TTC for 10+ months, part 10

[princesschick]

A very friendly and supportive thread for those taking way longer than they had ever expected to make a baby.

Princess, that is very tragic. I'm so sorry for your friends family. Things like that do put everything in perspective. None of us know what's round the corner.

Pout, I understand why you're leaving the thread, but im selfishly sad that you won't be posting. Will you please come and update us when you get your bfp? I threw in the towel a long time ago. I don't really consider myself to be actively trying, instead we're just waiting for ivf to start.

Artemis, my dr said something similar about twins. He said the human body is designed to carry one baby and in their clinic the best outcome for them is a singleton pregnancy. It's the most likely to result in a healthy baby to take home.

The caffein talk is interesting. I drink two cups of tea a day. I suspect dh has quite a few strong coffees. I'd be pushing my luck if I asked him to give it up.

Sarlat, best of luck that you little sar is snuggling in.

Joycep, do you think your mum thinks infertility is catching too? I'm glad we haven't told our family, I know they'd come out wth similar. And that the whole world would know about it. I have been sleeping badly too. I keep having anxiety dreams, and ones where I'm left out if something r everyone is being mean to me. I wake up several times in the night.

I had a couple of days positivity but im back in the gloom tent. I cried myself to sleep again last night after readimg an emajl sent by pregnant friend where she said her life was so exciting right now. It got to me. I get jealous of people so easily now, but who knows what life has in store and just because ttc has been easy that doesn't mean everything will always be perfect for them. Jealousy is awful, I need to find ways to stop it. Any suggestions?

Hi to everyone I've missed, euro hope you're ok.

Princess thanks for clarifying the caffeine thing. I'm sure you did explain it, I was just being thick . I hate green tea too which is annoying as my acupuncturist recommended it in moderation. I have discovered rooibos which is naturally decaffeinated and if I try really hard I can pretend it tastes like proper tea.

mrsden I'm sorry you're back in the tent. I'm sure a polite chimp will be along soon to offer you cake but not rub it in your hair. Jealousy is a horrible but all too human emotion. The best advice I've been given was from an older relative who once told me that if I was going to envy somebody I had to envy the whole of what they had rather than just one part of it. So that means if I'm going to envy a friend of mine her work-free lifestyle with her beautiful little boy I've also got to want her boring idle husband and money worries as well. Does that make sense? It's not a fool proof strategy - we all know someone who seems to have everything! - but often I've found that by thinking in this way I discover I don't want what other people have quite so much after all . I'd be interested to hear how other people tackle the green eyed monster as it does get me by the throat from time to time.

That is a good way artemis, for example the pregnant friend that emailed me yesterday is rich, has a big and very lovely house and of course a baby on the way. But her dh is IMO a bit of an arrogant and I would hate to be married to him. I imagine he is high maintenance.

I can't bring myself to drink green tea either, something just not right about it.

Hello all!

I am very busy at the moment and struggling to keep up, let alone post! I've just spent my lunch hour catching up with the new thread! My, you ladies have been chatty over the past few days!

Akuba opinions seem to differ as to whether or not you should ttc in a cycle where you start downregging on day 21. I read up on it and talked about it with my acupuncturist and came to the conclusion that it was fine. But had I not had bad experiences with the Pill in the past, my clinic would have started that on day 1 of the cycle before IVF to ease me into downregging, so there would have been no chance to ttc.

I gave up caffeine for the first 6 months of this year, along with alcohol. It did nothing. I'm back on it now. Mmmm, espresso.

Reports seem to be mixed on dairy. There are some studies that suggest it helps fertility and women having IVF are recommended to drink full fat milk at some clinics. I've taken a bit of an interest in this as I am dairy intolerant, so aside from the odd bit of goats cheese, I don't have any.

I think one of you on this thread mentioned that you were booked into a Create Open Day? We are going to one on 13th Oct. Is that the same one?

pout I'm sad that you are leaving us, but I understand. Taking a bit of a step back from ttc after the IVF debacle in July, and then a bit more of a step back due to being daftly busy with work has made me considerably happier.

sarlat I'm glad the transfer went well. I'll have everything crossed for you.

princess I'm sorry to hear that you knew one of the shot police officers. That was such a dreadful crime.

MrsD I'm so sorry you feel so rough about all of this. I have found my life coach and the techniques he has given me for dealing with anger really helpful. One of the things he made me do was to type up what my childfree future would look like and to make a list of what scared me most about a childfree future. I'm also finding meditation incredibly helpful. I never thought I would meditate in a million years but it does help me to focus on the positive rather than negative and also to make small changes to make life more bearable. Not long til your IVF now. Which is really exciting. It could soon be the end of your TTC 'journey' and the start of a whole different 'journey' soon. Big hugs xxxx

Euro we were going to go to the Create open day on 13th. But have decided against it for now. Having had my head re-shuffled by the life therapist and the chimp book, what the registrar said on Monday about there not being any problems and our financial situation we've decided that after the HSG and karyoptyping tests in the next few weeks we don't want to see any doctors for another year, at which point we will look at the Create Fertility MOT and NHS IVF. My head is done in giving this all so much attention and we just want to have a normal year of seeing what happens and enjoying our new house next year. I will be interested to hear about what it's like though. And yes, it was an appalling crime and I was really shocked this morning. I never in a million years expected to see someone who I knew on the front of a national newspaper for those reasons. I cried when I read the article because she was killed so brutally. She was a really lovely person and had a brilliant family.

buzzy - op is the middle of next month. when the nurse saw that it was on my birthday she said ?well you are going to theatre at least?. I showed my best fake laugh. Have you been given any good suggestions about how you can reduce the impact of this having such a bad affect on your overall health? There is such a lack of understanding on how much this takes its toll.

sarlat - we are all routing for your little one to embed. Your positivity is an inspiration and I am sure the little embie will be feeling it too.

pout - very selfishly I really don?t want you to leave this thread but on the other hand I completely understand. One day I?m sure I will just snap and will have to try and move on. Anyway, please drop in once in a while and most certainly let us know when you get that elusive bfp. And of course we will always be here for you , if you need advice etc etc.

lemon - massive hug to you. You will come out the other side.

coco - it?s scary how many people our parents tell. I do try and shrug it off most the time but sometimes I feel mortified about who knows. I like to be in control of who I tell.

princess - i can?t believe you knew one of the policewomen killed. . Things like that certainly puts life in to perspective and I?m really sorry.

artemis - i think it?s sensible not to divulge things to the parents if you think they will natter about you to everyone. I didn?t actually think my parents were like that but I am surprised how my mother has happened by chance (yeah right) to find out about other people with fertility issues. Once she met someone in a shop who started discussing their fertility....really Mum, or were you advertising your daughter?s barreness?...My MiL was telling me about the funeral director?s daughter who has fertility issues...how do they get these conversations started?!!

Mrsd - i?m really sorry you are back in the black tent and it?s weird that we are having anxiety dreams {or probably not that weird all things considered}. I had yet another one last night. I wish I knew how to stop them. And Jealousy ? it?s such an unwelcome waste of energy. I think that artemis?s way of handling the green eyed monster is excellent. I think that?s what I unconsciously try to do. I do try and look at friends and think about the things I wouldn?t like about their life rather than the things I do like. But actually when friends use little words like ?exciting?, ?happy? and ?over the moon? when they describe their baby or their pregnancy ? i find it deeply upsetting because I am so far removed from feeling like that and I often take it personally and think people are rubbing my nose in it. I mean how dare they tell me they are over the moon that they are pregnant especially when they know what we are going through. I then try and process it and think, just because their life is exciting right now , it won?t be like that forever. That is an incredibly gloomy way of handling it but we don?t know what is around the corner and actually we never know what goes on behind closed doors. Life won?t always be exciting for your friend with her immensely arrogant husband even if her FB shop window says everything is glorious. My brother was trying to tell me that is inevitable that we go through challenges and bad experiences and I try to accept that as well and be thankful that I?m not going through an even worse experience. I also think it?s really important for us to try and stay busy if we can. Too much time on our hands , gives us too much time to think and to wallow and to be jealous of other people. It?s a bit of a catch22 as we know how the lows of ttc can zap every ounce of energy that?s why I try and force myself to do zumba or play tennis as you have no time to be jealous. I don?t actually think that answers your questions but sort of explains the way my weird brain tries to handle things. Oh and when Middy announces her pregnancy, I?ll just think at least my boobs aren?t on the internet being gawped at by several billion people . Who wants that life anyway?

euro - sounds like you are mega busy at the moment.

There is a free ebook on Amazon that you can download for the next few days. I have no idea how good or crap it is but it is called: Fertile Soul, Fertile Body: Finding Peace in the Midst of Infertility
www.amazon.co.uk/Fertile-Soul-Body-Infertility-ebook/dp/B009AURK36/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1348066137&sr=8-5

Thanks Joy I've downloaded to my kindle.

I'm also getting flamed on AIBU. Whoah, this is a whole new MN experience for me! Nest of pro-page 3 vipers. Apparently Mr Judgey Pants thinks I'm a judgey moral crusader! Ha

Back to the bun fight!

mrsd Charlie and Coco say come into the purple tent, we have lots of goodies to share

artemis I like your thinking on the jealousy thing, ha I have now twice this week climbed 9 flights of stairs to avoid a neighbour and her kids I look at it as forced exercises which can only be good for me

euro we are considering going to the Create open day on the 13th, haven't booked a spot yet

joyce sorry you did tell me the dates earlier, this is what happens when you become a dinosaur according to one of my delightful young physiotherapists I'm going to speak to the counsellor next week about how to try and deal with things, I have finally been referred to Occ Health and will ask them too, I do find the monkey book helpful too, I'm sure I would find it more uselful if I actually read it, many years ago when I was in counselling she talked about 'being mindful of the thinker' as I told her I lived in my head all the time, talking in my head etc, yes I really am that mad. I used to leave notes around the place saying 'being mindful of the thinker' to remind myself not to think in head so much, if that makes sense. I'm interested in what princess is doing, if I get any helpful tips I will let you know but I do find writing down how I feel helps a little.

critter I am booked to see GP on Monday :)

Well I filled in the online form for the place in Brno and they have emailed me back saying that my info will passed onto a doctor who will contact me to discuss my treatment :)

Just quick one -i find a bit of honey in green or rooibos tea makes them nicer

princess what did you post on AIBU???

Evening ladies!

artemis I never thought mr gin would give up booze for the ivf, but he's done it! I dragged him to several clinic open days at which they want on about how bad it is for sperms and that seemed to do the trick! Re the 1 vs 2 embryo transfer, I swore I'd only have 1 put back but then I read that there's a higher live birth rate if you have 2, so I went for that.

princess so sorry about your friend. It's so tragic and I can't imagine how her fiancé must feel. One of my best mates is a copper and I do worry about her, esp during the riots. Btw what's AIBU?? Do they like page 3?!

Sorry to hear you are back in the tent mrsd. During my darkest moments, I try to remind myself that people only have their kids at home for 18 years (and the teenage years don't really count!) Then they may well bugger off to the other side of the world/see you twice a year/be murderers! I do wonder how my full time mum friends will cope when the little darlings leave home...

euro and buzzy my top tip for create open day is to get there early. You get 5 mins with the consultant at the end and she sees you in the order you arrived. We were late and waited ages...

Thanks for the link joy. I'll download tonight. I agree that keeping busy is a good diversion. You are v zen re k middy. There was some programme on channel 5 last night called 'Will and Kate, baby fever'. Just the title made me want to stab people!

Someone mentioned dairy in relation to ivf? I read in an ivf book that they only recommend you drink it to ensure you are getting enough protein. My clinic just told me to up my protein intake.

Waves to sar and little sar bean.

Joyce- mind boggling what people come out with! I haven't told a soul about us ttc for this very reason, my family gossip like no other and with the details I know about other peoples reproductive systems and marriages I would stand a chance at anonymity.

Lemon- I am sorry that you are feeling low, I can't understand what it feels like but as the others say you shouldn't beat yourself up for still feeling like this you need to grieve and give yourself time

Coco- it sounds like your doctor is proactive and helpful which is good. I am curious what are aching boobs a sign of, I get them em everymonth and it certainly hasn't meant I am preggers yet.

Princess- I was so shocked to hear the news yesterday about those two officers, I think everyone needs to understand the risky position that officers put themselves in everyday just doing their job.

Critter - keeping up with the karahidans is banned in our house (but I also get to veto most sport viewing in return!) but I am not sure money would be enough of a motivation to go through all the tests etc on international tv! God poor thing sounds hideous. Hope you haven't had anymore injection mishaps

Mrsden I am sorry about the tears and doom feeling. It is rubbish.

Sar- the transfer doesn't aoudad pleasant but you must be so excited, fingers crossed for you!

Artemis- your way of dealing with the green eyed monster is similar to mine. I tend to think that things happen for a reason and even though I may be jealous of something that someone has/ is when I look at the whole of their life it is not that perfect.

In other news I succumbed to a moment of madness and poas this morning I am not due for two days, only dtd 3 times and have been as drunk as you like a lot this month so there is just no way it will happen but for some reason I can't help myself! I have resolved not to test until cd40 from now on, which will never happen as I have never had a cycle that long before. I am putting down the sticks and walking away.

Have a nice evening all x

Hi all,
Just wanted to post quickly to say sorry to see pout go from 'poster' to 'lurker'; you have made me laugh out loud many times with your funny and insightful observations on ttc (and life). Totally understand your feelings though. IMO it is still comforting to lurk here and drop in occasionally (albeit often sticking my foot in it from not reading thoroughly ) Really hope some happier times are just around the corner.

princess shocking to hear the news about your friend. It's tragic and horribly unfair.

Sorry that so many of us on here are in the tent of doom. It's so bloody draining. I think of you all lots and would be far happier to have good news on here than my RL instadiff friends (I know that's bad but it's true).

Will join in the cheering on of sars little bean!

Love to all xxx

princess just read your posts

Btw, this month we had IUI and did nothing else! Not one shag. ALL MONTH. That is so bad, isn't it? Mr F doing 15hour days, day in and day out. If by some miracle I did get preggo I'd always know that I didn't even see its father on the day of conception. Oh the lows and lows of ttc!

princess I'm so sorry about your friend. Heard about it on the news last night and that you knew her really hits it home. My cousin is a copper so my heart always skips a beat when I here of policemen getting hurt because I think it might be him.

mrsden I'm sorry you're feeling down again. There is no cure for jealousy but I did get a reality check from my friend yesterday. I was bitching about work and ttc woes and she said I needed to look at the good things I have. That I can go home and cuddle my OH and enjoy weekends with him walking in the Surrey hills. She is single and in love with a guy she can't have. She reminded me I should count my blessings and hope for the best rather than focusing on the stuff I don't have.
I'm not if that helps but the way she said it made me smile and stop crying

Not sure why I feel the need to share this but the brown snot is not the same as normal, more like early AF style spotting mixed with ewcm. It very ick. Hope it stops soon. The Dr didn't say what would happen next. Just that we'll have a follow up talk once bt's for cd21 and cd2 are done.

Train at station... catch you all later

coco I have had this brown snot in the past, its not nice.

frannie when will you know :), we had IUI I think both of us were quite relieved, only had sex once that month

Buzzy, I'm 8 dpo and getting the usual grumblings and twinges that I always do. Hope you're feeling a bit better today xx

frannie I usually know by 8dpo, I have a real change in mood, but hopefully thats not the case for you. How many IUI's are you planning?? I feel ok at the moment, haven't ovulated this month so no great mood change

buzzy Sorry for your totally crappy cycle. Been so sad to read your posts lately. Re IUI: I don't really know. There doesn't seem to be much of a plan. Told different things by different nurses. Apparently they review after 3 (this is my 3rd lot with scans but 2nd with actual insemination) so they may wait til 3 proper goes or until ive had 6. Although one nurse admitted after 3 'was like flogging a dead horse' as no male factor. I was told I only have a 4% chance of au naturel, so will be straight to ivf referral. No mention of clomid, injectibles or any suggestion of superov. Feel very much like a number and not a person in my clinic.

Quick post before sleeeep.
Ginger has been throwing custard pies at the walls. I've been in a real grump since I got home and getting stroppy with MrC for no good reason. He's just got a confused look now, while he's trying to figure out what he did wrong. Think it's hormones kicking in bugger...

ten the sore boobs was cause I was pg. When I said I was pissed off with wasting money on hpt, because I have no clue when af is due, the Dr asked if I'd had any pg symptoms before the mc that might give me a clue for next time. The sore boobs was the main difference from every other month for me. They hurt a lot! Felt like they were going to burst. But not till I was 6/7 weeks I think.

Coco - brown snot is not helpful. It's hard to know what this may be. It could be a sign of ovulation or even implantation but it also could be horomones doing their thing. I guess your situation is especially frustrating as you can't even get on with testing when you want to. Really feel for you but am I right in thinking that your GP sounds supportive?

Frannie - hello. Hope you are feeling OK about moving on to IVF?

Mrs Den - I know what you mean about jealousy. I have NEVER been a jealous person and find that kind of behaviour distasteful but when it comes to TTC it's hard not to be. However, I like Artemis's and Joyce's wise advice. What good strategies and how true that many of these preggo's are with guys that are rude, arrogant and generally a bit twatty .

Buzzy - are you feeling a little better? Good luck with the appointments.

Euro - so glad to hear that you are feeing better for being busy. Distraction and focus on other things is very healthy. We are much more than TTC beings.

Ten - sorry for the BFN. I totally understand that drive to test. It's soooo powerful. It will be your turn one day.

Thank you again for all the cheers for Sar-Bean! I am still doing ok and enjoying time off work and being all lazy. . Got some shooting pains in the womb last night which was exciting. But I have had other months with this symptom too so not going to get ahead of myself. But for now, I am still trying to remain positive. .

There have been some discussions on here about struggling to get motivated to do other things and having no head space for anything but TTC issues and the sadness this brings. I am so sorry to hear this. It is a lonely, lonely place to be. I have some strategies which are based on some of my clinical work. I'm sure Buzzy will know about thesee too......

Ok, so when we are asking people to change their behaviours to improve their quality of life, it is a big ask because these behaviours are deeply ingrained and motivation levels are at their lowest. The idea is to remind yourself that a 'new you' is emerging - but suddenly 'deciding' to do this simply beacuse you know you should isn't going to be enough. So we need to change small things in our environment to remind us of our new selves and where we are going. These changes then influence behaviours.

Ideas for small changes for those who are deeply ingrained in old ways.....e.g.

• wear watch on other wrist
• drink tea out of china tea cup
• sit in different chair
• have 10 mins in the garden each morning
• put fresh flowers in the house

Medium size changes e.g.

• Thursday night is movie might
• Discover a new meal / recipe once per week
• Plan outfits for the week
• Wear your best earings / bracelet / necklace everyday
• Keep a journal of thoughts / feelings / daily occurances
• Plan and book next holiday
• Buy new items of clothing/shoes/accessories which is NOT your usual syle

Bigger changes e.g.

• look for a new job / career direction (doesn't have to be big, e.g. volunteer for new duty at work)
• plan and attend new hobby
• plan holiday options for 2 years time
• redecorate a room in your house / buy (within budget) new furniture
• throw a dinner party

etc etc.

Remember the above strategies are not really important in them selves, it's about creating twists and turns in your life to give you renewed self belief and creative thinking. As I say, these are stratgies we use at work and I am not trying to preach, but these ideas might help someone. DH and I are working at the medium level at the moment and do feel slightly better for it. Ok, me and mad crazy thoughts are leaving now.

Wow sar you are a font of knowledge. Your words really helped me this morning. Thank you.

sar I agree with coco! What great ideas. I'm really intrigued to find out what you do - hopefully we'll find out at the meet up!

coco my hormones are making me tres grumpy too. It's rubbish. Must control the duchess.

frannie fx for this iui. Interesting that they reckon 3 goes is what it should take.

ten sorry about the negative pee stick.

I'm currently getting the ivf dreads. I don't mind the hormones etc, but it's the surgery I'm dreading. As I nearly ended up in A&E last time, it's made me horribly aware that things can go wrong. They also can't do anything to prevent what happened to me happening again, unless they dont take the eggs from that side. Sorry, I don't want to put anyone else off! I'm an unusual case. And I know it's hormones making it all seem much worse, but I don't wanna do it

Oh gin I'm not surprised you are worried, like anyone really wants to deal with this crap. And when something has gone wrong before is makes it even more difficult. I can see why you would have gone for 2 last time, I remember the same conversation with Cosmos. It's a tough one when you get down to it, despite the 'one is best' thinking (which on the whole I support). Thanks for your observations and link Artemis.

I have done some thinking and poking around the Internet on the embryo transfer issue and I have a plan. The most recent study (and with a large sample group) was February 2012 as far as I can tell the summary is here:

www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(11)61267-1/fulltext
The summary of the summary is 'under 40, one embryo, over 40, two. Three, never' now as I'm 40 I'm only thinking about that part. My doctor likes the idea of more than 2 in the over 40 age group. My plan is tell him I plan to follow the recommendations of this study unless he can convince me that it's wrong.

Anyway, I dont know if I will get that far yet as he has not responded to my questions on TTC in the cycle before and protocol choice. Thanks euro for your comments on the former, you recall what you found online? I didn't find anything on this issue. I guess I didn't look hard enough. I guess it's hardly the biggest issue in the world considering not being pregnant is something I'm damn good at.

Several of you have commented how fast this is, potentially, coming up for me. It's true, honestly I could be starting next week rather than next month from the perpective of the clinic. It's a bit 'strike while the iron is hot' and each cycle counts at my age It does mean that the Dolls will not be in perfect shape re the caffeine and booze but pretty good. I've done a lot of reading on this too. There was a recent Danish study on caffeine and IVF outcome that found a connection at over 5 cups of coffee a day, neither of us have ever come close to that. I'm rubbish at water drinking but forcing myself, do drink a lot of rooibos though. We eat super well, so that's a plus, I guess. sar you have given some sound advice on preparing bodies for IVF, I think now my perpective, for my case, is the best possible is good enough even if it's not perfect.

sar also I like your IVF as 'another route to try' that's how I look at it. Something on the list of things to do, not the 'last chance'.

joy the relatives, ha yes they do have a habit of involving themselves in crazy ways. My parents know we want another child but not more than that, I just can't face it, it's too much for them and me for them to know about the maybe IVF. This is actually the biggest difficulty regard preparing for IVF, we spend the week with them next week and I can't see how we will be avoiding wine, coffee is easy, we are always drinking 'weird hippy teas' but our families (both sides) and wine have a strong relationship.

Artemis your relative is spot on re the jealousy and whole package issue. I had a think about it I believe I do that although I wasn't completely aware of it. The green eyed monster appears in my life from time to time, but not much actually.

Critter I know the Kardshians well good luck for the scan today.

pout I do look forward to you dropping in, keep well. X

lemon how are you today?

And happy waves to all, princess frannie Coco buzzy ten Mrsden mellow medusa ..... X