TTC for 10+ months, part 10

[princesschick]

A very friendly and supportive thread for those taking way longer than they had ever expected to make a baby.

[GinSoaked]

Just popping in quickly... princess I should never have looked at the page 3 Fred! Made me soooo . Stupid men on there. And I bet they're all smug dads.

Thanks ladies for the comforting words about the ivf. I feel slightly better today but am sure I'll be a big weeping mess nearer the surgery. Compared to your ordeal rabbit, it was nothing!

Stick in there sar. The anxiety is one of the hardest things during treatment. I always like to have a plan for the next step, in case the current one doesn't work and I find that helps. Having said that, your embie sounded really strong. Did you have any bleeding after the transfer? Even people that do, still go on to get pregnant that cycle.

Does anyone coming to the meet up want some santogen father to be multivits? We have a spare unopened pot of them, now mr gin is on Proxeed.

[sarlat]

Thank you for all the hand holding and lovely comments.

Gin - you are right that the anxiety is the hardest. I crumbled again this morning - proper big sobs. . I think it's becuase I know that any symptoms I do or don't feel are genuine owing to this being a natural cycle.

Gin - yes I did find a small amount of pink spotting at the cervix yesterday after a BM. It didn't come as far down as knickers. This will have been 2 days after transfer. I'm not sure if it was there after the transfer as didn't check cervix until yesterday. So not sure if is there directly due to the transfer or not. How old does blood have to be to be brown? What I mean is, is pink spotting unlikely due to the transfer if found nearly 48 hours later?

Can spotting after transfer be a bad thing? I had brown discharge the day after the transfer last time which was more obvious and got a BFN.

Can you tell I am mentalling very badly today?

The idea of having a plan in place is a good one. But for me I fear they will say that is to whip my tubes out before proceding to the next embryo. .

I know it's too early to tell (about 8 dpo or 3 dpt) but I think part of the problem is that I got such strong symptoms so early when I did get pregnant 2.5 years a go that anything less than that feels like a bust.

Gin - I hope you continue to feel better about IVF. I know it is such a mixed bag of emotions.

Cos - thank you for the focusing tips. Will try to do this.

Hello to everyone and sorry for not properly name checking and such an indulgent post.

On a slightly lighter note, I have found a hotel for the London trip. And last night I dreamt about Rabbit and Joyce. We were meeting up in London as planned. Rabbit - you and I were walking down the street together in London as we have already met so arranged this. Then we arranged to meet Joyce just before we got there. I introduced you both to each other (weird considering I've never met Joyce). In my dream Rabbit - you looked as you do in real life (gorgous girl!) and Joyce in my dream you had a beautiful strawberry blonde short elfin crop hairstyle. I'm not sure how you look in real life but funnily enough that image of you in my dream is not how I actually imagine you in my mind which is more brown straight hair with lovely layers. Gosh I am getting madder all the time. Then in the dream the destination turned in to a training course . When we arrived we had cups of teas and we put them on our desk. The tutor was so angry with us for being late and having these drinks that she picked up our desk up and turned it upside down. It was such a weird dream!

[ArtemisTheHunter]

Morning everyone

Sar thank you for the stuff on behavioural changes. I hope you're feeling more positive today. Anxiety is natural but whatever happens you will be OK. I know you will get to be a mum. You are so lovely to everyone, there needs to be more people like you in the world

Gin I understand the IVF jitters. I'm frightened and we don't even have a date yet. I think I joined the thread after your last go so I missed the hospitalisation, what happened? Does forewarned mean forearmed this time?

Cosmos I'm liking the sound of non judgmental awareness. Another one for my self help list

Joycep I get the anxiety dreams too. I have a recurring one about the house getting broken into but recently i've been dreaming about the HSG

Princess I loved your articulate arguments on the P3 thread. I'm going to sign the petition. Those men were knobs.

Doll thanks for the caffeine info. The consultant didn't give a reference for the study he'd seen so I couldn't look it up. It's made me relax a bit - I know Mr A hasn't stopped drinking coffee but it would be good for him if he could cut down a bit anyway. Alcohol is another challenge entirely

Rum glad you're feeling healthy and positive and the woo is doing the trick!

Buzzy I reckon the clinic say things like that to protect themselves. They should use that information to find the right approach for you. I shall look into mindfulness. I also live in my head the whole time, not good at times of stress.

Critter I'm going to look into those guided meditations, thank you. At least the clinic are being cautious with drug doses. Fingers crossed the next dosage level works for you.

Lemon good news on having fun stuff planned. I'd forgotten how small things like fresh flowers can lift your mood.

Rabbit I'm with you in feeling mysteriously fooked. I can't get over the two-normal-blood-tests-so-you're-barren "diagnosis". I hope you get some energy back once term is under way, this time of year is rubbish.

Waves to Euro, Coco, Nelly, Ten, Mrsden, hope I haven't missed anyone.

I'm well and truly in the tent this morning, without even the energy to fling around any buns. CD34, spotting, no chance of being PG but still no ERTD . And people say such stupid things. Mr A had posted a comment on fb yesterday about the joys of listening to other people's kids crying, probably because the neighbour's kid had been screaming all night. My brother comes back with 'Why don't you have a couple of your own one day, then you'll know what it's really about'. Oh great - nag us to have kids with a subtle undercurrent of 'you don't know what life's about until you can breed'. Yes, why don't we just do that? I was early for a meeting and idly skimming through fb but that one stupid comment left me in tears in the car and floored me for the rest of the day. My brother can be a grade A twat sometimes often. I told him we were trying two years ago. Even if he'd forgotten that conversation, he knows how old I am. It's not hard to work out that at almost 39 'a couple of kids' is not exactly realistic. Of course it being on FB I couldn't respond without outing myself. I ranted at Mr A but his response was to say 'don't take it to heart' and then carry on with what he was doing. Last week Mr A proudly told me about a member of his staff who came into his office all upset and crying and a blow by blow account of how well he handled it, yet I'm not allowed to talk about this utterly shit situation because he can't deal with me being upset. i don't know what that says about our relationship but it doesn't feel good

I'm sorry for the me-rant. I have nowhere else to let it out. That stupid incident has made me realise I'm not actually coping very well with any of this. There have been some really helpful comments on here lately about guided meditation and mindfulness and small to medium to large changes so I'm going to check them out and see if I can help myself a bit better. I have also realised you ladies are my only source of support at the moment - you really are a lifeline, thank you all

[ArtemisTheHunter]

x-post Sar. I'm sorry about the mentalling. I don't know what to say . FWIW I think every pregnancy is different (heard too many tales from preg friends) so just because you had strong symptoms once doesn't mean that subsequent pregnancies will be the same. Hang in there. One piece of advice I always wish I could take is not to think ahead to what hasn't happened yet and stay in the here and now. Must practice that, I'm sure it helps. Hand-holding and hugs. and what a strange dream!

[rabbitonthemoon]

Oh sar hang in there. I think a little tiny bit of bleeding may well be cervical. My nurse is very strict about how fragile the surface of the cervix is and that it hates being touched - I've never touched mine since! I get pinky bleeding even after a smear. My latest strategy for ignoring spotting is wearing black knickers and not looking when I wipe. It worked quite well last month! I often dream of random 10 plus things. I sooo wish I could make the meet up. But I'm a season ticket holder and also in London a week later so it hasn't worked out for me this time. Maybe I will send a cardboard cut out head! Keep doing little nice things. No one can make you say yes to tube removal and after latest checks of them, this seems like insanity. It's just another try this time and I'm crossing everything that it works.

Oh I don't know gin. I had a catheter and that stung like hell when they took it out but I was v v lucky not to get any kind of urine infection. The operation was horrid but I think fanny probs are just hellish and very depressing. But I think you will be fine this time.

work time.

[rabbitonthemoon]

X post artemis big hug. That was a very careless comment from your brother. Mine does it sometimes mostly born from his own frustrations of being tired and frazzled with two toddlers and missing freedom. It does sting though. I think because it's not a choice I made but I'm made to feel I opted for the easy route. we need some September sunshine to lift the spirits. Facebook can be so cunty! I read one the other day about how someone's baby had given meaning to their life. It put me in a foul mood for hours!

[sarlat]

Artemis -thank you for your wise words. I shall try to stay in the here and now. And thank you for reminding me that every pregnancy is different.

I'm sooooo sorry for that FB comment and your brothers lact of tact. I agree, even if he had forgotten the 'converstion' then there is still no place for comments like those. It is very humiliating. It sounds like he spouted something in a reactionary way - maybe as a reaction to his own struggles with family life. But in any case, it was cruel. It's breaking my heart to think of you sobbing away in the car. .

You are right, there isn't anyone except us who truely understand the awful dilema that we are all in. That is why we all bare our soul on here. I'm sorry thet Mr's A's reaction was so dismissive. I know this is naff but if you ever read Jackie or Just 17 growing up, the agony aunt use to advise the girls who write in about a particular person's behaviors to show the printed letter in the magazine to that person as a way of conveying just how serious and upseting the situation is. Would it help Mr A to read some of your posts on here? Sorry if that is a crap idea.

Artemis - I'm sorry you feel that you aren't coping. I think when things get really really bad, the only way to shift the pain slightly is to face the demon straight in the eye. After that the only way is up. Would you consider Princess's idea of writing about a child free existance? Please don't be frightened by that - this is not a reflection of your future, it's simply about not allowing the fear and pain to have the upper hand any more. The ony other thing I could suggest to you is, is it time to tell your family about your struggles? Only you know the answer and only you know if that would make things better.

The London meet up is literally 'keeping me going'. I feel like I will be in a 100% safe enviorment even though I have never met most people who will be there. Isn't that a weird concept?

[princesschick]

Morning all,

sar sorry that you are still feeling scared and anxious. These are very normal feelings. I haven't been through IVF, so there's no way I can give you any sensible advice. Not to mention how meaningless it would seem. But I do know the feelings of needing, not just wanting to be a mum, and you are so close so it must seem really scary because you are on a knife edge at the moment. (sorry if that's sounds overly dramatic). As Artemis says, whatever happens you will be fine. You are strong. You are so positive and you give us all a good kick up the bum with a big positivity boot, so I hope we can help you out right back. Everything is looking in your favour - good embie, mayan massaged inards ready for an embie, new and positive doctor, great mindset, healthy body and mind. The odds are all in your favour. Wishing and hoping for you xxxx Great news that you found a hotel for the meet up. It will be lovely for you and DH to have a break too. Big hugs Sar, we're all rooting for you xxx

artemis and critter great that you have signed the petition!

artemis critter and gin yes those men were utter knobs (for want of a better word) and it was hard to try and fathom what they wanted to add to the debate besides tits are nice, I like tits, I want to see tits in Newspapers and podiums, I am man, I like tits. SIGH I think I waved the word libertarian under their noses, they googled and then said, "uh-huh-uh-huh (imagine chimp laugh) yeah that's what we are we're libertarians, that means that we want freedom of everything. That means we can keep strip clubs because it would be against libertarianism. Haha feminists you lose" They hadn't really thought that through as freedom of everything would lead to a very horrible society with lots of people being exploited. As you can see I'm still One of them came back this morning with, yes I agree that we should agree to disagree. I guess that's the difference between feminists and libertarians. WHAT? And then said they are like the north and south on a compass, meaning that east and west are right wing and left wing. WHAT? Hey-ho. And one of them has a daughter. So Ok Friday morning rant OVER.

Well, not quite....

artemis That 'you haven't lived until you've had a baby screaming all night' get's right on my tits. My mum has made comments along those lines, my friends with babies make those kind of comments, even a bloody estate agent gave me a lecture about that... I often think, you haven't lived until you've dealt with the possibility that you can't have kids and you have to immerse yourself in books to find the meaning of life without children in a quest to find yourself and find some sort of inner peace. And be tormented by the fact that you can have children and there is nothing wrong yet your body is choosing not to do this, so you are stuck in TTC limbo. Anyway, I've been woken through the night every night for most summers in Brighton by screaming sea gulls, tramps, drunks, crying horny cats and have had many a delirious day at work having not slept - does this count I wonder?

But do keep coming here for support. We need you too. You are very witty, sharp and bright and we need you too. We all know how you feel. I've had to do my brain stuff to cope because I was a wibbling, sniveling, looney mess. I think I may have hidden it a little on here because I didn't want anyone to know how bad I really was. Poor DH has to cope with a lot.

I totally don't need to do my anger exercises this morning (which I've named anger time out original - I had to stop an argument mid flow last night to say, I'm going to my office to do anger time out and I will return when I'm done because this will get out of hand otherwise - it worked a treat - I was tres impressed with myself)

Oh and I'm thinking more and more that my purpose in life is to explore my feminist side a bit more as well as the philosophy. Engaging in debate the past few days and getting stuck into reading has taken my mind right off TTC.

Gin I'm very sorry that you are on the pre-IVF roller-coaster at the moment. As I said to Sar, it must be an even more heightened TTC experience because you know that a good embie is going back in. I am glad that I can't see the embie each month and then a period because i think that would make me feel so much worse. I'm sure that we are making them but that they keep failing, hence the occasional brown snot and sometimes delayed periods that I got before the brown diet. I am really hopeful for your next round. Hope you have a nice weekend planned.

Cosmos I loved your mind flip technique. I am thinking that i may treat myself to some official Kabat-Zinn for my kindle so that I can keep myself busy at the PiLs. Pension revision (boo) and feminism and philosophy and mindfulness (yay) :)

Rabbit I think I felt a bit like that after the failed second brown diet cycle. I think I was so excited about not having tried for 5 months because of weird periods and brown diet abstinence and seeing all these positive things happening in my body that I really had built my expectations up for an instadiff. I have no expectations of this month at all and like you just feel as if this is it until they offer some other form of help next year. I feel neutral. I'm sorry you are so tired and hope that you too have a nice weekend planned.

Right, I seem to have angrily and manically abused my keyboard to get this all out, apologies for not name checking all of you. I do think about you all on a regular basis and wonder when the next BFP will be. You are all great. Even though I haven't met you all I know that I will remember each and everyone of you in years to come and the kind words and support you provided to get through this truly shit time. Ladies you are all amazing and inspiration and tenacious. Have a great Friday xxxx

A huge feminist tail shaking at all of you (sort of like a huge big peacock display) xxx

[akuabadoll]

Artemis I lost a post and in the mean time princess beat me to it with (as always) well chosen words. Princess I love the sea gulls, tramps and horny cats. I have always wanted to ask for someone's seat on public transport (like what pregnant ladies can) with "excuse me, could I take your seat, I have a terrible hangover". It's all self inflicted, right?

Artemis have a hug. People are twats. When your baby is here they will continue to be twats. When your baby is 3 months, some twat will have an older baby so you won't really know what it's about. When you have a one year old, some twat will have a two year old so you still won't know what it's about. Then some other twat will come along will more than one kid, so you really really won't know what it's about. To continue forever. You have my heartfelt sympathy for the current twattery in your life.

[princesschick]

Doll I'm actually laughing (sorry I don't do LOL) at your comment, excuse me, could I take your seat, I have a terrible hangover". It's all self inflicted, right perhaps the same for that end of the night wee, when all the pub loos are closed and you really need to go, find the nearest policeman and ask to wee in their hat?

[eurochick]

Buzzy I have to say I am a little cynical about a clinic that does a lot of DE work pushing DE over own egg IVF. After all, DE IVF is more expensive....

Critter I will be on the east coast and in your part of the world, I think! I have a bit of a hectic schedule, but if you would like to meet and our schedules can manage it, I would be very happy to meet another 10+er! I'll drop you a PM.

Lemons you are sounding very positive. That's great to hear.

Sarlat for you. I think I am 1dpo behind you, but with only half-hearted swi this cycle, I am feeling pretty relaxed. I second princess's wise words to you.

Artemis I'm sorry to hear that your brother made such a thoughtless comment. Can you send him a message and tell him what you told us so that there is no repeat of it?

I had a happy story at the hairdresser's last night. I was talking to my hairdresser about how my scalp has gone madly dry again. It has been like that for about 20 years, excepting August last year to a couple of months ago. I was speculating that I had had the good period because of lower stress at work over that time and taking Pregnacare (which I stopped a couple of months ago after the failed IVF). The hairdresser told me that she gets really bad ezcema and the only thing that sorts it out is acupuncture. I had acu from last spring to this spring, so maybe it was that and not the vits or stress that stopped my dry scalp? Anyway, she then mentioned that one of the other women at the hairdresser had been to see her for fertility stuff. She was 42 and had been trying for two years, had one treatment and is now 6 months pregnant! I have her name and am going to try her. If she can stop either the itchy scalp or give me a baby, that would be a result!

[MuddyWellyNelly]

Oh I wish I had time to post more as want to say so much to artemis and sar but flipping work and weddings and woo taking over my life. But I did want to say that the comment Art got from her brother is probably the thing that stresses me out more than any, both now and the thought of it in my child-free future. I hate hate hate the smug condescending smug disapproving smug pitying smug opinions that so many parents have. Did I say smug . How DARE people imply they and their life is better, more fun, more fulfilled, more worthy, than mine. God it makes me angry . Fuckers.

doll I laughed heartily at your Twat comments .

I have woo tonight. I haven't done my homework and feel I'm going to get very little out of it. Had a bit of a setback in positivity this week. Just thinking this isn't going to happen and feeling sad and hollow, but not very emotional about it.. Sort of like I don't care any more, except I know I really do.

Anyway this month we are trying preseed which is just as well as I appear to have, ahem, dried up. And my acu is hoping my CM will have improved .

Meh. Anyway back to work. Hugs and to everyone.

[Tenmonthsandcounting]

Afternoon I will be back later with a proper post but I just had o chip in on the twattish comments theme. Even my loveliest friends have started to suffer from this issue. This is MUCH worse than the 'smug married' affliction that some of them also suffer with - perhaps that is because it is no longer directed at me as am married. The smug parent affliction results in the uninvited children arriving at events they are not invited to, the contents of nappies being classed as a conversation topic o name a couple. Bloody infuriating idiots. Well done for not responding in fb! I think I would have and it would have been rude. Because lets face it who cares kids or no kids I don't want to be kept awake by yours!

Rant over. Hope you are all having a great Friday.

[buzzybee123]

coco I hope Ginger is feeling calmer today

sar I'm sorry for your melt down this morning, its such a crap time full of differieng emotions for you right now, i'm not sure how I will cope, I couldn't text back as I had to try and fix my stupid phone and ended up having to wipe everything clear, now I can't get my contacts back on

cosmos I'll have to try that technique thanks for sharing

gin if no one else wants to vits, I vcan make Mr B popthem, thanks

artemis sorry about DH and your brothers comments, honestly some people really don't think, but we have lots of nice treats in the tent to share, big hugs

well I had a massive meltdown last night, I don't think I have ever felt so low and upset in my life,certainly never cried like that before. I think the realisation that I won't have a bay hit me, then poor Mr B got upset which made me feel even worse than I did :(
Occ health can't help me, they advised me to take unpaid leave which is a bit difficult when Mr B is unemployed so I feel more stuck in my life than I did before which just upsets me as I feel damned if I do , damned if I don't, just want to give up, I don't think I can cope with much more :(

[Cosmos1]

Art I am quite stunned by your brother, and that is after being used to very self-centred behaviour from my own brother. Take heart that it's not the kind of comment you make when you're in a blissfully happy state of mind.

Joy thanks for the link to the book, I've just been reading, very interesting how so many writers say similar things from a different perspective.

Sar I don't know if this will help you but try to hang on to the thought that you can't possibly know yet so no point in guessing, you just have to wait. Easier said than done I know. And I loved the list of things to change, really helpful.

Rabbit, when I first read season ticket holder I was thinking trains. You don't mean the devils sport do you?! I imagine you as petite and pretty, not yelling from the terraces!

And yes funny how you start to picture people when you've never met them.

Princess, ooh pensions exams, you brave thing! I've been appreciating your life perspective tips lately.

Doll, gosh it could be underway very soon. I think it's one of those things best not thought about too much once you've decided to do it, just go for it - leap into it if you will. Why not?

Critter I'm sorry you've had the stress of small follies and thin lining. The drug doses do sound at the lowest end, and think you're right it's good they are being cautious. You sound like you're handling it well. Patience in this situation is the hardest thing.

Have probably missed loads out so sorry for that. Pout come back soon!

No massive news from me today, except I ordered another months worth of the Chinese herbs, from a French company, who send them from Luxembourg, and they arrived the very next day. Beat that royal mail. Am persevering as they at least taste nice, bit too early to see if theyre making a difference to my cycle. One of my closest friends is now updiffed. This is a D one, for non ttc reasons, but I am a bit worried about how it will change our friendship. It's not one of those friendships where I can avoid a few awkward situations and it won't matter. Any tips on how you've handled things with close friends and had it turn out well? My usual technique is to back off a bit but she's an important friend.

[Cosmos1]

Buzzy, maybe this is as bad as it gets, you know? Maybe we're past the worst part now.

[CritterPants]

buzzy I'm so sorry that you're feeling so low, and that you got so upset last night. It's just utterly miserable, and you have been doing brilliantly coping so far. But it's not the end of the line for you yet, I really, truly believe that it isn't. I think the negative email from the arse-covering clinic probably also really upset you. The buggers.

rabbit I'm so sorry that you're feeling like a trapped pigeon. As you say, next year you will be on to IVF (seems like you've had an awfully long wait) and that can only be promising. It's happening slowly, but you'll get there. And sorry that work is so exhausting. Perhaps you and MrRabbit could go out for a lovely long walk to a nice pub or something this weekend? Sounds like you could do with a relaxing time away from work stress. Homemade pizza is delicious. Do you have a pizza stone? I'm pondering whether to buy one.

rum I bet the poo juice was at least extremely healthy, if not appetising looking. Maybe you could garnish with a few kernels of sweetcorn, for the full effect, and give some to any annoying coven types of the sort poor artemis has had to deal with!

princess you are my hero with your feminist musings and psychology investigations. And I do think that being pushed to explore the meaning of life has, at least for me, been a good side effect of what is otherwise unrelenting shit. Most people have kids easily and that's their obvious raison d'etre. We've all had a crap time of it and had to think about what a life without them might be. Nothing like facing your darkest fears to make you (eventually) stronger and more compassionate.

euro I've PM'ed you, excited!

artemis I second doll's twat remarks. So sorry that you had to deal with that level of knobbery. I hate the thought of you crying in the car. And sorry about MrA. I would suggest that you just do get upset in front of him and let him deal with it. Don't try to protect him from it. He needs to see how badly this is hurting you. I know MrC sometimes doesn't realise how tough this has been because I put on a stoic front with him, and actually crying and yelling at him shows him what a big deal it is to me and forces him to actually think about me. I don't think it means your relationship is bad - just that men can sometimes want to cocoon themselves away from their partners' misery.

ten I agree, noone wants to be kept awake by other people's children!

doll just to reiterate how much I loved your 'people are twats' comments. So true.

nelly I'm so sorry about the mehness. It's great that you're continuing with the woo. I really think it's worth sticking with - I wish I'd kept up with my woo supplements and PCOS diet that I was trying out earlier in the summer. You're bound to be up and down, and that is ok. This is bloody hard, and you've been an absolute trouper.

cosmos loved your non-judgemental awareness suggestion.

Waves and a repeat of princess's massive feminist peacock tail feather fanned out display to all. I have a big work thing tonight that requires me to do a fair bit of public speaking and am mega nervous, so am going to bury my head in preparation for that so I don't look like a nervous blithering idiot in front of 100 odd strangers. It's good though, as it is taking my mind off things. Love and custard pies (I'm imagining the yummy Portuguese sort that you get in posh delis in London, drool) to those in the tent.

[princesschick]

A quick question to those who have had an HSG. Did you arrange via the Consultant's secretary, were you given a handout or any information and how far in advance can you book the appointment given that there is a minute window in which to have the procedure done? I have received a letter to see the consultant but no mention of the HSG... I think the registrar may have forgotten to give me some vital information

Buzzy so sorry. As Cosmos has said, perhaps this is the lowest point. Sorry you feel stuck. Big hugs

Critter you brave! I can't do public speaking. I'm all show behind my computer screen, good in small groups but a jibbering wreck over public speaking. Terrible blushing, which I can feel, which makes me feel more nervous.

Cosmos I like the idea of hand delivered (ok, ok not hand delivered but practically if they are that swift) herbs from Luxembourg. You sound like royalty :) I hope you brew and drink out of a delicate porcelain china cup (with saucer) with dainty white gloves on :) Pension book is so boring. I'm currently doing an exercise (ok, interrupted from exercise) about calculating total pension input measured against the annual allowance. Zzzzzzzz. Snore. Riveting. RE: coping with pregnant close friends. My bestfriend is now into her 4th month of being pregnant and I have found it very hard. Well at least to start with. She has been one of the key people in helping me cope with not having a baby and supporting me through 2 miscarriages. So her being pregnant was like a stab in the heart initially and I really weeped because I had my first MC before she had even met her DH. It was doubly hard because she was bleeding to start with and had to have an early scan at just over 5 weeks. I thought she was going to miscarry so felt desperately guilty about feeling jealous. I also felt protective and helpless and didn't want her to go through it. But then it felt unfair that her bleeding was ok and the times I've had bleeding were me losing the hope of a baby. I think this is all documented in part 8? or 7? of this thread. Anyway, sometime around June. It helped that I lost my phone at the same time and we spent a lot of time emailing big heart to heart emails - it started out - so how does Wed figure for water / peppermint tea - and then stuff just started pouring out. I basically told her that I didn't want her not to talk about being pregnant because I need to talk to her about my stuff. I didn't want her to feel guilty about being pregnant because I'm not and that I'm trying really hard to be non-jealous and that I'm super excited for her and at the prospect of being a sort of aunty. She was really grateful for my honesty. And it cleared the air. We see each other most weeks and it's easier seeing her than thinking about her situation IYSWIM? I haven't seen a scan, she hasn't pushed anything under my nose, she's super bright and a psychology teacher and she knows how I tick so she's very sensitive toward me even though she must be bursting with happiness and joy and wanting to show off her scan etc etc. I feel a bit like a 'difficult child' that has to be protected from the reality of all our pregnant friends and wrapped in cottonwool. But I love that she is so considerate of my feelings and is aware of where the line is with my coping. I did find it hard when she cancelled on me because she was terribly sick in the past couple of months but I just had to get on with it and not take it personally. I'm sure I've cancelled on her in the past for lots of reasons and it's not her fault she's throwing up! Our other close friend is going to have a baby 3 weeks after my bestfriend and it gets quite complicated because I was closer friends with the other girl years ago and she introduced me to said bestie. So I am a little bit envious that they are pregnant together, talking about baby stuff, meeting without me and will have maternity together. I found out that they go to pregnancy yoga together (it slipped out of bestie the other day and she looked so scared that I was going to cry, and then embarrassed, sort of like she has been cheating on me!!) but then I went to the cinema to see an art house flick with my other close friend on the same day and we can enjoy wine together. So I can't be jealous really. I'm also going to have a couple of spa breaks with the non-baby friend. I'm sure that my bestie is jealous that I can go off with her and drink and not be pregnant and pukey and have spare money to lavish on myself and not have to save up for crappy maternity leave. I think the key is to be really, really honest and to say, I'm finding it hard that you are pregnant because it's something that I want so, so, so, so much and sometimes it might be too hard for me to handle social stuff because it brings out some strange emotions in me and I don't want to burden anyone with them. Don't take it personally if I can't come and join in. Or if I need to leave early. I need your support and love you very much and I don't want you to feel awkward with me because I'm not pregnant and you are. I haven't sugar coated anything with my friend and still tell her about all my treatments and fears and early periods and dark days and well everything really and have left the door open for her to talk about her concerns. I hope that I'm not a burden to her? She is always pleased to see me and maybe I'm a break from pregnancy stuff and remind her how lucky she is in a non-awkward way. I can't hide my emotions, I have a very telling face and she knows me way too well to be suckered in to any bull shit - so I've had to swallow my pride and 'fess up about not coping very well and being jealous etc! But when I see her we just gossip about other stuff and friends and have a laugh. I even gave her my pregnancy bible because clearly I don't need it at the moment. Oh it's so tough. Sorry for the essay, I hope this is kind of helpful? Oh I forgot to mention that I have no idea how I'll cope when baby arrives. But I'm taking each step at a time and focusing on the present. Maybe I'll have good news by then, maybe I won't, maybe I'll be glad to see her and then hand her bundle of joy back and head off on a spa break or to the pub. Big hugs though xxxxxx

[Cosmos1]

Princess thank you so much for that, that is massively helpful, and a lot to think about. My other bestie seems to have an innate ability to know how I'm feeling and a,ways seems to get it right. This bestie however, god love her, is brilliant, but can come out with some right clangers at times, so I'm slightly more nervous, as I suspect she will be about upsetting me. The honesty thing is a very good suggestion. So hard to know how to handle the change in dynamics.

[MuddyWellyNelly]

Oh critter I've made those. Jamie O . You are lovely by the way. Just saying .

buzzy . You poor love. I think you might be at the point I hit just after my AMH. Uncontrollable sobbing. The darkest of days. It's horrendous. I shuddered when I read what the clinic said. But they don't know that. Of course age is against a few of us on here, but you can't say for certain your eggs are duff. Of course it's tougher for us, but not impossible. There's still hope. But you know what? Facing my darkest fear has made it easier. I'm beginning to realise the odds aren't in my favour here, and that it might not happen. And that doesn't feel as bad as the AMH result. I honestly think that was my low. That was my "you probably won't have children" moment. I've now come back up a bit, realised that also I might; but that now I've looked into those dark corners, they aren't so scary and unknown. I think the problem is there is no clear Stop here. Even if IVF fails, it's unlikely I'll stop having unprotected sex! Yet I know I'd not want to be consumed by TTC for ever more. So I figure if I can make my peace with childlessness now, then a BFP is a bonus, but otherwise, I won't feel that miserable ever again. It's a weird mix because at the same time the woo is all about positivity, but I'm taking it one cycle at a time. Does that make any sense? It does probably sound contradictory, ie I still keep the faith that I'll get pregnant, yet at the same time accept that if I don't, then that's ok too.

Ive no idea if that will resonate with you, but really wanted to re-iterate that it can only get better. However on a practical note, I am pretty sure your GP can refer you for counselling, could you push for that? You really sound like you and indeed MrB need some support. We are all here for you of course, but possibly you need something rather more personal.

You'll get through this. Whatever happens. Big luffs to you xxx

[Cosmos1]

And critter hats off to you for public speaking. I am a cross between Bridget jones and Kings Speech Bertie when it comes to having to do anything like that

[princesschick]

Cosmos luckily my baby-free friend is the clangy one. The other week when I was telling her that I was trying to make peace with the eventuality that I might not be able to have kids she said, "but you can always consider adoption..." sigh So I just looked her in the eye (in a non threatening way - she's a very close friend) and told her that I'm aware that's an option and may be considered but it doesn't help me to try and make peace with my situation because it's not what I want. On other occasions I've had to tell her I don't agree or how she has hurt my feelings. Often she'll come back and say, I thought about what you were saying and well that makes sense... I've found this thing out for you. Or sorry if I was insensitive, it wasn't meant to come across like that. I can't be cross at her because they are genuine slip ups and she's never malicious. But I have to go with brutal honesty everytime and then be really thankful is she has useful advice or nice words to offer. Yes, this is a tough game. Because it's not just about dealing with not having a baby yourself it involves navigating social situations, other peoples expectations, relationships with loads of people and being part of wider society. It's cosy on this thread because it's all TTC challenged together and we don't have to mingle with the wider world here. Safe and warm and understood :)

[buzzybee123]

nelly I already have counselling and I most certainly don't feel this is my lowest ebb. I have not come to terms with or feel comfortable with the fact I could be childless, I also don't want to stay on the nk cells after IVF if we are not officially trying, I will have to choose an end date and that will be it

[eurochick]

Good luck with the public speaking, Critter, and I look forward to meeting you Stateside!

I've started to come to terms with the idea that I might never be a mother, but oddly, Mr euro, who had to be given a long time to come round to the idea of trying, is in no way ready to give up.

[joycep]

I am sorry to see it has been a sad and crappy day for some of us. My battery is about to die so will post properly tomorrow. Thinking of you buzzy, lemon, Sarlat and Artemis and in fact everyone. Thank you to Doll for your hilarious twaterry self inflicted post . Hahah . Til tomorrow.