TTC for 10+ months, part 8

[eurochick]

A friendly, supportive thread for those taking a blooming long time to conceive!

Wow, I wish I lived in Gloucestershire.

www.bionews.org.uk/page_158565.asp

I had just five follicles in total, joy. Pretty rubbish! I?m steeling myself for bad news when I get the results from my blood tests (FSH, Estradiol and AMF) next month. I think a few people recently were saying how they had always suspected they might have difficulty conceiving. I was the opposite. I really thought it would be fine and, even after it appeared that we might have a problem, I still believed it would all work out somehow. So this sudden feeling of doubt about the whole thing is really new. And, I have to say, really awful! If I let myself think about it ? which I am trying not to do ? the tears well up immediately. And I keep seeing all these people around with kids and I catch myself thinking how unfair it all is and asking why they deserve it but not me etc. I don?t like thinking stuff like that. It?s not unfair, it?s just one of those things, and it happens to have affected me. There are worse things that could have happened, I need to remind myself. But it?s still so f**king shit!

It's supposed to be 3 funded cycles everywhere here, according to national guidelines, but most areas disregard them.

The first article about the long term impact of infertility/IVF is quite thoughtful. There seems to be so little written about the emotional impact of all this, which, as these boards show, is huge.

Beryl - It will be interesting to see what your bloods say because they could tell a different story. It seems that AFC can vary enormously as well. In the dead of last night I found examples of people who had 4 follies on one count and 6 months later they had 11. It is awful having to get your head round this . Life can be unfair and when my hormones and my mood aren't raging with self pity, I do say to myself there are worse things that can happen and I must be grateful for what I have.
I Take heart from a woman in my ivf companion book who was going through the menopause at 31. It suddenly happened, her fsh was 60 and she basicslly had no eggs but with ivf she still had a child.
And my doc said yesterday that she sees people with the most awful hormone levels and then they get pregnant naturally. If there are eggs, there is hope.

You sound a lot more settled already joycep. Well done you. Although I think the googling has helped a little. I'll just keep fingers crossed for you. Also, I am sorry if my stories of the lap scared you. But I agree with rabbit that a 10 day turn around for feeling normal afterwards is about right. Also people react very differently to GA, and I fall in the "not-great" category. When is your lap? Exciting to be moving onto the IVF waiting list, we're on it too, it's about 5 months, I think.

Fingers crossed your bloods will be okay Beryl. And remember, it is quality not quantity and you only need one sticky one!

Also pout, I forgot to react to your IVF and counselling worries yesterday. I am convinced it would NOT count against you. It is all about getting the support you need to cope with this shit.

Interesting article, mrsd. The one on the emotional impact. In some ways I see bits of my mum in it, even though she coped very well with pg and our early childhood, she does have a thing about never doing enough and feeling guilty about that. Even though, frankly, she is the most amazing mum I can imagine. The parents are on holidays at the moment, and I keep on checking myself when I fancy a chat about nothing not to call them (because they are a little behind the times with technology and are convinced it will cost me a fortune to call them on their mobiles abroad, bless them).

Right, I've done a decent amount of work, but think it should be time for fun now. But I have lots of not-so-fun things left to do... Onwards and forwards.

Lemon - you didn't scare me at all. I am going to be terrified especially as I had a horrible reaction to the only anaesthetic I had before. It was only a local one in my finger. My brother had one once and I remember he wa very sick afterwards. My friend had a lap 10 years ago and they put something over her face and pressed down on her throat before she went under - is this what happens?
Your parents sound lovely.

Oh joycep that sounds HORRIBLE! In my case they gave me GA intraveneously. They put a mask on my face, but that was just extra oxygen while going under. And they explained all this in the pre-op. They topped up the painkillers intraveneously as well, when I was in recovery. I was not remotely sick and could get out of bed and to the bathroom fairly quickly. So that level of recovery was fine. It was just getting my brain back in working order that took a little while. Also, if you can find out what it was you reacted badly too, they will avoid that and its family members for your lap. You will be fine, anaesthesia has moved on LOADS in the recent past!

critter that's unfortunate about the scan. Very sorry about the cancelled cycle. Try to forget about it and enjoy your holiday and enjoy your love shack, maybe some of the good luck will wear off on you.

Also, wow! Your missing tampon story is really gross (and kind of funny). I'm totally paranoid about forgetting them up there or accidentally using a second one, pushing the first into my uterus.

Carrie hope the naughty underwear did the trick!

rabbit I completely agree with your 10 day lay turnaround rule. You can patent it.

Gin I completely agree on refusing to act like a preggo. I did that for the first few cycles (avoided all the usual stuff in the 2ww) but now I refuse to do it on principle. It makes no difference anyway and it just adds to the sacrifices we are already making in that area. Not to say I'm not trying to live a healthy lifestyle overall but I refuse to base what I choose to eat and drink on the minute chance that I might be pregnant.

buzzy glad you had a good talk with the lady. Maybe some mutual support will help you both?

beryl jealous of the new furbaby. The only bad thing about having cats is that you can't (or shouldn't) keep getting new kittens. Unless you want to be the crazy cat lady, in which case, that's cool.

euro I would have chosen the Game of Thrones conversation any day. I would have chosen that one even if I was pregnant myself. It's not for every one but I love the books and the show and it 's one of very few shows both DH and I like. Chuckling at the thought of barren seats, we really should get something for all our trouble. How fair is it that those of us (the barren) know so much more about conception and pregnancy than the pregnant women themselves. We're theoretical masters and practical dunces.

joyce I'm so sorry to hear about your low AMH levels. Sounds like the other things are working though . . . very baffling. Hopefully you'll get some answers from your lap/hyst. Lots of us have been through them and it's no fun at the time but it's over quickly and it just a tiny op so you're not under for very long.
I agree with you that going through these things will make any future struggles pale in comparison. I was talking about our fertility issue with a friend who then started telling me about her other friend's baby who is apparently very difficult. She kept referring to the baby as "it" and I think she was trying to imply that having no baby would be better than having "it". I was appalled and told her if she was trying to put me off having babies this wasn't the right way that of course I would rather have a terribly difficult baby than no baby at all. Did she think I thought babies were all cuddles and giggles?!

sarlat that sounds like a very healthy frame of mind to aim for. Good for you

lemon good luck with your iui this cycle. I will be following your posts closely to see how you get on.

mrsden step away from google, if you look hard enough you can find a link between buck teeth and infertility. Good for you on the positive result for both you and Mrden. I'm a glass half empty person too and it's a good thing that Mrden and MrM aren't.

Sounds like the overwhelming lesson from here today is that clomid is no fun to be on. I wonder if that's what the fertility specialist will advise for me. Guess I'll find out next week. DH has started taking his Tamoxifen, it's not meant to make a huge difference but any little bit helps. He told me, for the record, that he wouldn't be allowed to participate in any sporting competitions while taking it. Bad luck there for my little couch surfer.

joycep my 2 GAs (one for lap) were not like that at all. In both, the GA was given intravenously and the staff laughed and joked with me to keep me relaxed before telling me to count back from 10. I don't think I reached 8 either time. I don't remember anything going on my face. They must have put the oxygen on as I went out. And then I woke up.

I had an allergic reaction a couple of days later the first time where I came out in a rash. I also woke up screaming the place down the first time (I don't remember - I wasn't in pain). I had none of that the second time. I guess they used a different drug.

Mine was given to me by IV and I actually walked myself to the operating table. I remember putting my feet in the stirrups, scooching forward and then I was gone. No mask over my face and if I had a tube down my throat, it was gone before I woke up and I didn't have a sore throat so thought maybe they skipped that. Either that or I missed it completely.

I'm surprised they walked me over after giving me the iv though, I'd assume that I could have collapsed, couldn't I? Or perhaps I'm really misremembering and they only gave me the sedative before walking me over and then gave me the anaesthesia after I was sat in the chair. Shows how much you remember.

I think with short operations like a lap/hyst it's not so bad.

I popped myself on the chair as well, they did bring me to theatre in a bed, because I'd been given a sedative. I was told they'd put a breathing tube in, but it was not there when I woke up and my throat was fine. So I think if I had one, so did MissM but providing they are halfway competent you won't notice a thing. They were lovely and explained everything to me too, although I loose all recollection from when they added something that could make you a bit woozy... No counting, just waking up being very confused where time had gone...

Euro - screaming the place down? Eeek and the rash!
Miss m - what is tamoxifen doing for your DH? And putting your own feet in the stirrups...
Ok for some reason I thought this was a major op but it sounds like it is quick. Thank goodness for you ladies - I'm not sure where I would be without you. And did you all have a hysterscopy at the same time?
I am very good at freaking myself out as you can tell. Much better if there wasn't a long build up and wait to it.

Sorry, joycep. I didn't mean to scare you! I don't remember the screaming. The nurses told me about it later and thought I was in a lot of pain or something, but I was completely oblivious! I'd equate it to talking in your sleep when your OH tells you about all the ridiculous things you have been mumbling and you had no idea you had even been talking (or maybe that is just me!). The rash came a couple of days later, when I was back up at university. The GP gave me something for that. It was really no bother. They don't know whether it was a reaction to the GA or something else I had been given. The delay was rather odd. I have form on getting skin reactions to drugs though.

It is a very short op, so you won't need a heavy anaethetic. It really is fine.

I didn't have a hysteroscopy at the same time but my lap was years ago and not part of fertility investigations.

And I have no idea whether I got a hysteroscopy. But I have a follow-up (phone) appointment next week and will let you know. They may have told me, but my brain just went to mush...

Hi all. I've never had a GA so can't contribute but the sedation during ivf was fine and made me feel all chilled and happy!

joy Pleased to see you are feeling a little better. From memory you said that you produced loads of follies on gonal f just for iui, so I'd be really surprised if you don't have a good ovarian reserve.

beryl I'm soooo jealous of your new fur baby, who sounds gorgeous. We really need to have a real baby soon, as I don't think fur baby could take much more parenting from me and mr gin!

missm I'd take the Game of Thrones conversation too! We're big fans of the show, although all the naked boobs annoyed me a bit. Do tell us about the tamoxifen. Is it meant to improve sperm? When I was on gonal f, we noticed that it can be used for sperm - was tempted to give mr g a shot!

euro well done with the christening.

Your plan sounds very sensible sar and you sound very chilled. I'm hoping to do our next ivf cycle in October. Do you know how the clinic checks that your cycle is back to normal? Not sure how they decide when you are ready to do another!

mrsd yay for the good results and try not to worry about the one odd one. Easier said than done I know! And I'm sure ivf will work for you. There is no reason why you won't get great embryos. Intersting about postnatal depression & ivf. I do tend to think like missm that anything can be linked if you try hard enough... I know several people who've had PND, from instadifs who had easy births to those who had very premature babies. Like any mental health issue, I assume there are no rules. I suspect those more prone to depression may be more likely to get it. Also that article assumes the woman is having ivf cos of a problem with her and doesn't mention male factor...

pout hormones esp fake ones are powerful things and I'm sure the clomid must be affecting your mood. I'm probably certifiable when u have pmt... Eek maybe I will get PND if I ever get updiffed.

I watched the Ruby Wax programme, which was interesting. Having a parent who's had clinical depression, I can see that I'm a long way from that. Like you mrsd, I still find pleasure in things and generally enjoy myself, although sometimes things are tinged with a little bit of sadness or a lot if it's pmt time! With the ivf fail, I thought I could continue to cry and be sad about this or pull myself together and try to enjoy myself, the decision was mine. Kinda works most of the time..although not sure what will happen if we can never have children, not even adopted ones. The padded cell may beckon!

buzzy pleased to hear you are feeling more like yourself. Does mr b have another SA some point soon?

A rather weak heat fatigued wave to everyone else.

Well I seem to have sore boobs for me and joy this month - they are soooo ouchy! Think this means my period will be a right bitch. And I bet it times itself for my trip to the south of France next week. Am visiting my mum and can't wait for some lounging on the poolside with a bottle glass of cool rose and none of this having to work in 30 degree heat rubbish!

V quick post on GA - I had no sedative and was walked to theatre both times for lap and mega op. fiddly bit was putting canula in hand but they pre numb the skin so all fine. No counting they just said that I'd start to feel relaxed, one second of feeling off my face, then nothing. The ga are so so much better these days, really don't worry. It takes a while to flush it out your system but I've had 4 ops now and the past 2 the ga has been miles better. And no one pressed my throat! But make no mistake, a lap is still surgery and you must take a minimum of a week off work and be really looked after. Lots and lots of hand holding from the lap medal owners on here

gin sorry to hear about the ouchy boobs. A week of sunning by a French pool will do the trick - France and sunshine and rose and pool-lounging are tried and true mojo-restorers!

missmedusa when do you leave for the Great North? I'm excited on your behalf. I agree about refusing to live like a preggo while ttc - this process is depressing enough as it is.

lemon your mum sounds like a sweetie.

joy how are you feeling? I liked the tale from the IVF companion book. Like you, I will be really proud of myself if I do manage to have an IVF baby. And I think this process does put the slog of child rearing into perspective - at least that's what my parents said to me (they took three years to have my sister). We will value our little ones so dearly when they arrive.

mrsd very interesting articles - thanks for posting.

pout I can't believe they told you six months in. Bloody hell. How upsetting. How are you doing? I've said it before, clomid is the devil's juice. Have you finished your course of it yet?

beryl love the sound of the gorgeous little fur baby. Maybe a profile pic?

euro have your cycles come back yet?

sarlat loved hearing your calm and thoughtful take on the mental head space stuff. I am trying to meditate, it seems to help.

I am now fretting that maybe I have a low ovarian reserve and that's why I can't seem to ovulate. I emailed the clinic to ask them what they would do when I came back after my hols....whether they'd stick me back on a sixth round of Clomid or move onto injectibles. Last night DH's parents came over - they are lovely people, but his dad made a comment about how IVF wasn't 'natural'. I think he was trying to be 'devil's advocate' and make a sort of joke, but I did not find it funny at all - they know we are TTC and his mum knows what's going on with me - I'm afraid I slightly let them have it by saying in an irritable tone that their grandchild was probably going to arrive thanks to chemical help. Gah! I know the last thing that he would have wanted to do was upset me, but he's made a similar joke before and it got my goat.

Waves to rabbit and buzzy - and princess, who is uncharacteristically absent - and everyone else that I've craply missed.

Very quick post to say hi all.
I've had GA a few times, a lap at 19, another for treatment realating to that and another for an advanced ectopic with 7 cysts. Each time I felt fine going under, sicky once awake and dozy but back at work in a week and half. After the ectopic I went back to work and got told off by gp they forget to tell me because of the cysts and how big the surgery was I was meant to have a 6 week sick note but I didn't need it. Having said all that I am worried about being back at the gyne and having another.
Didn't do the stockings thing, OH was too tired, felt very rejected argued a bit then dtd after a quick makeup then argued again lol. Not bad just both tired, feeling the stress and not really wanting to miss the chance.
Don't really have anything more to say, we have no treatment, no clue what our problem is or what we do now.
Took my DD who is 6 out for tea and almost cried at one point looking at her thinking I'm so lucky to have her and how bad I feel that I can't have anymore

critter thanks for the tip (I didn't know I had a profile ). I think if you click on my name now, you will see them!

Critter no sign of a cycle yet. I'm on day 31 (counting my first day of my downreg bleed as day 1) and I haven't oved yet. It feels very odd now. My cycles have been very regular over the past few years so my natural rhythm has been upset! I do have the horn today though, and I am getting some CM (was very dry on the downregging drugs and afterwards, which I guess figures as they make you menopausal!) so maybe something is returning to normal.

joyce sorry you haven't slept well, I would tell then that you had a bad reaction so they should monitor you, my 3 GA's have all been IV the staff were lovely and chatty and explained what they were doing lemon and rabbit are right about the 10 day turn around, that was the same for Mr B

beryl fingers crossed for your results, your fur baby sounds so cute, my fur baby cushion has arrived

pout at the no telling you until 6 months, that would make me personally feel worse

medusa she is a lovely lady and we had a good chat yesterday, can I ask why Mr M is on tamoxifen?? Alot of women say they feel like crap on Clomid so I don't understand why they don't use an alternative

mrsd glad your results were good

gin yes he does in about 2 weeks, he wants to wait until the end of the cycle as he is hoping praying to every god there is that I will be pregnant and he won't have to do it oooh the South of France is beautiful

critter at clomid being the devils juice, its frustrating and annoying when people make light of our situation, I know it must be awkward to know what to say but my mother the horrible cow always used to say 'if you haven't got anything nice or polite to say then don't say anything at all' I couldn't believe some of the comments that people came up with when I miscarried a simple sorry works a treat or thinking of you, hopefully he won't make the same mistake again

Well I have spent the day with my Canadian friend who is moving to Australia and her little 2 year old son, he is so cute and very affectionate, I liked the fact that he would happily take hold of my hand and lead me to a different play area I haven't seen then for nearly 2 years so it was great, she has had a few miscarriages and now struggling to get pregnant, it was nice to chat to someone face to face about it, although I don't think she got particularly good care in Calgary (was told it was all due to her age 39) so hopefully once they have moved she will be able to get some investigations, can't believe I have to go to work tomorrow......

waves to everyone

Morning lovely 10+ers!

I declare today a good day - will let you know if it is when I come back from my CD3 scan. But really, if it is a short and sharp cycle, there is no way it can be bad, right?

Just thinking of all of you. And wondering where princess has gone. She is so quiet. Has she been spotted by someone in RL based on her tennis outfit? Or het playsuit?

hooray Lemon - it WILL be a good day. Good luck with the scan.

Didn't Princess have some lovely and lush spa break thing coming up?

Buzzy - it was my reflxology lady who had the stern words to evict me from my head space - although I'm sure my Maya lady would say the same thing. I have been seeing my reflex lady for about 18 months now and although she is very professional we are quite 'chummy' in each others company. She said to me "I'm now going to say these things to you because I care, and because being anxious and trying to control things hasn't worked for you and beacuse I know you can 'take it'. " She is very intuitive because I do need to have a mental rest from this but wasn't trying very hard to shake off old habbits e.g. hours on computer every night.

Mrs Den - sorry to hear about the chromosome thing. Must be unsettling. But I really believe what others have said is true. Everybody has a 'bit of this' or a 'lacking of that' about their person. It's just that we go looking for it due to our situations. There will be thousands of people with your chromosome thing who have babies every year who don't know thay have it. You are right about your mum and sisters managing to give birth etc too. It would be more than the clinic's life is worth to document something in a letter to say something is not of great importance when actually it is. I hope you feel better about it. But I know it's easier from the outside perspective.

Gin - sorry love was it you who asked when the clinic decide my cycles are back to normal? Well they haven't been that interested really. They asked where I was up to this cycle and we discussed how to manage a natural cycle in relation to dates for transfer. But overall they havn't made a decsion about when to go again. They have left it up to me. I have been very fortunate to have fairly good cycles post IVF. My first cycle was all on time (but that is not classed as proper cycle as end of IVF). I am now having my first proper cycle and seems ok although ovulated about 4 days late but no big deal I don't think. (I hope).

Joycep - Hope you are feeling ok and that horrid gnorring feeling that comes to the pit of the stomach is lifting. Be confident going in to this IVF cycle (if you stil need it in a few months time). I know what you mean about a fright jolting you in to IVF. Suddenly it seems like the lesser of the 2 evils. And keep that positive frame of mind about being proud to have a baby conceived with the help of IVF. Whan you start your cycle, you will see how much of this is about you and DH - the Dr's and nurses are just 'handlers' of the eggs and sperm - they can't 'make babies' as such. That is all about you and DH.

Sorry about all the crazy clomid stories - I am lucky to have escaped that particular demon.

2 phrases stay in my mind at present. I recently read an article that said most women with fertility struggles do eventually get pregnant once the right course of action is found. And from One Born Every Minute - Midwife talking about woman with multiple miscarriages and IVF treatment - she said that of all the women with infertility, the ones who eventually get their babies are the ones who never give up. Never giving up could mean many things of course but most people who have egg and sperm, even in minimal quantities get there.

Hello to Euro, Pout, Beryl, Rabbit, Princess, C ritter, Carrie, Mrs M, anyone I have missed. Hope everyone on holiday is having a fab time.

Today will be a good day lemons! Good luck with your scan.
Sarlat, you always talk so much sense. Not giving up is key. The drs I've spoken to all talk about when rather than if. My main worry is not having unlimited funds, At some point we wont be able to afford to carry on. But I'm going to take it one cycle at a time.

Joycep, I think that op is a fairly quick one so you won't be under for long. I think the risks with ga are when you need to be under for a long time and they have to use a mix f drugs to keep the person asleep and pain free. I've never had a ga, and it's a big fear of mine. My clinc does ec under ga, this is the part of the process which worries me the most. How long until you have the op?

I'm taking the relaxed approach this month, I'm not even certain what cd I'm on. I figure there's no point to knowing, if it happens it happens. I'm just concentrating on ivf for the autumn.

Tamoxifen is an estrogen binder which is normally prescribed to women with breast cancer. I guess because it binds estrogen it raises testosterone levels in men which, in turn, is supposed to help with sperm production. I'm sceptical though because DH's testosterone levels are fine, in fact they're on the high side of fine so not sure how this is supposed to help. I'm also sceptical as the only positive improvements to semen I've been able to find documented have been to sperm count and that's not really DH's problem. He's got the lazy swimmers. That said, he has been uncharacteristically nice and easy to got on with since he started taking them so maybe it has other side effects :-P Plus an increase in sex drive wouldn't go amiss during these days of timed DTD either. I think it works a lot like clomid in that if it hasn't had an effect in 3 months it won't so he'll have another test in 3 months time and either continue if it's making a difference or not.

joyce I had a hysteroscopy as well. I don't think I felt any additional pain from it but it's normal to bleed a little from it. I got my period the same day I got mine so I wasn't able to tell whether the bleeding was normal AF or from the hysteroscopy. Whatever the case it was finished by the time AF was done. I did get some heavy spotting 2 weeks later when I carried heavy groceries which I think may have been from the hysteroscopy so watch that you take it easy in the first while.

Gin I agree with you regarding depression, it is something you have to actively choose not to be (and continue to choose every day). Hormonal and chemical imbalances aside, there is a behavioural aspect to the different forms of depression as well. Whether or not you need help from other sources as well, you still have to make the choice not to be depressed over and over again.

sarlat I like that as a TTC motto. Never Give Up