TTC for 10+ months, part 8

[eurochick]

A friendly, supportive thread for those taking a blooming long time to conceive!

Hi ladies, I'm sorry to read about lots of people in the doldrums. I've had some bad news at my appointment today but I will come on to that later. Just working my way through the back log of posts.

nelly - sorry to hear about yet another AF. I'm all for building a new house - I am sure it will be stressful but what a good way to take your mind off this malarky.

beryl - that's wonderful you have a new fur baby. I am desperate to have a dog and then I can at least focus some attention away from my fur baby husband.

lemon - in a way it must be nice to have a mother who understands the pain of not being able to conceive. I can quite imagine despairing all the time.
missmedusa - i also had this sneaky suspicion that we would struggle to get pregnant purely because I wanted it so badly and everything else seemed to be perfect. I have always been quite superstitious when things are going well as I'm always waiting for something to go wrong.

buzzy - sorry to hear about MiL troubles. I'm glad she has written a reply to you though. I have dreadful problems with MiL, it culminated in MrJ telling her we wouldn't see her if she didn't stop emotionally blackmailing us.

critter - that's annoying about no follie this month. I hope your body produces a surprise golden one whilst you are back in Blighty. The house in Scotland sounds amazing.

pout - i'm sorry to hear you are having such a horrible time on the clomid. Presumably you have nearly finished your dosage now and hopefully you will start to come out of the darkenss. Hormonal holes are hideous and i really feel for you going through this. When is your first scan? Stay away from This Morning tomorrow - i hate those kinds of things.

rabbit - your illness sounds vile , poor you . I am glad you seem to be coming out the other end. Yet more rotten luck for you. I think it's a healthy idea to just not think about things like clomid or ivf for the time being and to just see what happens au natural.

gin - it's impossible not to think about ttc. And after so long of trying and the last ivf, it's so easy to feel negative. Do you just feel you want to crack on now?

mrsd - that's a really good idea writing things down for MrD and it's lovely he responded well. Sorry to hear about the preggo colleague. It's a nightmare when people don't stop talking about it and the rubbing belly drives me bananas. A girl told me last year that she was pregnant at 9 weeks yet I guessed a minute before her as she was rubbing her flat stomach.

Rather horrified by the stories of the missing tampons on here. Wouldn't that give you toxic shock Syndrome?! I don't like tampons anymore - i find them uncomfortable, not that you need to know that but as we are sharing.

So my appointment. I wasn't quite prepared to be told that my AMH levels have fallen off a cliff. They were bordering on low 18 months ago at 17. I was told this was not good for my age. Well today they are just 3.8. I felt physically sick when she told me. I was preparing for them to have gone down but this is so close to 0 , I fear this is game over now. I'm a bit baffled as is the doctor as my FSH was 6.5 which isn't suggestive of someone going through the menopause. My follicle count was 6 on each ovary so that is 12 and so above the 7 they look for but still that is pretty low. I ovulate ok and my other hormones seem to be normal but the AMH is just extremely worrying. Premature Ovarian failure was mentioned to me 18 months ago after a high tech scan showed I was lacking follicles on one side so i wonder if this is what is happening.

The upshot is, I have been referred for a laparscopy and a hysteoscopy which will hopefully take place in the next 2 months. scared shitless about being put to sleep and if that is all clear I will be referred to ivf. I get one round and one FET which I can't complain about.

I don't think i have any time to lose now but I can't understand how in 18 months it has got this much worse. By my calculations, I won't have an ovarian reserve in 12 months. In totally shock.

That must have been a nasty shock, joycep. At least they have given you a plan of action with a decent time frame. I am in a similar position with good FSH (well, it was a year ago when it was tested) but lowish AMH (12.something 6 months ago, aged 35). My mum started her menopause quite early, so I am probably following in her footsteps. I do wonder about how good a test AMH is. I've tried to find some studies on it on t'interweb, but not turned up much. there are plenty of heartwarming stories of people getting pg with very low (0.something) AMH levels though. As your AFC and FSH are both decent, try not to be too downhearted. You have a plan of action and funded IVF. You WILL have a baby.

A general is fine. It will be a light one for a short op and it will all be over in a flash for you.

joycep loves to you. These punches are so unkind. But I just was looking up amh as I've deliberately put my hands over my ears about it and mostly what I found was ladies with amh 0.something getting pregnant naturally, just after a longer time. I second everything euro said. You have eggs and a very good fsh for your age. When it comes down to it, you need one good egg. And that egg might take longer to be found, but it's in there. You will do this. I hear you aren't supposed to leave kisses on mums net cos that just wouldn't be cool. But sod that x

joy huge hugs, but euro and rabbit have said it better and more sensibly than I could. You have a plan, you will have a baby. You'll get through this - it's just that there are more hoops to jump through. You only need one good egg.

Joycep I don't know much about amh. I've never had mine tested. But I'm sure that lots of doctors are not even convinced of its relevance. Ivf clinics seem to be more bothered about fsh, for example people donating eggs have to have fsh below 8. Remember chantelle was told her amh was low and then she got pregnant. Your fsh is excellent. It sounds like the doctors have a plan for you, I know it's going to work out for you.

Joycep that's really tough to hear that. Doctors definately disagree to the importance of the AMH test. Mr S who I saw said it was 'an outdated test that everyone got very excited about 15 years ago but now its not viewed as as important as the FSH'. He said he would look for FSH below 8 and Estradiol below 200.

I have no idea what any of these tests are but feel for joy. Everyone seems to be offering good advice so I will jump on the wagon and send hugs to you

Oh joy, I'm so sorry and am sending you big sloppy kisses. Like others have said, I'm really not sure how important amh or fsh is. I've never had either tested despite having had ivf! And didn't you respond really well (too well) to the iui drugs? I would have thought that was indicative of good ovarian reserve/response. Do you get to talk to a proper consultant about your result? I've found the gps pretty useless - in one case assuring us we won't need ivf with mrgin's SA result, which was utter bollocks. Big luffs.

joycep big hugs I don't know much about AMH as have never been tested, silly question but is there a chance that it could be wrong?? Is there anyone else you could speak to about it

Ps don't have time to post properly, but pout when I did ivf they didn't care about my past medical history & the paperwork about being suitable to be parents consisted of us saying we weren't paedos and signing a form! I think they would be v impressed at the counselling, as most clinics suggest it alongside ivf. I would recommend trying to find someone who deals with infertility counselling, if you can. Our one free session was great and she totally got it and had useful and practical suggestions. I'm sure antidepressants would only be a problem if they were ones you can't take when pregnant. Big unmumsnetty hugs to you too. I can't even bear to think about a future with no kids in it..

Laughs at funny tampon stories - I love gross stories!!!

Joycep - you poor thing - horrible, horribe shock! Bleugh. But...........mine has never been tested - all they seem to be interested in at my clinic (and others) is FSH and number of follies. If they didn't test your AMH - you would feel perfectly smug about going forward with 12 follies and your other results. Your results are very similar to mine (actually a bit better) and as you know, good embryos weren't an issue with my recent cycle.

The operation will be dandy - I promise - the drugs will be fabulous.

Buzz - well done for tackling the MIL - I'm sure you have raised her awareness and I hope you get the support you deserve from now on.

Pout - the clomid sounds yuck - can the doseage be altered etc? Gosh, be kind to yourself and fingers crossed it results in a very happy ending.

Critter - sorry about the no follie month - will you do another cycle?

Rabbit -you have really really been through the mill. I suspect you body is screaming out enough, enough. Let things settle, (easier said than done I know) - your body is gearing up for better times.

Gin - I can really relate to your anxieties about the future. I do sometimes think what on earth am I working all these hours for, to pay for this mortgage to live in this area - if I'm not going to be a mum? It all messes with our concept of identitiy. Wishing you loads of luck for the next cycle. When are you doing it? I will be doing FET in September.

MrsD - where are all these preggy people popping from - is there a secret 'get preggy' island that no one has told us about? Hang in there - your time will come.

Nurse consultation went well. Scan seemed good and they are still happy for me to proceed with natural cycle FET. They want to replace an embryo the day after the LH surge. This suprised me as the embryo will be 5 days old so I thought the idea was to wait until 5 days past ovulation and then return it so the conditions were just right. I plan to quiz them again so they can prove / reassue me that this is the best way.

My other news is that I am going to try really really hard now to get my mojo back - like Princess. Last night my reflexologist had 'stern' words with me and said that in her opinion, "I had worked really hard, have done my research, made informed decisions and been open minded to new ideas - and now its time to leave the head space, trust what will be, and move on to the heart space."

I am always thinking thinking thinking. And I know many people here are the same. I'm not suggesting others ought to do this too - I think it very much depends on where you are up to with treatment and what good news / bad news you have had so far. I am ready for a rest from this - but I will have to re-train myself to acheive a bit of relief. I'm not sure I will manage it, but I am going to try.

I will still come on here - this is a big part of who I am and how my life is and I neeeeeed all your support. And I want to give support in return. If I can be a bit more happy over the summer, then lets see where that takes me. I can always go back to being a worry wart in a few months if the chilled approach doesn't make me feel better.

By the way - this is not a ' just relax and it will happen approach' - I clearly need medical help, I just want to take my foot off the peddle for a bit. It's been a very intense few months.

My reflex lady has given me some suggestions e.g.) write down 5 things a day I am grateful for or have enjoyed, more gardening and outdoorsy stuff, allocate more of our income for holidays (we have been a bit scroogy lately as worried about future costs), less time on pc (of couse), and writing a complaint letter to the Dr's at the hospital who handled my care badly these last few months - but don't send it.

Gosh - who would have thought been kinder to yourself would be this difficult?

Waves to everyone I have missed.

sarlat is this your mayan massage lady or are you having reflexology, sometimes you do need to step back and see the bigger picture, writing the letters are good, my counsellor suggested that with my parents/family but I actually sent mine and got some interesting results

Just popping in to give a massive (on-MN) hug to joycep about that shock. All useful things have been said. They did not test my AMH and will put me forward for IVF if no pg materialises with IUI in the next few goes. I am sure it'll be fine!

And pout that sounds awful. I would not be keen on clomid if it makes you feel this bad. Sorry about that too.

Generalised petting, waving, bosom offering, ice cream sharing (nice sorbet of course for princess) to you all. THere is no way I am going to manage to catch up properly. Sorry!

Here the news is that we're spending a LOT of money on hols and I have been getting my daily dose of vitamin D the natural way. So I am with your woo lady on that sarlat. However, it's CD1 here and I am starting a stimulated IUI cycle, so quite panicky about that too. Although I used ovidrelle as a trigger and my main side effect was distinct flatulence . I thought I'd gotten a completely PMT free month, but today I have been short and grumpy with DH, which was not very nice of me. So I might need to make up.

Thanks you wonderful ladies. I feel quite sick and distressed about it still. Of course I spent the night researching and there are always positive stories ou there to take some hope from.. AMH seems to be predictive where as fsh is in the moment if that makes sense.. It depends where you read but a lot of places put a lot of emphasis on Amh more so than fsh and antral follicle count which can both fluctuate. I also see anything above 15 antral follicles is ok so I am on the low side.
I expect this is not my only problem. MrJ admitted he is now very worried. sorry it is me me me.

Sarlat - I am glad the appt went well. Yes it would be interesting to understand why they put back the frostie straight after your lh surge. It will certainly give it more time to implant. I am fascinated to know how long it takes to defrost the embryo. What a good idea in trying to get your mojo back. Hopefully it will work and then you can share all your secrets.

Pout - I missed your bit about ivf and depression. I cannot believe it affects things with ivf. Even people who aren't prone to clinical depression can end up in a black hole with infertility and so I am sure they realise it is a trigger for all sorts of crap. It is truly awful how it is taking such a toll. Like you i fear what Mr Joy and i will do with our lives with no kids. Did you watch Ruby Wax's Mad Confessions?

In other news I am on cd23 and no boob pain. It's wonderful. In 2 years I have not had this. I wonder if that means I didn't ovulate but ivf is a definite so I am not going to complain about this freedom.

Joycep, that's strange you have no boob pain. Did you manage to sleep ok? I find my sleep is really bad at the moment, my mind whirrs with everything. I was thinking about you, and did a bit of googling and there are so many stories of women with very low amh having success. I dont think my clinic even tests amh before doing ivf.

Pout, I think depression and Infertility go hand In hand. How can it not make us down? So, please talk to your gp. I am still able to find pleasure in stuff but I know it's a fine line and I can totally envisage a time when there will only be darkness. All my hopes are pinned on ivf, I don't know how I will cope if it doesn't work.

Our genetic results are back. Dh all fine, no deletions and no sign of a mutation for cystic fibrosis. Mine ok except for an inversion on chromosone 9. It says in the letter this has no clinical relevance and is found in 1-3% of the population. But stupidly I've googled and what is the first thing that pops up? Infertility, miscarriage. From what I can tell there some anecdotal evidence of a link to miscarriage but no firm evidence. Shit, why do we have to be in the bottom 1% for everything? I'm going to pretent I haven't googled and instead just read the words in the letter which say its all fine. If I've got this then I must have inherited it and there is no history of miscarriage with my mum, sisters aunts etc. so I'm going to assume its ok. Damn google. They've tested for the 36 most common cystic fibrosis genes, dh is going to speak to the dr today to see whether she recommends testing for the full set. Dh is of the opinion we might as well have the full information, but this would mean more waiting.

Mrsd ? I didn?t sleep well at all, it probably didn?t help that our flat was about 30 degrees last night. My brain was whirring as well. Thank you for looking at the amh ? in a way I am pleased to hear they don?t bother looking at it at your place. Ignorance is bliss in all this and I wish I didn?t know my results. However on the other hand I think this has given me the kick up the backside i needed to face ivf. I was finding it very difficult to psychologically prepare for it.
Great news on your results. It?s terribly easy to see the bad side in results but I would take the fact that they said it was all fine as the gospel. If you looked at everyone?s chromosomes and bloods, i am sure you would find something slightly skewed. I have to say I have always been a bit of a glass half empty person, not on behalf of other people but just on myself. Anyway, infertility has made me even worse and I am tending to look at the negative side of things too.

However, I know that if we do end up having an ivf baby , I will be incredibly proud of what we went through to get there. It would seem a hard win compared to other friends who had it so straightforward. I have this idea in my head that because we are finding the whole conceiving process so emotionally exhausting that things like morning sickness, sleepless nights, crying babies will pale in insignificance. Do you think I am dreaming on that one?

I think that too joycep. We've been through so much that the pregnancy and baby bit should be a doddle. For example, one of my friends is due next month and she has got herself in a right tiz about losing her dignity in labour, she says there is no way she's having an internal. Whereas I know that wouldn't phase me in the slightest now. I can't believe that people can get to 30 odd weeks and not have had someone look up there! However, having said that I know that post natal depression is higher in women who've had ivf. I think because they think they must be grateful and not ask for help.

I'm a half glass empty person. I always have been, I know it infuriates dh.

Pout, are you going to watch this morning? Do they think that ivf women should be grateful for whatever they get? And should continue regardless? Our genetics dr did say that she would recommend cvs for icsi pregnancies because the risk of chromosomal abnormalities is slightly higher. Of course, me in my negative mind has thought that if we ever do get pregnant then joy would be short lived when we find out all the things wrong at 12 weeks. Do you think the this morning producers like to kick us when we're down. I wonder if it ever occurs to them that we're suffering enough pain already.

Morning ladies

joycep oh gosh, not what you wanted to hear I know. I get that you must be worried but like other have said, my meanderings around the internet have placed most emphasis on Antral Follicle Count and FSH/LH.
Did the consultant indicate the likely waiting time for IVF?
Take heart that the AMH test is an outdated diagnostic test by all accounts. If it was that significant every fertility clinic would be testing it & they aren't.
Thinking of you.
No boob pain is weird. What DPO are you?

mrsd I'm glad that your results have come back and that they are reassuring. Another thing to tick off the worry list I agree BTW about being in the 1% for horrible things grating after a while!

The depression thing is I guess par for the course with infertility. I can't remember, but I think it was rabbit who said that it is so difficult because there is no end in sight, no tunnel to go through and come out the other side. That is so true. MrP thinks that Clomid has messed with my hormones to the extent that any scrap of resilience I had has been squashed this month! For once I think that he is right. Also the family preggo announcement from a few weeks ago has knocked me for six. I feel devastated that I was told 6 months into the pregnancy to "protect my feelings". Actually the result is I feel much worse and now have no time to assimilate the news before the birth. At least if I knew from the outset I would have had the hope that me and MrP might get updiffed before the baby was born. Stupid thing to think I know. It has just triggered some awful feelings of jealousy and bitterness and despair that anything will ever work out for us.
Anyway, I think that I will see how I go on and if I still feel this bad I might well look into some kind of counselling. gin thank you for the reassurance that if you seek help that it doesn't booby trap your IVF file with sirens declaring that you are not only barren but mad too.
joycep I have TIVO'ed the Ruby Wax thing. Was it any good?

sarlat I liked your post and the stuff you said about leaving your head space and trusting in what will be.
I understand you and euro too about the having a family house and no family to live in it. I had that chat with MrP about how silly it is that we have a 3 bedroomed house. Maybe we should move to a one bedroomed flat and let the law of sod strike!

Other news is that the world seems determined to thwart any attempts at well timed SWI in this house. MrP's work keep hassling him about sending him away all over the bloody world for extended business trips and my sister has announced that she can't cope with my nephew right now and she's sending him here! If anybody finds a woman standing in the middle of a road screaming it will be me

How old is your nephew pout? We have a house that's too big for two. We really thought it would be perfect for a family. Sigh.

x-posted

joycep I agree that to become pregnant, by any means, would be something to feel immensely proud of. To have come through this is a feat of epic endurance. I have often thought (in my daydreaming moments) about giving a baby the middle name Faith. In fact I have framed a little picture with the words love and faith and it gives me some comfort and hope. Stupid me!

mrsd My first thought with the This Morning feature was exactly the same as you, about maybe the axe to be ground will be that barrens ought to feel grateful whatever and how awful to terminate a downs pregnancy if you have had IVF.
I maintain though that it is of no interest or educational value to the vast majority of the This Morning viewers and is just a "cheap", shock value piece.

mrsd he is 15 so will be bored stiff if he comes here.

Joy - so sorry to your AMF was out of kilter with your other very good results. Big hugs. There?s been lots of useful advice and words of wisdom on here already. It?s not the numbers that matter, ultimately, although I know exactly what you mean about the shock of hearing bad news. When I found out about my low AFC I felt like I?d been hit with a sledgehammer. I similarly spent a late night with google. There I found one chap, who I quite liked and who put it this way: ?The final proof of the pudding is in the eating - and your response to superovulation is the best way of assessing your ovarian reserve. If you grow eggs well, then you should not worry about your "numbers"!?

Now, to cheer you up, I was going to attach a photo of my new fur baby. However, I can?t work out how to do that . So, I shall have to describe her instead: she is small (obviously), fluffy and black, with big blue eyes. Still a little bit shy, but if you pretend not to notice her she?ll come up to you for a cuddle. The trouble is, she is one of three and they are all so adorable that I want to take them all home. Seriously, they sleep curled up in a heap with their arms wrapped around each other!

Waves to everyone else!

Wow mrsd , 30 weeks and no internal scan? They don?t know how lucky they are. Oh dear i didn?t realise ivfers are more prone to PND...although I am sure it can?t be the ivf itself that is the cause. I reckon if you are going to get it, you will get it. I am in no doubt that having a baby is hard work especially if they cry a lot but I would love to hear from someone with a really hard win whether or not years of infertility is harder than the looking after the baby. When I went for my hSg my friend said, ?well i?ll be giving birth in a few days so nothing is as painful as that?. Yes of course but I know I would prefer to be giving birth than being investigated for fertility issues. I have friends who say that suddenly having a baby is the hardest thing they have ever done and these aren?t people with PND ? and I do wonder whether it can be as hard as this?

Pout ? she would refer me for ivf straight after my op. I think it?s a 4/5month waiting list. It does sound like clomid has tipped you over the edge this month ? i am curious as to why they started you on 100mg as opposed to 50. It will be interesting to see how many eggs you produce on 100. I wonder whether you would feel better on 50 ? do you think you will do it again next month? I am not surprised you have been floored by this 6month preggo announcement especially as it was to ?spare your feelings?. What? I told you a few months ago the message i had from my old school friend announcing the birth of her child and she had never told me she was pregnant. It took me a full week to get over it and process it. I had extremely jealous and bitter thoughts too , especially along the lines of , ?they have it all?...even her dad has a helicopter in the garden. Not that that has anything to do with fertility but just thinking about it annoyed me! . Anyway, thankfully these feelings do pass after a while. Oh Faith is a nice name...what would you do if it was a boy? I do know the odd Freya (Norse goddess of Fertility) and I wonder whether the parents had issues.

Beryl - was was your AFC result again. I am sure that is right - the proof will be in the pudding! Also you little fur baby sounds sooo cute. We need more of these happy little stories on here.

I found this article, it really sums up the worries. www.bionews.org.uk/page_37822.asp