TTC for 10+ months, part 10

[princesschick]

A very friendly and supportive thread for those taking way longer than they had ever expected to make a baby.

Hi ladies. I'm looking for a bit of virtual hand holding, as I'm freaking out a bit about the ivf cycle.. We have the treatment consultation appointment this afternoon and I just don't want to go! I feel that this cycle has very little chance of working and that we're just going through the motions so we can then get on and use donor sperm (with iui). I know that that it may work etc etc, but after what happened last time with us only having 2 embryos left by day 3, I feel our chances are very much reduced.

I don't know where this wobble is coming from, as last time I just wanted to get on with it! I guess the fact that I nearly ended up in A&E isn't helping either. Mr Gin is no help, as he just says it's up to me what we do. I think it's all tied up with his guilt about it being 'his' fault.

I know I need to give his sperms one last chance to do their thing but am just feeling so bloody negative about the whole process! Humph.

Gin - here is my hand! I am holding your hand very very tightly. At this point emotions take over and logical thinking goes out the window. It is human nature to think the worst to protect yourself. Ok, your chances are not guarenteed - but they are there!! Otherwise they wouldn't let you cycle. Those chances could turn in to something amazing.

And if this cycle doesn't work out it will be ok becuase you and DH will know you did everything you could to exhaust other options first beforee moving on to donor sperm. So this is a win win situation. Whatever the outcome, you will be able to move forward and reach your goal.

I am sorry, I know it's all so hard. I am not doing great myself at the moment and the fear has set in. But take a deep breath, go to that appointment with an open heart and mind. Do what needs to be done and see what this brings. It is a journey and a half, I know. I can understand your fears about going to hospital again but I would imagine you will be monitored within an inch of your life this time. And do tell the Dr's, put the ball back in thier court. What will they do to minimse needing hospital treatment?

Good luck and super big hugs - let us know how it goes. Will be thinking of you.

Gin would waiting a month or two help do you think? I really wasn't ready when I tried IVF. It takes a big toll on your body, so I think you need to be in a good place mentally to deal with it.

But thinking positively, it sounds like what happened to you last time was just a freak accident. I know loads of people who have had IVF in real life and even more on t'interweb and I have never come across anyone else who that happened to. So the chances of lightening striking twice are very slim.

I'm feeling a bit better today. AF is finally easing off a bit, and I had an appointment with a new woo lady before work this morning. She was recommended by my hairdresser who sees her for eczema but who also helped one of her colleagues get pregnant at 42. And it turned out, she does a clinic just up the road from me. I liked her. So I'm off the meds and back on the woo, at least until Xmas.

octomum /critter - what a result with the gonal f. I am sorry it has to be cancelled but I hope you take some positivity from the fact that your follies can grow with a bit of prodding. I like your mum?s idea and it seems sensible. Have you decided to do this?

Artemis ? I definitely will give up alcohol when i do ivf because like you I don?t want to give myself some excuse to torture myself. I?ve been pretty good over the last few years. I can?t even remember my last hangover.

Sarlat ? how are you doing after the weekend?

Gin ? i can?t believe you will be on to your next round of ivf so soon. Hopefully this experience will be totally different to your last experience.

Buzzy ? i am not sure anyone can be particularly ready for ivf but i think it is important to be as emotionally fit as you possibly can before start

Euro ? sorry about AF. It?s amazing how we all keep track of how many cycles we have been trying.

Frannie ? that?s one of the most annoying side effects of drugs ? the bloating and putting on weight. I?m sorry people have mistaken you for being pregnant. that is doubly cruel but one day all this will pay off.

I had a baby and kiddy weekend. Found out about 3 pregnancies. [wonderful news, keep smiling]. I visited a new born. Spent w/e with BiL and kids who were jumping around the place from 5am. Cute when they are being cute but monsters when they don?t get their own way. It was good to witness close up the bad parts as well as the lovely parts of parenting. MrJoy and I left and wondered whether we really wanted kids . Then we had a christening followed by a lunch with lots of little kids and babies. Felt totally fine until friend?s mum who is a vicar cornered me and said she had heard what was going on with me and asked me what my plan was. She started pushing my buttons, telling me it must be awful when everyone was having kids (as she was bouncing her cute baby granddaughter in my face). I felt myself welling up and i had to make my excuses and left promptly. All in all, I made a huge effort to really absorb and imagine the idea of having children...in the sheer hope that my body somehow needs positive affirmations.

Also visited a new acupuncturist who was wonderful. She is much better than the one i have been seeing. She actually has seen a lot of people with a similar story to mine, i.e pregnant quickly, m/c , shortened cycles and can?t get pregnant again. She says they respond well to treatment. I?m not kidding myself and I do believe that I need ivf but I love the Eastern way of looking at things. What she was saying about stagnation and weak spleen rings so true. I?m so cold, slow pulse, low blood pressure, I?m a walking corpse. I could actually start feeling the circulation going round my body after the needles went in. When i was lying there she asked me whether i was afraid i wouldn?t have a child. No one has asked me that before but that basically gets to the crux of it and she put her hand on my head and just said I had too much going on up there, i think too much and said all that should be in my womb area. She is right. It didn?t feel woo ? it just felt like a different way of looking at things. I?m now popping 8 herbal pills a day. Yuk.

But on the western med front, BiL and SiL told me all sorts of positive stories about the people they know who have had ivf. all of their 5 friends who have done ivf have got there. One friend has had 7 rounds in 14 months and is now 20 wks. She is 47yrs old. Not sure i could do that but if you keep chipping away , the pendulum has to swing our way after a while.

Gin ? so sorry, xpost ? i agree with euro that i am sure it is highly unlikely that lightening will strike twice. This has obviously and quite expectedly put the fear in to you. The negativity is a by product of the whole situation and is a self protection thing as well but I think you should go along today and discuss your fears with them and try to get some reassurance from them. Of course having 2 embryos left is rather soul destroying after retrieving many more but 2 is 2 and this next time could well produce the golden embryo. It?s so difficult and we are all here to help you. Have you asked yourself whether you would regret not trying again? Or is it more you want to try again but more fear the worry of the same happening again?

Sarlat ? i?m sorry you are not in a great place at the moment. The fear is truly awful and terribly difficult to control.

gin sorry you are so worried about things, big hand hold for later today.

sar big hugs, it is th e fear that can almost bring you to a stand still

medusa thinking of you

joyce well done you, sorry about the nosey woman who should have minded her own business, at 47 and so many rounds, how do these people afford it, still if you get what you want in the end the cost doesn't matter

Well I'm again not coping, feeling totally irrational and can't face this baby IVF shit anymore, I'm a bit tired of some peoples suggestions (not on this thread mind) but they make it all sound so easy. I feel if I leave it till i'm feeling 'happier' in myself it will too late to do it. Had a massive meltdown yesderday, poor Mr B took the brunt of it, not the best way to start our third year of marriage

I really feel I just cann not cope on a day to day basis, it all meakes me so sad

stupid computer, also i'm cd30 and got a positive opk, does this mean that I am now going to have to wait at least another 2 weeks for af?????

hello everyone. lemon, sarlat, I am sorry you are having a particularly difficult time and to everyone who is struggling.

Today I went in to the clinic to get checked after first IUI 16 days ago. Got the call this afternoon that HCG value was negative. Therefore, no pregnancy this time. Strangely I wan't that surprised or upset as I had all my AF symptons yesterday and sure enough CD1 has started in the last couple of hours. I have 3-4 more IUI tries apparently before moving on to IVF. So maybe it'll happen in the next year or so. I am however trying to enjoy every day and be happy with what I've got, a lovely husband and a fun job and a family and friends that love me. Despite this, I'm not quite able to face the child-free life possibility at the moment.

Gin, we can hold each others hands. We have our appointment at the clinic today too. We should get the genetic results back too and thats making me nervous. I also understand what you mean about the ivf jitters, I've waited so long and now it's close I'm worrying it's not the right thing to do. I think you should try once more with mr gins sperm so that you know you gave it every chance. For what it's worth I did read somewhere that each cycle can be very different sp just because the outcome wasn't good last time that doesn't mean anything for this cycle.

Joy, 3 announcements is a lot for anyone, well done on coping so well with the. Nosy vicar. I don't think I could cope with a christening, we've been invited to one but I've just sent apologies and made a lame excuse up.

Mum rang last night and told me my cousin is pregnant. She's 44 and was on my safely assume wont be pregnant list. I am happy for her because she had a pretty awful marriage, got divorced and then only met her new partner last year. But that means it can't have taken her that long to get pregnant even thou she's 44. I suppose it shows that age isn't always a problem.

Now, I've finished work early today because I need to prepare for the clinic. What is the deal with hair these day? Shall I immacc it all off, or go for the light trim?

Oh, I'm so sorry miss m. I'm blathering on and totally forget to acknowledge your loss. I really am so devastated for you, this is all so hard and shitty. I hope you're doing ok in the circumstances.

joycep - jeez - that woman sounds really insensitive. well done you for not continuing the conversation.

Miss M - so sorry about your news. Take good care of yourself.

mrs den - hair. I was thinking that before my clinic visit today then decided they probably don't give a shit so neither will I. If you have a tidy up, do it for you.

Buzzy - i am sorry your cycles seem to be messed. When do you normally get AF? Is this month you haven't been on anything? sorry to hear you are not coping. Its so difficult to know what to do or to say as we all deal with everything in different ways. I go in to a hole and sort of reemerge after a while. We know getting pregnant will cure us but I don't know what cures the emotional hell that comes with not getting pregnant. Is there someone you can talk it through with?

Freedom - sorry IuI didn't work. That's good you have a few more to do so hopefully the others will work.

Mrsd - good luck later. I am sure it will be fine. So now you have all your results when does ivf start? The hair dilemma yes what should we do?

I've gone for a neat trim. I know the gynae wont care but this whole infertility thing makes me feel so abnormal, that I want to be "normal" in every way I can. Judging by what I see at the swimming pool, it's quite normal to leave it au natural. I'll report back if the gynae reacts in horror to my neat trim.

I'm hoping well get a start date today for ivf although I suspect there might be a whole other raft of tests to do before we can start.

I'm sorry af turned up freedom. Buzzy, I thi k we all have days when we feel like we can't cope. I was saying to dh yesterday that I can't concentrate on anything else.

missm I am so, so sorry about your mc. Be kind to yourself and allow yourself time to grieve the loss.

gin sorry that you are feeling anxious about the appointment. I can imagine that it would be very stressful. But they wouldn't encourage you to give it another try with MrG's sperm if they didn't think it might work.

sar I am thinking of you and your posts about IVF have been really helpful to me - thank you. Especially what you said about your fears about it and going into it with an open heart. I hope you are ok - you are an inspiration.

lemon are you ok?

mrsd sorry about the jitters. Let us know how the appointment goes. The trim sounds like a safe option!

buzzy so sorry that you are feeling so sad. Big hug to you. It's shit.

joy That woman sounds dreadful. What a spiteful thing to do - I bet subconsciously she was trying to get a reaction. I wonder what is going on in her life that she needs to try to needle other people's pain. Your acupuncturist sounds amazing. I too am back on the woo, spent the weekend reading Emma Cannon's book about Chinese medicine and have self diagnosed as 'damp' 'cold' and 'stagnant' .

rabbit yippee for the golden egg!

euro sorry about AF but the lie-in sounds great.

I have been swinging wildly between wanting to get on with IVF asap, and grieving for the fact that I have never been able to 'try' naturally because my periods never came back after quitting the pill. I cried a lot over the weekend, probably hormone-induced, but also I think because this all became more real - that my children would probably be conceived in a lab rather than in bed - and that the only other option is to wait for four months, feeling sad, not drinking booze or caffeine or eating dairy, hoping for a 'natural' period that may never arrive. I stressed about leftover embryos and terrified myself by reading anecdotal stuff online about IVF children being more likely to have learning disabilities - although I did also see my former landlady's IVF newborn, who was perfect and gorgeous, and a very good advert for going through the crap we have to go through. My poor landlady down-regged for 6 weeks!

I am supposed to be going back to the UK in the middle of November for a long weekend and am wondering whether I should cancel if it might interfere with IVFing, if I do go down that route this spring. I'm also meant to be going back for Christmas and taking a trip in January, so if I did postpone things I'd be looking at February 2013. I haven't decided what to do but my consultation with the doc isn't til next Monday so I have a week to think about things.

Sorry for the and rambly post. I should be feeling more positive! I am at least trying to meditate and visualise myself ovulating. Waves and tail feather perks to all. I will cheer up shortly, I promise!

Hi ladies, thanks so much for the support. As usual, you all said exactly the right thing and helped hugely. Sar your words were so lovely and spot on, thank you, euro, you're totally right about such complications being rare and joy your questions were thought provoking, as I'm not really sure what I was so scared about!

The scan went well - everything appears to be back to normal. The fibroids are still not in the endometrion and my AFC is the same as it was 7 months agp, phew. He also took a 3-d pic of my womb, which looked wierd to me, but which he said was a nice triangle shape!

On your suggestions, I did quiz him further about the bleeding. He said that when you have lots of follies, the small blood vessels increase and this is what they caught last time. Apparently they do make sure they don't catch the major ones, so it was just a small one. He said they'll be careful next time and apply pressure for longer. It may or may not happen again. I am feeling a bit better and reassured, but guess it's a bit like if you have a minor car accident, it makes you more aware that it can happen again.Anyway, we'll be starting around the 24th, eek.

mrsd I hope that you appointment went well today. You have been so patient with everything. I agree with you that one more go with Mr Gin's sperm is a good idea and I know I just need to get on with it - any more dithering and I'll not do it! at the hair debate - I had a bit of a trim myself this morning! The idea of them having to part my forests to get the camera in make my feel a bit ill. Do let us know how your appt goes.

Sar Are you still off work? I totally understand the fear, but you do have frozen embies left, which is a brilliant position to be in. Your words above were so lovely and helpful. Thank you so much.

Freedom sorry to hear that the iui didn't work this time.

Joy your weekend would have sent me nuts! Well done for managing. I couldn't have dealt with all the reminders of lack of baybees, followed by interrogation.

buzzy I think we are allowed the odd meltdown and it does sometime help to let it all our. The Create open day may well help you make up your mind about the ivf, esp after your chat with the consultant. Could the ov test have been picking up the pre-af hormone surge? I quite often get ewcm just before my period starts.

critter sounds like a tough weekend for you too. I wouldn't recommend travelling during IVF, as you don't know when they may need to scan/blood test you. One of the reasons I want to get on with this cycle, is so we don't have to have xmas like preggos, unless I am actually pregnant. It's hard enough, without having to act like a preggo during the xmas booze-fest. It does sound like you need to give youself some time to get used to the idea of IVF (she says, just having had a massive wobble, after 7 months of waiting).

I'm feeling a bit sore after dildo cam. It was quite a thorough one, as they were measuring all types of things... Right I'd better get on. Once again, thanks so much for the hand holding. You are a wonderful bunch.

There is a lot of stress and anxiety on here at the moment.

Critter - you are sweet to say I am an inspiration. I feel far from it today but thank you. I can relate to your anxities about children being conceived in a lab. I think in time, those feelings do normalise if you do go through IVF and it no longer feels strange. But it is a grief process which you need to acknowledge. If anything, IVF mothers tend to be in awe of their IVF babies as they must be such amazing human beings to have come through the process. The thing about learning dissabilities and illness with IVF babies is also a bit of a red herring. You can find some stats which point to this but this is because there are some people who have IVF that might have a predisposition to these things and had IVF not been around those babies wouldn't have been born ifyswim. The IVF process in itself doesn't cause illness and dissability. And it doesn't matter what problems people come with, you can't identify which babies will have problems - just like normal conception. And don't forget that the stats are still minimal and to be honset they are scrutanising IVF babies far more then they do any other population of babies (as in if you go looking for stuff you would find it). So I wouldn't worry about those things. I think you have a tough choice to make about going straight to IVF or waiting for the return of your period. Could you do a pros and cons list of each. I guess if time is on your side then the diet thing could be worth a shot. But I suppose you would have to feel that route had a good chance of working. It is so difficult, try to let your inner wisdom tell you what to do. Sorry, sounded like an old woo lady there.

Buzzy - I guess you will get your period in 2 weeks time. But on the plus side, there is no time like the present for SWI! But sorry that you are feeling down. Bitesize chunks. Focus on your CREATE open night. This may give you renewed enthusiasm.

Free -really sorry you had a negative test - it is a pretty horrible feeling I know. However you sound like you have a positive attitude to life in general - can you throw a bit of it over here.

Euro - it's great to find a new woo person, this will life your spirits. Fingers crossed for some good luck cycles between now and christmas.

Mrs Den - good luck for your appointment - will be thinking of you and waiting to see how it goes.

Joyce - I am VERY impressed with your positive attitude over the weekend and the fact that you chose to embrace all those mother-baby occasions. However, when you take a bold step forward and change your behaviours this is when you will ALWAYS get tested. That vicor lady didn't mean any harm but she put her own nosey need for information above your need to manage things how you want to. That is rude and disrespectful. But I honestly do think you were being tested. Doing all those things took courage and the easiest thing to do now would be to swear yourself off these events ever again. But you will benefit from going forward so keep trying and keep embracing other peoples families as it will help to lift some of your own pain. On another note, the new reflexologist sounds great. It is really exciting and reasuring when you can talk to someone who 'gets' your particular situation and has seen it all before. I think we would all like to feel like we have a common complaint which has been seen a million times before. I think thats why many of us feel so lonely. No bugger else seems to struggle the way we do. Keep going Joyce, keep going.

Lemons and Medusa - are you both ok? Lemons if you have a minute please could you advise me about the pros and cons of changing jobs especialy when it means more responsability in the middle of TTC crap.

Rabbit - how is you?

Princess - hope the house move went ok, miss you and your mad party dress chimp.

I do feel awful today, basically just feeling sorry for myself. . Fliping heck, how many cups of teas can a person make for them self in one day? . Still I am back at work tomorrow which will be good for me. I don't think I am depressed and know I have reserves and strategies to get me through the next bit but today for the first time in my life, I caught a glimpse of how it must feel to be truely deeply depressed. That awful, energy sapping, fatiguing, deep anxiety, teary-nauseaness and hopelessness rolled in to one - truely awful. But I will keep fighting the good fight. I just don't know if women of my age with perfect blastocysts keep having failed implantation like I seem to - from what I have been reading, they don't. They get sucess first go or soon after usually. Waaaagh. Also, just found out my review appointment will probably be with one of the registrars and not my consultant who I trust. Arrogant alert coming up - the registrars at my clinic don't seem to have the expertese to discuss the deeper things and the bigger picture stuff and I can't see me being able to argue the fact that I think I might have a misdiagnosis about the hydro. And no chance about immunes. They seem to follow protocol and that is it whilst spouting out unhelpful and frightening worst case scenario comments. Ah well, not a lot I can do.

Joyce - woops you have a new acupuncturinst, not reflexologist - sorry.

sarlat are you back at work??? neither one of us are on the mood, we've both had another good cry, he feels hopeless as he cannot really help me out, I made a list of my fears, doesn't make me feel better, I've already had another meltdown.

gin glad it went well, I'm having constant meltdowns, not just the odd tears but howling for ages and face so puffy I can barely recognise myself, I never thought I could hurt so much inside. My temp is the same and I have had constant ewcm for over 3 weeks. I just wish AF would show up

critter the more I learn the less I wish I knew about it all, I worry about not having enough embryos to start with, but it must be hard to know that your baby was made in a petri dish but it will be the baby you both so wanted and who knows number 2 might be the good old fashioned way :)

gin I am so relieved that the scan went so well. And how cool to see your uterus in 3D! I'm imagining you all in the examination room with plastic blue and red specs on. That is really promising though, and it sounds as though you are going into this next round in the best possible shape. That's exciting that you're starting so soon. Will you be taking birth control pills first, before down-regging with jabs? Or just going straight to the injections?

sar is there any way that you can change the appointment to the consultant? Call and make a fuss, squeaky wheel gets the grease and all that? Maybe tell them that you would 'feel more comfortable' discussing it with Mr Consultant than the registrar as he knows your case, and having been through two rounds of IVF, you'd prefer to talk to someone who knows your history inside out? It can't hurt to ask. I'm sorry that you're still feeling terrible. For what it's worth I think you are handling this brilliantly.

Thanks for your incredibly thoughtful advice, a pros and cons list is a very good idea. And thank you for the reassurance on the IVF baby developmental front. What a lovely way to think about it, that the children are even more miraculous because of the long journey they have taken to be on earth. Right now I'm leaning towards just going for it with the IVF this autumn and cancelling my short trip home in November (which will disappoint my family, but still). Like you, I'm 32 (33 in December), so I am lucky in that I do have some time to make these decisions, but I'm just so sick of waiting, and my parents are getting older - something I'm sure everyone feels on this board. My mum thinks I should wait, and my dad thinks I should carpe diem and just go for it (when I was fretting about the choosing embryos stuff, he said on Skype last night that as he's nearly 70, he's realised how much chance and randomness plays into life). And the woo diet thing, while I am going to try it and it might work, sounds kind of miserable, and I don't know how much more misery I can manage. I'll get advice from the doc and see what he says. I have a week to think about it.

xpost buzz I am so sorry that you're having such an awful time and shedding so many tears. and . You have the appointment coming up and you've been taking loads of positive steps towards getting your baby.

Hi all,
Sorry, I am somewhere between a lurker and a poster at the mo!
gin I just wanted to say that, like everyone I want to hold out my hand to you. I know you had a shitty time in hospital and after last time but I'm sure, as others have said, that won't happen again. They also now are aware of what happened so they'll keep an eye on you. Im glad all seemed well today and you have a lovely triangular womble!
sar you're so right about the IVF baby/ disability thing IMO. I know lots of children who are the products of IVF (not in personal life but through work) and what you say totally fits my experience. Also their parents are often more concerned/on hyper alert because of the precautions given.
I too think you are being a marvel (sounds a bit Blyton but is v fitting!). I'm sorry you're feeling rubbish today but I am very and in awe about how pragmatic you are and how you are so reassuring. Hope work is a welcome distraction tomorrow, but make sure you cut yourself some slack! . Bugger about the registrars. Can you keep that appointment but insist on seeing the consultant if they are not helpful? I think you're well within your rights says the person way too scared to ask to speak to my 'consultant'
joycep 3 preggo announcements. WTF! Well done you for even emerging from the house. That is a victory. Then followed by the busybody questioning. You deserve a ruddy medal. Glad the acu lady seems good. I know you were sceptical before as your previous wasn't great. Can I ask what the difference in treatment was? Was it more her as a person or what she did with the needles that helped the energy flow? I'm in the process of changing mine, so it's interesting to read the difference the practitioner can make. euro same goes, if she sorts your excema and gets you updiffed I shall be doing a round trip to London once a week myself!
critter your response to injectibles is fantastic news. I totally get what your saying about this not being how you dreamt of conceiving your child. I swing massively between feeling like that and then being amazed by and the science of it all.
mrsden do whatever gives you the least itchy regrowth . You have been so patient with your tests etc. they sure are thorough there! Hope you get to move a (big) step closer.
freedom sorry about the IUI. Are you having stimulated or natural?
buzzy sorry your time isn't get any easier. Have you had late ov before? Sorry if I should have read this but have you had a positive opk earlier this month. Could you have laid 2?
Hope lemons and missm are both holding up ok. Have been thinking about you both lots. I know that seems bonkers, as I don't know you in RL. But am really hoping you are both coping and that you're being looked after.
Replying to some previous questions (about a week ago!) 4 % is based on age,pcos, lack of any prev preg and time trying. I'm in a real low at mo. feel terrible when I see how brave my nephew is. I'm so selfish but I can't pull myself out and am not able to see the wood for the trees. I don't know what to do anymore. I can't imagine being able to resurface.

critter having the appointment doesn't make much difference, I had so many over the last year. I don't think IVF will work and we only get one shot at it, I think I'd be better off going to counselling to accept that I won't have a baby.

frannie I never ovulated this month to start with, my temps have been low and af is now late

Hello lovely 10+ers!

I came back to the desparately sad news of MissMedusa. I am so sorry. Take the time you need, write here if you want to, hide under a duvet is you want to, eat chocolate, wine and raw meat, if it helps a little. I am here if you want to message, feel free to do so, but no pressure. Big hugs.

Did I fail to mention that DH and I had a weekend away? It was lovely, we really enjoyed each other's company, and I felt genuinely happy for great stretches of it (and had a few little teary moments as well, but still). I feel like I am on the way to become myself again. It helps that my body seems to have left the MC behind - I suspect I might be ovulating... Thanks for all the lovely inquiries. Just to let you know, I have a busy week this week, with loads of after work stuff, as well. So I am not sure when I'll be popping in again.

Big hugs to buzzy, gin with her IVF doubts, sar you are inspiring indeed, octo-critter sorry the cycle got canceled, yay for new woo euro, good luck with your IUIs frannie - remember mine was 4th time lucky (for a week or three), hang in there, and stop the comparing of misery, it does not bring any joy, you are having a tough time too, and that is okay, sorry about the announcement and excessive children joycep and at nosy cow.

The rest of you will have to make do with generalised waves!