TTC 10+ months, Part 11

[buzzybee123]

A very friendly and supportive thread for those taking way longer than they had ever expected to make a baby.

rabbit I hope you are feeling better today.

I hope the artemis embies are coming along well!

sarlat mint tea might help. I always find walking or jogging helps - I think the gravity just shakes everything down to wear it should be if my body is struggling with that. Go for a walk somewhere without many people around so you can, ahem, parp, if it is all wind!

Gin I think Gorgy quoted me around £350 for the test from memory, so not that bad. But then you might need other tests to discover the cause of the wonky DNA if there is a problem. We were talking about this last night and decided that when my period comes we will go ahead with the Greek tests for infection and perhaps this too. (BTW, could you choose another phrase other than "suck it up" when discussing the masterbatorium? )

mrsd my friends have for the most part been enormously sympathetic and helpful. Some have had problems of their own (infertility, miscarraiges, etc) and I think we all found it cathartic to share). I do get a few "relax and it'll happen" comments from my instadiffer friend, but 90% of the time she is also supportive. Some of the people I have told have been having problems too, but hadn't mentioned it until I did. Once it was out in the open, we could talk about and exchange info in the same way we do on here, which I think has been helpful. I have used some discretion about who I have told though.

There was already a test for DNA fragmentation (e.g. the one used by Gorgy), but I think the samples were sent to the US. If for some reason the owner of the US patent wouldn't license it over here (or only for an extortionate price) I guess the researchers had to come up with something new. But I completely take your point about being a bit sceptical wherever money is involved.

Euro interesting stuff on the sperm DNA, thanks for sharing. There is a lot about both egg and sperm quality that they still don't know. joy what are the things they recommend to improve sperm quality, other than the no caffeine/ no booze/ lots of vits regime - does that actually make a difference to DNA? I need to get Mr A's results from the clinic to compare with the previous ones and see if his months of enforced I'm such a bitch abstinence from all the things he likes have actually made a difference.

Nelly I didn't feel anything on the stimming drugs until the last couple of days when my lower stomach started to feel really heavy and uncomfortable and I got stabby ov type pains. Gin is absolutely right, it feels like having a big pair of kahunas swinging around in your lower abdomen! How was the scan?

Doll how are you? Hope you did the trigger shot OK. Did Ken get his meeting sorted for tomorrow? Will be thinking about you tomorrow - you too Beryl, fx for the next blood test.

Kitty lovely of you to pop in. Can't believe you are 35 weeks! I completely understand what you mean about still not really believing you are pregnant

Mrsden good on you for giving the preggers friend sympathy. I'm not sure I'd be so kind! I have been very careful who I told. Only three friends know about the IVF and have been brilliant, but they all have personal circumstances that made it more likely they would be understanding, iyswim. Last year I did tell two other friends (both have kids) that we were having problems and was met with embarrassed silence. Needless to say I have not said anything else to either of them.

Sar I'm sorry you're still in the tent. Strong coffee is good for constipation, and abdominal massage, otherwise as Euro suggests going for a run does seem to shake things down! It's not surprising you are under stress though - handing in your notice is a big deal, and the clinic's uncertainty over the op date won't be helping. Are you having some time off over xmas before you start the new job? A bit of time for R&R sounds necessary. Hugs. And you are not hogging the thread!

Gin hang in there. I can totally relate to the alternate moods of hope and despair.

I'm a bit glum today after this morning's call from the embryologist. We didn't make the grade to go to blastocyst stage so i am going in for ET tomorrow morning. The 8 embies are still going and at various stages but most are grade 2-3, and we would have needed at least 4 at grade 2 to go to blastocyst. The embryologist said she didn't want to risk waiting which I can't help but see it as a bad sign. At the risk of outing myself, tomorrow is also my birthday. Mr A has pointed out that it will be the best birthday present ever if it works but I can't think beyond the unpleasantness of the procedure - I am the kind of wimp who has fainted after a smear on several occasions. Still, it won't be the worst birthday I have ever had . November is often a shitty month. I am thinking of abandoning it and instead having an official birthday in the summer, like the Queen.

I really want a big glass of . It doesn't help that since EC Mr A has adopted the lifestyle of a French intellectual - strong coffees, wine and little glasses of beer. he'd better not have taken up the gauloises too or I will fecking kill him

Sorry ladies. I will pick myself up. It's the total sense of helplessness that is so hard - I know you will all relate to that

Art hang in there. I think it's rarer to go to blast than not (does that make grammatical sense even?) and the main thing is they are developing!! One day at a time remember. My scan isn't until tomorrow but I will let you know how it goes unless I'm sobbing into my steering wheel as its rubbish news

Banging headache today. Probably due to hormones but trying to ignore it. That's not really working though, so thinking about moving on to actual painkillers .

We've told a couple of friends, who have been ok but in a "thinking of you" kind of way. They have their babies and don't understand. My sister is my rock as she's been there before. No other family know. Thank god.

Mrsd ? this sounds warped but i?m not sure i mind being pitied. I have one friend who i told about my hsg and op and her response is always ?well it?s great prep for childbirth? and ?try giving birth and then you?ll know what pain is? etc etc. She didn?t get it and i think i would have preferred a recognition or understanding that it?s also tough going through infertility. What I do hate though is knowing that others discuss us with their friends and family. So you go to an event and you know that these people who aren?t your friends know about our situation. I do feel that we are a source of gossip and that just makes me feel like a failure. If i?m being honest i think i have used my m/c as a kind of defence against feeling like a failure. People are more likely to feel sorry for you than they are if you just can?t conceive so if people ask i always say ?well i did get pregnant?...it?s like an excuse for my infertility. Sorry if that?s all non sensical.
Anyway i understand wanting to be private and not wanting to discuss things. It?s terribly personal. And one of my biggest problems is i?m going to have to tell my CEO of my company that i?m doing ivf> i just cannot bear the thought of basically announcing i want a baby. it also tells them you?re trying, you want materntity leave, your priority is wanting kids etc etc. I just wish i could turn round one day and announce it all like a normal couple, ?i?m pregnant, i?ll be leaving in 5 months on maternity leave so suck on that?

Art ? i thought it was rare to go to blastocyst stage. It certainly points to that on the ivf docs i was given. Day 2-3 is perfectly acceptable and was always the normal way for ivf before blasto was introduced recently. I know blasto is the ideal but you still have a perfectly good chance having ET tomorrow. And it?s great they are still going. It sounds like you will get some frozen ones??
i was told off by the andrologists for giving Roy vitamins. I give him a pre-conception tablet and then extra zinc. But extra zinc can do damage. So apparently always discuss with someone about what vits used. I think it depends on the cause of bad dna as to what you do. Antibiotics definitely help lots of people. Laptops on the balls are terrible for dna so avoid that but i?m not sure what else helps.

Nelly ? sorry about your headache. Good luck at your scan tomorrow.

Just had my post op meeting with the consultant and that was fine. She is referring me to UCH for ivf. I get one round and one FET which i am immensely grateful for. Oh and Ivf definitely won?t speed up menopause (i asked about that old chestnut) ? ivf can only happen because our bodies do most the work for us apparently. And when they extract all those eggs, you aren?t wasting precious eggs. She did explain it but i can?t!

Hi everyone

sar so sorry that you had a wobble last night. I hate the thought of you being wakeful and sad. I wish I'd checked MN in the evening as at 2am your time I was still up and would have been available for handholding! Now, the uncomfortable tummy thing - didn't you have an unusual cycle this time? Could the bloating have something to do with being post ovulation - how many dpo are you? You've had a truly shit time of it but I can't help but think you will get there in the end. As mrsd said, the IVF odds are that you will get there eventually - it's just a long and crappy road. You have a plan, with this op coming up, and things can only get better from this low.

art I agree with the others - I think day 3 transfer is more common - and lots of women get pregnant from it. I do think you can't overestimate how much the chemicals and hormones racing around your body are probably affecting you right now. I know it's hard to remember while in the middle of it all. You just have to hang in there. This is incredibly tough and you are coping with the stress of it fantastically. Happy birthday for tomorrow, and MrA is right, if it works it will be an amazing birthday present. Must be a good sign, surely?

madness you make quilts? You are my hero, I love quilts - we have a gorgeous one that MrC's uncle's exwife (complicated I know) made us for our wedding, and it's one of my prized possessions because it isn't just beautiful, but handmade. I also have a quilt my mum made me when I was a little girl, somewhere, which is much simpler, but which I also treasure. You are a brave woman to be making them for other people's babies but your baby, when it arrives, is going to be a lucky little chick indeed!

joy interesting about your meeting with the consultant. I know what you mean about work - I am very indiscreet (what Americans call an 'oversharer' and my colleagues (apart from my boss) know about my TTC woes. It should be pretty obvious, as I left a job which was bizarre hours for my current more settled 9-5 one, in a 'lateral' career move (ie not for a payrise) right around the age when women usually think about children.

nelly so sorry about the awful headache - I am sure it is hormonal. I have had some shockers this year and I feel your pain. Is there an IVF approved painkiller you can take?

gin I am thinking of you during this wait - hope you're ok. Sending positive thoughts to the gin twins!

mrsd I have shared my infertility woes with a lot of people but I am the kind of person who yaks about personal stuff. I've only once regretted it, with a person who I didn't know that well who then brought it up in front of other people that I'd just met. But I really think it's a personal thing, IYSWIM. I think joy's advice of not telling people about IVF is a good one, although I have already boobed in that regard.

beryl good luck for tomorrow's blood test.

kitty wow, I remember you from the winter, when I was a lurker - great that you are so close now!

euro very interesting about the DNA fragmentation thing. I love the shark bait story - when do you head off for your hols?

On the job thing - I was told recently by a colleague that my boss's boss was eyeing my job and whether it was necessary. My work insurance will pay for IVF, something that's fairly unusual here, and also pays for MrC's health insurance as he is freelance. It also provides better maternity benefits than many other employers here (although it's not as good as a British employer). Oh well, I'm sure it will all work out eventually, one way or another. One step at a time, there are only so many things I can worry about!

I have just lost a massive post. I don't know whether it is just our PC but when trying to post the virus software is asking about giving permission to the MN site to submit our PayPal details. Just wanted you to be aware, prob nothing.

artemis I must admit that isn't my idea of a birthday treat but that said MrA is right that it could turn into the best birthday ever. I will be thinking of you and Happy Birthday!

rabbit I am sorry that you were feeling rubbish. CD1 is a hard day! I too had a tumblewomb day yesterday. I got my pre-period headache and just felt so sad. It's not that I was sad about the lack of BFP just anxious that each failure is making me more certain that there must be something wrong. I guess that I am just so bloody fed up.

sarlat I am sorry that you too are down. I totally understand the wanting to wallow in people's sympathy. I feel like shouting at my landlord how they have jeopardised my IVF treatment [nutjob smiley]
Anyway I hope that you feel better and have a better nights sleep tonight.

kitty it is lovely to hear from you. My goodness how time flies. Will you let us know what variety of baby the stork brings you?

euro that research is interesting though makes me pissed of yet again at how little testing is actually done on the NHS. I wonder why they can't at least subsidise these kinds of tests the way they do the AMH.

MrsD The telling people thing is a dilemma. I wish I had told nobody largely because of mother dear making it her business to inform EVERYONE. My sister was, until recently a great source of support, but I get the feeling lately that she is fed up of it and I ought to 'be over it'. Being told that I am stressing too much over small things really pissed me off actually...I should have asked what small things exactly but was just too shocked.

joycep When will your treatment start? Is it NHS? I am so glad that you asked the question about IVF hurtling you further towards the menopause and egg depletion. I was wondering that myself!

gin how are you doing? It must be such a tortuous wait. It is good though that MrG is there to distract you.

Well as I mentioned up-post my period is a definite and I am feeling really peed off about it. I think that secretly I had hoped for a surprise BFP to take the sting out of all the other shit going on! It has only just hit me that we will be homeless the week after Christmas and that the run up to Christmas will be a pretty horrific time to house hunt. I am also a bit bemused as to how my family expect me to host Christmas with all this going on????!!!!

Waves to Critter, Nelly ,Doll, Madness, Lemons. BTW where are you lemons ?

Oh big post planned but it's not going to happen. There where a bunch of things in yesterday's posts I wanted to talk about but I can't remember off the top of my head now. Gin a wig, Dave says. Oh really? I have a bunch of questions for Dave, for a start when did the CIA stop bothering about encrypted phone lines and start using Skpye to talk about 'top secret missions'? The Beirut stuff has been a lot of fun watching, I'm kind of amazed how bad it is. The street where they tried to get the bad guys, is very close to where I live, though not a ye old worlde Arabe souq complete with stone houses and dudes in turbans, more 1970s buildings with folk drinking StarBucks and popping in to Mothercare.

nelly sorry about your head, take some painkillers if you need them. I've had a horrid cold all week. Great timing. I'm all set for the EC tomorrow, Ken will get the meeting moved, he just didn't think the timing through. Nobody knows we are doing this but he has the advantage of being the big boss at his work place so he can just boss someone to change it for him. joy I'm glad your meeting went well, and sorry for all the other people I've missed over the page. Thanks for the DNA stuff euro i see that the link on that page says they, the test inventors, advise a jump to ICSI with poor results from this test.

artemis loving that you have a dude with a string of onions around his neck speaking the devils tongue living in your home. Wishing you a very happy and lucky birthday ET. I'm looking forward to writing up a EC report (like what you did). Just because Hezbollah are running my cycle doesn't mean I should miss out on the fun, right?

X- post pout I think lemon went on holiday. It does seem a while back though.

They expect you to host Christmas pout ? You poor thing.

Critter hols are in just a couple of weeks - I cannot wait!

pout that is an awful lot going on at once. Can someone else host Xmas? Or can you all go out for lunch at least?

doll I am very much looking forward to the Hezbollah EC report. Maybe they will wrap each swimmer in a mini dishdash and then post a video on the internet in which they hold the egg hostage?

Art is ousnds like the embies are doing well. Don't be downhearted!

Nelly I think paracetemol is fine if you need something, but ibruprofen can delay ovulation so is probably not ideal in the circs!

Thanks all for the reassurance on the embies. I have wasted too much time googling today but found plenty of success stories with less than perfect embryos which made me feel a bit better. It seems that embryo grading is an inexact science - as with sperm, looking at an embryo down a microscope doesn't tell you much about the quality. A few weeks back I was panicking that we wouldn't get any at all so i should just shut up about it

Pout you are supposed to host your family for Christmas? Seriously? Tell them to bugger off! Or ask them which flavour Findus Crispy Pancakes they fancy. That should do it. Christmas is only a 'small thing', after all

Joycep I know what you mean about the mc and sympathy factor. It seems an mc is a recognised reason for sympathy whereas infertility is just something you should take in your stride. I don't understand people's lack of empathy. I probably should do by now, but I don't.

Critter thanks for reminding me that I am pumped full of fake hormones. I had forgotten . I hope things are OK with your job - that's an anxiety you really don't need. Employers really know how to put the boot in don't they!

Nelly the consultant told me that paracetamol is OK but to avoid aspirin and ibuprofen. Though I can't tell you why!

Akuaba if only Mr A was spouting philosophy at me... but no, the resemblance begins and ends with booze. Can't blame him. That's what I'll be doing if this thing doesn't work out. CIA down your street? blimey, that sounds like more excitement than strictly necessary. Though I'm guessing it wasn't like in the movies with Daniel Craig free-running over your rooftops (shame).

I should try to make some headway with my report. Concentration is shot today, just for a change. And make it to the polling booth... I haven't the faintest idea what this police & crime commissioner bobbins is all about & candidate statements just seem to contain the usual meaningless electioneering waffle but feel the need to do my democratic duty anyway

euro flippant is my middle name, we have Homeland for vastly inaccurate but all contributions welcome

Well I was just coming on to thank Doll for persuading me to take the drugs. Hurrah, headache gone. Though I took ibuprofen so should perhaps have read Euros post first . Still only one 200mg and paracetamol rarely touches the sides so chances are I'd still have had the dead ache. Headache even . My clinic told me ibuprofen was fine, but I think they really on clinical studies. Which is fair enough but I guess we know studies aren't always complete. My acu mentioned by the way that post ET it is very important to chill out and do very little. As did my hypno. I have argued with both that the hobbles won't clean out their own stables and that enforced relaxation isn't my thing. But thought I would mention as there was some earlier chat on it. Unless that was on a different thread . Anyway apparently there is "proof" that it makes a difference.

I have decided that if we do this again (which I think I will if it doesn't work) I won't do the woo as the cost and stress of getting to appointments is rather counter productive.

Sar lovely how are you feeling. I proffer Nigellas breakfast bars into the tent, which are lovely if not as soul restoring as chocolate brownies. But they are all I have for now. Talking of which (sort of), MrN bought me grapetise and poured it into a wine glass the other night but did at least warn me in advance so I wasn't disappointed. Anyway others have posted wise words and the uncertainty is always so hard to deal with.

Good luck for tomorrow Doll.

Critter your UK trip sounded fun. I may have to ask you to be a post office for me as I've seen a bracelet I like on a US website. For the wedding, you see . Would that be too cheeky??!

Gin how are you doing? Keeping everything crossed for you.

Pout sorry for all the woes and no consolation BFP. I do wonder sometimes what I did wrong to deserve infertility. But I remind myself, as we've talked about on here, at least we have our lovely when they aren't being total twunts men and are therefore in the game. Other times like possibly earlier today I burst into tears because it JUST WON'T STOP RAINING . Definitely not hormones.

Where is Teu hiding?

Oh forgot to say hello to Kitty, can't believe you are about to pop. And Beryl so far so good. Haven't seen MissMedusa for a while, is she taking a MN break?

Rabbit how are you today?

Who else have I missed. Can you tell I'm WFH and avoiding any actual work. Phone post though so sorry for inevitable screw ups .

art this time last year Hezbollah broke the CIA spy ring in Beirut in a Pizza Hut following messages they had tracked arranging the meeting place, naturally the CIA code work for the meet was 'pizza' I shit you not.

I took an ibuprofen today no other painkillers in the flat. Well, now I know to avoid. Oops.

Sorry nelly I have heard ibuprofen it not a great match to TTC but seriously I didn't think with a body hijacked with all this shit it would make any difference.

Cross post Art. Aaah why can't we all get the same story on something as simple as painkillers. It's not rocket science. Just, you know, regular science.

Also I should fess up MrN and I had sex on Sunday and Monday. Day 1 and 2. Someone better tell me why that's bad? I had wine on Friday and Monday too. Oh dear.

Good news though that Googling has for once reassured you. The EEVA I mentioned before is I think meant to help with Embryo selection. Essentially they watch it develop over time rather than just once a day through a microscope, which apparently means they can tell if it is behaving normally, and apparently improves success rates. The cynic in me says that they will tell me they are all duff. Like the AMH-I-wish-I'd-never-had, I don't think I want to know. However I will ask about it tomorrow if there are any follies to count.

Doll am disappointed Homeland is inaccurate. . Are you managing to enjoy it despite that?

I knew TTC and ibuprofen weren't a great match generally, but didn't think it would impact me at follie growing stage. Who knows though . Still done now and I feel better for it.

nelly I'd be delighted to be a post office for you! PM me and we can swap addresses so that we get the bracelet over to you in time for the big day. Grapetise sounds lovely - that's sweet of Mr N even if it isn't as good as the real thing!

euro dishdash, what a fun word to say I googled it and apparently in Oman it's 'dishdasha', which is also satisfying. It's as good as 'haberdashery'!

art I think it is just that, that embryo grading is not an exact science and there is an element of mystery and chance in which ones take. Hang in there, you're managing all this really well. And good luck for tomorrow! I have everything crossed for you.

doll I would love to go to Beirut. I had the best haircut of my life from a Lebanese hairdresser - a fabulous Scrappy Coco type figure, if you've ever seen the terrible Adam Sandler movie 'You don't mess with the Zohan' - totally stupid but very funny if like me you have a 10 year old boy's sense of humour - and I kind of imagine it as being like an 'edgy' Italy, .

pout you are hosting Christmas? In awe. How incredibly stressful about your living situation. I really hope it works out.

Also waving to lemon, hope you are ok - and to buzzy, how's it going?

I'm bloody loving it nelly me and telly are good friends. Nothing you have done is bad, in my opinion and I hear you on the woo appointment stress, I remember we talked on that before, I've done none of it due to the stress of keeping the appointments. But then I've had a bit of coffee and wine too and honestly feel fine about it even though I would not have thought I would before I started. I don't think there is one right way to do this. I also hear you on the normal physically exertion of life after ET. Do I sedate the 15 kg 3 year old?

I wouldn't worry about the ibuprofen Nelly and Doll. I think Doll you're probably right in that there is so much other shit in our systems, the ibuprofen doesn't stand a chance. I have to practically OD on paracetamol before it even touches the sides. I was told codeine is OK too, but look out for the blends that have caffeine in them, if you're avoiding caffeine that is. I've been having posh fizzy pop in wine glasses too. I just mistyped 'whine glasses'. That is nearer the mark

Doll sounds like the CIA deserve all they get!

nelly I can't see that having sex at this stage would make a blind bit of difference. I was hoping to become a sex beast, as suggested by Gin, but it didn't happen. I have just been a grumpy cow with a tender stomach . Poor Mr A. Good job he now has the booze.

Interested in the chilling out after ET. Chilling and doing nothing is not my thing either. I have booked the gym for tonight as I am feeling fat and sluggish but am assuming that after tomorrow I should avoid. Though on the being a twunt thing, Mr A has announced that on saturday he thinks we should go see his parents. FFS. Just what I need the day after my non-birthday and ET, an afternoon perched on the sofa surrounded by their grubby toddler grandchildren listening to the latest eye-watering tale of self-inflicted family woe. I may need to take 'chill and do nothing' literally this weekend

Oh god Critter, that Adam Sandler movie, it's awful

art I know it's dreadful - one person told me it's the only film they've ever walked out of, because it was so bad - but I have an irrational love of it... especially the part when he brushes his teeth with hummus.

artemis I would definitely chill and do nothing this weekend, I think it's safe to say that you are allowed a weekend off inlaw duty!

doll that story about the CIA boggles the mind.

Critter I think you share a sense of humour with Mr A. I remember practically begging him to turn Zohan off. I began to seriously doubt our relationship when he admitted that Happy Gilmore is one of his favourite films of all time. Yeah, that and the Texas Chainsaw Massacre...