TTC 10 plus months, Part 7

[lisacn]

A friendly, supportive thread for those of us who are taking a bloody long little longer time than average to conceive.

Oh euro I am so sorry for how miserable you are feeling, I hope the cry will have helped. By the sounds of things, the decision to stop now may well help further. I agree that keeping you in this emotional state is inhumane and I think it is outrageous they suggested it in the first place, also at the ability to move when you decided to stop now. What a bunch of morons, do they not realise this process is crap enough without making it worse? Thinking of you and feeding you lemon drizzle cake (so you'll need to looser fitting trousers anyway). The plan sounds like a good one!

Ah, well. That's Monday over by the time on my work phone. Thank you for all of your kind words and experiences. And for the fish slaps. So we are only two hob-nobs down with a packet of value digestives in the post and 2 x Duchy's in the cupboard. I would not be mentalling so much if I had had this before; if I had been feeling around up there too much; had had wild, dangerous and vigorous sexy time (a la Nelly!!!) I have off loaded on DH, who is showing genuine concern and emailed bestie. Emailing and writing it all down has been cathartic. I've actually done some real work this afternoon and had two wees resisting any form on testing. I am going to test on Wednesday (Thurs / Fri if I can hold out). I haven't heard back from the nutritionist. I was explaining to my BF how bored I am of having so many strangers in on our sex life. To quote my email to brown goddess: We did have unprotected sex by accident on CD11, but I have been following the fertility awareness model and thought that this was too early to get pregnant anyway - so I haven't worried about it. I feel like a teenager without any sort of awareness. This is ridiculous. So in a short time, I'm off to clean the flat, cook the dinner, read some Nietzsche (for anyone down with philosophy he feels very appropriate to me right now - he was teetotal, discovered that he preferred a light Mediterranean diet choosing to cook with olive oil and not butter (basically the 19th Century Brown Diet) and his thing in a nutshell is that disappointment is necessary before achieving the greatest things in your life. Yes, the big Philosophy guns are back out. And boy do I need to channel some of that heavy shit right now. Plus Blur are launching their new singles tonight. First singles in many years. I will be tuning in at 6pm. Distractions are my friends.

Critter I've still got my fingers crossed for you and your result. In awe of your coping mechanisms. I'm totally of your clinic. I have a blood test tomorrow. Patient Appreciation Day NHS style: receptionist smiling and looking up to ask your name rather than scowling and grunting; a clean practice toilet rather than one heavily soiled by overweight children who eat junk food exclusively and appear to have some sort of digestive problems; and being allowed to lie down for blood test rather than being looked at like a mental for mentioning your fear of needles and tendency to pass out at the sight of your own life force in a tube.

Wine I'm sorry about your anemia. Can they give you injections instead? OHs cousin has B12 injections because her stomach acid isn't allowing her digestive system to absorb any B12. I must say that I am skeptical of this approach but they do genuinely perk her up. Do you take / eat sufficient vit C to allow the iron to be absorbed? It's similar to my low magnesium and zinc thing whereby you have to have certain minerals together for optimum nutrition. I don't think you explain things uselessly - I've never got that impression from you.

Artemis timings are going against you at the moment. Sorry to hear about the conference at potentially ov time. I'm sending early ov vibes your way. I'm glad you are in the calm time at the mo. Do you think it would be better to get the chat out of the way now before your holiday and whilst you are in the calm phase? You could then go away and do your best to try and forget about TTC shizzle.

Pout If you must know when you get your surge, I reckon you probably need to pee on a stick every wee? I got 50 for £7 - that's 14p a go. I do on average 6 wees a day. That's less than a quid each day. If MrP needs some reassurance that you are not spending your life savings on pee sticks, you could tell him that 4 days of pee sticks is less than a pint (if you are in the South - which I think you are)? It's about £4.50 these days down here. £4.50! I remember when pints were less than £1.50 and not on £1 pint nights either. I'm sorry for crapola weekend. I've never had hemorrhoids but I know that my uncle had them and grandad used to have to poke them back up his bum for him. Poor pout

Carrie your tattoo sounds amazing. I'm in awe. I don't think anyone on here would tell you to go away / shut up moaning. We all have stuff to moan about and you're having a particularly rubbish time at the mo. I'm keeping an eye on the spotting. There doesn't seem to be any more this afternoon, although I have had a few twinges but on both sides and nothing painful. If it still doesn't feel right or pain gets worse I'll see the doctor who will no doubt fob me off and tell me to go home and stop being so anxious

JoyceP I did have a sly grin about your colleague on Friday. I rather enjoyed the film about Kevin because I thought it was one of the most genuinely terrifying films I have seen in ages and I thought it was well executed. Remember I'm a bit of a film boffin and so I like films that invoke genuine emotion. It does make you, or rather, one think about parenting though. Something I will no doubt fret about constantly if I ever get there. I called my mum and bitch once when I was a teen and she slapped me across the face. I was and I think she was at her reaction as well. We are a family of feisty females!!

Nelly really glad that you and Mr N are on the mend and he is more on your side. That's really great news.

To add to the mentalling dilemma, I suddenly realised that I haven't been crying at TV adverts or sending shoes / fruit / other projectiles in MrPs head direction. I am normally in full swing by now. And right now I am calm. Placid like a lake (worrying about spotting aside - but even this doesn't feel pre-periody at all, just genuine concern and hmmmn what's going on feeling). No tantrums, no inner anger and no hatred vented toward family and friends. I'm not complaining. I like it like this. Maybe it's just my body adjusting and the diet bringing on the progesterone or maybe mini princess is settling in right now and turning me into a regular non hormonally challenged lady.

Right, off to a bit of housework and evening stuff before Mr Princess gets home :)

euro that you have been treated like that, I can't believe they'd hold you in limbo til Saturday. I hope the cry was a good cathartic release and I think plan B sounds good for body and soul. If you decide to stop it will be because you have been brave to listen to your instincts. I found out about a friends sister today who is due in August who gave up her ivf cycle last year because she hated it. They were three months into the adoption process when you guessed it, she got pregnant on an African safari. I know these 'i just gave up and bingo' stories aren't always helpful but there is hope there. I continue to think that a lot of us on here will just take time.

X post Euro I am so sorry that this process has made you feel so awful As I said before you have to do what's right for you. If it's making you feel this awful and you are still feeling that IVF isn't the way forward you will be making the right decision for you. As you say you have options further down the line. And you are only 36, so plenty of time to make any decisions at a later stage, if you feel ready. I'm sorry its taken its toll on you both. I'm completely disgusted with their scheduling and ability to move things when you expressed your feelings. It's completely wrong. I think they often forget that they are dealing with very delicate emotions. Sometimes it feels all a bit like animal farming - cold, clinical and perfunctory. I think that your plan B is taking shape. And it sounds to me that you are more comfortable with this approach. Hope you have productive chats and that Mr E is a strong shoulder to cry on tonight.

Oh euro what a disgrace and am aghast that the clinic operates like that. I am sorry . The drugs have obviously played carnage with your body and once everything kicks in to action again , you'll feel much better. Also it's good you've got a plan going forward and hopefully further tests will throw up something key, if of course this dabble with ivf doesn't kick your body in to getting pregnant first. You've been amzing though, given it a go, you weren't ready for it and you can always come back to it if necessary.

wine...i feel like running off to book an African safari now .Love those stories. It could happen to any of us.

princess - argh, mentalling, hair pulling time for you! I don't know what's worse, no hope or lots of hope. If this is your month, that would be amazing especially with dtd 5 days before ! Kev was well made i thought. Quite arty but so scary.

carrie - sorry you are so down at the moment. You have a huge amount going on. And funding is appalling and unfair in the UK and it seems to be echoed on the BBC today.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-18675858

pout - i've replied to your thread about your over mature follies. I haven't been very helpful i'm afraid but It's really interesting and you really need to get another scan in so they can see what is going on. Do you think that is possible?

nelly - i am pleased that you are MrNelly are baack on speaking terms. I would just save up anyway for a round the world trip and then surprise him in a few years!

critter - still hoping for you....but clearly they do things properly out in the States.

Hi all. Just popping in quickly as I have a bad hormonal headache thing and squinting at tiny phone mumsnet prob doesn't help!

Just wanted to say that euro you have made a very brave decision. It sounds like you have a good plan and I hope the feeling of relief continues and makes you feel more positive about your decisions. Gawd, I can't believe they were just going to leave you hanging in menapause. How can that be good for you? And even if you start stimming on a certain date, how can they tell how quickly your eggs will develop and when you may need EC? I'm sooooo pleased I found Create, even if it's bankrupting us/mr gin's parents!! But I'm so sorry it's all made you feel so miserable. Hope your summer gets much better from now onwards.

carrie have you looked into egg sharing? Can't remember how old you are, but if you're under 36 and willing to share your eggs you can have free ivf at many of the private clinics. After our next parent-funded cycle, that is going to be our next option.

pout I really would recommend smiley face opks! You use 1st morning wee, so much easier than others that you have to time your with peeing/drinking. They are fecking expensive, but worth it I think.

Sorry to hear about weird spotting, tests results not coming through and lack of sun misery. Right, I'm off to lie in a darkened room.

Wine - sorry for the tiredness. Apologies if I have missed a trick but can anemia be a contributing factor to TTC difficulties? I will let you know how the new woo goes. I think maya massage is especially good for structural / alignment problems.

Nelly - really glad you and Mr N have found some common ground -I predict that he will 'get' your plan A and plan B thinking. It sounds like he is really beginning to process all this stuff and he will need time to absorb it all. You guys sound like you really deserve a nice treat together to break away from all the stress. Could you book a lovely night away somewhere? I am inclined to think that he will start to come round to your way of thinking even more.....works with Mr Sar.

Carrie - really sorry about the lack of funding for IVF. It is bloody unfair. I feel I want to do something to put it right for you - but I don't know what. Others have given good advice about checking all the tests have been done. Have you looked in to alternative treatments too? I understand there are charities which try to provide some funding for people needing IVF but don't have a clue who / where they are. Really hope the liver / kidney functions improve.

Pout - if it were me, I would say I had a positive opk. If you feel you know your body (which I'm sure you do) and can sense ovulation then go for it. OPK's are open to misinterpretation so if you get it wrong, they can hardly tell you off or anything.

Princess - so sorry about the metalling over the 6 dpo spotting. Gahh, this is a crazy old business. I had pink / brown spotting in about 4 cycles in all the 2 and bit years we have been ttc, about day 6 or 7 dpo. I hoped it was inplantation. But for me it wasn't or was failed inplantation. I love a good problem to puzzle over, I do.....so here are my two peneth worth. 1) It could be hormone adjustment and break through bleeding type thing which would make sense based on how you have been trying so hard to re-programme your hormones. 2) could be implantation bleeding - hoping this is what it is. 3) It could be your body 'reacting' to the fact that you DTD this month. Am I right in thinking this is the first time in a while owing to your strict TTC free brown diet lifestyle? If so I wonder if your body is 'dealing' with your DH's 'material' for want of a better word. I don't know if you remember Joycep and I talking about this problem upthread where people's cycles go a little whcky the minute they ttc as they start to have unprotected sex. This stuff is based on the reseach of that Dr that Joycep contacted recently. Princess - I am more than likely way off the mark but something to be aware of. If Joycep reads this, I'm hoping she will explain it better than me. But the person who can offer you the most wisdom will be your nutritionalists - let us know what she says.

Critter - strawberries and croissants - in a fertility clinic - faints. I hope you filled your boots!!!

nelly it said in the Metro so it must be true that there have been 5 million IVF babies born since Louise Brown in 1978 and that it is not just seen as a solution for older barren women. I tell work I have hospital appt they all know for what, if I told them the truth that it was a private appointment they would make me take it out of my leave Glad Mr N

princess it could be implantation bleed or it could just be some old blood that has finlly worked its way out. Only time and alot of menatling will tell, hope you got some answers from your nutritionist

purple at the fuel to the crazy

carrie super big hugs to you, it is shit that some places get funding and others don't, we don't i'm too old for any help from the NHS unless I miscarry gain and it is too early to test

pout what size was your follicule again?? I think I have heard that if they are mahoosive like well over 26mm or so then that could be the case, I shall ask Shehata when I see him again, I worried with ovulating too early that they wouldn't be ready but his nurse Louise said they would be fine I might need to move into your faux surrey address to get on the IVF list, sorry about the preggy announcement, my Canadian friend is over here, I have to admit I was relieved when she said she wasn't pregnant at the moment(she has a toddler and has been trying for No:2 for 17 months and had 2 miscarriages), i'm hoping that it stays like that until after we meet up later in the month

critter still holding out hope for your blood test

artemis 8 is lucky in China so hopefully it will be on here too, hoping you ovulate on time too

Well I went for my scan in Harley Street how posh broke am I, they were very nice, bloody impressive building, anyway the drugs haven't done much and my left ovary is fecking lazy and there was only 1 follie at 12mm and one at 6mm both on the right. I'm CD10, anyway the man emailed Mr Shehata who is away at a conference and he called me back wonder if I will be extra for it I'm going to have another scan on Friday just to make sure that I do ovulate, not totally convinced by all the poas cbfm, smiley opk and internet cheapies,and yes I do sometimes pee on all three at once. So not sure what will happen if I ovulate on CD12 which is what has been happening lately i'm hoping i'll ovulate later and maybe get a shag in, will probably have to up the drugs to kick start the party on left side, funnily enough I'm getting ovulation pains on that side stupid body playing tricks on my neurotic mind

waves to everyone else

Will do proper post tomorrow but for now I wanted to send love to euro
I am aghast that the clinic were prepared to leave you for a week just to fit in with their diary. Fuckwits. It really pisses me off the lack of empathy or awareness about how crappy the process is. Probably belies the notion that us barrens should be grateful for any assistance.

I'm so sorry that after everything this tipped you into ending the cycle. I am slightly heartened to read though that you think that your tears are more relief than anything else. It is also good to read that you and MrEuro are on the same page and have a game plan going forward. Big hugs.

euro bloody hell you've been through the mill. Aargh at the clinic messing you around. It sounds like you've made the right decision for you, and I hope that your body will recover soon. I'm so sorry that you've had this crappy experience.

buzzy there's still time for that follie to grow! Are they going to give you a trigger shot? I am so hoping this is your month!

Welll I got the call from the croissant clinic - BFN I'm afraid. So now, just waiting for period to show up, but also worrying that maybe I didn't ovulate after all and maybe it won't show up. Also, I'm off on hols tomorrow arvo until Sunday (to Maine! to eat lobster and drink white wine with my sister and escape the DC 104 F heat! hooray!) so if it does arrive while I'm away, I won't be able to go in for the 'baseline scan'. Awesome. Oh well, no point in meeting trouble half way I suppose.

princess I am so hoping for you but I also am worrying about you mentalling, I know I would be like crazy. I hope you get some answers.

gin hope your headache has subsided.

sarlat how are you doing? Do you have an appointment with the massage lady yet?

Big waves to all, and reperks of the sadly drooping 10+ers collective tail feathers.

After two weeks of feeling crap and questioning whether we were doing the right thing, we have decided to stop. Phew. I feel so much happier. It's a decision that will hurt our pockets, but it is the right one for us. Some things are more important than money. I can say without a doubt that these two weeks have been the most awful of recent years. In fact, I think the last time I felt this low was the day we cremated my grandfather and my mum's results came back showing her cancer was back (yes, the same frickin' day - we had to leave the wake to go to the hospital 150miles away). I am so relieved to be leaving this period behind.

Thanks to all of you who have supported me so much through this horrible time. It really has helped enormously. And please don't let my experience put you off - it does seem unusual. There was no one else looking like a complete headcase in the waiting room today. My two close friends who have had IVF didn't have this problem. And I've been lurking on the June/July IVF thread on fertility friends and no one else seems to have felt as bad as I have on the drugs. According to this link, only 1-10 in 100 people taking it have depression type symptoms on the downregging drug I was using. I think I could have hacked the hot flushes, headaches and the other physical symptoms if I hadn't felt so damned miserable on it.

Gin thanks. I think we will look at Create. In fact, we already have, but after replying to my first email they then ignored my next query and follow up email prompting them to reply to it . I remember you saying that their admin was crap. I will just get on the phone if we do go down that road. Do you remember how quickly they saw you once you had contacted them? We are going to take a break for a while, but it would be good to know how much preplanning we would need to do if we do decide to go down the IVF road again.

Euro - congratulations. You have taken control back and made a decision that is right for you, your medical history and your personal circumstances. Your plan seems sensible and well thought out and I am so glad that you are getting some well earned relief. I think that you were always meant to start that IVF cycle - beacuse it has given you such clarity of thought in what you want to do. Things happen for a reason. And in that respect, that was a succesful bit of IVF!!

Artemis - sorry about the badly timed conference. Glad you are feeling lovely an calm.

Gin - when do you think you may be doing your next IVF? What are the clinic suggesting may improve your chances? If I remember correctly, it was mostly sperm issues due to a childhood problem? My problems with IVF are inplantation related. But we did have lots of success with the embryo stage despite us both being told the sperm and egg numbers weren't going to be that good. We got 9/10 fertilised eggs , of which 6 went to blastocyst stage. We were amazed at how well the embryos did. I honestly don't believe that this happened because we are super human - I belive it was in part due to the level of treatment DH had (mixture of things but mostly drinking tomato juice helped the most). For me personally, this number of blasts may still not give me a baby. But for other couples where dodgy tubes and inplantation isn't a problem, this number of blasts would practically guarentee a baby/ies. Therefore, I really feel the need to share our experinces to anyone else going through IVF especially where there are sperm issues. The treatment DH had was based on improving the sperm environment quality - not the sperm numbers / motility etc which is hard to do in many cases. This enables the indvidual sperm to perform better and cope better, last longer etc.

Hello to everyone else.

Thank you for all the sensible talk around trusting my consultant and going with the FET plan as it is for now. I don't like to leave any stone unturned but that can lead to obsessive behaviour. I am having a real 'when is the shit going to end day'. I'm not down in the dumps but wish I could jump off the blinking merry go round.

CD 1 today - so that explains some of my thinking process. Luckily, my cycle has gone straight back to 28-29 days which helps in preperation for FET. I hope to do FET in September. This gives me some time to relax and recover. I think I have nearly decided to do a natural cycle FET. Like Euro - just don't want to keep at it with the drugs. And I usually do know when I ovulate - I get 5 days of EWCM and ovulation happens on the 5th day along with mild ovulation pain. So it would be silly not to try natural FET ....right???? The blasto would be put back in 5 days after ovulation.

So it's back to charting cycles so I can be totally prepared and ready to plan the FET. Started temping again this morning. Got a new bendy thermometre - much more fun than plastic one. Funny haow things have gone full circle - Use to temp years ago in the planning stages and then post miscarriage stages. FET with natural cycles does feel a bit more like I'm doing it for myself too - as it will be my hormones. But there is always the worry that I should do a medicated cycle as that is more 'sensible / normal'. I'm going to take a leaf out of Euro's book and try and trust my own instincts a bit more.

Gosh I have been typing loads tonight - sorry for the waffle and please ignore if I talk rubbish. As someone said upthread, it's so cathartic.

Oops, x-posted with loads of people.

Critter I am sorry about your BFN. Go and enjoy Maine! My colleagues have been complaining about the DC heat. We have the opposite problem here. I was wearing a black mac to work today - in July! I have normally put that away by May.

pout I don't know what to suggest about your follies. I've heard that late ovulation can affect egg quality, but yours doesn't seem particularly late in general, perhaps it is just late for your if your eggs are ready earlier? If so, there could be a very easy fix for that. A HCG trigger shot should force out the eggs whenever the clinic decides they have reached an optimal size.

buzzy I was told that follies grow between 1 and 2mm per day and you ovulate when they are between 20 and 24mm, so you really shouldn't pop on day 12 with those follie sizes.

I'm sure I have still missed some people, but I will catch up again tomorrow.

Critter - sorry for the BFN. Whay makes you think you might not have ovulated?

Have a lovely lobster holiday. Onwards and upwards

euro Glad you've come to a decision, only you know what is right for you, well the last few cycles i've ovulated on cd 12 so my concern is that maybe i'm not ovulating, 2 months ago I didn't. Who knows when I'll ovulate this month

critter sorry about the BFN, yay to Maine, I love New England, I haven't used my trigger shot, the first month they said it was too late and last time I didn't ovulate so didn't use it,

euro I am so glad that you feel happier already. You really have had an awful time of it, but I hope this can be a turning point. You've been incredibly brave throughout this whole process. Good on you for making the right decision for you. The eurette is clearly designed to be procreated another, less misery-inducing way.

sarlat a bendy thermoter... ooh I want one . Seriously though - sounds like you're on a great track, and the fact that your cycles are regular surely suggests that natural FET is a great choice. I have everything crossed for a smooth summer getting ready for a fresh new start in September.

You asked why I am worried I didn't ovulate because - well, I'm probably being ridiculous, but I didn't get any EWCM, I wasn't tracking temps this month so don't know if I had a temp rise, and also, I haven't ovulated at all since coming off the pill, despite three clomid cycles (although those three weren't monitored and I didn't have a trigger shot) so I'm worried that my body has somehow forgotten how to ovulate. Fish slaps to be posted c/o CritterPants, Number One Mental Street, Washington DC, please.

The silver lining is that I'm going for Mexican food with my lovely sis tonight, and now I can have a couple of strawberry margaritas without guilt!

Euro just a quick post to say sorry you have felt so bad the last few weeks let's hope you go back to normal soon. I have felt awful on just the clomid and its hard when other people have no issues, you begin to wonder what's wrong with you. I totally understand the relief you feel making the choice no to continue

Sorry to just drop in and out so quickly. Up to me blinking eyeballs this week! But just wanted to send euro my best. So sorry you've had a shite time with the drugs. You had so many reservations about Ivf, which just goes to show how well we can know our bodies and how they are likely to react. I'm glad you've been able to make that decision to walk away, I really admire you for it. Think you must deserve a large glass of vino sometime soon!
And princess...as for you.....I'm trying to find a large kipper !! Spotting is total headfuckery at its absolute worst, especially so early. Lock away the hobnobs until at least Thursday ! Xxx
Sorry to not catch up with you all. I will in the next couple of days! Really need to catch up on this posting periods marlarkey!!

Just quickly:

Pleased you are feeling such relief, euro. And you know what is best for you. I hope that plan B with dr G will bring good things and enjoy the time off!!

Sorry about the BFN critter and I tend to assume with trigger shots you do ovulate, otherwise they would not trigger you... Enjoy the lobster, the margaritas, the wine and the trip!

So sorry about the funding situation carrie. And pout I am happy that you moved to faux surrey! Btw what are the next steps for you?

Yay for the perfect cycle sarlat. I had a 28-day one last time, it was quite exciting (mine are normally 25-27, but the egg waited for DH to come home and then failed to do more than that, I think).

Breath princess and no testing until 4 days before AF is due. I am pleased your body is doing exciting things, but worrying a bit about the sheer mentalness.

Someone asked, of course I'll report back on the lap (I'll be at home, rather than working my sorry ass off, so I'll be here!) It is probably, we won't guarantee anything, but probably next week.

Sorry about the fight nelly but yay for getting closer again. DH and I had one of our biggest fights ever last night. And now he's out. So I am waiting up for him, although we are definitely still on speaking terms. Planning a wedding and TTC seems a lot to stress about.

Waves and hugs to all!

Oh forgot to say I used an early test that can tell you 7 days before and as I am now 4 days before its not too early. Been having sickness last few days so wanted to check it was side effects of the clomid and nothing exciting lol

euro the admin at create is rubbish! I only ever got a response from them when I called and even then some of the receptionists are crap. I had some arguments with them -actually pretty unusual for me to argue with strangers and shows how bad they are! The clinical staff are great though, so don't let it put you off. We went on the open day in feb, saw the consultant in march and cycled in April. This time we have the consultation in aug and hoping to cycle in October. I'm a bit scared, not of the hormone side but of the surgery after my last experiences. I'd recommend going on an open day as you could ask questions and check out if it's for you and you get a 5 min session with the consultant. But do give yourself some time off to recover from what you have been through.

sarlet as mentioned above, we're going to try in October. They haven't suggested anything that could improve our chances, as I don't think there's anything they could do! It was just bad luck that the 2 embies didn't implant. They can't do anything about the sperm issues, apart from stimulate me more, as more eggs mean more may fertilise/not arrest. However I felt quite happy with my 12 eggs and wouldn't want any more - the whole reason I'm doing mild is to not have the high dose meds and not be at risk of ohss. What did your DH do to improve his sperms? Mr gin is going to give up booze and is on preconception vits. Tbh I think the problem is mechanical and that there's little we can do to change it. Even if count, quality etc tripled, the sperms would only be about as half as good as normal ones! And no way would he do anything vaguely woo...

critter sorry about bfn. Enjoy your break!

Waves to everyone else. Gotta get on!

euro you have learnt so much and been so strong in recognizing what is right for you. Thanks too for sharing it with us and in such an articulate manner. I, for one, learnt a lot.

sarlet me too on the sperm improval info. I'm not sure that Mr Purple's sperm need improval but they must even just because he is ancient. Tomato juice, you say, he loves it. Never buy it cause I think it's gross (yes even with vodka). I drink grapefruit juice to make the search for pant snot more fruitful (get it? Get it?). Doesn't work though perhaps I should omit the vodka

Poor Mr Purple, I sent him off on his work trip to Geneva few weeks back with the empty packet of his and hers Pregnacare conception vits (the only pack we have ever had, procured on recent trip to the UK from Boots) - to see if could get more or something like it. It seems the box was past around the phamancy with much sniggering and snorting 'L-Arginine, ha ha', 'Peruvian Maca Extract, snigger', 'Siberian Ginseng Extract, double snort'. He was told they had seen nothing like it in a nick- off-back-with-your-rubbish- sperm-to-your-barren-women kind of a way.

Many years ago on another work trip to the same place, he went to ask a doc for an SA (don't you just love how these trips are combined with 'while you are there sort this baybee shit out would you?'). I'm only adding this 'cause its a really old school TTC classic. The doctor refused an SA on the grounds that he "was fine". "Babies come when the time is right, buy her (the little wife) a nice house, with a garden that will put things right".

just on the subject of woo - when i was following a traditional chinese medicine (tcm) plan toward the end of last year, my 'pattern diagnosis' according to tcm was 'spleen qi deficiency', 'Liver qi stagnation', 'kidney yang deficiency', 'blood stasis' and 'damp heat'.

i've just looked all this up again after the recent greek diagnosis, and according to tcm the pattern diagnosis for chlamydiae and pelvic inflammatory disease is liver qi stagnation, blood stasis and damp heat, and the spleen is the organ responsible for the immune system.

DH thinks this stuff is as useful as horoscopes, and i may be reading too much into it but i think that's kind of interesting that tcm was pointing to the same areas as the at that point undiagnosed infections. In the main tcm book I've got she advocates natural solutions for just about everything related to ttc, but when it comes to these infections she says take the anti-b's!

i'd kind of got a bit disillusioned with all the tcm stuff after it didn't work, but i might have another go now with the acupuncture, herbs and meditations etc.

anyway, just my thoughts of the day.

Euro glad you reached a decision you feel happy and comfortable with. I think feeling that horrendous is just not going to be conducive for things to happen whatever the medical side of things is iykwim.

Wine, i've been a bit of a thread 'floater' recently as i keep changing what treatment i'm doing, but i've been lurking, and so glad you've been recovering well. i hope your recent symptoms is just your system 're-setting' itself and will hopefully settle down soon.

Princess i snorted at the peeing on hob nobs. hope the menkulling is not too bad and the next few days pass quickly.

Pout that is an interesting question about over-mature follies, i'd never thought of that before, i'll have to track down the other thread.

Muddy, i so know what you mean with you on the 'one year ttc, pah' comment!

Wine and Muddy, on the subject of weather, have you ever tried one of those 'light boxes' that gives you a uv fix? i love mine in the winter.

Critter, 'patient appreciation day' is absolutely hilarious. What is that - 'thank you so much for being ill, we really appreciate it' ??!

Carrie, at one point the ivf funding in my area was going to be cut, and i found some template letters on line to write to the pct to complain - (which I did and they reinstated the funding, don't know if the two were related or not). Might be worth a shot. PCT's review funding on a yearly basis. www.infertilitynetworkuk.com/FundingforFertility/?id=14752

sorry, am sure i've missed loads of people out - waves to everyone else

i'm off to GP to share my Athens adventure and ask for a prescription - looking forward to the look on his face!

Morning all,
Euro hope you are feeling better today.

Purple doctors...don't you love 'em.

Critter I hope you did ov. Wouldn't they have picked up on that if you hadn't?

Sarlat Morning Miss Marple! Well, to add some clues: we've continued to have sex over the past 3 months, it's just that we use the withdrawal method during the 'danger' ov zone. So I don't think it could be a reaction to his man jam. Plus I've never ever ever ever ever had that sort of spotting before (unless at the start of a miscarriage, spotting followed by full of blood hours later) or at the end of a period - so I don't think that there is an infection / allergic reaction going on. There's nothing really there today, except a lightish brown colouring to CM on internal inspection this morning. As you say, it could be my hormones realigning and it could be breakthrough bleeding, that just happens at the same time as implantation bleeding. Just my bits playing a little game with me! I am feeling much calmer today. My nutritionist has advised that I can continue with all but one of the supplements and I only have two of that course left anyway.

So I had my CD22 blood test today. Even though it's CD23. I'm not worried about this oversight as it opportunely turns out to be 7DPO. No one will ever look into it that closely anyway and if they do...pah...I'm a stupid dumb girl who can't count to 22. They took 4, FOUR, tubes this morning. She had to phone the blood bottle helpline and my hands started shaking when she said, "one gold for progesterone; three blue for the anticardiolipin AB". God I'm such a wimp. In fact I was so shaky that afterwards, she gave me a pink elephant sticker that says, "I was brave for the nurse" As you can tell I was delighted. Clearly I am still a 5 year old. And she also commented about how lovely my consultant is, how much he likes women, how bright he is...(I think she has a crush). All I could think was what a condescending, stuffy old fart he is who spoke over me and told me to 'chill out'. Anyway, I've not been tempted to eat anymore biscuits despite having the really good ones (First Response). I don't feel pregnant, I feel calm, not even a touch premenstrual - so something positive pregnancy or not is going on. My boobs aren't sore, I don't have that weird taste in my mouth and I'm not feeling nauseous. This clearly is being updiffed. I've been there two poss three times before and I know the signals well. I would really, really like to have my blood results back first in any case in the event that I need meds / treatment before starting again and I would also like my anniversary trip which involves non-TTC friendly spa treatments and champagne. It will just be so cruel to not let me have my little 'naughty' treat trip before getting back on the TTC horse. I'm feeling quite confused that the mentalling seems to have vanished over night. Bodies and minds are strange things!

Waves to you all. Back to work I go :)

Correction - this clearly isn't being updiffed Freudian slip if ever I saw one.