EC!)

Aww rabbits, I have to fess up that I did cry when Mr G did the clexane injections, as they hurt and bled a bit. I found icing the area helped. You have started though, wohoo! I felt odd about it all, but then saw the tiny amount of drugs I was injecting and felt a bit better. Lots of luffs and keep going.

absy sorry DH has taken the abnormal forms news so hard. As everyone has said, there's v little research into male factor and really not much that can be done, if you already have a healthy lifestyle etc. Unfortunately all the treatment focuses on the woman (which made Mr G feel extra bad, esp when I cried at my injections!). We did notice that gonal f (one of the ivf stimming drugs) can be used to improve sperm and were tempted to give Mr G a shot, but the leaflet implied a 6 month course would be needed, which would be super expensive.

cos I'm pleased to hear the hospital thought everything is back to normal - are you happy with that diagnosis? I say take the arse bullets! They're pretty mild and can't do any harm, other than possibly delay AF.

euro pleased to hear you are back onboard the ivf train. I so so hope you get your Xmas bfp. That would be just ace.

sea so sorry about the immunes. I would be tempted to give a cycle a shot, but I have no patience! Even if the immunes do muck up implantation, hopefully you would have something for the freezer that you could use once you have them sorted?

joy hope the follow up appointment goes well. I think you should get a puppy! Our fur baby was a great distraction, although it meant I was ridiculous upset when she finally popped her clogs. Hope the songbird isn't too horrible.

Waves and luffs to everyone else.

That journo searching the conception Freds for news stories sickens me. It's also totally lazy journalism, as he obviously just googled for rude words and decided that the just shagging thread was about just that, when really it's about ladies trying to win their babies. The comment about us discussing mucous particularly pissed me off. What a total knob, who I'm sure has an instadiff wife.

All is ok with me. Have about 2.5 weeks left at work eeek, but am now feeling heavily preggers so looking forward to doing feck all for a few weeks. It's still all rather surreal and I still don't truly believe there'll be a baby in a month or two!

X post mrsd, big handhold. It only takes a few mature eggs for it to work and the other follicles may well catch up. Could they scan you again thurs am to see how things are doing? Would they increase the stimming drugs? The antagonist should stop the more mature eggs from popping.

Ps sorry for Fred hogging, but totally forgot to say a MASSIVE congrats to lemons!

mrsd I had follies growing at different rates on the low stimms cycle I did and it did cause me a lot of worry. I kept thinking EC would be too late or too early. But they ended up getting 4 mature eggs just from one side (couldn't reach the other ovary), which was a good result as I started the drugs late in the cycle as a bit of an afterthought. I do remember how stressful it all was though.

Gin not long to go now!

thanks everyone. He was in a really bad way last night, didn't want to talk about it, and I'm sure he's in shock.

Thanks for all the suggestions - I am in London and will look into it.

Aw, absy the poor guy. I think it is hard (as Gin mentioned) if there is male factor as it is still you that has to have the treatment. My bestie had ICSI for male factor and her husband was quite upset at seeing all she had to go through.

Motility and count are fine, there's just abnormalities (e.g. defective heads, two tails and stuff).

He hasn't really said what can be done (if anything) to help fix it, beyond taking vitamins. He just didn't want to talk about it last night. Poor guy. As my friend pointed out, it's also a huge blow to his ego.

Den I think it's good that other people have had follies growing at different rates. I'm keeping everything crossed that it all comes good.

Gin yay to mat leave on the horizon. I'm so glad for you.

I feel strange and not in the way id expected. I feel really spaced out and brain foggy. It is definitely a new unfelt before thing. If it doesn't pass it's going to make my job impossible. Mm. It's not especially unpleasant but like I've been given some kind of mega tranquilliser. I'm on six vials of Menopur. Eek.

absy most sperm are abnormal form, only a small percentage are normal. If the count is good then it might not matter too much, unless they are all abnormal. Did they give you a percentage?

rabbit your body might start to adjust as the days go by. I haven't really noticed anything except I feel a little more anxious than normal but that might just be the stress of ivf.

gin it's nice to hear from you.

Well, ec is not happening on Thursday. The Dr thinks my estrogen is a little low and that we risk the same thing happening with not enough mature eggs if we go ahead. So, more stimming tonight and tomorrow and then a scan on Thursday to decide when to do ec. I'm not full of confidence, I worry that the decent eggs will overcook and the other ones are duds anyway. But then I don't want to go through ec if there is a risk of not having mature eggs.

Hand hold Den. I'm sure there are good eggs in there. I'm sorry you are going through this. Thinking of you.

Since stabbing my period has entirely vanished. This ivf malarkey is full os strange wonders. I'm also THIRSTY!

den please try not to panic, mine all grew at totally random rates as well, i think they showed me a graph and they were all over the place, I think this is normal, they unmed and ahhhd over when to do ec for me. Hand hold!!!

Rabbit totally recognise your symptoms, I felt like I had a really bad hangover ie really spaced out the whole time. Keep drinking water at least 3L a day.

Gin HA, they did warn me and in fact ask my permission I insert arse bullets while under, the afterwards aspect was a bit more of a shock though. Wow how time has flown, nearly there!!!

I spoke to the clinic today and it is a no go this month, so we have to wait until December to do fet, a bit annoying in terms of Christmas etc as I would really rather know either way and be able to have a few drinks (get trollied) over Christmas and new year instead of not drinking and cancelling loads of plans for the possibility of a big fat bfn. It just adds insult to injury if everyone is assuming you aren't drinking because you are preggo and you are actually just fat from IVF and unable to drink. Perhaps I should asses my suitability to be a parent .....

Den how big are the biggest just now? There is a big range in the size that is deemed ripe. So even if some are say 18mm on Thursday they won't necessarily pop. I think delaying sounds like the right plan.

Rabbit well done on starting. I 'fess that my last two jabs I did, I got bruising, out of 3 cycles. Don't know why! Sometimes i got a tiny bit of blood and sometimes not. The first is the hardest. I found I needed to hold the pen and almost push back against the plunger to stop it being too ouch. Not sure if that makes sense, but I was pushing so hard to press the plunger that I was then pushing the needle in more as well.

Absy I actually made a spreadsheet of the various numbers to work out how many good Sperm MrN had. You know, volume times count times morphology etc. As others have said, poor forms can be overcome by high volume and count, for example.

Joy how is the songbird doing? Better I hope.

Doll can't believe you are still waiting!

Euro is this your first scratch? I'm still angry that I didn't get a chance to see if mine made the difference?

Does anyone know if IVF drugs could still be causing issues? I keep waking up very hot which is odd in our cold house. I fear the menopause, which lets face it is not impossible. No hot flushes any other time though, so perhaps our new mattress protector is just very cosy.

Ten I'm sorry about the OHSS. I admire your ability to imitate an ostrich. Fingers crossed the frosties were good ones.

Gin, lovely to see you as always!

Buzzy how are you feeling now? You deserve only good health, easy pregnancy and sneeze birth.

Is anyone else in the FB gang that I've missed?

Sorry very scattergun post. I'm all over the place just now. Very unmotivated with work. Someone tell me how to fix that please?!

Loves to everyone else I've missed.

Very unmotivated at work, oh Nelly snap! It's awful isn't it. And is your mattress protector memory foam? If so I've had to turn our mattress over and use the non foam side it was SO hot I woke up sweating every morning (nice). Where are you in your cycle just now?

MrsD I agree with the others - my first round I had only 2 follies anywhere near the right size and they kept upping the dose and keeping me going and eventually got 9 - no guarantee but its definately not something 'wrong' with you iyswim and def all about doctors judgements with meds and timings so fingers crossed for you that he's judging right.

Rabbit good luck for the evenings stabbing and yes keep drinking. We're you told to drink loads of milk also?

Ten that's frustrating about waiting - all this bleeding waiting we'll all have the patience of saints forever I think after all this.

Absy that is really hard, I hope he's ok. Might be worth pursuing a second opinion, these docs views can vary quite a lot.

Big waves Gin.

Hi everyone,

rabbit sorry about the blood - I got that too once or twice, I think it happens when you hit a blood vessel. Ice and a really generous pinch of skin flab before doing the jab, 90 degree angle, as others have said, worked best.

den sorry about the stress over the follies. They do just grow at different rates, I think that's normal! I think nelly has good advice - better to wait longer than to go too early and get immature eggs. I know this must be super stressful.

ten I had mild OHSS too, it's good your doctor is keeping an eye on it, it is not fun at all and meant I looked pregnant even when I wasn't (or when the baby was the size of a lentil) because of the bloating. Very uncomfortable. Great news about the frosties though. You are on your way for an autumnal baby, I reckon. Incidentally I boozed through stimming and after EC (and had a celebratory prosecco when I learnt I was pregnant) so you can always have the odd glass of festive libations.

euro I so hope you get a Christmas BFP. You bloody well deserve one!

nelly sorry you've been hot. I always get too hot when the heating switches on at night. The ideal is to have a cold face and a warm body at night! Nice cool room and lovely cosy duvet.

absy sorry about your guy. But I do know some beautiful ICSI babies so there is totally hope for you both! I think it must be particularly miserable for men as they get less support and there's the guilt factor too.

cos glad that this horrible period is over. I would be self-medicating too. Thinking of you lovely. And sorry you didn't get a reassurance scan.

sea you have been on my mind a lot - you've been so brave through this awful drawn-out wait. I so hope you get some good news soon and can move on with IVF.

Rabbit - stingy and bleeding all sounds very familiar. There is nothing pleasant or attractive about it il afraid. My stomach went completely black from all my injections. Oh and I have felt like I have betrayed my body by injecting. I am sure it sometimes is telling me to just stop it. Poor thing.

Mrsd - impossible not to worry of course but others have good points. Follies grow at different rates. I have no idea what mine were doing as i would take off my glasses so I couldn't see the monitor. They were probably all over the place too. Big hand hold.

Ten - I like your thinking and it all makes sense. I think my mum would look after a pup and dog for us during the week. She feels sorry for us too and think one will do us good! Nothing like the sympathy vote!

Cos - I am pleased everything is back to normal. They were a bit lazy but at least all is now negative.

Absy - what is his morphology? Anything over 2% is normal.
A low lying/ asymptomaticinfection can cause issues so a specialist would be able to rule this out. But totally understand how it can affect men's ego.

Nelly - I don't know about the after effects of ivf. I am sure it can do all sorts of wacky things but it won't be anything to worry about.

Out of all the songbirds who have graced my body this is the worst. Nightmare of a bird. Painful, stingy and sore. Not that you need to know this of course!

Rabbit - Sorry you are feeling like this. Sounds nerve racking. Hope stabbing is getting better. A big hand hold to you. I also understand the fear of putting drugs and hormones into own body. I was never on the pill and never took painkillers. Now look at me! Injecting myself to get my immune system down. It’s crazy stuff but as Euro said, it’s all for a good cause.

Den – So sorry to hear scan and delays but your docs do sound like they know what they are doing. I know it’s easier said than done but try not to worry. A big handhold.

Absy – Other’s suggestion of seeing a male factor specialist sounds like a good idea. Your poor DH, it must be so hard for him. I often think it’s tougher for men to deal with these things esp as the treatment ends up with us ladies anyway. A big handhold.

Critter – so nice to see you on here. When are you due? Did you ever get your maternity pay sorted out with HR? Thanks for the lovely thought. It’s been hard waiting so long to get going but I am feeling okay about it now.

Cos – Totally understand why you want to self medicate. You never know , it might just work. Goodness knows you deserve you.

Ten – Grrr at more waiting. Sorry about the OHSS… that sounds uncomfortable. Take heart you have so many snow babies!

Gin – Not long for you now. You must be so excited. It will be all worth it when you hold that baybee in your arm.

Doll – It’s getting v close now. You will get to hold mini doll v soon. Yay!

Nolly – Euro is right. NICE and HEFA are all v anti immune ivf so I really am in the hands of the argy. Would it be worth getting a referral to a cycle monitoring clinic so they can check out and test for PCOS?
Nelly – I find it tough to motivate myself sometimes too. I find exercise and hiding my smart phone helps!

Euro – I hopeful for a xmas BFP for you.

Joy – Songbird sounds grim. Hope it’s better. Unfortunately sugar and wheat does seem to make it worst. I find probiotics to be helpful. Have you had your follow up yet? I decided to stick with the Argy after much debating with MrS.

Buzz – How are you feeling? Are you better?

I too am angry about crap and lazy journo spying on these threads. I am not surprise when the daily hate does it but quite amaze that the indy also indulge in that kind of journalism. I agree with someone further down on here who said he must be married to an instadiffer.

I have a number of friends who are engaged to be married at the moment and my fear is that they will get pregnant before me. I know it’s not a race and everyone is different but I do wonder how many will be instadiffers. All my married friends bar one are preggos or have 1 or 2 or even 3 kids. Sigh. I never thought I would become like this.

As for Cytokines. They did come down to 35. The magic cut off is 30 ie. they will only do ivf once it’s 30 or below. No more Humira now so it’s onto intralipids. Going for this tomorrow. At least I will get to see the dungeon that every talks about at the clinic.

Ten I'm so jealous of your pup. Sounds so sweet. I love animals. Always wanted a cat or dog but my life just doesn't allow it - too much travel and live in an apartment. I have been dreaming of moving so I can finally buy a cat. A dog is just too much commitment right now.

den I'm dreading this palaver again so I really feel for you.

sea we're the same - desperate for a fur baby. We almost got a cat a little while ago but the problem is that our house at the moment is a bit odd and all open plan (apart from doors on the bedrooms and bathrooms) so there is no way of keeping kitty away from the "naice" furniture. As soon as we move though, it's kitteh time! A pup is still too difficult though as we both work all day and I travel a fair bit.

ten I hear you on the timing. If my cycle times work out as I would expect from here, I will be testing around Xmas day, so I will miss all the lead up. I'm thinking of just stocking up for drowning my sorrows. And maybe planning a big NYE party as I really, really want to see the back of this year!

nelly I often get night sweats at certain times of the month. I can remember getting them when I lived in my old flat and I sold that when I was 32, so I don't think I can blame the menopause!

Yes, this will be my first scratch. They suggested it at my follow up appointment for cycle 2 but the way the timing worked, I was already at my first scan for cycle 3 by then, so it was too late (and I couldn't put it back a month or two because of the work travel) so we went ahead without it. Both clinics suggested it, and it seems a simple low cost way of improving success rates.

joy I'm sorry you are still suffering.

sea I tracked down that article. It was terrible. Very teenage ("eugh, grown ups having sechs to make babies") and a very insensitive and intrusive report on a senitive subject. Indie journo, if you are still trawling for juicy titbits and reading this thread, you are a khunt. And you can quote me on that in another of your pathetic articles.